Logan (2017 Marvel Movie)

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Wow, color me surprised. I didn't even know this was being filmed. Maybe I should watch more E!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbug3zTm3Ws

The premise seems somewhat depressing, but I think that's to be expected with a Wolverine-centred story. The trailer gives me an Old Man Logan kind of vibe though it doesn't seem like they're adapting that. Just based on the trailer looks like some seriously messed up stuff is happening.

[Palanan]

Huh.

So, they're bringing in X-22, or X-23, or whoever she was. I only know the character from a couple of episodes of X:Men Evolution*, and I'm not even sure if she's cloned from Logan's DNA or just adamantiumized.

Also, I can't keep track of the various incarnations of Professor Xavier. Wasn't he subatomically disintegrated by Dark Phoenix in X3? Is he now officially back because Wolverine changed the timeline in Days of Future Past? Or is it all way beyond making sense anymore?

Not even sure if this is a postapocalyptic America, a post-mutant America, or what it's supposed to be.

Meh. Unlike the Avengers and their smoothly coordinated flock of movies, the X-Men movies have always been a spattered mishmash. We've seen, what, three different versions of Scott Summers now? Wolverine is the only constant, and that's just not enough for me to really care.





*Watched in Portuguese for the language practice.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yes, X-23 is a clone of Logan. Generally also repeatedly molested by the Eeeevil scientists who make her, because comics writers seem to feel we're so stupid we need that rubbed in our faces before we believe they're evil. Or they actually like writing that stuff. I'm not sure which I find more offensive.

I gave up on X-Men movies a while ago, so I won't be seeing this one. Unless the fan reviews convince me they managed to catch the Deadpool-lightning-in-a-bottle again.

[Dienekes]

Huh.

So, they're bringing in X-22, or X-23, or whoever she was. I only know the character from a couple of episodes of X:Men Evolution*, and I'm not even sure if she's cloned from Logan's DNA or just adamantiumized.

Also, I can't keep track of the various incarnations of Professor Xavier. Wasn't he subatomically disintegrated by Dark Phoenix in X3? Is he now officially back because Wolverine changed the timeline in Days of Future Past? Or is it all way beyond making sense anymore?

Not even sure if this is a postapocalyptic America, a post-mutant America, or what it's supposed to be.

Meh. Unlike the Avengers and their smoothly coordinated flock of movies, the X-Men movies have always been a spattered mishmash. We've seen, what, three different versions of Scott Summers now? Wolverine is the only constant, and that's just not enough for me to really care.





*Watched in Portuguese for the language practice.

Possibly the most accurate thing the X-Men movies have ever done, is making the timeline overly complex and nonsensical. I really can't think of anything more X-Men. Sure every long running comic book series has there problems of continuity (except maybe Dredd) but X-Men have always taken the cake.

In any case they're supposedly drawing inspiration from the Old Man Logan story which was in a post apocalyptic world that was also post mutant. It was a pretty fun little series. Bleak as hell, involving cannibalism, rape, and worse but interesting none the less.

As to the trailer I dunno I think I like it. It seems far more engaging than anything they put out for the last venture with Apocalypse.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The trailer piques my interest, but now that I think about it Wolverine's solo movies weren't all that great. The first one had Deadpool as some screwed up Frankenstein monster with stolen powers, and the second one was kinda average I guess.

One can only hope that this ends up as a swan song for Hugh Jackman's Wolverine.

Dang, I really need to watch Deadpool and Apocalypse.

[Dienekes]

The trailer piques my interest, but now that I think about it Wolverine's solo movies weren't all that great. The first one had Deadpool as some screwed up Frankenstein monster with stolen powers, and the second one was kinda average I guess.

One can only hope that this ends up as a swan song for Hugh Jackman's Wolverine.

Dang, I really need to watch Deadpool and Apocalypse.

Deadpool I'd recommend, it's silly fun. Apocalypse I'd give a pass. Pretty generic mutants vs threat stuff retreading the Magneto good/evil line we've seen done as good or better in 4 other movies. It's not bad, exactly, but in an industry awash with hero flicks it just does nothing to stand out.

[Kato]

Dang, I really need to watch Deadpool and Apocalypse.

I agree with Diekenes. Deadpool is great, as long as you know what you're getting into, Apocalypse is... eh... watchable? I guess that's the most sincere attribute.


The trailer got me really excited. Jackman and Sir Stewart reunited, nice music overlay, just seems we won't get a charismatic villain again but whatever. But I'm sure this will be Hugh's sendoff.

[Clertar]

I agree with Diekenes. Deadpool is great, as long as you know what you're getting into, Apocalypse is... eh... watchable? I guess that's the most sincere attribute.


The trailer got me really excited. Jackman and Sir Stewart reunited, nice music overlay, just seems we won't get a charismatic villain again but whatever. But I'm sure this will be Hugh's sendoff.

The reboot X-Men film series has always suffered from a fanfiction approach ("What if Mystique was Professor X's adopted sister, and was after all the protagonist of the mutant story?"). But this last movie is very close to being a self-parody, so preoccupied with filling in every meaningless backstory thread ("How did Xavier become bald? Not alopecia, surely... An alien machine!"), retreading what I guess they though were successful character arcs for the protagonist trio that just feels you're watching the same thing play out on a different background, a mutant-on-mutant war instead of a political assassination.

\end{rant}

[t209]

Wait, is that the one where Hulk and She-Hulk had kids (:smallyuk:)?
If it is, I guess they have to make so without Mysterio, Red Skull, and Hulk>

[tomandtish]

Wait, is that the one where Hulk and She-Hulk had kids (:smallyuk:)?
If it is, I guess they have to make so without Mysterio, Red Skull, and Hulk>

You're thinking of "Old Man Logan", which was a limited series. (Initially at least, don't know if they've done more with it).

And regarding the green duo mentioned above...

It's all but outright stated that She-Hulk was not a willing participant. So even more :smallyuk:.

[Dienekes]

Wait, is that the one where Hulk and She-Hulk had kids (:smallyuk:)?
If it is, I guess they have to make so without Mysterio, Red Skull, and Hulk>

Yep, that's the one. And the trailer is clearly drawing some inspiration from the comic, but definitely not being a direct adaptation. Which is a little sad, since the Red Skull scene is great.

[Kitten Champion]

The trailer got me really excited. Jackman and Sir Stewart reunited, nice music overlay, just seems we won't get a charismatic villain again but whatever. But I'm sure this will be Hugh's sendoff.

Yeah. I mean the X-Men movie universe is a confusing mess and I have no idea how this is supposed to fit into anything, but two strong actors doing a piece about these characters' twilight moments - characters who they've occupied for nearly twenty years now - is potentially really worth watching and not really done in this age of superhero films.

So, it might very well be a good movie so long as it distances itself from the franchise as a whole and just distills it down to a strong character piece which they can pull off given a chance.

[Benthesquid]

Damnit, I didn't want to be invested in this movie, but Johnny Cash and Patrick Stewart teamed up to sneak attack my heart. Guess I'm all in now. Hope it's good.

[t209]

You're thinking of "Old Man Logan", which was a limited series. (Initially at least, don't know if they've done more with it).

And regarding the green duo mentioned above...

It's all but outright stated that She-Hulk was not a willing participant. So even more :smallyuk:.
Oh, that's Mark Millar for the new comer.
I mean Wanted has good concept that movie should follow (idea that Supervillains ruled the world from behind) but it went overboard with violence and anti-hero.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, speaking as an inveterate and sad Wolverine fan who very much enjoyed the last couple of Wolverine movies and is quite happy to see Wolvie cameos everywhere...



That looks absolutely fracking dreadful.



With Marvel comics making a concerted effort to screw the X-Men over, what we really needed was a movie-adaption of the single worst, crappiest run in the entire of Woloverine's run, Old Man Logan. Because that's what this looks like. Bad enough the comics screwed Proper!Wolverine over for that tenth-rate AU knock-off, now the movies are too? (And after they'd "fixed" the future timeline all neat-like with Days of Future Past, too.)

*sigh*

Even the lure of X-23 - one of my other ranking favorites - doesn't do anything.

It appeals less than Guardians of the Galaxy did (and I did eventually get that on DVD).

Be skipping this one, I think.

[t209]

Well, speaking as an inveterate and sad Wolverine fan who very much enjoyed the last couple of Wolverine movies and is quite happy to see Wolvie cameos everywhere...



That looks absolutely fracking dreadful.



With Marvel comics making a concerted effort to screw the X-Men over, what we really needed was a movie-adaption of the single worst, crappiest run in the entire of Woloverine's run, Old Man Logan. Because that's what this looks like. Bad enough the comics screwed Proper!Wolverine over for that tenth-rate AU knock-off, now the movies are too? (And after they'd "fixed" the future timeline all neat-like with Days of Future Past, too.)

*sigh*

Even the lure of X-23 - one of my other ranking favorites - doesn't do anything.

It appeals less than Guardians of the Galaxy did (and I did eventually get that on DVD).

Be skipping this one, I think.
Well, Mark Millar's work tend to be good when adapted to film.
Then again, the writers decided to scratch every horrible aspects out of it (Wanted, Marvel Civil War, and Kick-Ass).

[Morph Bark]

Title should be "Logan (2017 Fox Movie)", really.


One can only hope that this ends up as a swan song for Hugh Jackman's Wolverine.

Hugh Jackman himself stated that after this he won't be playing Wolverine anymore. He's played the part for 17 years. That's the longest I can recall anyone playing a character.


With Marvel comics making a concerted effort to screw the X-Men over,

What are you talking about? Marvel debuted like six new comic lines for the X-Men just this year. (Not really all about the group, two are mostly about Deadpool, and one is Old Man Logan by different writers [Jeff Lemire].)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Persistent Internet Conspiracy Theory. Marvel is trying to destroy all comics properties held by companies other than Marvel Studios, despite the fact that not publishing them means the trademarks lapse, so anyone can use them for free.

What they really mean is that Marvel Comics isn't adding bits from the movies to the comics, which they don't need to since Fox is pretty imitative.

[Aotrs Commander]

What are you talking about? Marvel debuted like six new comic lines for the X-Men just this year. (Not really all about the group, two are mostly about Deadpool, and one is Old Man Logan by different writers [Jeff Lemire].)

You mean becides them being sterilised, plagued, forced to set up a sanctuary in limbo (all of which resulting from the Inhumans to tie in better top the fact that the MCU can't use mutants and is using Inhumans), being killed and replaced by crapper versions of themselves from alternate places (not even an isolated incident), this

http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Death-of-X-Marvel-Logo-Banner-Inhumans-X-Men.jpg

off the top of my head?

I do recall talk of them being basically kicked off into outer space as well, though at this point I am only following X-Men '92 (which is outside the regular continuity and for an alternate universe doing an amazing job of actually not sucking, not being grimmer with a liscence to kill characters off (and also Has Jubilee In It), and is also Marvel's very, very, very last chance before I give up entirely) so I don't know what happened with that.

Preportedly, it's a bit of a pet project for the head of comics bit of Marvel.



If they aren't actually doing that, they are certainly look like they're trying to encourage the image that they are so people will get annoyed about it and , I dunno, spite-buy the comics to see how bad it is? I dunno, shock-marketing seems to be the only way Marvel comics do anything these days, so I'd believe that too.

They've very CERTAINLY put this X-Men fan off the main universe completely at this point with the increasingly idioic way they've been handled in the past ten years or so.

[t209]

You mean becides them being sterilised, plagued, forced to set up a sanctuary in limbo (all of which resulting from the Inhumans to tie in better top the fact that the MCU can't use mutants and is using Inhumans), being killed and replaced by crapper versions of themselves from alternate places (not even an isolated incident), this

http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Death-of-X-Marvel-Logo-Banner-Inhumans-X-Men.jpg

off the top of my head?

I do recall talk of them being basically kicked off into outer space as well, though at this point I am only following X-Men '92 (which is outside the regular continuity and for an alternate universe doing an amazing job of actually not sucking, not being grimmer with a liscence to kill characters off (and also Has Jubilee In It), and is also Marvel's very, very, very last chance before I give up entirely) so I don't know what happened with that.

Preportedly, it's a bit of a pet project for the head of comics bit of Marvel.



If they aren't actually doing that, they are certainly look like they're trying to encourage the image that they are so people will get annoyed about it and , I dunno, spite-buy the comics to see how bad it is? I dunno, shock-marketing seems to be the only way Marvel comics do anything these days, so I'd believe that too.

They've very CERTAINLY put this X-Men fan off the main universe completely at this point with the increasingly idioic way they've been handled in the past ten years or so.
Well, they (Inhumans) are like Tau of Wh40k (caste systems, "slave" races, and being a new thing by companies) but i won't go on a rant about it and Tau are genuinely less evil (plus Sterilization is rumor but I think both of them may have used pheromone to make their victims into volunteers).
And there is also Resurrection, Blue and Gold, but Rumor has it that they are to be sent to other universe.

[Divayth Fyr]

Hugh Jackman himself stated that after this he won't be playing Wolverine anymore. He's played the part for 17 years. That's the longest I can recall anyone playing a character.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie%27s_Poirot

[Dienekes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie%27s_Poirot

That guy who played Q from James Bond did it for 30+ years. Longest one I know of. Though I'm sure there's someone on some long running soap opera that spawned sequels who has him beat.

[Divayth Fyr]

That guy who played Q from James Bone did it for 30+ years. Longest one I know of.
D'oh. How could I forget about him?!


Though I'm sure there's someone on some long running soap opera that spawned sequels who has him beat.
Quite a few of them actually. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-serving_soap_opera_actors)

[Clertar]

We also have the returning cast of Star Wars or Indiana Jones, but that's sort of picking it up after being discontinued.

[Thialfi]

Hugh Jackman himself stated that after this he won't be playing Wolverine anymore. He's played the part for 17 years. That's the longest I can recall anyone playing a character.


It is quite possible that Mr. Jackman is sincere in his assertion that he is done with the Wolverine character, but the direct translation of his quote from its original actorese is "my contract is up, so somebody better back a truckload of money up to my driveway if they want me to consider another movie."

[Friv]

You mean becides them being sterilised, plagued, forced to set up a sanctuary in limbo (all of which resulting from the Inhumans to tie in better top the fact that the MCU can't use mutants and is using Inhumans), being killed and replaced by crapper versions of themselves from alternate places (not even an isolated incident)

It's not like any of that is actually new, though. The X-Men storyline has been about cycles of "all the mutants are dead wait no they aren't" for something like twenty years now, and being replaced by alternate versions of themselves is just the latest version of "they're dead for real no wait they're fine" which has been the status quo for decades. And the X-Men get kicked halfway out of the Marvel universe every few years when there's a Shi'ar storyline, so even that doesn't seem too big to me.

Like, I can buy the argument that Marvel has moved up the prominence of the Inhumans, and has reduced the prominence of the X-Men and Fantastic Four for legal reasons (and it's not the first time the FF have disbanded, either, for that matter). But none of the current round of garbage seems that unusual.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It is quite possible that Mr. Jackman is sincere in his assertion that he is done with the Wolverine character, but the direct translation of his quote from its original actorese is "my contract is up, so somebody better back a truckload of money up to my driveway if they want me to consider another movie."

Actually, a good part of why he's retiring is that he's not getting any younger, and the movies are physically very demanding. By the sounds of it, he's pretty much done with action as a genre for these reasons.

It's also one of the main reasons we won't be seeing another Iron Man movie with RDJ. Dude's close to 60.

[Clertar]

It's also one of the main reasons we won't be seeing another Iron Man movie with RDJ. Dude's close to 60.

As close as 9 years away http://www.racocatala.cat/imatges/smileys/riure.gif

[Thialfi]

Actually, a good part of why he's retiring is that he's not getting any younger, and the movies are physically very demanding. By the sounds of it, he's pretty much done with action as a genre for these reasons.

It's also one of the main reasons we won't be seeing another Iron Man movie with RDJ. Dude's close to 60.


That would be nice. Some actually says "you know what? I have enough money. Time for me to take some time to enjoy it."

Then there is the Mummy reboot. They make a really cool choice for a gender bent mummy with Sofia Boutella. Then who do they get to kick off this franchise renewal as the male lead action star? Tom Cruise. Excuse me? Are you sure he's not being cast as the mummy's father?

[lailahussain889]

After watching its trailer it seems something happened with the Wolverine like back in 2013. Can't wait till March.:(

[anotherthumb]

İf they do right, this maybe can do spin in Cape genre. trailer ıs looking good anyway, but the story did take abuse because of marvel-fox shenannigans.

[t209]

İf they do right, this maybe can do spin in Cape genre. trailer ıs looking good anyway, but the story did take abuse because of marvel-fox shenannigans.
Well, I agree since Wolverine vs. Hulk would be great.
Just cut out the how Hulk have kids and everything will be fine.
Or every vile thing by Mark Millar.

[anotherthumb]

Well, I agree since Wolverine vs. Hulk would be great.
Just cut out the how Hulk have kids and everything will be fine.
Or every vile thing by Mark Millar.

couldn't agre more.

[J-H]

I haven't watched any X-men movies in about a decade. I thought they moved on to a whole new 'verse and set of actors with the Apocalypse movie?

With the beard, and in that outfit and setting, Hugh Jackman looks an awful lot like Dos Equis' new Most Interesting Man in the World.

[DuReign]

HOLY F***. That was gritty, raw, violent, unforgiving, and so completely heartfelt. Amazing what an R rating can allow for, and the performances of all the principles was... I'm kerflumphed. It barely registers to me as a superhero movie; it definitely felt like a good neo-noir Western tale of redemption, bolstered by totally flawed and sympathetic characters we have grown up with and portrayed by actors on the top of their game.

Since the X-Men comics exist and appear in the movie (Logan obviously is not a fan), I like to think that all the X-Men movies up until this point, even the good ones, simply exist AS movies in the world of Logan.

[GloatingSwine]

They ain't topping this one in a while. Not only a fantastic movie in its own right it was also a way to show the real berserker Wolverine that the movies couldn't otherwise get away with.

[t209]

And finally promoted that trying to deviate Mark Millar's original is good idea; just like Marvel Civil War, Wanted, and even Kick Ass.
Edit: my mistake, good one.

[GloatingSwine]

There's almost nothing of Millar's Old Man Logan in this movie. Mark Millar wishes he could write movies like this.

[RoninLoganX]

They ain't topping this one in a while. Not only a fantastic movie in its own right it was also a way to show the real berserker Wolverine that the movies couldn't otherwise get away with.

Agreed. Sadly, they waited until Hugh Jackman's final performance as Wolverine to give us what we've been wanting since the beginning. Imagine if they had been allowed to do all the Wolverine solo films as R-rated.

[DuReign]

Its not just the R-rating (R-rated cut of Batman v Superman was, while better, still way more steaming turds than good), its the risks Fox took.

Studios always view giving directors creative freedom to take risks as, well, risky - Fox actually let the Logan team make a film for Wolverine and X-men fans, and they knocked it out of the park. There isn't going to be a director's cut of Logan, because James Mangold said the theatrical cut basically is exactly what he wanted - he didn't have to make creative compromises because the executives kept their damn idiot fingers off of the project for the most part. I highly doubt a Marvel Studios project will be able to be as risk-embracing as Fox's Deadpool or Logan any time soon.

So at least Fox has that going for it... the way they've handled everything else for the most part is kinda ... well. :smallcool:

[RoninLoganX]

Its not just the R-rating (R-rated cut of Batman v Superman was, while better, still way more steaming turds than good), its the risks Fox took.

Studios always view giving directors creative freedom to take risks as, well, risky - Fox actually let the Logan team make a film for Wolverine and X-men fans, and they knocked it out of the park. There isn't going to be a director's cut of Logan, because James Mangold said the theatrical cut basically is exactly what he wanted - he didn't have to make creative compromises because the executives kept their damn idiot fingers off of the project for the most part. I highly doubt a Marvel Studios project will be able to be as risk-embracing as Fox's Deadpool or Logan any time soon.

So at least Fox has that going for it... the way they've handled everything else for the most part is kinda ... well. :smallcool:

True. An R-rating doesn't mean it's going to be good by default. I was just saying that I would have liked something similar to the style of Logan from the get-go.

We might still see a director's cut, what with Mangold wanting to do a B&W version of the film, which I'm all for.

[Traab]

I honestly wonder, will they recast wolverine? Or will they make a few more xmen movies first THEN bring in a new face as wolverine?

[RoninLoganX]

I honestly wonder, will they recast wolverine? Or will they make a few more xmen movies first THEN bring in a new face as wolverine?

I think they'll probably make a few movies without Wolverine, hopefully they'll even make a X-23 solo film, before reintroducing him with a new actor in the role.

[Kitten Champion]

I honestly wonder, will they recast wolverine? Or will they make a few more xmen movies first THEN bring in a new face as wolverine?

I really doubt it. Maybe, like, five-ten years from now we get a whole reboot-reboot of the X-Men - likely with Fox again or maybe some significant issues leads it back to Marvel Studio - and someone decides having Wolverine there is the only way they'll get the money back, that could certainly happen in this industry. However, Jackman's had 7 movies with his Wolverine being a significant character or the actual protagonist that pretty much covers the James Howlett life-cycle in a roller coaster-ride of differing quality, that's a fairly high and dense wall built into our cultural psyche's association with the character to simply expect us to overlook it.

In this scenario of a not-entirely-unlikely reboot, I would say it's more likely that they wouldn't even bother and just have Laura Kinney as the Wolverine.

[Traab]

I really doubt it. Maybe, like, five-ten years from now we get a whole reboot-reboot of the X-Men - likely with Fox again or maybe some significant issues leads it back to Marvel Studio - and someone decides having Wolverine there is the only way they'll get the money back, that could certainly happen in this industry. However, Jackman's had 7 movies with his Wolverine being a significant character or the actual protagonist that pretty much covers the James Howlett life-cycle in a roller coaster-ride of differing quality, that's a fairly high and dense wall built into our cultural psyche's association with the character to simply expect us to overlook it.

In this scenario of a not-entirely-unlikely reboot, I would say it's more likely that they wouldn't even bother and just have Laura Kinney as the Wolverine.

They dont even have to go reboot, there were many, MANY teams of xmen in various configurations. Just pick one of them where wolverine was an avenger or alpha flight or whatever, in other words, not in the picture.

[RoninLoganX]

Thing is, despite what has been said, I doubt Fox will allow Logan's timeline to be the official endcap of the X-Men franchise.

[Erys]

Thing is, despite what has been said, I doubt Fox will allow Logan's timeline to be the official endcap of the X-Men franchise.

Aren't they introducing a time traveler (Cable)?

The X-Men name might be retired for a while, but the franchise is probably going to be around for a while longer. I look forward to seeing X23 (and maybe Ritchor) in X-force someday in the not too distant future.

[Olinser]

Thing is, despite what has been said, I doubt Fox will allow Logan's timeline to be the official endcap of the X-Men franchise.

Yeah I agree, there's no way.

There's plenty of other options. Evan Peters as Quicksilver has been breakout popular, Michael Fassbender has been great as Magneto, and there's a huge amount of factions and storylines that they haven't touched yet that don't require Wolverine as a character.

I'm guessing they're probably going to do something with Genosha next.

[RoninLoganX]

Aren't they introducing a time traveler (Cable)?

The X-Men name might be retired for a while, but the franchise is probably going to be around for a while longer. I look forward to seeing X23 (and maybe Ritchor) in X-force someday in the not too distant future.

True. And I'm with you in hoping to see more of X-23 in the future.

What I meant though is that I don't think this is going to be the official end to the timeline, despite what they have said. For one thing, it would be far too dark an ending for the X-Men, and it renders the struggles in DoFP and everything that follows a moot point. Since nothing in the film explicitly states that this is set in the exact same timeline as the good future ending of DoFP though, I can easily see Fox declaring that the events of Logan take place in one of many possible futures for the X-men down the road, especially with them soon introducing Cable and his big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff into the mix.

[ben-zayb]

Boy, did that film delivered more than the trailers lead me to expect! Honestly, that ending would've worked perfectly had Fox decided to cancel the entire X franchise for some reason; I suppose it also worked great as a final send-off for the X-men "old guards", Jackman being the literal last one on screen for the original cast.

And kudos to Fox for apparently learning the right lesson from Deadpool (or maybe not, I'm really not sure when they started filming this). No, not the ultraviolence, sex, swearing, and everything allowed under R18--I'm talking about taking a risk by presenting something really out of left field to the superhero movie genre. To be honest, it didn't even feel like a superhero nor an action movie to me, despite all the gratuitous violence. I kinda agree that Fox went for a Western feel--it's not like they were subtle about it.

If I am to really pick some nits, first of all I'm just wondering how did Laura evade capture that one time when it seems they were already in trouble as Logan was just on his way to pick them up. Lastly, didn't they make it a point that Logan's adamantium chassis made him so bleeping heavy, but it seemed like him and Laura were carried rather easily.


EDIT: Oh, and I can't wait fpr the Honest Trailer for this. I'm guessing the title would be something like "The Mutantsporter"?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Honestly, what happens next probably depends on a: what kind of legs this movie has (the opening gives cause to hope) and b: what happens with Deadpool 2. If that does well, Fox may well conclude that since their most profitable superhero films (in ROI, not gross box) are R rated, the rest should be too. Hopefully, they also notice that less executive meddling improves things as well, but I'm not that delusional.

If they go R rated for the rest, we get two things. First, a different feel from what Marvel's doing. Second, non-apocalyptic reasons in movie for why people hate mutants (i.e., a noticeable body count).

[Thialfi]

That was a surprisingly well done movie. All the leads nailed their performances. Potty mouthed Patrick Stewart was wonderful as the ancient Xavier being betrayed by his own mind. Hugh Jackman combined surly and vulnerable well enough that I can forgive his bad American accent and Dafne Keen? Wow. The emotion that she could convey without saying a word is ridiculous for someone of her age. I haven't been this impressed by a young actor since Elle Fanning.

With the sneak preview, I'd love to see an X-Force movie with Laura and Deadpool interacting. Then, I don't see why she couldn't be the lead in a new Wolverine movie.

[The Glyphstone]

EDIT: Oh, and I can't wait fpr the Honest Trailer for this. I'm guessing the title would be something like "The Mutantsporter"?

My bet is on 'No Country For Old Mutants'.

[Durzan]

I'll be honest. I'm actually a bit bummed that its rated R. I'm a mormon, and because of this, I won't be seeing any R-rated movies, regardless of how good they may be.

I was perfectly fine with PG-13 Wolverine. Honestly, this film probably could've been PG-13 and still have the same impact. You don't need to show a lot of gore, nudity, etc. to make a good Wolverine film. In fact, selective censorship can be just as effective, if not more effective, if used properly.

[DuReign]

That does suck, Durzan, but I honestly think Logan would be a worse movie if it were limited to PG-13. Logan is violent, yes, but not particularly gore-y, and there's only a single brief snippet of offhand nudity meant for laughs (I actually had to be reminded it was there). Its rated R for subject matter, because this is some pretty somber stuff - there is no editing you can do to get around subject matter. Being limited to PG-13 simply would have resulted in a different movie, which is partly why Hugh Jackman took a pay-cut to ensure it stayed R.

[Dienekes]

I'll be honest. I'm actually a bit bummed that its rated R. I'm a mormon, and because of this, I won't be seeing any R-rated movies, regardless of how good they may be.

I was perfectly fine with PG-13 Wolverine. Honestly, this film probably could've been PG-13 and still have the same impact. You don't need to show a lot of gore, nudity, etc. to make a good Wolverine film. In fact, selective censorship can be just as effective, if not more effective, if used properly.

Cheers, and didn't know that restriction. And while I agree the brief hint of nudity could have been entirely cut with absolutely nothing of value lost. I have to disagree with the violence, the movies themes on how nasty the life of a hero and killer is and how damaging everything is was used very well along with the violence. I think if it was cut down and edited out the movie itself would have been lesser for it.

But if I know anything from watching daytime tv, I bet a more sanitary version will be out in a few years.

In other news, the best X-Men film I've seen. And honestly, I hope, if anything, I hope if they keep milking the franchise, they do one more of the young X-Men then if anything focus on these young future mutants. Leave the "core" alone for now. They had their time in the spotlight.

[Excession]

Cheers, and didn't know that restriction. And while I agree the brief hint of nudity could have been entirely cut with absolutely nothing of value lost. I have to disagree with the violence, the movies themes on how nasty the life of a hero and killer is and how damaging everything is was used very well along with the violence. I think if it was cut down and edited out the movie itself would have been lesser for it.

But if I know anything from watching daytime tv, I bet a more sanitary version will be out in a few years.

Sanitising Logan would be quite the challenge, and I also think the movie would suffer greatly for it. Also, tying your personal beliefs, of whatever form, to the notoriously weird rules of MPAA film rating system confuses me. Logan is a violent movie, yes. But nothing it does makes light of that violence. A big part of the theme is about dealing with being a "hero" that has killed a lot of people. Captain America, OTOH, also kills a lot of people, just without blood (which would earn an R), or as much guilt.

For comparison, New Zealand gave Logan an R16 rating (avoiding the higher R18), while Australia went with their "MA15+" which allows people below 15 to see it only when accompanied by a parent or guardian. The USA system lacks these more subtle degrees of rating.


In other news, the best X-Men film I've seen. And honestly, I hope, if anything, I hope if they keep milking the franchise, they do one more of the young X-Men then if anything focus on these young future mutants. Leave the "core" alone for now. They had their time in the spotlight.
I think there's some sense in that. The core movies, with their big special effects and large casts, are expensive. Deadpool and Logan were cheaper, profitable, and presumably still count as using the IP, so it doesn't revert to Marvel/Disney. Now Fox just needs to work out how to do the same for the Fantastic Four. How about a sitcom where all the action happens off screen? :smallcool:

[digiman619]

Well, I saw it this afternoon. I hated it.

I mean, this story didn't need to be R. Sure, you'd have had to clean up the language and have less gore, but there was nothing about this story that couldn't have been told in PG-13. And it's not because Wolverine is a violent character and you now haw the chance to really show it; it's because Deadpool did it and was successful.

Deadpool needed to be R. You could not have told that story as PG-13. because without the little things like the "sex throughout the year" montage, you don't get the connection between Wade and Vanessa. This film, on the other hand, was R because they could be. I had a countdown in my head on how long it's be until someone said f***, and it was less than two minutes. It was dark for the sake of being dark and gory for the sake of being gory. As though being gritty and dramatic automatically made your story compelling. It's like The Dark Age of Comics all over again.

It was well made for what it was, and the action was good, but it just left me feeling drained. Bleh.

[Erys]

Best film to date featuring an Xman, imho.

From Logan using claws (which should hack limbs and shouldn't be pretty to see), the emotional grit that is accentuated with a well inflected F-bomb, and deeper adult themes like euthanizing children- they did it right making it R.

I can't imagine a pg-13 version of this being even remotely worth while.

Spoiler edit.

[Kato]

Just saw it, too.
In short: it was good, as in "I had high expectations from the trailer and it was better" good. It was not only strong as an X-men movie but in general for what it aimed for. (not quite as good as DP but I'm a sucker for Wade) sure, it had flaws but nothing I can't overlook.

I will have to disagree with the people insisting on the R rating. I didn't mind it and it might have slightly enhanced the movie but I almost always feel you can present violence without being that gore-y. I don't mind it, it didn't feel cheap, but it would have been fine without it, too. In my opinion, anyway.

Also... It's not that present here but I hate the "jackman will always be the only Wolverine " attitude. As with every other character. I love this Wolverine but I'm absolutely willing to give the next one a fair chance.

[Lacuna Caster]

Did anybody else think that X-23 appears to be at least as formidable as Logan in this movie? Like, fight-choreography-wise? He tends to be a straightforward slugger when you get down to it, but she was dancing around and ducking behind cover and doing gymnastic foot-shivving moves and rapid punches and generally looking like she was both properly trained for this stuff and instinctively vicious. Like, uh... some kind of atavistic muskelid predator, I suppose.

It's a fine movie with a rather bittersweet ending, even if it's a bit of a downer for the original crew.
Charles has a psychic seizure that wipes out half his adopted children? That's pretty dark.

[DuReign]

Yup, Laura was probably more threatening than Logan. Smaller, harder to hit, faster, more agile, just as feral and probably more willful. Yeah, she's got less mass and probably less strength right now, but given she has adamantium claws, she doesn't need that much. Not to mention Logan has seen better days.

One of my favorite beats from the movie was this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3OxVFvTeg&#t=53s), when Laura comes out, slowly starts walking towards the backing up goons, and you can see Donald Pierce going "No... no!" and starting to panic.

Also,

Xavier was musing that perhaps the reason why Laura has foot claws is because she's a female version of Logan's genetic material, and the females of <something> use their hind-legs defensively. I missed what animal he was referencing, anyone remember this?

And yes, Xavier hinted at being the reason the X-Men are gone, with Rice and his project to put mutant gene inhibitors in artificial sweeteners world-wide taking care of yet to be born mutants and Caliban being used to hunt down existing ones. Pretty dark. Also, so glad they didn't do what they were originally planning, which was opening the movie with a flashback to Wolverine walking in on the Westchester incident. It becomes so much more heart-wrenching for Xavier, in his one final night of normalcy and peace, to admit that he thinks he remembers the horrible thing he might have done. It was hinted at before, but he confirms it right at the height of an amazingly emotional Sir Patrick moment. Here's a case where telling is much better than showing.

[Excession]

I will have to disagree with the people insisting on the R rating. I didn't mind it and it might have slightly enhanced the movie but I almost always feel you can present violence without being that gore-y. I don't mind it, it didn't feel cheap, but it would have been fine without it, too. In my opinion, anyway.
I guess what I find confusing about this is why is gore bad, but violence itself fine. Even apart from the appalling treatment of X23, the movie shows a few dozen people getting brutally killed, how does having them fall over bloodlessly make it better for kids?

I'll end that rant before I go too far off topic.


Did anybody else think that X-23 appears to be at least as formidable as Logan in this movie? Like, fight-choreography-wise? He tends to be a straightforward slugger when you get down to it, but she was dancing around and ducking behind cover and doing gymnastic foot-shivving moves and rapid punches and generally looking like she was both properly trained for this stuff and instinctively vicious. Like, uh... some kind of atavistic muskelid predator, I suppose.
I got the impression that Logan had gotten slow as he aged. Everything he does hurts, and the pain doesn't go away like it used to. Watching him, at the start of the film, pull out that one claw to full extension... ouch, Hugh Jackman really made me feel that one. X-23 provided the contrast to that: fast, agile, strong, and she doesn't care about the pain.




Xavier was musing that perhaps the reason why Laura has foot claws is because she's a female version of Logan's genetic material, and the females of <something> use their hind-legs defensively. I missed what animal he was referencing, anyone remember this?
Lions. Whether this was even accurate, I dunno. Xavier might just have been a crazy old man :(

[Kato]

I guess what I find confusing about this is why is gore bad, but violence itself fine. Even apart from the appalling treatment of X23, the movie shows a few dozen people getting brutally killed, how does having them fall over bloodlessly make it better for kids?


Disclaimer : I'm not American and I might be fuzzy on what qualifies as an R rating.
That said, my argument is not about what is better for children. It is about (how much) the movie is improved by showing a person with half a head. (Also, some grown up people don't like or can't stand this kind of images. )
Having people fall over (more or less) bloodless certainly is less realistic but realism in movies is always an issue anyway. A dead person is a dead person, they don't need to be cut in half to prove that. And while some minor R rated images from the X program might have enhanced the impact the story itself was gruesome enough and if anything more so than the blood imagery.

[Rynjin]

For comparison, New Zealand gave Logan an R16 rating (avoiding the higher R18), while Australia went with their "MA15+" which allows people below 15 to see it only when accompanied by a parent or guardian. The USA system lacks these more subtle degrees of rating.

That's because the US doesn't need them in the same way. Unlike Australia/New Zealand the ratings aren't really enforced by law. You can take your 10 year old to see an R rated movie if you want (the theater just won't let them in unaccompanied). There were a few traumatized kids leaving the theater at the end when I went.

Ratings are guidelines, left to the discretion of the individual. "PG-13" jst means "this is the vague age we think is appropriate for viewing this.

The only exceptions are NC-17 films (nobody under 18, no way) and X rated films (actual porn).


Disclaimer : I'm not American and I might be fuzzy on what qualifies as an R rating.
That said, my argument is not about what is better for children. It is about (how much) the movie is improved by showing a person with half a head. (Also, some grown up people don't like or can't stand this kind of images. )
Having people fall over (more or less) bloodless certainly is less realistic but realism in movies is always an issue anyway. A dead person is a dead person, they don't need to be cut in half to prove that. And while some minor R rated images from the X program might have enhanced the impact the story itself was gruesome enough and if anything more so than the blood imagery.

Ratings can also be bumped by stuff like seeing the protagonist smoke and drink, for example. A lot of stuff goes into it.

But even just leaving in the profanity and violence, it goes a long way toward selling Logan as a beaten down man, and puts you closer to the grim reality that his life is a never-ending torrent of blood, ****, and tears. You cut away from it, hide it all from the audience, and it doesn't feel as "real".

[Lacuna Caster]

And yes, Xavier hinted at being the reason the X-Men are gone, with Rice and his project to put mutant gene inhibitors in artificial sweeteners world-wide taking care of yet to be born mutants and Caliban being used to hunt down existing ones. Pretty dark. Also, so glad they didn't do what they were originally planning, which was opening the movie with a flashback to Wolverine walking in on the Westchester incident. It becomes so much more heart-wrenching for Xavier, in his one final night of normalcy and peace, to admit that he thinks he remembers the horrible thing he might have done. It was hinted at before, but he confirms it right at the height of an amazingly emotional Sir Patrick moment. Here's a case where telling is much better than showing.

I guess what I find confusing about this is why is gore bad, but violence itself fine. Even apart from the appalling treatment of X23, the movie shows a few dozen people getting brutally killed, how does having them fall over bloodlessly make it better for kids?
Yeah, that's a particularly strange rating standard. Somehow the visual presence of nipples or body fluids is more significant than concrete kill counts.

I got the impression that Logan had gotten slow as he aged. Everything he does hurts, and the pain doesn't go away like it used to. Watching him, at the start of the film, pull out that one claw to full extension... ouch, Hugh Jackman really made me feel that one. X-23 provided the contrast to that: fast, agile, strong, and she doesn't care about the pain.
I have to say I was never struck by Logan being particularly nimble, even in the earlier films (Mystique runs rings around him in X1, for example, and only goes down because he can smell her in disguise.)

I'll say the 'road trip' scenes where Charles, Logan and Laura are play-acting as family are pretty charming as well.
Something that actually hit me later: If adamantium is genuinely unbreakable, wouldn't X-23's bones be sealed, making further growth impossible? Or is it ductile enough to 'stretch' over time? And wouldn't she be poisoned by the metal more rapidly than her forebear? This is a dark movie, kids.

[Zalabim]

I believe from the comics that she only has the claws. The rest of her bones are unaltered. That seems to be what's shown in the movie.

This stuff has been in trailers, is it worth spoilering? The kid has claws.

[ben-zayb]

I believe from the comics that she only has the claws. The rest of her bones are unaltered. That seems to be what's shown in the movie.

This stuff has been in trailers, is it worth spoilering? The kid has claws.

I highly doubt it's just the claws, as the nurse's video shows Laura's limbs (legs, arms) being operated on. Unless the foot blades retracts all the way to her shins, of course.

[Quild]

I saw the movie d1 and I appreciated that they were willing to go brutal, gore and dark. It sometimes looked too much and since we're not used to that, looked parodic somehow, but it was nice. I hope they'll do that again.

Laura, Logan and Xavier are really good characters. Caliban was a little bit disappointing. Pierce, Rice and X-24 aren't good at all.

And unfortunately, the story itself isn't that great.

Some things that bugged me:
Logan gets money by being a taxi service? What?
Gabriela went through many trouble to find Logan and then can't manage to get a few words with him. I don't know, a simple "she's your daughter" or "she's a mutant" could have get Logan's attention...
Every other child manages to reach the coordinates of the meeting point without having any adult with them. But Gabriela/Laura need Wolverine even if as he says himself "anyone could do the job". Maybe they need a father for Laura, but they don't need Logan's help.
For some reasons, Pierce is not here when the scene at the casino happens.
The moment with the nice family really reminds the scenes with the old couple in Origins. It was due to happen, really.
Caliban's betrayal. Seriously, the man is more clever than that.
X-24.
Laura starts speaking... Spanish and then English. As Logan asked, why didn't she say anything for 3000 miles? The other kids all speak English even among them.
Making fictive coordinates a real thing isn't bad. But it's a big risk of being discovered.
I thought the soldiers wanted to eliminate the young mutants, not capture them. They didn't even try to get Xavier's DNA (they had Caliban in their team for years but didn't raise another tracker guy?). Why are they trying to capture them? And these young mutants raised as weapons flee rather than using their powers?

[Thialfi]

Disclaimer : I'm not American and I might be fuzzy on what qualifies as an R rating.
That said, my argument is not about what is better for children. It is about (how much) the movie is improved by showing a person with half a head. (Also, some grown up people don't like or can't stand this kind of images. )
Having people fall over (more or less) bloodless certainly is less realistic but realism in movies is always an issue anyway. A dead person is a dead person, they don't need to be cut in half to prove that. And while some minor R rated images from the X program might have enhanced the impact the story itself was gruesome enough and if anything more so than the blood imagery.


I don't know. The scene from the commercial posted above where Laura comes out of the building and the bad guy starts saying "no, no, no" was made far more powerful in the movie when;

She casually tosses the head of the 250 pound muscle dude goon on the ground in front of them before popping her claws.

Also I'm not sure about movie Laura, but comic book Laura does only have adamantium claws and not an entire skeleton. That being said;

She was shown on an operating table and it looks to me like there was blood all the way up her legs, implying that they did infuse her skeleton with the metal.

[Starbuck_II]

I'll be honest. I'm actually a bit bummed that its rated R. I'm a mormon, and because of this, I won't be seeing any R-rated movies, regardless of how good they may be.

I was perfectly fine with PG-13 Wolverine. Honestly, this film probably could've been PG-13 and still have the same impact. You don't need to show a lot of gore, nudity, etc. to make a good Wolverine film. In fact, selective censorship can be just as effective, if not more effective, if used properly.

The language was mostly PG-13, till the car broke down (then he swore like a storm). Remember it is the number of swears not the useage that make an R movie.
That is why G's can get away with 1 or 2 F bombs. ("My brother was turned into a pig" for example had 2 F bombs but was G, good movie involving a witch turning a boy into a pig)

I'd count the Gore as PG-13 personally. Nothing made me think "must be R", sure there was nudity scene with "guests" but it was a quick flash.

All, in all, I would say we could have a PG-13 just reduce swearing, remove one flash scene, and I think we could call it PG-13: keep the other things.

[Kato]

I don't know. The scene from the commercial posted above where Laura comes out of the building and the bad guy starts saying "no, no, no" was made far more powerful in the movie when;

She casually tosses the head of the 250 pound muscle dude goon on the ground in front of them before popping her claws.

Also I'm not sure about movie Laura, but comic book Laura does only have adamantium claws and not an entire skeleton. That being said;

She was shown on an operating table and it looks to me like there was blood all the way up her legs, implying that they did infuse her skeleton with the metal.
Yes, it was more impactful, but the screeming and maybe a bit blood or so would have worked to bring the general idea across.
Again, I'm not saying the R rating doesn't do something to make it a bit better, but even without it would still have been good. Its impact isn't that large.

Also: While we don't have definite proof, I'd also say movie Laura is more enhanced than her comic version.


I'd count the Gore as PG-13 personally. Nothing made me think "must be R", sure there was nudity scene with "guests" but it was a quick flash.

Really? I mean, I've seen worse but... (again, not sure on the actual ranking criteria) if this is PG-13 gore, what's R? Open heart surgery?

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's good to remember that the 'rating system' is both a legacy of the 50s and based almost entirely on subjective interpretation. The base rules are somewhat inane and logical with a certain bit of knowledge (much of the violence rules were written around war movies, which you want kids to see for proper indoctrination but you don't want any awkward questions, for instance). So ask yourself what someone from the Eisenhower Administration would think of something, and you know what the rating is.

The whole thing needs to be ripped down and rebuilt, but we likely need to destroy the MPAA and RIAA for restraint of trade first.


Something that actually hit me later: If adamantium is genuinely unbreakable, wouldn't X-23's bones be sealed, making further growth impossible? Or is it ductile enough to 'stretch' over time? And wouldn't she be poisoned by the metal more rapidly than her forebear? This is a dark movie, kids.

It's worse than that. The adamantium sheathes the bones, so Logan can't access his bone marrow. Which means no new blood to replace what he's losing. Well, the spleen will provide a little, but not enough for what he's losing. There was a What If style comic many years ago where someone re-wrote the bones to Logan being able to metalize them at will (and by reflex), much like Colossus did with his skin. Obviated a lot of medical problems.

[Kato]

It's worse than that. The adamantium sheathes the bones, so Logan can't access his bone marrow. Which means no new blood to replace what he's losing. Well, the spleen will provide a little, but not enough for what he's losing. There was a What If style comic many years ago where someone re-wrote the bones to Logan being able to metalize them at will (and by reflex), much like Colossus did with his skin. Obviated a lot of medical problems.

Wait.. So he can supposedly regrow from a single cell (according to some writers) or at least regrow limbs but he can't make some blood because he lacks bone marrow? That's like someone being able to recite the phone book but forgetting his own birth day. (mind you, I do the latter but I don't claim to be able to do the first)

[Chen]

Wait.. So he can supposedly regrow from a single cell (according to some writers) or at least regrow limbs but he can't make some blood because he lacks bone marrow? That's like someone being able to recite the phone book but forgetting his own birth day. (mind you, I do the latter but I don't claim to be able to do the first)

Well in a real world he wouldn't be able to produce new blood. Magic regeneration though clearly allows blood to be created along with anything else for Wolverine.

[Thialfi]

Wait.. So he can supposedly regrow from a single cell (according to some writers) or at least regrow limbs but he can't make some blood because he lacks bone marrow? That's like someone being able to recite the phone book but forgetting his own birth day. (mind you, I do the latter but I don't claim to be able to do the first)

I think the consistent comic book lore on the family of Wolverine is that the adamantium skeleton inhibits his regenerative powers. Deadpool and Laura are capable of regrowing lost limbs. Wolverine can't (he lost a hand in a fight with Cyclops in the Age of Apocalypse). Of course, an unbreakable skeleton would normally reduce the need for that sort of thing. I don't know much about his son, Daken.

[DuReign]

I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the comics, so learning that Laura doesn't have an adamantium skeleton (just claws) in the comics is new to me. I'm fine with running with that in Logan too, since...

... the operation footage we see of Laura does not seem particularly invasive other than her limbs. The process Logan underwent involved that submersion tank and molten adamantium.


Especially since there are some grim implications for Laura if she DID have a full skeleton at this age. Yikes.

Also regarding the rating, yes, the MPAA rating system is wildly inconsistent and basically boils down to a group of people deciding, based on American values, what the rating should be. Given that Americans don't blink an eye to violence and gore, toning down those aspects in Logan probably won't even get the rating changed.


What happened with that family would definitely have to go, most of the shots of Logan's horrific wounds, that stuck claw scene (why doesn't Logan have pliers??? jeeez), that harpoon in Laura thing, ALL of the cursing - and the movie dies a little in my eyes if cranky dementia ridden Xavier can't say the F-word.


Could it be done, while altering stuff so that the main elements of Logan are still in place? Sure, probably. I'm glad they didn't, and chose not to, because if there are rated R comic book heroes that deserve not to be contained, Logan is definitely one of them.

[Rynjin]

And unfortunately, the story itself isn't that great.

Some things that bugged me:
Logan gets money by being a taxi service? What?
Gabriela went through many trouble to find Logan and then can't manage to get a few words with him. I don't know, a simple "she's your daughter" or "she's a mutant" could have get Logan's attention...
Every other child manages to reach the coordinates of the meeting point without having any adult with them. But Gabriela/Laura need Wolverine even if as he says himself "anyone could do the job". Maybe they need a father for Laura, but they don't need Logan's help.
For some reasons, Pierce is not here when the scene at the casino happens.
The moment with the nice family really reminds the scenes with the old couple in Origins. It was due to happen, really.
Caliban's betrayal. Seriously, the man is more clever than that.
X-24.
Laura starts speaking... Spanish and then English. As Logan asked, why didn't she say anything for 3000 miles? The other kids all speak English even among them.
Making fictive coordinates a real thing isn't bad. But it's a big risk of being discovered.
I thought the soldiers wanted to eliminate the young mutants, not capture them. They didn't even try to get Xavier's DNA (they had Caliban in their team for years but didn't raise another tracker guy?). Why are they trying to capture them? And these young mutants raised as weapons flee rather than using their powers?

A lot of this stuff IS addressed, but it's not lingered on.



Logan gets money being a limo driver. Good way to get some quick cash.

Pierce IS there at the casino. He's just running overwatch from the van, while his goons storm the hotel room.

Laura just didn't want to talk. Either as a result of trauma (it affects all people differently) or just to piss off Logan.

No, they said repeatedly they wanted to capture them. And yes, they DID get Xavier's DNA. They don't zoom in on his face or anything but they show a dirt covered corpse on a gurney and say "Get a sample from him. He has an immensely powerful brain."

Remember the young mutants don't necessarily WANT to be weapons. They were rebellious from the start. Also, all of them are still vulnerable to gunshots. Fleeing is the better choice for most of them since a lot of their powers are either very close range (ice breath girl) or take a while to activate (storm of pine needles girl).

[DuReign]

That actually reminds me of my one little nitpick - the kids accents. It makes sense Laura speaks Spanish - she was born and raised in a facility in Mexico, with predominantly Mexican caretakers. Besides, the actress is British-Spanish (so not quite a Mexican accent, but whatever), asking Dafne Keen to ALSO rock another accent in addition to all the stuff she nailed is, c'mon.

BUT the other kids? They have accents all over the place. If they were born and raised (as we were told) in that same Mexican facility, raised by the same Mexican caretakers (who are actually probably the only truly selfless, heroic people in the entire movie)... why the different accents? Again, its a nitpick, and easily explained away with something like - they were born and raised into the same program, maybe, but only recently put together into the same Mexican facility where Laura was born to facilitate the, ahem, "housekeeping."

[Yana]

A lot of this stuff IS addressed, but it's not lingered on.

they DID get Xavier's DNA. They don't zoom in on his face or anything but they show a dirt covered corpse on a gurney and say "Get a sample from him. He has an immensely powerful brain."

Are you certain?

I thought that was Callaban's charred corpse that they were referring to?

[Rynjin]

Are you certain?

I thought that was Callaban's charred corpse that they were referring to?

Not CERTAIN, though the corpse looked awfully intact for being so close to a grenade going off and the "powerful brain" comment doesn't make as much sense. I remember being really sad because Xavier doesn't even get to stay in his nice grave that Logan dug for him.

[comicshorse]

Not CERTAIN, though the corpse looked awfully intact for being so close to a grenade going off and the "powerful brain" comment doesn't make as much sense. I remember being really sad because Xavier doesn't even get to stay in his nice grave that Logan dug for him.


Yeah I thought it was Caliban too. Rice comments 'he was a tracker and had a high I.Q.'
That said I can absolutely see why they wouldn't want Xavier's DNA as making copies of a telepath as powerful as Xavier may be considered too dangerous even for a mad scientist like Rice

[DuReign]

Pretty sure the charred corpse was Caliban's - POOR CALIBAN - and Rice said "powerful tracker, high IQ" or something to that effect. Xavier was buried ("at least its by water" omg here come the tears again man), I don't think they ever got hands on him long enough to get a DNA sample on screen.

[Frozen_Feet]

A great movie about the most adorable serial killer in existence.

Also the best movie I've seen where a crippled, demented elder is murdered in their bed. :smallamused:

As far as the violence goes, I think the general brutality of it was suitable, but the amount was iffy. There's a huge number of goons in this movie who exist only to be chopped up. If they'd halved the amount, I feel it would've increased the impact.

For example: There's the part where the goons go in to fetch Laura from the shack. That part only really needed the big guy whose head Laura rips off. Then there's the big melee following where Laura and Logan butcher maybe dozen or so people. They could've halved the number, slowed the action down a bit to make it less hectic, and pay more attention to the pain and injuries of the soldiers. That'd have actually made the scene worse. They could've also allowed more of the soldiers to survive and then show how they're dealing with having been mutilated or cripples by our protagonists.

[DuReign]

Haha, Frozen Feet, so far you are the only one suggesting changes that might actually increase the rating from R to NC-17 :smallbiggrin:. Showing visceral pain and suffering as a result of gory violence is one of those NC-17 things... the goriest, most disturbingly violent movie I've ever seen is STILL the Passion of the Christ.

[gotourneed]

Even so, I still like Logan in the first episodes, and later on, there is a languid feeling, the plot is not as detailed as before - still in the direction of the first weak, strong and then counterattacking :(

[Dr.Samurai]

It was Caliban's corpse. He says he's a strong tracker and has a normal than higher IQ. And you can visibly see that it is Caliban on the gurney (I just got back from watching it at the theater).

Regarding the rating/violence... we have like fifteen movies where Wolverine repeatedly slices people with no blood. This may be okay for some, but it isn't for others. Like me :smalltongue:. I'm glad we finally get to see Wolverine cut loose (so to speak). Could it have been done differently as Frozen Feet suggests? Yeah, I think so. But we don't need another PG-13 Wolverine. Consider:

We've already seen Wolverine with a muted healing factor.
We've already seen Wolverine running through the woods killing armed soldiers.
We've already seen Wolverine chumming it up with a couple at their home before they're completely annihilated.
We've already seen Wolverine struggling to reach a powerful telepath that's out of control.
We've already seen Wolverine fighting another mutant with a healing factor and adamantine skeleton.
We've already seen Wolverine rescuing children from evil scientists that want to experiment on them.
We've already seen Xavier being medicated to suppress his powers.

There's probably more but you get the gist. A lot of stuff is recycled. Let us at least have some blood and gore, since there is literally no way for there not to be any if he is actually using his claws to kill people.

[Frozen_Feet]

Oh yeah, another thing:

I felt the swearing was really lackluster. There's lots of it, but it's almost completely two words repeated over and over. Hilariously, the Finnish subtitles switched the ****-****s for Hell-Satans, which actually felt more fitting of the characters, but served to underline how repetitive it was.

They ought to have hired my brother as expert counsel on how to swear properly. Especially for the car scene.

[Kyberwulf]

You know, I walked out of the theater feeling meh. I didn't know why until I read your post Dr. Samurai. Yeah, everything in Logan, we have seen before. Thanks for the eye opening. I still liked it though.

One thing that I hope get's addressed with any new Wolverine. I don't know why it bothers me. They don't make it so Wolverine has all of his powers. I mean the heightened senses. You know, his hearing, smelling, I assume sight? I was never sure on that one. Still, it's always bugged me about that. You were never suppose to get the drop on him because of those abilities.

I also felt like they shouldn't have put the two plots together. The Professor one, and the x-23 one. I feel like they had two different movies going on here. Or if they wanted to do it like this, they should have went with a Kill Bill kind of Chapter thing going on.

[Dr.Samurai]

You know, I walked out of the theater feeling meh. I didn't know why until I read your post Dr. Samurai. Yeah, everything in Logan, we have seen before. Thanks for the eye opening. I still liked it though.
I liked it as well, which is surprising because I just all around don't care for Fox's X-Men franchise in general and definitely didn't care for Origins: Wolverine or The Wolverine. But despite seeing a lot of stuff being rehashed, this movie was enjoyable.

One thing that I hope get's addressed with any new Wolverine. I don't know why it bothers me. They don't make it so Wolverine has all of his powers. I mean the heightened senses. You know, his hearing, smelling, I assume sight? I was never sure on that one. Still, it's always bugged me about that. You were never suppose to get the drop on him because of those abilities.
You see this in the very first episode of the 90s cartoon, Night of the Sentinels I think it's called. The team is about to open a door and Wolverine stops them. He can smell the gun oil on the guns the guards are using on the other side of the door where an ambush has been set up. Then, IIRC, after they open the door, he can smell the laser trip wires criss-crossing the corridor. Something about ozone.

We do see it a bit in the movies. In X2, he hears the soldiers infiltrating the mansion, allowing him to outmaneuver the one heading for the kitchen. And does he sniff out Mystique at one point or another? Can't remember.

[Kato]

One thing that I hope get's addressed with any new Wolverine. I don't know why it bothers me. They don't make it so Wolverine has all of his powers. I mean the heightened senses. You know, his hearing, smelling, I assume sight? I was never sure on that one. Still, it's always bugged me about that. You were never suppose to get the drop on him because of those abilities.

I also felt like they shouldn't have put the two plots together. The Professor one, and the x-23 one. I feel like they had two different movies going on here. Or if they wanted to do it like this, they should have went with a Kill Bill kind of Chapter thing going on.

He might have some heightened senses but he's not some blood hound. Samurai listed some interesting things he did and I guess they come up in the comics once in a while. But while he has them and they aid him they're not that prominent most of the time, so I don't mind them skipping over it.

Also, I absolutely don't see the other point. The two stories were well connected and cutting either would have seriously hurt the movie. Maybe the end of Charles arc was a bit disappointing but otherwise..

[Kyberwulf]

not some bloodhound? In the comics, that is exactly what he was. He could track a falcon on a cloudy day. In the comics, he is able to track people across country. The main reason he smoked a cigar, was to stifle the smells. He is supposed to be very animistic. I mean, Sabertooth has these abilities, I think. In the movies he appears. And for the most part, these two are suppose to be carbon copies of each other. Which reminds me, I would have liked to see Sabertooth somewhere in the movie. Since this is suppose to be the last outing of Hugh Jackman. It's one of the reasons, you can't ever catch Wolverine by surprise.

Like I said, It's just one of those things that bugs me.

I think it kind of hurt the movie. I mean they made a big deal out of the Professors powers. People knew the location of him. Then they didn't do anything? They knew the location of Wolverine, and didn't do anything? I mean, a nurse was able to track him down.

Which, again. Seemed pointless. Why did she stop and ask him for help. She literally seemed to be doing fine without him. The only reason why she was tracked down was because she literally stopped for 3 days to try get him to help. It takes less time to drive to North Dakota from Texas then that. There didn't seem to be any checkpoints or anything in their path. The only reason she was tracked, was because they tracked Wolverine to her.

I liked the movie, but the plot was kind of weak.

[Desiderata]

Enjoyed the movie immensely. Agreed, the plot is mostly just serviceable, as are almost all superhero movies - but for me, the plot was not the point. The character moments in this were so well done - definitely felt for this guy, whose clearly seen and done some bad juju in his life, and is now stuck with a crap-sack living taking care of his aging, sick, broken down father and now dealing with the possibility that he's a father when everyone he knows or cared about, ever, have died. OH yeah, it just so happens he's Logan, his "father" is a dementia-ridden, seizure-induced-WMD Xavier, and he's a father to the most delightfully feral, intense little girl I've seen in a while. All the interaction was great great great

[Frozen_Feet]

To anyone complaining about the movie being grimdark:

Humbug. The bad guys get offed in a moment of karmic justice, are never shown to have any redeeming qualities, and the sole moral complication is learning to live with the fact. Yes, the old mutants die, but Logan and Xavier both get dramatic last words and even Caliban gets to deliver awesome pre-mortem one-liner which helps his friends escape. And in the end, the kids get away safe and mostly sound.

You want to know what an actual grimdark movie would've been?


X-24 makes no appearance. Instead, it is Logan himself who stabs Xavier in his bed. Laura witnesses this and goes berserk, repeatedly stabbing Logan. She stops when she realizes Logan is not fighting back, in fact, he wants to die. As he begs her to finish him, she declines, saying "Xavier would've wanted you to live".

Then she takes the adamantium bullet from him and uses it as a leverage to make him take her to where the other kids are. Except, when they arrive there, they find out the bad guy got there first and all the other kids have already been taken away. Logan and Laura fight him, but Logan gets grievously injured. Laura tries dragging him with her as they flee through the woods from other soldiers, but Logan's slowing her down. He begs her to "let him die". Laura complies, and shoots him in the head with the adamantine bullet, with a gun stolen from the bad guy. The movie ends with a shot of Laura running towards the border as the sole surviving mutant, with the soldiers hot on her track, with no guarantee she will make it.

What, that not grimdark enough? How about this one:

Movie is the same up untill Logan wakes up in the empty cottage. He looks around, and spots the villain with the robot hand sitting in the corner. "Oh, you awake?", villain says. "Took you some time."

Logan angrily asks where the kids are. Villain answers: "Oh, we took them away already. They're a hundred miles worth of bird's flight away from here already. Didn't have heart to wake you up though, princess, you looked like you could use some rest."

Fight between Logan and villain ensues. However, Logan's so weakened by his wounds the villain manages to get the best of him. As Logan's lying at his feet, the villain digs the adamantium bullet from his pocket. "Took this from the girl", he says. "Don't think it belonged to her though. I think it's yours. Did you think of killing yourself?"

Logan tells him to **** off. The villain shakes his head as he chambers the bullet. "I suppose I understand. You're dying anyway, so why not go with a bang? I mean... I know what you're capable of. Were capable of. I shouldn't have stood a chance. But, here we are, me up here, you down there. Doesn't look like you could even lift a gun now. So let me do a favor."

Villain points gun at Logan's head and salutes him. "You know, I always was your fan". And then Logan's brains are scattered on the floor.

The last scene of the movie is Laura being dragged along a corridor and strapped in a Weapon X -style medical chair, with a brainwashing instrument lowered on her head. The evil scientists says: "You know, I have to admit I was wrong. I tried to nurture rage. But you don't nurture rage. You just... design it. From scratch."

And then he pulls a lever and we see how Laura's memories start being erased as they turn her into X24 style killer.

[Chen]

Never understood why an adamantium bullet was supposed to be able to kill Logan. Firstly the bullet looked like a hollow-point which would be terrible at penetrating the same material it was made out of anyways. Even if it did, can Logan's brain not regenerate? I suppose it's just a movie thing, since I don't think they did anything of the sort in the comics.

[Dr.Samurai]

Never understood why an adamantium bullet was supposed to be able to kill Logan. Firstly the bullet looked like a hollow-point which would be terrible at penetrating the same material it was made out of anyways. Even if it did, can Logan's brain not regenerate? I suppose it's just a movie thing, since I don't think they did anything of the sort in the comics.
Well, they introduced it in Origins simply as a way to destroy his memory, the idea being that the brain matter would regenerate but not the memories. The idea was never to kill him with it.

In Logan, I'm guessing the idea is that:

His healing factor is so limited due to the adamantium poisoning him that a bullet to the brain would indeed be fatal. His healing factor, at this point, wouldn't be able to heal him quick enough to allow him to survive.

[Kyberwulf]

I was under the impression the clone wolverine's healing wasn't as strong as originaline.

[Dr.Samurai]

I was under the impression the clone wolverine's healing wasn't as strong as originaline.
Oh right, I forgot it gets used on x24. Yes, they establish earlier he needs the green serum to help his healing factor against grievous injuries.

[Frozen_Feet]

The bullet wouldn't need to penetrate - only to deform Logan's skull in a manner where it puts constant pressure on the right area. Since his regeneration can't push out nor get rid off adamantium, this could leave him in permanently dysfunctional or incapacited state.

[Dr.Samurai]

To anyone complaining about the movie being grimdark:

Humbug. The bad guys get offed in a moment of karmic justice, are never shown to have any redeeming qualities, and the sole moral complication is learning to live with the fact. Yes, the old mutants die, but Logan and Xavier both get dramatic last words and even Caliban gets to deliver awesome pre-mortem one-liner which helps his friends escape. And in the end, the kids get away safe and mostly sound.

You want to know what an actual grimdark movie would've been?


X-24 makes no appearance. Instead, it is Logan himself who stabs Xavier in his bed. Laura witnesses this and goes berserk, repeatedly stabbing Logan. She stops when she realizes Logan is not fighting back, in fact, he wants to die. As he begs her to finish him, she declines, saying "Xavier would've wanted you to live".

Then she takes the adamantium bullet from him and uses it as a leverage to make him take her to where the other kids are. Except, when they arrive there, they find out the bad guy got there first and all the other kids have already been taken away. Logan and Laura fight him, but Logan gets grievously injured. Laura tries dragging him with her as they flee through the woods from other soldiers, but Logan's slowing her down. He begs her to "let him die". Laura complies, and shoots him in the head with the adamantine bullet, with a gun stolen from the bad guy. The movie ends with a shot of Laura running towards the border as the sole surviving mutant, with the soldiers hot on her track, with no guarantee she will make it.

What, that not grimdark enough? How about this one:

Movie is the same up untill Logan wakes up in the empty cottage. He looks around, and spots the villain with the robot hand sitting in the corner. "Oh, you awake?", villain says. "Took you some time."

Logan angrily asks where the kids are. Villain answers: "Oh, we took them away already. They're a hundred miles worth of bird's flight away from here already. Didn't have heart to wake you up though, princess, you looked like you could use some rest."

Fight between Logan and villain ensues. However, Logan's so weakened by his wounds the villain manages to get the best of him. As Logan's lying at his feet, the villain digs the adamantium bullet from his pocket. "Took this from the girl", he says. "Don't think it belonged to her though. I think it's yours. Did you think of killing yourself?"

Logan tells him to **** off. The villain shakes his head as he chambers the bullet. "I suppose I understand. You're dying anyway, so why not go with a bang? I mean... I know what you're capable of. Were capable of. I shouldn't have stood a chance. But, here we are, me up here, you down there. Doesn't look like you could even lift a gun now. So let me do a favor."

Villain points gun at Logan's head and salutes him. "You know, I always was your fan". And then Logan's brains are scattered on the floor.

The last scene of the movie is Laura being dragged along a corridor and strapped in a Weapon X -style medical chair, with a brainwashing instrument lowered on her head. The evil scientists says: "You know, I have to admit I was wrong. I tried to nurture rage. But you don't nurture rage. You just... design it. From scratch."

And then he pulls a lever and we see how Laura's memories start being erased as they turn her into X24 style killer.
I think Rogue One inspires a similar conversation. It's not as dark as people give it credit for being.

There were definitely points in the movie that made me think of scenarios similar to the ones you mention Frozen Foot. I thought it would have been interesting if:

Logan had difficulty, with age, controlling his berserker fury. The reason Caliban was needed to take care of Xavier is because when Logan is stressed, he can lapse into a berserker state and kill people. And Xavier stresses him.

Anyways, perhaps Logan kills Xavier, or Caliban at some point in the movie. It's sort of like... he is the only one that can protect them, but at this point it's a double-edged sword, because combat can bring out the rage. And this is why he refuses to go with Laura into Canada. But the end scene plays out mostly the same way, except Logan kills X-24 in a berserker fury that he can't end. And so he turns on the kids and Laura is forced to put him down like an old feral wounded animal. Maybe earlier in the movie he explains to her that this is what she has to look forward to; poison and rage, being a danger to those around and you slowly dying from the inside out.

[Thialfi]

Superhero movies and comic books have always fluctuated the hero's power to service the plot. Wonder Woman has tanked a nuclear reactor explosion and coming out in better shape than Superman in the same blast. Then she has trouble with Cheetah?

Clan Wolverine have been portrayed as having extraordinary senses such as Wolverine identifying Mystique by her scent when she's posing as someone else. One of the defining characteristics of Laura's character is that the bad guys that made her programmed her with a "trigger scent." Something only she could smell that would send her into a mindless beserker rage. The various Wolverines have, indeed, been shown to have a sense of smell at least on par with a bloodhound, but this always gets dropped when the author needs them to be surprised.

[Kato]

Eh, I don't see the need to make things even darker. Was it dark? Yeah. Was it possible to make it darker? Sure. Would that have made a better movie? Uhm... I don't think so. Of course you don't always need a happy end but it's usually nicer if your audience doesn't leave the cinema crushed.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm not arguing the movie needed to be darker nor that my suggestions would've made a better film.

I'm, via example, delineating "dark" from "grimdark" and making it clear that in a dramatic sense, the movie (and especially its ending) is not even particularly tragic.

Another thing highlighting the hopeful tone of the movie: the cynic - Logan himself! - is wrong. The co-ordinates weren't just wishful thinking, the nurse and the kids had an actual plan and the other kids actually made it there. The movie builds towards Logan's final act of heroism, and it pays off.

[Erys]

I'm not arguing the movie needed to be darker nor that my suggestions would've made a better film.

"Better" is highly subjective...

[Benthesquid]

"Better" is highly subjective...

Which is fine, becaues Frozen Feet isn't talking about making the movie better.

On the R rating- I don't think every superhero movie needs, or would even be improved by an R-rating. But I do think it worked for this one. The bloodier and harder to watch the violence is, the more it drives home just what an awful thing has been done to poor Laura...

[Darth Ultron]

The movie was ok, for a ''last'' movie for two actors and characters. They both get to shine and then fade away. It's nice to have a ''capstone'' and not just have them never do anything again. It's a fad, like Harson Ford getting rid of Han Solo...and next he wants to get rid of Indiana Jones.

And sure the plot is ''escape to Witch Mountain'' with cyborgs.



Disclaimer : I'm not American and I might be fuzzy on what qualifies as an R rating.
.

A lot of the ''R'' rating is not from the violence, it is about the adult situations and most of all showing the real effects of violence.

And that last one is really big. Most Superhero movies have violence where people bloodlessly ''fall down and go to sleep''. But you don't see anything after that. Logan has a lot of that.

You also have violence directed a lots of kids, and not the silly Disney violence where a bad guy Tweddeldum is all like ''I'm gonna get you kid, yuck, yuck, yuck". Also it has it has the ''actions'' that trigger the rating bump as little kids might, zombie-like, to the actions they see in the movie (like attack and kill adults).

[LaZodiac]

Just got back from watching it. Real good. Another great example of how films are better than the comics I think, and another example of how the XMen universe not being involved in the rest of the MCU is objectively better for the stories they want to tell.

In 20 years, when she's older, Laura's actress is going to play the adult version of X23 and she'll be the next Hugh Jackman for like 20 more years. Calling it here. I've never seen a child actress that actually good.

[Desiderata]

Agreed, Dafne Keen is something else. Particularly challenging since a lot of it was completely nonverbal.

I know she's a British citizen, bilingual, with an English father and a Spanish mother, but out of curiosity, how was her accent in Logan, from those who know the language?

[Darth Ultron]

In 20 years, when she's older, Laura's actress is going to play the adult version of X23 and she'll be the next Hugh Jackman for like 20 more years. Calling it here. I've never seen a child actress that actually good.

20 years? Maybe more like 3 or 4 or 5 at the most. They sure are not going to wait 20 years.

After all she would be a prefect fit in a ''New Mutants'' or even ''X-Force'' movie, after she does some stand alone Wolverette movies. Wolverette:the Beginning and Wolverette 2 Claws of the Heart, for example.

A British/Spanish female tough super hero is a huge win, and she would be a huge draw to the Hispanics too(for you know...reasons) on top of being popular with everyone else too.

[Mrc.]

I just watched it and found it pretty good. There were flaws, sure, but overall it was enjoyable.

My one gripe with it was the bit where Laura drove the car for a bit. How would her feet have reached the pedals? I can accept a child being modified to become a mutant and having adamantium claws coming out of her hands and feet but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far.

[Kato]

I just watched it and found it pretty good. There were flaws, sure, but overall it was enjoyable.

My one gripe with it was the bit where Laura drove the car for a bit. How would her feet have reached the pedals? I can accept a child being modified to become a mutant and having adamantium claws coming out of her hands and feet but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far.

If we are talking flaws as in "weird to explain things" I'd be more curious how Charles mass stun kept dead people standing. I mean, you could argue he had complete control over their nervous system but it's more likely he just affected living, thinking people and then the dead should have dropped right away. Or why bad guys still believe creating mindless weapons is a good plan, when subservient children who consider you loving caretakers are so much easier to control.

[Mrc.]

I mean pretty much every film that revolves around "bad guys versus good guys" needs the bad guys to be astronomically idiotic in order for half the plots to work out (often the good guys are equally as stupid).

[Darth Ultron]

My one gripe with it was the bit where Laura drove the car for a bit. How would her feet have reached the pedals? I can accept a child being modified to become a mutant and having adamantium claws coming out of her hands and feet but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far.

Yea....I think there might be a cut bit where like Logan moves some plastic milk crates or something from the car floor.

And sure the foot claw is cool....but I wonder where does the claw come out of her foot? Is she missing her middle toe and is that where the claw hole is? Or does it come out of the top of her foot? And considering how much a foot moves when a person walks...well, how does she walk with a metal pole in her foot?


If we are talking flaws as in "weird to explain things" I'd be more curious how Charles mass stun kept dead people standing. I mean, you could argue he had complete control over their nervous system but it's more likely he just affected living, thinking people and then the dead should have dropped right away. Or why bad guys still believe creating mindless weapons is a good plan, when subservient children who consider you loving caretakers are so much easier to control.

It was some type of mental paralyzing and that messing with time thing..so maybe a body would ''not know'' it's dead in the effected time? Or maybe it was a bit of telekinesis?

And well, bad guys will always be bad.....

[LaZodiac]

If we are talking flaws as in "weird to explain things" I'd be more curious how Charles mass stun kept dead people standing. I mean, you could argue he had complete control over their nervous system but it's more likely he just affected living, thinking people and then the dead should have dropped right away. Or why bad guys still believe creating mindless weapons is a good plan, when subservient children who consider you loving caretakers are so much easier to control.

With Charles it's definitely a case of just extreme telekinesis. As for the bad guys...look, Weapon X made Deadpool. They made Wolverine. I think they made Sabertooth. They just scream "we can totally get it to work this time!" from the top of their lungs every day. Honestly, it kind of works, because...I mean X24 WAS controllable after a fashion! They finally got it right, to a degree.

[Frozen_Feet]

My headcanon is that their PR department actually spins some of their failures as free advertizing. That is, every time Wolverine did something awesome as an X-man, they videotaped it and showed it to bunch of potential buyers. "See that dude? We made that dude. Wouldn't it be cool to have a dude like that on your side? Here's our bank account. Feel free to deposit as much as you like."

[Chen]

With Charles it's definitely a case of just extreme telekinesis. As for the bad guys...look, Weapon X made Deadpool. They made Wolverine. I think they made Sabertooth. They just scream "we can totally get it to work this time!" from the top of their lungs every day. Honestly, it kind of works, because...I mean X24 WAS controllable after a fashion! They finally got it right, to a degree.

Pretty sure Professor X doesn't have telekinesis. His powers are pure telepathy.

[Dienekes]

Pretty sure Professor X doesn't have telekinesis. His powers are pure telepathy.

Originally, yes. X was telekinesis. Jean was both.

But, he has lifted himself to appear to be walking so many times in the comics. Also whenever he goes evil he seems to suddenly gain the ability to move objects with his mind.

This is never explained.

[Mrc.]

With Marvel when in doubt just assume an alternate universe. It saves a lot of time and stress.

[Chen]

Originally, yes. X was telekinesis. Jean was both.

But, he has lifted himself to appear to be walking so many times in the comics. Also whenever he goes evil he seems to suddenly gain the ability to move objects with his mind.

This is never explained.

Yeah I mean its certainly possible in the comics. In all the movies though I think they've held pretty firm to the only telepathy bit unless I'm forgetting something.

[Dienekes]

Yeah I mean its certainly possible in the comics. In all the movies though I think they've held pretty firm to the only telepathy bit unless I'm forgetting something.

Ahh. My apologies.

How I would justify it then, would be he is controlling the very neural pulses in the brain. Sending signals across their entire body so even if they die their body is still locked in place.

Is this gibberish? Yeah probably I don't know crap about anatomy. But it doesn't seem much less believable than mutants in general.

[Dr.Samurai]

Well, a stab through the brain isn't necessarily instantly fatal. Unless Logan severed the spinal cord, Xavier could still send signals to hold the men in place, and especially if he didn't know Logan had struck the men, he would continue the mass telepathic holding effect indefinitely (until he couldn't any longer). After Xavier is given the shot, the guys would fall to the floor and continue dying (probably very quickly).

[Bob_the_Mighty]

On the topic of the movie being dark, one of the darker parts, which I don't think they really probably thought of, was that

X-23 seems to have been infused with Adamantium already, at a very young age. Not only does this mean that she's likely doomed to suffer the same fate as Wolverine but at an even earlier age, it also means that her bones won't be able to grow

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think they where. The scenes we did see where probably them just experimenting. I don't think they would want to invest that much into her yet

[Bob_the_Mighty]

I don't think they where. The scenes we did see where probably them just experimenting. I don't think they would want to invest that much into her yet

Thinking about it, it's possible that it was only the claw bits, or even that it was just some other type of metal (which would be almost equally terrible), but Imposter Wolverine is equally experimental, if not more so, and he also seems to have gotten the full adamantium treatment.

[Doorhandle]

On the topic of the movie being dark, one of the darker parts, which I don't think they really probably thought of, was that

X-23 seems to have been infused with Adamantium already, at a very young age. Not only does this mean that she's likely doomed to suffer the same fate as Wolverine but at an even earlier age, it also means that her bones won't be able to grow

The darkest part is probably- The women who had to carry the test-tube babies to term. Judging from the bloodstains, they weren't clean births, and the mothers probably weren't willing.

Speaking of dark goriness: I like how in this movie, the gore seemed to be logical, rather than excessive or done for gore's sake. Sure, heads and arms get ripped off left and right, but that's basically the logical result of being hit with arbitrarily sharp adamantium claws. Likewise with regeneration: in addition to being a fantastically gory display, it makes sense that Logan would have to wash himself and wait for the bullets to push themselves out before changing his shirt.


when the other kids use their powers, it follows a similar pattern: a frozen arm get smashed, but that's about what you would expect from a flash-freezed arm, and the same applies when the kids gang up on the main villainous cyborg. About the only exceptions are when the guy in the windstorm randomly explodes, and when X-24's head is blown open, and even then that's merely a stretch.

Hell, it even applies to one of the comedy moments of the move: they hadn't gone into the full implications of being a paraplegic nonagenarian before that point.

Basically everything grotesque in the movie is there because it's the logical implications of Razor-sharp claws, regeneration being wheelchair-bound or whatever they're displaying at the time.

[KillingAScarab]

Just saw the movie. Haven't read through the whole thread, yet, but this part stood out.


Speaking of dark goriness: I like how in this movie, the gore seemed to be logical, rather than excessive or done for gore's sake. Sure, heads and arms get ripped off left and right, but that's basically the logical result of being hit with arbitrarily sharp adamantium claws. Likewise with regeneration: in addition to being a fantastically gory display, it makes sense that Logan would have to wash himself and wait for the bullets to push themselves out before changing his shirt.If we're going to bring logic to a comic book film... well, there may be some problems. The adamantium doesn't make the claws arbitrarily sharp, just unbreakable. If you want to cut something dense with that, you still need to put the proper amount of force behind them to do so. They are sharp, which helps, but let's be honest, there are points in this movie where Logan basically touches things with his claws and they fall apart. This is not much different than any other treatment of the famous claws of fictional metal, and people aren't reading/watching to see someone struggle because of the wrong angle, but it certainly requires suspension of disbelief. Also convenient was that all Logan's tissues waited for him to get to a place where he could collect the foreign objects before they began pushing them out. Regenerating body parts are polite like that.

With that, I would like to highlight my favorite parts to disbelieve, or require one to believe something more ludicrous as well:

The adamantium bullet
The only previous occurrence of such a thing was in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. The events of that movie shouldn't exist anymore, so that would mean Logan just found a bullet made of metal which is supposedly unbreakable (except when it meets more of itself, but traveling at bullet speeds). I like to think in the events before the start of the movie, Logan picked one of these up from that same chain of convenience stores from which he got the car charger.

Canada is safe
Canada is exactly the country where Logan was turned into Weapon X in X-Men: Apocalypse. Even if that's only implicit, the Reavers who have been after Laura for the entire film weren't bothered by crossing the USA/Mexico border. Also, they had a clone of Logan, with no signs they couldn't make another. A Logan clone probably also has the heightened senses which they largely stopped depicting entirely after X-2: X-Men United, and would be quite a capable tracker. So, since the USA/Canada border seems to be getting the Medicine Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49th_parallel_north#Canada.E2.80.93United_States_b order) treatment, let's say that the border is actually a barrier which specifically keeps cyborgs, clones and megacorporations out.

[Kitten Champion]

I have a question that's been on my mind, I assume it answered in the movie somehow but I missed it.


How did the nurse Gabriela die exactly? She was shot and left to rot in her motel room I know, but when pressed Pierce denied his own culpability while asking if Logan did it for whatever reason and Logan pointing out that he didn't use guns - which in retrospect is ironic given the ending. I don't see the reason for Pierce deceiving Logan except maybe to lighten his guard somewhat, but neither character was particularly naive about the other at any point for that to really play in.

Did she merely give out from the initial injury she had when she met Logan at the motel before?

[KillingAScarab]

I have a question that's been on my mind, I assume it answered in the movie somehow but I missed it.Hm. That is a good question. I don't know that I have a satisfactory answer. Whomever did it broke the door (unless that was staged for Logan's benefit). The only other person which she interacted with was the woman from the motel office. She wouldn't have needed to break the door if she was some secret megacorporation assassin. Also, whomever killed Gabriela would need to have done so when Laura wasn't around. I didn't notice any hired goon bodies.

Maybe Donald Pierce was supposed to be insinuating that they could frame Logan for murdering her. If that was the case, it wasn't conveyed well. Also, they did have a clone of Logan, but they weren't anywhere close to revealing him and that's the sort of thing you wouldn't need to break the door for.

[Doorhandle]

Just saw the movie. Haven't read through the whole thread, yet, but this part stood out.

If we're going to bring logic to a comic book film... well, there may be some problems. The adamantium doesn't make the claws arbitrarily sharp, just unbreakable. If you want to cut something dense with that, you still need to put the proper amount of force behind them to do so. They are sharp, which helps, but let's be honest, there are points in this movie where Logan basically touches things with his claws and they fall apart. This is not much different than any other treatment of the famous claws of fictional metal, and people aren't reading/watching to see someone struggle because of the wrong angle, but it certainly requires suspension of disbelief. Also convenient was that all Logan's tissues waited for him to get to a place where he could collect the foreign objects before they began pushing them out. Regenerating body parts are polite like that.

With that, I would like to highlight my favorite parts to disbelieve, or require one to believe something more ludicrous as well:

The adamantium bullet
The only previous occurrence of such a thing was in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. The events of that movie shouldn't exist anymore, so that would mean Logan just found a bullet made of metal which is supposedly unbreakable (except when it meets more of itself, but traveling at bullet speeds). I like to think in the events before the start of the movie, Logan picked one of these up from that same chain of convenience stores from which he got the car charger.

Canada is safe
Canada is exactly the country where Logan was turned into Weapon X in X-Men: Apocalypse. Even if that's only implicit, the Reavers who have been after Laura for the entire film weren't bothered by crossing the USA/Mexico border. Also, they had a clone of Logan, with no signs they couldn't make another. A Logan clone probably also has the heightened senses which they largely stopped depicting entirely after X-2: X-Men United, and would be quite a capable tracker. So, since the USA/Canada border seems to be getting the Medicine Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49th_parallel_north#Canada.E2.80.93United_States_b order) treatment, let's say that the border is actually a barrier which specifically keeps cyborgs, clones and megacorporations out.


With you on the bullet. Plus, the claws really should cut heads into 3 pieces rather than 1 whole thing. I still stand by my point though.

[Kitten Champion]

Hm. That is a good question. I don't know that I have a satisfactory answer. Whomever did it broke the door (unless that was staged for Logan's benefit). The only other person which she interacted with was the woman from the motel office. She wouldn't have needed to break the door if she was some secret megacorporation assassin. Also, whomever killed Gabriela would need to have done so when Laura wasn't around. I didn't notice any hired goon bodies.

Maybe Donald Pierce was supposed to be insinuating that they could frame Logan for murdering her. If that was the case, it wasn't conveyed well.

Okay... the scenario I think which fits what's shown that I can remember.

She died from the injuries she already sustained - where we saw her bleeding and collapsed - because she dare not leave before Logan showed even to save her life and was composing that video log with the last of her energy. The door was broken when Pierce and co. had located her and - like Logan - found her dead. I assume she was injured while breaking out the kids.

While that makes logical sense - even if treated you can die easily - it's just rarely how movies/television operate, where if you get an extended rest or are have medical-based character nearby you'll be fine.

[KillingAScarab]

Okay... the scenario I think which fits what's shown that I can remember.

Hm. There are two detail regarding her phone that make me think death by wounds/infection/blood loss was less likely. Her phone was hidden away in the same place Logan saw she hid the money. It also had a typed, but not sent, reply to Logan saying something along the lines of "Hurry, they're here" on it. This would mean the Reavers found the phone, didn't remove the video from it, and typed that message. Pierce knew Logan had Charles Xavier in Mexico, but Laura was the primary target. If Laura had been bait so that they could get Logan to take them to Xavier... then the plot gets much less believable, but then leaving the phone for Logan to find makes sense. ...unless Logan has heightened senses and can smell Reavers had the phone, but then again, he does need reading glasses.

I thought of the Reavers' attempts to kill Xavier as a secondary objective, since they never did anything to prepare against a telepath. I suppose they had the Logan clone, but I doubt they would know he could withstand what killed the X-Men. I don't think it was ever stated that Logan was in Westchester when that happened.

[Kitten Champion]

Hm. There are two detail regarding her phone that make me think death by wounds/infection/blood loss was less likely. Her phone was hidden away in the same place Logan saw she hid the money. It also had a typed, but not sent, reply to Logan saying something along the lines of "Hurry, they're here" on it. This would mean the Reavers found the phone, didn't remove the video from it, and typed that message. Pierce knew Logan had Charles Xavier in Mexico, but Laura was the primary target. If Laura had been bait so that they could get Logan to take them to Xavier... then the plot gets much less believable, but then leaving the phone for Logan to find makes sense. ...unless Logan has heightened senses and can smell Reavers had the phone, but then again, he does need reading glasses.

I thought of the Reavers' attempts to kill Xavier as a secondary objective, since they never did anything to prepare against a telepath. I suppose they had the Logan clone, but I doubt they would know he could withstand what killed the X-Men. I don't think it was ever stated that Logan was in Westchester when that happened.

Oh, you're right. I forgot about the cell message. I'm genuinely confused.

[KillingAScarab]

Oh, you're right. I forgot about the cell message. I'm genuinely confused.You and me both.
I'm leaning toward Pierce just lying to Logan. It doesn't fit him being a fan of Logan and wanting to be straightforward, but it makes more sense than the veiled threat of framing him when they already have corrupt Mexican law enforcement there not looking for Logan.

The current version of the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Logan_%28film%29&oldid=771832164) for Logan has some details which I didn't pick up on by watching the film. There are presently no citations for them.
The big one for me is that it states when Logan is dying, he recalls his past. I only heard Logan say, "So this is what it feels like," and assumed he was referring to either his death or someone caring about it. Furthermore, there is no point in this movie when Logan is struggling with his identity and lost memories. The closest thing to that is the adamantium bullet "to remind me of what I was" and maybe the nightmares in which "I hurt people." So, without anything within the movie regarding that struggle, only fans of the previous films would be sensitive to that... but which previous films was this one actually tied to? Again, the adamantium bullet is from a film which was loathed enough its events shouldn't exist anymore. But, the revised future from X-Men: Days of Future Past doesn't seem to match this one's year 2029. Did they actually do that only for the comics fans, then, or is that detail inaccurate?

The other details have to do with X-24. The article states that the Logan clone had an inferior healing factor and a weaker adamantium skeleton. I don't recall anything from the dialog to support that.

[Dr.Samurai]

I think Logan was referring to Xavier's line earlier about living life. He says that very line or something similar to it "this is what it feels like". But Logan has really shut himself off from the notion of living a normal life or being close to anyone again. I think in his final moments, with his daughter, he was realizing what Xavier was trying to get across to him. EDIT: Alternatively, the girl in The Wolverine tells Logan that he will die lying in a pool of blood (or covered in blood, or something to that effect) with his heart in his hand. The blood is self-evident, and his heart is Laura. So there is that connection, but I'm not sure the best way to describe either of those is "reliving his memories" or whatever the articles says.

Regarding X-24, after his first fight with Logan on the farmstead, he is not regenerating the grievous wound to his head/face/eye. The scientist guy has to administer the green serum to him and states that it will help his healing factor. His healing factor is weaker than Logan's original healing factor. I don't know that the adamantium was ever addressed though.

[MattHogan]

worth watching movie in 2017

[MissT109]

I'm absolutely in love with Wolverine's character and I cannot wait to see this movie. I'm actually going to do it tomorrow, so I don't wanna read this thread till then as I'm sure there will be numerous spoilers :smallbiggrin:

[BWR]

Just got back from seeing it, and I'm quite impressed. Excellent performances by Jackman and Stewart and Keen, some genuinely touching moments and a sad end to this series of movies.
I think my favorite bits were Wolvie getting upset at the comics and the frustrated yet caring relationship between Wolvie and Xavier.

It was not perfect, however. The action sequences in the beginning were a jumbled mess, though they got a bit better as the movie progressed. It was also very guilty of one of my pet peeves: people with guns running into melee range of dangerous people rather than shooting from a distance. Especially with a 'dead or alive' on the kids' heads, why risk yourself with 'alive'?

[Dr.Samurai]

Especially with a 'dead or alive' on the kids' heads, why risk yourself with 'alive'?
Yeah, I remember feeling like the movie kept vacillating between these two. At the end, when they're running through the woods, I was thinking "Did I miss a scene where they mentioned why these guys wouldn't be shooting these kids dead right now and are instead running them down??"

[Rogar Demonblud]

The main issue is that socially we have a ridiculously huge amount of conditioning against harming children. And it crops up all the time. One of the reasons why a lot of movies have essentially no parental supervision of the kids involved (Big Hero 6 immediately pops into mind) is that, given what the kids get up to, the parents would be disciplinary figures inflicting some kind of punishment on the kids. Also, if you watch Agents of SHIELD, you'll remember the episode where we found out exactly what happened with May in Bahrain. ABC got flooded with complaints basically demanding the character be removed from the show immediately, often violently. If you were on some of the less moderated forums then, you remember the amount of revenge porn directed at a woman who made a bad choice in a horrible position, and who was broken by it.

So it's no surprise that the movie makers couldn't bring themselves to have the genocidal villains harm children.

[KillingAScarab]

Yeah, I remember feeling like the movie kept vacillating between these two. At the end, when they're running through the woods, I was thinking "Did I miss a scene where they mentioned why these guys wouldn't be shooting these kids dead right now and are instead running them down??"

They did shoot Rictor (who seemed to be telekinetic instead of an earthquake generator (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Julio_Richter_%28Earth-616%29)). It was distracting that he seemed to forget where, exactly, he was shot. Somewhere generally on his upper torso, which Pierce also called "a flesh wound." He seemed to walk it off by the end of the movie, so maybe he and the other children had injected themselves with the green stuff they gave to Logan.

[Kyberwulf]

The only reason I can see. Is to get some information on if they talked to anyone.

[LaZodiac]

They did shoot Rictor (who seemed to be telekinetic instead of an earthquake generator (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Julio_Richter_%28Earth-616%29)). It was distracting that he seemed to forget where, exactly, he was shot. Somewhere generally on his upper torso, which Pierce also called "a flesh wound." He seemed to walk it off by the end of the movie, so maybe he and the other children had injected themselves with the green stuff they gave to Logan.

In the movie he is clearly an earth mover type guy and OH MY ****ING GOD HIS NAME IS RICTOR RIGHT. WHAT A NAME.

[BWR]

Another thing that occurred to me:
IIRC, Rice and his crew were responsible for the lack of natural mutant births....I can buy them managing to do this in one country, possibly a handful of minor ones, but all over the world? How the hell did they pull that off?

[LaZodiac]

Another thing that occurred to me:
IIRC, Rice and his crew were responsible for the lack of natural mutant births....I can buy them managing to do this in one country, possibly a handful of minor ones, but all over the world? How the hell did they pull that off?

I'd argue between Charles' problems and the way America is, it may be localized to just the States. After all, how could Canada be a safe haven for Mutants otherwise?

[Night Daughter]

I'll be honest. I'm actually a bit bummed that its rated R. I'm a mormon, and because of this, I won't be seeing any R-rated movies, regardless of how good they may be.

I was perfectly fine with PG-13 Wolverine. Honestly, this film probably could've been PG-13 and still have the same impact. You don't need to show a lot of gore, nudity, etc. to make a good Wolverine film. In fact, selective censorship can be just as effective, if not more effective, if used properly.

I do not mean to intrude or to besmirch you or what you believe.

But I thought it might be a good idea to look up what is bad in a movie specifically and decide on that basis.

The film rating system here in America is rather flawed. For example a movie where two men kissed (not made out) once was given an R rating while another movie had a undead corpse making out/eating on a victim that was screaming for help and it got a PG rating.

[Kitten Champion]

If the method they used was indeed a hidden gene-altering agent in the food supply, that would be difficult to contain within any nation's borders.

Furthermore, in this kind of universe it would be pretty consistent with every bit of available evidence ever shown in any X-Men movies and most of the comics that Rice and people like him would have the full intrinsic support of the world's power blocs to stealthily and non-violently eliminate the Mutant issue permanently, particularly if they follow that up with "and then we can make them ourselves in controlled conditions".

[Kyberwulf]

That is to even say there were really mutants in other countries. I mean I sure there were a couple. They all seemed to be American though.

[GloatingSwine]

If the method they used was indeed a hidden gene-altering agent in the food supply, that would be difficult to contain within any nation's borders.


Not if it's in GM corn syrup, which is what they mention in the movie.

Corn syrup is a relatively uniquely American sweetening agent with little impact in the wider world because, well, we weren't afraid of getting sugar laced with communism.

(The US corn syrup industry is a consequence of the embargo against Cuba, prior to that most of the sugar in the US was imported from Cuba. When the embargo went up subsidies went out to corn producers to replace sugar with corn syrup in order to defeat filthy communist sugar. Most of the rest of the world uses sugar instead.)

[Kitten Champion]

Not if it's in GM corn syrup, which is what they mention in the movie.

Corn syrup is a relatively uniquely American sweetening agent with little impact in the wider world because, well, we weren't afraid of getting sugar laced with communism.

(The US corn syrup industry is a consequence of the embargo against Cuba, prior to that most of the sugar in the US was imported from Cuba. When the embargo went up subsidies went out to corn producers to replace sugar with corn syrup in order to defeat filthy communist sugar. Most of the rest of the world uses sugar instead.)

Much of the world's population consumes soft drinks and other American processed foods in my experience. Their affordability and increasing ubiquity in the developing world as well has been a large contributor to the substantial increase in obesity and obesity-related diseases.

Though, viewed in terms of a fictional work, it's a bit of a satiric poke at GMO conspiracies and a callback to the farm portion earlier. Darkly humorous, I suppose.

[GloatingSwine]

Much of the world's population consumes soft drinks and other American processed foods in my experience. Their affordability and increasing ubiquity in the developing world as well has been a large contributor to the substantial increase in obesity and obesity-related diseases.


Yes, but they're made locally and not with corn syrup, because most countries don't grow the vast quantities of corn that America does.

You buy coke or pepsi in America, it's sweetened with corn syrup. You buy it even as close as Mexico and it isn't, it's made in Mexico and sweetened with cane sugar. Buy it in England and it's made in England and sweetened with beet sugar.

[Kyberwulf]

Except they made a big deal about them pushing local farmers out. Could be the same thing in other countries. It isnt just the corn. It's whatever chemical they used. Whose to say they couldn't add the chemical to other sources. Could be they sweeten the beets with the chems. Or cane sugar. Or just say they are using whatever syrup and just dumping it all to use exclusively the chemical itself.

[BWR]

Except they made a big deal about them pushing local farmers out. Could be the same thing in other countries. It isnt just the corn. It's whatever chemical they used. Whose to say they couldn't add the chemical to other sources. Could be they sweeten the beets with the chems. Or cane sugar. Or just say they are using whatever syrup and just dumping it all to use exclusively the chemical itself.

I still find it hard to believe they could do this on a global basis without this company already owning the world and thus having no problems with legality or manpower.

[Kyberwulf]

Who says they had to rule anything. They could have just had a meeting with the UN and be like. Tired of Mutants ruining the world, give them taste of Electrolytes. The governments could have been like. We don't want to kill anyone. Then BAM, the sales clincher. It doesn't kill, it nullifies and blocks their power. Then get's rid of this mutant gene. Then BAM. They were like. Okay, that's me, where do I sign up.

Not all plots require supreme level of corruption. Just enough people tired of the world almost being blowed up by a certain group of people.

[Dr.Samurai]

Deadpool explains the lack of mutants in solo character X-Men movies.

[Beleriphon]

We do see it a bit in the movies. In X2, he hears the soldiers infiltrating the mansion, allowing him to outmaneuver the one heading for the kitchen. And does he sniff out Mystique at one point or another? Can't remember.

The very fist X-Men movie Mystique is disguised as Storm and Wolverine smells the difference.

[Erys]

I still find it hard to believe they could do this on a global basis without this company already owning the world and thus having no problems with legality or manpower.

Monsanto does a lot of similar stuff, they don't own the world.

But, they sure do bribe... er, ummm, 'lobby' a lot to almost always get their way.

[Eldan]

Just came back from watching it and the thread isn't quite a month old yet. Overall opinion: eh.

The acting is good,sure. From everyone except one or two of the kids. But the writing? Schmaltzy as hell throughout. Painfully so, sometimes. American movies sure love their pre-death emotional one liners. "Daddy." "So this is what it feels like" was one of the worst movie lines I've seen in ages.

Plus, the villains. Ugh. The doctor was one step away from twirling his moustache and holding an "I'm evil" sign directly into the camera. "Nonono, you can't do that. We're too evil to celebrate birthdays." A bit, even a tiny bit, of moral complexity might have gone a long way here.

[Lethologica]

With that, I would like to highlight my favorite parts to disbelieve, or require one to believe something more ludicrous as well:
Canada is safe
Canada is exactly the country where Logan was turned into Weapon X in X-Men: Apocalypse. Even if that's only implicit, the Reavers who have been after Laura for the entire film weren't bothered by crossing the USA/Mexico border. Also, they had a clone of Logan, with no signs they couldn't make another. A Logan clone probably also has the heightened senses which they largely stopped depicting entirely after X-2: X-Men United, and would be quite a capable tracker. So, since the USA/Canada border seems to be getting the Medicine Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49th_parallel_north#Canada.E2.80.93United_States_b order) treatment, let's say that the border is actually a barrier which specifically keeps cyborgs, clones and megacorporations out.

X-Men: Apocalypse is a different timeline, and it's also about 50 years prior to Logan. Any apparent inconsistencies are readily attributable to that.

In the movie, Canada is an active agent: the children have to reach a specific place on the border within a specific time window and the government will grant them asylum. We don't have to know the exact nature of the protection coming with that, only that it's sufficient to deter the bad guys. Military? A government mutant team? It's 2029 in the X-verse, could be anything.

[BWR]

Just came back from watching it and the thread isn't quite a month old yet. Overall opinion: eh.

The acting is good,sure. From everyone except one or two of the kids. But the writing? Schmaltzy as hell throughout. Painfully so, sometimes. American movies sure love their pre-death emotional one liners. "Daddy." "So this is what it feels like" was one of the worst movie lines I've seen in ages.

Plus, the villains. Ugh. The doctor was one step away from twirling his moustache and holding an "I'm evil" sign directly into the camera. "Nonono, you can't do that. We're too evil to celebrate birthdays." A bit, even a tiny bit, of moral complexity might have gone a long way here.

I agree with you on the death scene. 'Daddy' mostly ruined the entire effort, but it was saved by making the cross into an X. The doctor's refusal to have birthdays makes sense, actually. These aren't children, they are immature weapons. You don't want to make them any more human than necessary and things like birthday parties will just introduce all sorts of unnecessary and potentially troublesome thoughts. Of course the real point of failure was using obviously unsuitable nurses to give these weapons unfortunate ideas.

[Eldan]

You mean nurses who feel for hte children, smuggle phones into a high security facility, are filming said facility unchecked and somehow smuggle a dozen children past various guards?

Actually, I want a superhero team based on those nurses.

[BWR]

You mean nurses who feel for hte children, smuggle phones into a high security facility, are filming said facility unchecked and somehow smuggle a dozen children past various guards?

Actually, I want a superhero team based on those nurses.

Those are the ones. I mean, good for them but the baddies' hiring and security practices are obviously atrocious.

[Starbuck_II]

Why didn't Xavier do another Body Snatch?
He did it last time when the Phoenix disintegrated him in X3.
Thus, his mind would no longer be messed up and he would be healthy again.

Sure, he would have to find another coma patient and then modify their face again, but eh. Not like they were using their bodies.

[LaZodiac]

Why didn't Xavier do another Body Snatch?
He did it last time when the Phoenix disintegrated him in X3.
Thus, his mind would no longer be messed up and he would be healthy again.

Sure, he would have to find another coma patient and then modify their face again, but eh. Not like they were using their bodies.

Two answers for that one.

1: Perhaps mental diseases are connected directly to the mind, not the physical brain

2: That entire sequence of events you described is stupid

[Kato]

I agree with you on the death scene. 'Daddy' mostly ruined the entire effort, but it was saved by making the cross into an X. The doctor's refusal to have birthdays makes sense, actually. These aren't children, they are immature weapons. You don't want to make them any more human than necessary and things like birthday parties will just introduce all sorts of unnecessary and potentially troublesome thoughts. Of course the real point of failure was using obviously unsuitable nurses to give these weapons unfortunate ideas.

Eh, I said it already and I'll say it again...
Yes, I see your point but THIS NEVER WORKS. Not in fiction, and I don't think in real life. The point is not to turn them into weapons, the point is to turn them into your obedient followers. You don't drill them to hate you, you drill them to love you and do anything for you. That's how you get good soldiers.

[Vogie]

Why didn't Xavier do another Body Snatch?
He did it last time when the Phoenix disintegrated him in X3.
Thus, his mind would no longer be messed up and he would be healthy again.

Sure, he would have to find another coma patient and then modify their face again, but eh. Not like they were using their bodies.

I'm fairly certain that no longer happened thanks to the Days of Future Past reboot. And He didn't modify the face... Charles Xavier went into the body of his Braindead twin brother, identified only as "P. Xavier". Because, evidently, the movie was funded by a soap company, I guess?

I think that even if the professor could have done that, he would have actively chosen to not to, because:

there's a possibility that the degeneration would pass along to the other person, and
he knows what that feels like in this timeline, as that is what almost happened to him during the Age Long Weekend of Apocalypse, which made him lose his hair.

[Dragonexx]

Considering he's not in complete control of his powers, it's highly doubtful he'd be able to do that.

[dwaynewalker019]

Hmm...
Logan is good.
But it's different than the comics, so different.

[Vogie]

The Honest Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_SyrpYk-Ik) for Logan is up. It's pretty funny

[Rothis Sil]

I liked this movie as much as I liked the first Wolverine movie.

I liked the first Wolverine movie.

[Erys]

I'm fairly certain that no longer happened thanks to the Days of Future Past reboot. And He didn't modify the face... Charles Xavier went into the body of his Braindead twin brother, identified only as "P. Xavier". Because, evidently, the movie was funded by a soap company, I guess?

I think that even if the professor could have done that, he would have actively chosen to not to, because:

there's a possibility that the degeneration would pass along to the other person, and
he knows what that feels like in this timeline, as that is what almost happened to him during the Age Long Weekend of Apocalypse, which made him lose his hair.


3: He has Alzheimer's, so even if he could- he probably doesn't remember how to do it.

[KillingAScarab]

The Honest Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_SyrpYk-Ik) for Logan is up. It's pretty funnyThat, "Rated R," was a perfect line.

[Starbuck_II]

I never noticed till that video how much screaming there was. Anyone think that they will make a sequel?
I mean, they can just like clone Logan again after all.

Or do a film about his daughter.

[Vogie]

I never noticed till that video how much screaming there was. Anyone think that they will make a sequel?
I mean, they can just like clone Logan again after all.

Or do a film about his daughter.

I would love a film about the daughter, X-23. Maybe about the whole new slew of Mutant-lings living in Future-Canada. There's plenty of really cool coming of age types of films that could be done even without tapping into the X-23 source material... the original crux of the "Mutant" stories were coming of age tales. Now that we're on a first-name basis with mutants, they can actually do such things.

[KillingAScarab]

I never noticed till that video how much screaming there was. Anyone think that they will make a sequel?
I mean, they can just like clone Logan again after all.

Or do a film about his daughter.


I would love a film about the daughter, X-23. Maybe about the whole new slew of Mutant-lings living in Future-Canada. There's plenty of really cool coming of age types of films that could be done even without tapping into the X-23 source material... the original crux of the "Mutant" stories were coming of age tales. Now that we're on a first-name basis with mutants, they can actually do such things.Hugh Jackman said this was his last X-Men film as Logan, but they've been trying to get him to do the Deadpool sequel. As for Laura Kinney, the director James Mangold said it might happen (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/849057-logan-noir-x23#/slide/1) after a screening of Logan Noir. I, for one, would love it if they just put Laura into the new main timeline. The post-credits sequence from X-Men: Apocalypse gives a viable reason to do that. I don't believe I want to see her in New Mutants, though. She would overshadow Illyana. We've already had over a decade of a Wolverine taking the spotlight from other characters, and if they're using Illyana she deserves it.

[zook1shoe]

Loved this movie. Jackman's best acting yet.