Ambush and Scout

[Garfunion]

Ambush and Scout

The debate over the difference between investigation and perception skill continues.
However I decided to create a new system that might be a little more friendly in my opinion.
This new system is more focused on initiative rolls then actually spotting the bad guys before they ambush you.

Speaking of initiative rolls, I decided to remove dexterity as the primary modifier for determining initiative. Instead players will be using intelligence, wisdom, or charisma modifier to determine their initiative modifier. To try to add some fairness to this, your class/archetype will determine which modifier you will use.
Intelligence has you logically looking at combat.
Wisdom uses your primal instincts or faith.
Charisma represents how much your faith likes you or you're very lucky.

Back to the primary topic at hand.

Ambush
When monsters are actively trying to hide themselves to ambush, it would seem to me that they would take 20 on their hide skill. This means that they will take about 20 to 30 minutes to hide themselves. This gives the ambushers advantage on their initiative rolls. If the ambushers go before their prey has a chance to act (on the first round), they gain advantage. However if their prey goes before them they do not gain advantage.

Scout
Players who have special training can perform the scout action. Scouting adds an extra 30 minutes to every hour of travel. The scout then rolls a d20 + their proficiency bonus against a DC13 + special creature modifiers (if any). A scout may gain additional bonuses to their roll. If the scout succeeds with d20 roll they find the ambush and make safely report back. If they fail they find nothing and the ambushers may choose to attack the scout.

This is just an idea that I'm trying to refine in order to remove perception entirely, making investigation skill the primary active search skill.

[djreynolds]

Ambush and Scout

The debate over the difference between investigation and perception skill continues.
However I decided to create a new system that might be a little more friendly in my opinion.
This new system is more focused on initiative rolls then actually spotting the bad guys before they ambush you.

Speaking of initiative rolls, I decided to remove dexterity as the primary modifier for determining initiative. Instead players will be using intelligence, wisdom, or charisma modifier to determine their initiative modifier. To try to add some fairness to this, your class/archetype will determine which modifier you will use.
Intelligence has you logically looking at combat.
Wisdom uses your primal instincts or faith.
Charisma represents how much your faith likes you or you're very lucky.

Back to the primary topic at hand.

Ambush
When monsters are actively trying to hide themselves to ambush, it would seem to me that they would take 20 on their hide skill. This means that they will take about 20 to 30 minutes to hide themselves. This gives the ambushers advantage on their initiative rolls. If the ambushers go before their prey has a chance to act (on the first round), they gain advantage. However if their prey goes before them they do not gain advantage.

Scout
Players who have special training can perform the scout action. Scouting adds an extra 30 minutes to every hour of travel. The scout then rolls a d20 + their proficiency bonus against a DC13 + special creature modifiers (if any). A scout may gain additional bonuses to their roll. If the scout succeeds with d20 roll they find the ambush and make safely report back. If they fail they find nothing and the ambushers may choose to attack the scout.

This is just an idea that I'm trying to refine in order to remove perception entirely, making investigation skill the primary active search skill.

It sounds good....

But an 11th level rogue get reliable talent and that is only +10.

[RickAllison]

In terms of the ability to use for initiative, I liked the one they used for Star Wars from FFG. You had Vigilance, which was based off the Wisdom equivalent of Willpower, which was used when you were otherwise caught off-guard and so represented your general ability to "keep your head on a swivel" and stay level-headed when you don't know what to expect. It was about remaining in a state of mind to react to danger and adjust when you don't know the odds. It also had Cool, based off the Charisma equivalent of Presence, which acted off the ability to work over your nerves when you know what's coming, like when setting an ambush.

Dexterity adding to it is for the raw ability to react faster like how an acrobat rapidly corrects for imbalances. If you wanted to do something like that, I would say make it a feat. Sets up a cost so that the poor Strength-based people don't feel left out for being the one group that can't have their primary combat stat be their initiative. I don't like it, because it seems like it goes back to 4e and making the classes less differentiated.

[Garfunion]

It sounds good....

But an 11th level rogue get reliable talent and that is only +10.

After reading reliable talent, it only works on ability checks. Scouting isn't an ability check

[Specter]

I disagree with INT or CHA as initiative mods. Being booksmart or pretty has nothing to do with reacting quickly in the face of danger.

[Garfunion]

I disagree with INT or CHA as initiative mods. Being booksmart or pretty has nothing to do with reacting quickly in the face of danger.

Intelligence: so there is no such thing as tactical combat? or "I think everything is a trap. That is why I'm still alive".

Charisma: the goddess of luck really likes me or "Luck will often save a man, if his courage holds".

[DanyBallon]

I disagree with INT or CHA as initiative mods. Being booksmart or pretty has nothing to do with reacting quickly in the face of danger.

Intelligence, is quick thinking, fast assesment of the situation. Charisma, might be just sheer luck.

[RickAllison]

I disagree with INT or CHA as initiative mods. Being booksmart or pretty has nothing to do with reacting quickly in the face of danger.


Intelligence: so there is no such thing as tactical combat? or "I think everything is a trap. That is why I'm still alive".

Charisma: the goddess of luck really likes me or "Luck will often save a man, if his courage holds".


Intelligence, is quick thinking, fast assesment of the situation. Charisma, might be just sheer luck.

I don't think intelligence has to do with anything once crap hits the fan. Why should the genius processing opportunities and vulnerabilities rapidly operate faster than the barbarian who sees an Orc and charges without even needing to think? Assessing is great for sizing up complicated opponents to spot weaknesses, but you have to consider people like the Barbarian who sees a threat and doesn't even consider them. He doesn't think, he just reacts. Intelligence is related to reaction time to some extent, but it is difficult to justify that someone who is actually processing the battlefield is going to act faster than the person with raw speed.

Which actually brings up a good point, Strength should be a far better judge of initiative anyway! Reacting is all about course-correcting, course-correcting is about accelerating, accelerating is all about strength.

[DivisibleByZero]

Just make it a flat d20 roll, no modification

[Garfunion]

I don't think intelligence has to do with anything once crap hits the fan. Why should the genius processing opportunities and vulnerabilities rapidly operate faster than the barbarian who sees an Orc and charges without even needing to think? Assessing is great for sizing up complicated opponents to spot weaknesses, but you have to consider people like the Barbarian who sees a threat and doesn't even consider them. He doesn't think, he just reacts. Intelligence is related to reaction time to some extent, but it is difficult to justify that someone who is actually processing the battlefield is going to act faster than the person with raw speed.

Which actually brings up a good point, Strength should be a far better judge of initiative anyway! Reacting is all about course-correcting, course-correcting is about accelerating, accelerating is all about strength.

Watch the movie Equilibrium It gives a great example on how intelligence can used to statistically study combat scenarios, allowing someone to properly plan for combat encounters.

[RickAllison]

Watch the movie Equilibrium It gives a great example on how intelligence can used to statistically study combat scenarios, allowing someone to properly plan for combat encounters.

Great, yeah, he can think faster. Doesn't change anything. Why should the person who can simply think faster be reacting faster than someone who isn't even bothering to think? As soon as the barbarian sees an opponent, the same moment when the Int guy can start calculating, he is already moving. Why is thinking faster better than not even bothering to think in the middle of combat?