Slightly Whimsical Question

[MrStabby]

How does water walk work on the sea? Treating the water as solid ground as the spell suggests would make it like trying to walk through a high magnitude earthquake. It seems like it would be hard to stand, let alone move.

Even this isn't worrying about how slippy water is and the difficulty of climbing up a wave peak.

[Aett_Thorn]

Only really a problem near shore, where the waves are breaking. Otherwise, it would be similar to walking through rolling hills. Even if you stood still, I'd say that you'd just rise and fall with the waves.

If you're trying to walk through the break point, well then you're just going to have to parkour that a bit.

[Arial Black]

Treat rough conditions as Difficult Terrain, tidal waves as Impassible.

[Naanomi]

Like walking across a water bed, challenging and takes practice but not impossible. Acrobatics skill might help

[Plaguescarred]

I'd treat a solid ground moving sea as difficult terrain with a serie of Athletics checks to avoid getting knocked prone, suffer exhaustion or something as it must be risky and tiresome to maneuver.

[CaptainSarathai]

Well, remember that in a wave, the water does not move laterally, it only moves up and down; it is exactly like "THE wave" at a sporting event. It looks like it's moving, but the individual people are staying at their seat.

Waves out at sea also don't really crest over unless they hit something below the surface or the wind is really crazy - the wave form has to be slowing down so that it catches up to itself. Far out to sea, what you view as violently crashing waves are shore are just big, lazy swells. It would be like walking on hills or on the rocking deck of a boat.

The only other majlr consideration would be currents. However, if you can water-walk a fast flowing river, water-walking a current shouldn't be much different.

[Maxilian]

I'd treat a solid ground moving sea as difficult terrain with a serie of Athletics checks to avoid getting knocked prone, suffer exhaustion or something as it must be risky and tiresome to maneuver.

Exhaustion? why? that's way too much of a problem... ughh


I would just crawl around if i were one of your players (just needed at the shore in the end)

[Segev]

It's also worth noting that surfing is actually moving you along the water. It's not the water moving with you. Picture, again, "the wave" at a sporting event. Now have each person holding part of a large ribbon that winds around the stadium. If a ball is placed on this ribbon, it will roll down hill as "the wave" approaches, causing the ribbon it's resting on to slope. If "the wave" moves at about the same speed that the ball is rolling down hill, the hill's height will remain constant underneath it as it keeps being lifted back up for every iota of downward motion, translating it all into lateral motion.

So water walkers could surf, skidding down hill on their feet as waves elevated behind them.

[Plaguescarred]

Exhaustion? why? that's way too much of a problem... ughh


I would just crawn around if i were one of your players (just needed at the shore in the end)Because navigating moving sea is very taxing? a level of exhaustion is not that terrible though.

[Maxilian]

Because navigating moving sea is very taxing? a level of exhaustion is not that terrible though.

But you're walking, its not like your swimming, that's taxing, also, that's basically as uncomfortable as walking in a "electrical walkway" that act like an "electrical escalator" in the wrong way, its just uncomfortable and you will take longer to get... well... anywhere but exhaustion?

Note: 1 point of exhaustion is disadvantage on all the ability checks, that's quite though just for walking in a difficult terrain.

[MrStabby]

Well, remember that in a wave, the water does not move laterally, it only moves up and down; it is exactly like "THE wave" at a sporting event. It looks like it's moving, but the individual people are staying at their seat.

Waves out at sea also don't really crest over unless they hit something below the surface or the wind is really crazy - the wave form has to be slowing down so that it catches up to itself. Far out to sea, what you view as violently crashing waves are shore are just big, lazy swells. It would be like walking on hills or on the rocking deck of a boat.

The only other majlr consideration would be currents. However, if you can water-walk a fast flowing river, water-walking a current shouldn't be much different.

This was exactly why I made the analogy to surface waves in an earthquake where their displacement is perpendicular to the motion of travel. Sure the surface underneath you isn't moving backwards or forwards at all but it is accelerating up and down quite a bit. Waling on the surface there would be even tougher than walking on the deck of a very very small boat in that swell.

Cresting waves are a separate issue entirely, but at the point where waves break PCs could just sing and walk ashore anyway so I was less worried about these.

[Maxilian]

This was exactly why I made the analogy to surface waves in an earthquake where their displacement is perpendicular to the motion of travel. Sure the surface underneath you isn't moving backwards or forwards at all but it is accelerating up and down quite a bit. Waling on the surface there would be even tougher than walking on the deck of a very very small boat in that swell.

Cresting waves are a separate issue entirely, but at the point where waves break PCs could just sing and walk ashore anyway so I was less worried about these.

But that means just because of the way it is, you could easily walk around in a tip-toe jump style walk (cause you don't have the limitation of space of a small boat, it will just make it hard for you to stand still in an area.)

[Plaguescarred]

But you're walking, its not like your swimming, that's taxing, also, that's basically as uncomfortable as walking in a "electrical walkway" that act like an "electrical escalator" in the wrong way, its just uncomfortable and you will take longer to get... well... anywhere but exhaustion>Just walk an electrical escalator the wrong way for 10 minutes and tell me how exhausted you are and now imagine walking some time on a ground that's both unstable and wilder. It's not just walking an electrical escalator the wrong way it's much more unstable with waves pushing and rocking you as you resist to maintain your balance. If you think it's as streneous as walking on a flat surface by all means do it in your campaign. But i know i wouldn't treat it as easy in my campaign and doing it over a lenght of time could cause exhaustion.

[Maxilian]

Just walk an electrical escalator the wrong way for 10 minutes and tell me how exhausted

I....... have done it, sadly, i'm quite childish sometimes, and no, its not exhausting, to the point that i will be way too exhausted to do anything else (1 exhaustion point is Disadv on every ability check), i would agree that this will mean that the user speed is reduced to half (because you're being slowed down by the waves, and the effort you will use to move 30, is the effort you will use to move 15)



you are and now imagine walking some time on a ground that's both unstable and wilder. It's not just walking an electrical escalator the wrong way it's much more unstable with waves pushing and rocking you as you resist to maintain your balance. If you think it's as streneous as walking on a flat surface by all means do it in your campaign. But i know i wouldn't treat it as easy in my campaign and doing it over a lenght of time could cause exhaustion.

I did not said is like walking in a flat-moving surface, that's why i even mentioned the escalator, it will indeed be hard for the user to maintain balance, but not that you need that much to walk in some surfaces, you just need to walk in a tip-toe jump style (Have you seen an overly exited kid?)

Note: I know that after doing a lenght of a time it could be exhausting, that's why i think it should just affect movement (and treat it like it), cut it in half and just like walking for a long time, you will also get exhausted (and will also be a really uncomfortable place to have a short rest)

Note2: Also this doesn't apply in general to the whole ocean, its not like it is as chaotic in the open sea (unless the enviroment says otherwise -AKA climate-)

[Plaguescarred]

I....... have done it, sadly, i'm quite childish sometimes, and no, its not exhausting, to the point that i will be way too exhausted to do anything else (1 exhaustion point is Disadv on every ability check), i would agree that this will mean that the user speed is reduced to half (because you're being slowed down by the waves, and the effort you will use to move 30, is the effort you will use to move 15)Walking stairs for 10 minutes may not be exhausting for you, but it is for most people i know.

Also a level of exhaustion doesn't leave you too exhausted to do anything else it's not as dramatic as you want to make it sound you can do pretty much everything but you will have a harder time doing stuff involving an ability check that's all. You're here trying to convince us that a level of exhaustion makes you incapacitated when it's not the case.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Walking stairs for 10 minutes may not be exhausting for you, but it is for most people i know.

Also a level of exhaustion doesn't leave you too exhausted to do anything else it's not as dramatic as you want to make it sound you can do pretty much everything but you will have a harder time doing stuff involving an ability check that's all. You're here trying to convince us that a level of exhaustion makes you incapacitated when it's not the case.
PCs aren't most people though; given that I think most have a 12-14 Con, they're in exceptionally good shape even before you add rule-of-cool protection. Exhaustion is a big and long-lasting enough penalty that I don't think I'd assign it for a mildly-taxing-if-you-think-about-it challenge like water walking. Difficult terrain sounds about right, though, unless it's a very still or very choppy day.

[Maxilian]

Walking stairs for 10 minutes may not be exhausting for you, but it is for most people i know.

Also a level of exhaustion doesn't leave you too exhausted to do anything else it's not as dramatic as you want to make it sound you can do pretty much everything but you will have a harder time doing stuff involving an ability check that's all. You're here trying to convince us that a level of exhaustion makes you incapacitated when it's not the case.

Its not incapacitated, but why would that give me an disadvantage on looking around for things, or anything like that for that matter, when you are basically just walking on difficult terrain (its indeed harder, and you will get tired faster, that's where the Exhaustion based on movement apply)

[Plaguescarred]

PCs aren't most people though; given that I think most have a 12-14 Con, they're in exceptionally good shape even before you add rule-of-cool protection. Exhaustion is a big and long-lasting enough penalty that I don't think I'd assign it for a mildly-taxing-if-you-think-about-it challenge like water walking. Difficult terrain sounds about right, though, unless it's a very still or very choppy day.

I believe sea walking on calm water over short distance would be fine as difficult terrain only, but it would be more exhausting risk tripping etc.. to sea walk over a lenght of time or during a storm exhaustion serves exactly that i don't know why people argue with my opinion so much you guys are all free to handle it the way you want.

[Plaguescarred]

Its not incapacitated, but why would that give me an disadvantage on looking around for things, or anything like that for that matter, when you are basically just walking on difficult terrain (its indeed harder, and you will get tired faster, that's where the Exhaustion based on movement apply)Difficult Terrain doesn't necessarily mean it's exhaustive, just that it's difficult or time consuming to maneuver.

You would have some disadvantage from the exhaustion having fought hard to keep your balance and try to move along during a lenght of time or on a more agitated water rocking!

[RickAllison]

Difficult Terrain doesn't necessarily mean it's exhaustive, just that it's difficult or time consuming to maneuver.

You would have some disadvantage from the exhaustion having fought hard to keep your balance and try to move along during a lenght of time or on a more agitated water rocking!

Like blazing a new trail, or walking through a trapped dungeon!

[Plaguescarred]

YMMV but i would certainly not argue with my DM if he would give my character a check to possibly suffer a level of ehaustion after trailblazing for a few hours in dense foliage as it's can be quite exhausting indeed!

[Grod_The_Giant]

YMMV but i would certainly not argue with my DM if he would give my character a check to possibly suffer a level of ehaustion after trailblazing for a few hours in dense foliage as it's can be quite exhausting indeed!
The normal rules for Forced Marching should cover this just fine, honestly.

[Plaguescarred]

The normal rules for Forced Marching should cover this just fine, honestly.Not really Forced Marching is about continuing walking for more than 8 hours.

Trailblazing is much more exhausting as in additional to walking, but have to chop your way through dense foliage to clear a pathway.

[RickAllison]

Not really Forced Marching is about continuing walking for more than 8 hours.

Trailblazing is much more exhausting as in additional to walking, but have to chop your way through dense foliage to clear a pathway.

Indeed, it was more a point that if you are going to penalize that method of travel, you need to be aware of other methods that are just as or more exhausting and whether you would do the same to those. Running through a dungeon while constantly checking for traps and enemies would be far more exhausting, including mentally.

Now sanity? Water-walking should tank that! Puddles of water should inspire intense paranoia, but an ocean should be ground for hourly checks!

[Sigreid]

In one of the earlier editions they actually specified that the water calmed to a normal surface where the person under the influence was, as I recall. I guess I just assumed that was still in play.