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TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 10:22 AM
Okay, so if you saw any of my recent threads for a Cleric I'm working on, I've come around to looking at the ScM (when initially I considered the Shadow Adept)...

Now I've been perusing threads all over the web trying to figure out the tricks to make an effective Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage, and it's all relatively confusing. For instance, someone mentions Heighten, or DMM--even Earth Spell, and then go off a little about why it works/is so cool, etc.

For the sake of clarity, and show people [like me] who just don't get it, I'm trying to compile all the information I can about how to make one [Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage], from lv. 1 - 20 (+).

Now this includes what feats to add, when and why, how they work alone and together; what spells to take, how to use them properly with feat selection; equipment; domains...

I see a lot of information, and in many places. But I don't really know how to put it all together, or entirely get how it works.

Note: Race-wise, preferably Human for the build.

If you guys could help me, I think this would help a lot of other prospective Shadowcraft Mages out there with the religious bent, myself included. Please and thank you in advance!

Venger
2016-10-21, 10:36 AM
Is there a reason you want to stick to human? shadowcraft magi have to be gnomes, so human means you're trading 3 casting levels for the extra feat.

erok0809
2016-10-21, 10:41 AM
Is there a reason you want to stick to human? shadowcraft magi have to be gnomes, so human means you're trading 3 casting levels for the extra feat.

If the DM allows it, Shadowcraft Mage has the non-gnome illusionist cabal option, so they don't need to take Stoneblessed to count as a gnome for the class.

Venger
2016-10-21, 10:45 AM
If the DM allows it, Shadowcraft Mage has the non-gnome illusionist cabal option, so they don't need to take Stoneblessed to count as a gnome for the class.

Certainly true. It wasn't mentioned so I didn't assume, but if that's at play then you might as well roll human.

changeling with racial emulation also gets in without burning a class level, even if you're down 2 feats from a human.

Rijan_Sai
2016-10-21, 11:12 AM
I posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21320135&postcount=5) on another thread; highly recommended reading! (Also gives at least one possible Cleric build.)

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 11:17 AM
If the DM allows it, Shadowcraft Mage has the non-gnome illusionist cabal option, so they don't need to take Stoneblessed to count as a gnome for the class.


Certainly true. It wasn't mentioned so I didn't assume, but if that's at play then you might as well roll human.

changeling with racial emulation also gets in without burning a class level, even if you're down 2 feats from a human.

My apologies, Venger. When I said human, I did forget to mention that I was going with the Cabal adaptation.

Sorry for the confusion! :)

So, any takers? The handbooks are all nice and fine, but they just point out stuff they assume everyone knows of/how to do. I think I'm saying we need an idiot's guide on how to build a Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage out of a Human...

I'd really like to know, because I (and possibly others, who also don't have the know-how) would love to learn the tricks.

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 11:18 AM
I posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21320135&postcount=5) on another thread; highly recommended reading! (Also gives at least one possible Cleric build.)

I don't know why, but your link sent me to a blank white page..?

erok0809
2016-10-21, 11:32 AM
I don't know why, but your link sent me to a blank white page..?

"Show single post" links don't tend to work on mobile, if that's what you're using. If not that, then I'm not sure.

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 11:45 AM
"Show single post" links don't tend to work on mobile, if that's what you're using. If not that, then I'm not sure.

Mmyeah. I'm always on mobile. Hm.

erok0809
2016-10-21, 12:03 PM
Required Reading (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=16433.0)

(There's also this one (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0), which is essentially the same thing, but the first one seems to have more information.)

Welcome to the Killer Gnome club!

This is the post he linked to, if it helps you.

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 12:26 PM
Ah, thank you.

Actually, this is one of the pages I was referring to. It is written under the assumption we all get what's written down, and frankly I do not. :/

Venger
2016-10-21, 02:27 PM
Ah, thank you.

Actually, this is one of the pages I was referring to. It is written under the assumption we all get what's written down, and frankly I do not. :/

What is it there you don't understand? we'd be happy to explain it.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-10-21, 02:57 PM
The combination is as follows:
- Shadowcraft Mages get the ability to emulate conjuration (summoning or creation) and evocation spells by using [figment]-descriptor illusions (which become [shadow]), similar to the shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells.
- The maximum level of the spell to be emulated is one lower than the level of the illusion used.
- The 'reality', that is, percent effectiveness of the spell, also depends on the level of the illusion used.
- The list of spells mentioned in the SCM's ability does not include ninth-level spells, let alone tenth-level spells. As such, you can't emulate high-level spells.
- Heighten Spell allows you to increase the effective level of a spell, bypassing the restricted number of figment spells.
- Earth Spell allows you to Heighten a spell by one more than you normally could. For example, if you use a sixth-level spell slot to cast a fifth-level spell, Heightened by one, Earth Spell turns it into a seventh-level spell. This allows you to Heighten a spell to tenth level, allowing the emulation of on-level spells (instead of spells one level lower), including ninth-level spells.

Used together, a SCM can emulate high-level spells that are very real, meaning they are very likely to work, even if they are recognized as illusions.

Rebel7284
2016-10-21, 03:44 PM
I am glad that my suggestion of Shadowcraft Mage resonated with you. It's such a fun class!

There are two concerns when it comes to Shadowcraft Mage as a cleric.
1. Making sure you meet the entry requirements in the least painful way.
2. Making sure you can get the most mileage out of Shadow Illusion.

Requirements
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks , Hide 4 ranks
Feats: Spell Focus (illusion)
Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher.

Skills: The skills are both cross class. While that's annoying, the four ranks are pretty easy to get even cross class. If you take a dip beforehand, such as one level of Shadow Adept or(if your alignment works here) Church Inquisitor, you may be able to, save yourself a few skill points! Marginal difference, but good to keep in mind.
Feats: Spell Focus (illusion) is simple enough to take.
Spells: Your choice of Shadow domain makes this simpler. Normally clerics needs to jump through hoops, such as Heighten Spell shenanigans mentioned below in order to get a 4th level Shadow spell.

Shadow Illusion
Shadow Illusion (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a shadowcraft mage is able to infuse some of her figments (see the list below) with material from the Plane of Shadow, making them partially real. The subschool of these spells changes from figment to shadow. A shadowcraft mage can use the altered spell to mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation), or evocation spell at least one level lower than the illusion spell. The altered spell functions identically to the shadow conjuration or shadow evocation spell, except that the spell's strength equals 10% per level of the figment spell used. For example, a shadowcraft mage who uses silent image to create an acid splash would deal 10% of the normal damage to a creature that succeeds on its Will save to disbelieve the shadow. If she used programmed image to mimic summon monster V, the creature would have 60% of the hit points of a normal creature of its kind, and its damage would be 60% normal against a creature that succeeds on its Will save to disbelieve. A shadowcraft mage can apply shadow illusion to any of the following figment spells: silent image, minor image, major image, persistent image, and programmed image.

Emphasis is mine.

First of all, we can see that the details of what the original spell is/does, does not matter. All that matters is the level of that spell. Second, we can only modify that short list of spells, but none of them are on the cleric list by default! Also, none of them are higher than 6th level, so we would not be able to emulate Sorcerer/Wizard spells higher than 5th level!

Heighten Spell feat solves some of those problems!

Heighten Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.

So if we have the Heighten Spell feat, we can chose ONE of those spells to obtain, typically Silent Image, and then memorize a bunch of heightened Silent Images and convert those slots using Shadow Illusion eventually even getting Sorcerer/Wizard spells up to level 8.

Because Heighten spell is actually increasing the spell level, a cleric without the Shadow domain can qualify for Shadowcraft Mage by taking a lower level shadow spell, such as Dark Way, and Heightening it to 4th level. Many Dungeon Masters would agree that if you're walking around with something that counts for "all effects" like a 4th level Shadow Spell, you indeed qualify as being able to cast 4th level Shadow spells.

Other feats can make this approach even better. Earth Spell both auto-increases the heightened spell's level by one AND gives you a huge caster level boost. Effectively instead of casting the emulated spells of one level lower, you now can now convert to Sorcerer/Wizard spells of the same level as the converted slot. This means that as long as you're standing on earth/unworked stone, you can eventually get 9th level Sorcerer/Wizard spells too!
Residual Magic can let you re-use heighten on another spell for free.

This becomes a little bit silly if you use ways to add free metamagic. Divine Metamagic allows you to use turn/rebuke undead attempts instead of using a higher level slot for a single metamagic feat. In this case, you would chose Heighten Spell. Spending 9 turn attempts to make a level one silent image count as a ninth level spell suddenly means that you are emulating Sorcerer/Wizard spells significantly above your level (probably only once or twice a day, still). You could also use this to enter the class early because "at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher." is easy when you can cast spells of any level up to 9th. Talk to your DM before using Divine Metamagic[Heighten Spell] or any other way to ignore metamagic costs.

Back to non-silly considerations:
The best way to get Silent Image on your list of spells is probably the Illusion Domain. If you are willing to trade Pestilence for Illusion, that would be optimal, otherwise you can do it with the Contemplative dip you mentioned before. There are a few other domains, but +1 caster level is really good.

Prestige Classes:
Shadowcrafter and Shadow Adept are both good. Both cost a feat though. Whether you want the class skills and the three useful feats from Shadow Adept or the reality boost to your main class feature from Shadowcrafter, it's all good.

There are a couple of things to discuss with your DM about Shadow Conjuration/Evocation that is not well covered by the rules.
- What does it mean for a buff such as Mage Armor to be partially real. Do enemies get to make Will saves to ignore it? If yes, what counts as an interaction? How about contingency?
- Do you automatically disbelief your own spells? Can you chose not to to get their full effect?

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-21, 05:55 PM
The combination is as follows:
- Shadowcraft Mages get the ability to emulate conjuration (summoning or creation) and evocation spells by using [figment]-descriptor illusions (which become [shadow]), similar to the shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells.
- The maximum level of the spell to be emulated is one lower than the level of the illusion used.
- The 'reality', that is, percent effectiveness of the spell, also depends on the level of the illusion used.
- The list of spells mentioned in the SCM's ability does not include ninth-level spells, let alone tenth-level spells. As such, you can't emulate high-level spells.
- Heighten Spell allows you to increase the effective level of a spell, bypassing the restricted number of figment spells.
- Earth Spell allows you to Heighten a spell by one more than you normally could. For example, if you use a sixth-level spell slot to cast a fifth-level spell, Heightened by one, Earth Spell turns it into a seventh-level spell. This allows you to Heighten a spell to tenth level, allowing the emulation of on-level spells (instead of spells one level lower), including ninth-level spells.

Used together, a SCM can emulate high-level spells that are very real, meaning they are very likely to work, even if they are recognized as illusions.

This is very thorough, thank you for the input!


I am glad that my suggestion of Shadowcraft Mage resonated with you. It's such a fun class!

It really did. I looked it over and thought, yes, this is what I want for my Priestess of Umbra.

I'll just mention this, even if I get hell for it: I thought about going this route not simply because of the deity, but ironically enough because of the character Ysuran Aoundril, from Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II; Ysuran was a Moon Elf Necromancer/Shadow Adept, and rather inspiring.


There are two concerns when it comes to Shadowcraft Mage as a cleric.
1. Making sure you meet the entry requirements in the least painful way.
2. Making sure you can get the most mileage out of Shadow Illusion.

Requirements
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks , Hide 4 ranks
Feats: Spell Focus (illusion)
Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher.

Skills: The skills are both cross class. While that's annoying, the four ranks are pretty easy to get even cross class. If you take a dip beforehand, such as one level of Shadow Adept or(if your alignment works here) Church Inquisitor, you may be able to, save yourself a few skill points! Marginal difference, but good to keep in mind.

As I'm working on the Cleric from lv 1 +, I'd considered taking Church Inquisitor, as stated in the other thread. I really like the flavor.

Of course, how many levels she'll dip into that I'm not sure.


Feats: Spell Focus (illusion) is simple enough to take.
Spells: Your choice of Shadow domain makes this simpler. Normally clerics needs to jump through hoops, such as Heighten Spell shenanigans mentioned below in order to get a 4th level Shadow spell.

And to be honest, I don't like jumping through many hoops. It makes me feel like a particular player I used to have in my groups.

To be fair, he was trying to justify each of his characters being like Zarus, and would abuse any loopholes he could find.


Shadow Illusion
Shadow Illusion (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a shadowcraft mage is able to infuse some of her figments (see the list below) with material from the Plane of Shadow, making them partially real. The subschool of these spells changes from figment to shadow. A shadowcraft mage can use the altered spell to mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning), conjuration (creation), or evocation spell at least one level lower than the illusion spell. The altered spell functions identically to the shadow conjuration or shadow evocation spell, except that the spell's strength equals 10% per level of the figment spell used. For example, a shadowcraft mage who uses silent image to create an acid splash would deal 10% of the normal damage to a creature that succeeds on its Will save to disbelieve the shadow. If she used programmed image to mimic summon monster V, the creature would have 60% of the hit points of a normal creature of its kind, and its damage would be 60% normal against a creature that succeeds on its Will save to disbelieve. A shadowcraft mage can apply shadow illusion to any of the following figment spells: silent image, minor image, major image, persistent image, and programmed image.

Emphasis is mine.

First of all, we can see that the details of what the original spell is/does, does not matter. All that matters is the level of that spell. Second, we can only modify that short list of spells, but none of them are on the cleric list by default! Also, none of them are higher than 6th level, so we would not be able to emulate Sorcerer/Wizard spells higher than 5th level!

Heighten Spell feat solves some of those problems!

Heighten Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.

So if we have the Heighten Spell feat, we can chose ONE of those spells to obtain, typically Silent Image, and then memorize a bunch of heightened Silent Images and convert those slots using Shadow Illusion eventually even getting Sorcerer/Wizard spells up to level 8.

Last paragraph--eventually getting Spells up to 8?


Because Heighten spell is actually increasing the spell level, a cleric without the Shadow domain can qualify for Shadowcraft Mage by taking a lower level shadow spell, such as Dark Way, and Heightening it to 4th level. Many Dungeon Masters would agree that if you're walking around with something that counts for "all effects" like a 4th level Shadow Spell, you indeed qualify as being able to cast 4th level Shadow spells.

Other feats can make this approach even better. Earth Spell both auto-increases the heightened spell's level by one AND gives you a huge caster level boost. Effectively instead of casting the emulated spells of one level lower, you now can now convert to Sorcerer/Wizard spells of the same level as the converted slot. This means that as long as you're standing on earth/unworked stone, you can eventually get 9th level Sorcerer/Wizard spells too!
Residual Magic can let you re-use heighten on another spell for free.

So from level 1 and up, what order would I take these feats?


This becomes a little bit silly if you use ways to add free metamagic. Divine Metamagic allows you to use turn/rebuke undead attempts instead of using a higher level slot for a single metamagic feat. In this case, you would chose Heighten Spell. Spending 9 turn attempts to make a level one silent image count as a ninth level spell suddenly means that you are emulating Sorcerer/Wizard spells significantly above your level (probably only once or twice a day, still). You could also use this to enter the class early because "at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher." is easy when you can cast spells of any level up to 9th. Talk to your DM before using Divine Metamagic[Heighten Spell] or any other way to ignore metamagic costs.

I have an awesome DM, for sure...this should be neat.


Back to non-silly considerations:
The best way to get Silent Image on your list of spells is probably the Illusion Domain. If you are willing to trade Pestilence for Illusion, that would be optimal, otherwise you can do it with the Contemplative dip you mentioned before. There are a few other domains, but +1 caster level is really good.

Maybe the DM will allow me to just take Pestilence with Contemplative later or something. The only reason Eleisa's got it now is due to being resurrected as the Shadow's Herald of Pestilence.


Prestige Classes:
Shadowcrafter and Shadow Adept are both good. Both cost a feat though. Whether you want the class skills and the three useful feats from Shadow Adept or the reality boost to your main class feature from Shadowcrafter, it's all good.

So what levels would be best to take each at? I've got Cleric, Church Inquisitor, Shadowcraft Mage, Contemplative and your two other suggestions to put in order.


There are a couple of things to discuss with your DM about Shadow Conjuration/Evocation that is not well covered by the rules.
- What does it mean for a buff such as Mage Armor to be partially real. Do enemies get to make Will saves to ignore it? If yes, what counts as an interaction? How about contingency?
- Do you automatically disbelief your own spells? Can you chose not to to get their full effect?

I'll actually have to get back to you with answers for those. But seeing as Midnight (the name mortals give the Goddess) is the DM's personal favorite, his interpretations will favor the illusionists and shadowmancers in all of us.

But like I said, I'll ask and see what he thinks.

We've got an Ysuran-like chap in our group, too. Who's going solely Necromancer/Shadow Adept (ban Evocation and Enchantment). (Or, as the Knight-Paladin suggested, EGW/Shadow Adept).

Rebel7284
2016-10-21, 11:23 PM
Accidentally closed the tab and destroyed a super long post.
More concise version below:

- What I meant by 8th level spells eventually was that a Shadowcraft Mage preparing Silent Image in a 9th level slot with Heighten Spell will then be able to convert it to a Sorcerer/Wizard Conjuration/Evocation spell up to 8th level. This is of course without accounting for any other feats.

- There are many ways to build this type of character, it really depends on what you prefer. It's going to be powerful anyway.

---- builds ----
DMM Protige
Cloistered Cleric 3/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Dread Necromancer 1/Shadowcraft Mage +2/Shadowcrafter 10
1. Spell Focus
H. Heighten Spell
3. DMM Heighten
6. Greater Spell Focus
9+ Either All Extra Turning from now on or Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Residual Magic

Get turn undead from cleric and rebuke undead from Dread Necromancer. Early entry and double turning pool. Casts 8th level spells at character level 6. Build doesn't really matter much after that, you can work toward upgrading to 9s or getting more and more 8s.

Realest Shadowcrafter
Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Shadowcrafter 2/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Contemplative 1/Shadowcrafter +7
1. Spell Focus
H. Heighten Spell
3. Greater Spell Focus
6. Earth Sense
9. Earth Spell
12. Residual Magic
15. Free
18. Free

Gives up Divine Metamagic (ab)use and instead gets Earth Spell before it's needed and also has the best reality percentages, at least until Contemplative 1 pushes it back one level.

Shadow Weave Master
Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3/Shadow Adept 1/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Contemplative 1/Shadowcraft Mage +2/Contemplative +5/X 2
1. Spell Focus
H. Heighten Spell
3. Shadow Weave Magic
6. DMM Heighten
9. Earth Sense
12. Earth Spell
15. Residual Magic
18. Free

Back to using DMM, but not using it for early entry. A second domain from Contemplative could be nice, depending on your choices. Make sure Church Inquisitor's third level ability doesn't cause you to disbelief your own buffs, can be very flavorful otherwise.

In all cases, you should use Spontaneous Domain Summoning from PHB2 to be able to cast Silent Image spontaneously instead of cure/inflict.

Anyway, you can certainly mix and match the different components of these builds.

If you can get extra feats from Unearthed Arcana flaws, you should totally go for it. As you can see, the builds do tend to be pretty feat hungy, often getting all the feats they want only by level 15.

danielxcutter
2016-10-22, 12:17 AM
- What does it mean for a buff such as Mage Armor to be partially real. Do enemies get to make Will saves to ignore it? If yes, what counts as an interaction? How about contingency?
- Do you automatically disbelief your own spells? Can you chose not to to get their full effect?

I heard that non-damaging effects don't work at all if they're disbelieved. Also, the guy who told me that said that when he plays a Shadowcraft Mage, he makes a compromise with his DM - quasireality caps at 100%, but once a spell hits 100% quasireality they function as real spells.

Rebel7284
2016-10-22, 12:41 AM
I heard that non-damaging effects don't work at all if they're disbelieved.

Ok, but who gets to disbelieve a 70% real Contingency?


Also, the guy who told me that said that when he plays a Shadowcraft Mage, he makes a compromise with his DM - quasireality caps at 100%, but once a spell hits 100% quasireality they function as real spells.

Seems like a reasonable house rule. Does make the ability more powerful if emulating SR:No spells.

danielxcutter
2016-10-22, 12:54 AM
Ok, but who gets to disbelieve a 70% real Contingency?

Uhhh... the caster, I think.:smallannoyed:

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-22, 09:35 AM
Rebel7284, thank you very much for the very in-depth work with these suggested builds!

They all seem to fit what I'm looking for, and I think I may be getting what's being said about them now.

So say we did go with flaws--would the feat selection change, as well as the order? What would I add?

Rebel7284
2016-10-22, 01:20 PM
In general, the feat order pretty much stays the same. Spell Focus, Heighten Spell, Earth Sense/Spell, Divine Metamagic(if allowed) all need to be taken as soon as possible. And of course you need any prerequisite feats to enter other prestige classes.

With flaws you could
- Take both Shadow Adept and Shadowcrafter as you now have the feats to get both requirements. Still probably only one level of Shadow Adept though, you don't get much after the initial three free feats.
- Put a stronger focus on metamagic with twin spell and quicken spell. Alternatively, Extend Spell and Persistent Spell. Works super great with Residual Magic.
- Take more general ridiculous spellcaster feats such as Craft Contingent Spell, Extraordinary Spell Aim, Reserves of Strength (the prerequisite Iron Will can be gotten from a magical location), etc.
- This requires changing your domains again, but Dweomerkeeper from the Complete Divine web enhancement can cast your spells as Supernatural Abilities a few times a day (no SR, can't be dispelled, no components, etc) and as a capstone lowers ALL metamagic costs by 1. You need an Item Creation Feat and Magical Training so there goes your two free feats. :)

Also, it occurs to me that anything with Circle Magic is probably a good class for Shadowcraft Mage due to being able to use participants for free heighten spell. Don't think any of the existing classes that grant that are compatible with your flavor though.

StreamOfTheSky
2016-10-22, 04:06 PM
My first ScM was cleric-based. Whisper Gnome (though regular or Forest Gnome is a better choice; my character was gestalt w/ ninja), Cloistered Cleric 7 entry into ScM.
He had Illusion and Shadow domains w/ the spontaneous domain spells variant for Illusion.

Feats, beyond the standard ones (Spell Focus (Illusion), Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell) were or (had he gotten higher level / more feats) would have been Residual Magic (this is amazing on a ScM), Divine Spell Power, and Extra Shadow Reality. Maybe Rapid Metamagic, if the full round action for applying metamagic to spontaneous silent images became an issue. There's really not a lot of room for feats on a ScM build... Arcane Thesis and Arcane Mastery are amazing choices but as a divine caster you sadly don't qualify.

Religious bent? Pick a god of shadows and/or illusion. I got to make up one for the campaign and worship him, but there's some out there already, I'm sure. I wanted mine b/c the god's backstory and dogma was what drove my character's motivations, more so than mechanical reasons.

Items: Empowered Spell Shard in MIC. Get one for Silent Image. Maybe get several (though it occupies the amulet slot, so you're probably putting your wisdom bonus there, too). Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (Tome of Magic) gives you the Dark template, which alone is well worth the item's price (22,000 gp, I think?), but specifically for you it is critical at higher levels. Dark template makes the plane of shadow your native plane, which is what you need for Planar Bubble (see below).

For spells...you're a cleric, you can just choose what you need each day. And with shadow illusion and spontaneous casting of silent image, you have whatever evocation, creation, or summoning spell you want on the fly. What really helps is to find good spells to mimic w/ silent image via shadow illusion:
Greater Mage Armor is good if you use a monk's belt or similar unarmored boost.
Contingency is obviously great, and at high levels you have things like Heal to apply to it.
Moonbow (Spell Compendium; SpC) combined w/ the empowered spell shard is a lot of damage.
The biggest standout I found was Create Magic Tattoo (SpC again). All-day buff that can give up to three different bonuses to each ally w/ multiple castings (I forget if you can chain spell it), most notably a +2 competence bonus to attack rolls or (once you hit CL 13+) +1 CL; normally it's unused b/c it has a material cost. But you don't care about such things.
Miracle: With some tricks, you can cast Miracle as a shadow illusion and avoid the costs. But this is horribly broken, I'd suggest restraining from doing so. It's not something you can pull off w/o specifically building for it, anyway.
Special note: While Forcecage is still a good spell to mimic, it's not nearly as good as the real version. Shadow evocation spells do nothing if the victim disbelieves them (contingency works b/c you can choose to fail your own will save), so it becomes a save-or-lose (if they can't teleport), which...is pretty typical at 7th level spells anyway. While as the actual spell is "no save, just lose" but costs a lot of money to use.

One spell that needs specific mention is Planar Bubble (SpC, 7th level). Combined w/ the collar (above), this will create a radius of the Plane of Shadow around you. This will freely maximize all your shadow spells. But more importantly...it will allow you to use them at all when visiting outer planes. Per Manual of the Planes (iirc), the Plane of Shadow is only coterminous or touching the Material, Ethereal, and Astral planes. Any others, it has no connection, and thus shadow spells are unusable on those planes! You invested so much of your character into using them, and planar travel tends to happen at high levels, so you want this ability to counter that restriction!

EDIT:

I heard that non-damaging effects don't work at all if they're disbelieved. Also, the guy who told me that said that when he plays a Shadowcraft Mage, he makes a compromise with his DM - quasireality caps at 100%, but once a spell hits 100% quasireality they function as real spells.



Seems like a reasonable house rule. Does make the ability more powerful if emulating SR:No spells.
I think daniel was referring to me, so I just want to clarify: the gentleman's agreement I ask for is that in exchange for capping quasi-reality at 100%, if a spell reaches 100% reality, it overrides the "shadow evocation clause" (which says if a creature disbelieves a nondamaging evocation effect, the spell has no effect at all). It does not include ignoring SR for mimicked spells that would do so, like most creation spells. If you want to do that, go for it, I think that's asking for a bit much, though.
I just thought it was stupid that someone could disbelieve my 100% real (or 120% real, or whatever) Forcecage and just walk out of it, and also thought it was silly to have a shadow spell be more powerful than the real version (barring empower and other metamagic to make it so). So it seemed like a fair compromise.

Also, in regards to mage armor, contingency, etc... the target (caster for the latter) is the only one who would get a save against those, which they can choose to fail. Attackers don't get to disbelieve your shadow mage armor anymore than a creature w/ SR gets to ignore the strength bonus you got from Bull's Strength.

Rebel7284
2016-10-22, 05:36 PM
Also, when I played a Shadowcraft Mage, here was the list of Sorcerer/Wizard spells I wrote down as potential targets for duplicating. For reference, my build was (as far as I remember)
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 3/Shadowcraft Mage 4

Shadow Illusion Duplicates
Blockade (CS)
Grease
Minor Orb of X (SpC)
Glitterdust
Web
Melf's Acid Arrow
Obscuring Mist
Caltrops (SpC)
Summon Monster [Any]
Sticky Floor (SpC)
Greater Mage Armor (SpC)
Bands Of Steel (SpC)
Caustic Smoke (CM)
Evard's Black Tentacle
Orb of X (SpC)
Solid Fog
Cloudkill
Wall of Stone/Fire/Ice/Force
Minor/Major Creation
Icelance (Spc)
Sonorous Hum (SpC)
Sound Lance (SpC)
Fireball
Scorching Ray
Chain/Magic Missiles
Mount
Unseen Servant
Floating Disk/Greater (SpC)
Summon Undead (1-5)
Summon Swarm
Darkness
Shatter
Gust of Wind
Flaming Sphere
Phantom Steed
Daylight
Wind Wall
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Fire Shield/Mass (SpC)
Cone of Cold
Sending
Blood Wind (SpC)
Guiding Light (SpC)
Corpse Candle (SpC)
Create Magic Tattoo (SpC)
Electric Loop (SpC)
Force Ladder (SpC)
Ethereal Chamber (SpC)
Servant Horde (SpC)
Regal Procession (SpC)
Acid Breath (SpC)
Capricious Zephir (SpC)
Blacklight (SpC)
Great Thunderclap (SpC)
ManyJaws (SpC)
Defenestrating Sphere (SpC)
Force Missles (SpC)
Forcewave (SpC)
Vortex of Teeth (SpC)
Thunderlance (SpC)
Wingbind (SpC)
Sword of Deception (SpC)
Earthbind/Wingbind (SpC)
Acid Sheath (SpC)
Wall of Limbs (SpC)
Fireburst/Greater (SpC)
Cacophonic Burst (SpC)
Cyclonic Blast (SpC)
Bigby's X Hand (PHBII)
Baleful Blink (PHBII)
Bleakness (PHBII)
Crushing Grip (PHBII)
Dawnburst (CM)
Seeking Ray (PHBII)
Frost Breath (SpC)
Ray of Ice (SpC)
Ray of the Python (PHBII)
Radiance (PHBII)
Slashing Dispel (PHBII)
Ghost Lantern (CM)

danielxcutter
2016-10-22, 09:00 PM
Also, when I played a Shadowcraft Mage, here was the list of Sorcerer/Wizard spells I wrote down as potential targets for duplicating. For reference, my build was (as far as I remember)
Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 3/Shadowcraft Mage 4

Shadow Illusion Duplicates
Blockade (CS)
Grease
Minor Orb of X (SpC)
Glitterdust
Web
Melf's Acid Arrow
Obscuring Mist
Caltrops (SpC)
Summon Monster [Any]
Sticky Floor (SpC)
Greater Mage Armor (SpC)
Bands Of Steel (SpC)
Caustic Smoke (CM)
Evard's Black Tentacle
Orb of X (SpC)
Solid Fog
Cloudkill
Wall of Stone/Fire/Ice/Force
Minor/Major Creation
Icelance (Spc)
Sonorous Hum (SpC)
Sound Lance (SpC)
Fireball
Scorching Ray
Chain/Magic Missiles
Mount
Unseen Servant
Floating Disk/Greater (SpC)
Summon Undead (1-5)
Summon Swarm
Darkness
Shatter
Gust of Wind
Flaming Sphere
Phantom Steed
Daylight
Wind Wall
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Fire Shield/Mass (SpC)
Cone of Cold
Sending
Blood Wind (SpC)
Guiding Light (SpC)
Corpse Candle (SpC)
Create Magic Tattoo (SpC)
Electric Loop (SpC)
Force Ladder (SpC)
Ethereal Chamber (SpC)
Servant Horde (SpC)
Regal Procession (SpC)
Acid Breath (SpC)
Capricious Zephir (SpC)
Blacklight (SpC)
Great Thunderclap (SpC)
ManyJaws (SpC)
Defenestrating Sphere (SpC)
Force Missles (SpC)
Forcewave (SpC)
Vortex of Teeth (SpC)
Thunderlance (SpC)
Wingbind (SpC)
Sword of Deception (SpC)
Earthbind/Wingbind (SpC)
Acid Sheath (SpC)
Wall of Limbs (SpC)
Fireburst/Greater (SpC)
Cacophonic Burst (SpC)
Cyclonic Blast (SpC)
Bigby's X Hand (PHBII)
Baleful Blink (PHBII)
Bleakness (PHBII)
Crushing Grip (PHBII)
Dawnburst (CM)
Seeking Ray (PHBII)
Frost Breath (SpC)
Ray of Ice (SpC)
Ray of the Python (PHBII)
Radiance (PHBII)
Slashing Dispel (PHBII)
Ghost Lantern (CM)

Hmmm, many of these spells could also work for a Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster/Spellwarp Sniper I'm working on. I presume you won't mind me using them.

Rebel7284
2016-10-23, 10:10 PM
Go ahead. Note that this list doesn't include many great spells from other school that I was using.

StreamOfTheSky
2016-10-24, 05:58 PM
I had some spells picked out to mimic as well, some based around the fact I'd have sneak attack damage. Some other good choices:

Persistent Blade: Leave a foe flanked for round/level
Combust: Just a really high amount of melee damage as a touch attack.
Scintillating Sphere: It's an electric version of fireball. Honestly not sure if you can apply energy sub. to shadow illusion, so having spells of different energy types as options is useful.
Moonbow: Can get pretty obscene with metamagic boosts. As I said before, great with an Empowered Spell Shard for Silent Image.
Contingency: Nice for anyone, especially people w/ access to spells like Heal.

The list already has a lot of my top picks (Create Magic Tattoo, Greater Mage Armor, Greater Fireburst, Thunderlance, and Fireball).

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-28, 07:15 AM
Would the Shadow Weave Master build be a better: Offensive Caster, Summoner or Necromancer?

I'm struggling on these three now, but as you can see I've selected the third build for Eleisa. As the Herald of Pestilence for the Shadow Goddess, I think I can make a pretty nasty Necromancer--especially if I take Fell Animate by using flaws*, too.

*as per the rules, we're allowed two max, unless the DM agrees something in-game calls for a third, and only a single third flaw.

I've already been given the option of starting her out with three (two from the start and one immediately after her "Resurrection" by the Shadow). So maybe Fell Animate..?

Rebel7284
2016-10-28, 12:30 PM
I don't like massive zombie armies due to the way the can slow combat, but if you want to go that way, I will point out that without DMM using your turn/rebuke attempts, you can just Animate Dead and then Rebuke without wasting a feat slot. If you do take DMM, Fell Animate becomes a bit better. Possibly difficult to use with the 3 level adjustment, but eh?

As far as your roles, well the advantage of spontaneous casting is being able to fill all the roles as needed. :)

I tend to focus on buffing (no will save to disbelieve needed) and battlefield control.

TheBrassDuke
2016-10-28, 03:05 PM
Thank you for the advice! Hm...perhaps use my spells to bring up the dead when I need to, then.