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Dyslexic
2016-10-21, 02:09 PM
If I use the winter mask with my totemist, and I make a full attack, can I make the special melee touch attack and then the secondary attacks with my natural weapons?

Venger
2016-10-21, 07:26 PM
If I use the winter mask with my totemist, and I make a full attack, can I make the special melee touch attack and then the secondary attacks with my natural weapons?

Yeah, that's how it works.

Dyslexic
2016-10-22, 12:37 AM
Sure?
Because I have seen an other thread with opposite claims...

Troacctid
2016-10-22, 01:53 AM
There are two ways to interpret it. One is that it triggers whenever you make a successful melee touch attack for any reason. The other is that it is a special attack of its own and can be used with a standard action. Magic of Incarnum is notoriously unclear about abilities such as this; similar issues exist for a couple other touch attack soulmelds as well, like Lightning Gauntlets and Gloves of the Poisoned Soul.

Fizban
2016-10-22, 09:50 AM
Weather supernatrual or spell-like, the default activation time is always a standard action, so a lot of so-called confusion is often people being willfully obtuse. The Winter Mask does use flowery enough language to leave some room for actual confusion, but every other direct attack meld that properly defines its action is a standard action (including Lightning Gauntlets, which are perfectly well defined). Even many of the natural weapon melds expressly limit what attacks they can be used with if any.

Comparing to Gloves of the Poisoned Soul, that meld is also quite clear in it's definition, non-standard as it is. If you would run those as an attack action touch attack, then you should probably run Winter Mask in the same way, save that Winter Mask doesn't have a limit allowing you to use it on every iterative/haste/whatever attack. If that sounds too strong or shenanigany then both should be changed to explicit standard action effects like the other attack melds.

It doesn't matter if your other attacks are natrual or what, the question is weather the meld gives you a property taken advantage of with an attack action, in which case you can add secondary natural attacks by continuing into a full attack (but not many meld-based natural attacks)(possibly even adding it onto a natural weapon attack instead), or it's a standard action ability activation, in which case it's not an attack and cannot continue into a full attack.

Troacctid
2016-10-22, 10:24 AM
I don't think there's any interpretation of it that makes it an attack action. Either it's a standard action, or it's a rider on another melee touch attack, or both.

Fizban
2016-10-22, 04:55 PM
A melee touch attack is an attack action. Why would you need a different touch attack in order to use this one?