Fear Moths

[PraxisVetli]

So I'm building a dungeon for my players, and I find myself in Dragons of Faerun. Inside, pg 103, is this little gem, Fear Moths.
They explicitly remove 'all immunities to fear or bonuses to saving throws against fear' while also imposing a -2 to saves against fear in a 100' radius.
Why does nobody ever talk about this or use it?
Seems like every fear build ever should want them. Suddenly you're useful at higher levels, when things could just ignore you, now they have to deal with you.
Every Nightmare Spinner or Dread Witch should have these, but noone ever mentions it.
Why?

[Fizban]

Dragons of Faerun is one of several books that were printed late enough in 3.5's life that many people don't know anything about them. Dragons of Faerun, City of Splendors: Waterdeep, Forge of War, Secrets of Sarlona, etc. They have few mechanical bits in them, and those they do have are (thanks to that later printing) often something that actually resembles balanced, so the char-op community rarely if ever quotes them because they don't care.

As to your specific question, it is generally not assumed that PCs can just bottle of adventuring hazards, otherwise everyone would have pots of Green Slime to throw.

[PraxisVetli]

Dragons of Faerun is one of several books that were printed late enough in 3.5's life that many people don't know anything about them. Dragons of Faerun, City of Splendors: Waterdeep, Forge of War, Secrets of Sarlona, etc. They have few mechanical bits in them, and those they do have are (thanks to that later printing) often something that actually resembles balanced, so the char-op community rarely if ever quotes them because they don't care.

As to your specific question, it is generally not assumed that PCs can just bottle of adventuring hazards, otherwise everyone would have pots of Green Slime to throw.

Is there really not some way to harvest them?
I guess I just assumed someone somewhere had a build where they did throw pots of Green Slime.

[Nettlekid]

Is there really not some way to harvest them?
I guess I just assumed someone somewhere had a build where they did throw pots of Green Slime.

Considering they have no stats or price they fall pretty squarely into the terrain of "ask your DM if you can have stumbled across some or encouraged them to cultivate somewhere," which is very wishy-washy and doesn't lend itself to building a character as well as anything more concrete. I agree that they're pretty incredible if you're able to get your hands on them, but without a reliable way of getting them you might as well think of them as a Minor Artifact for all the good they can do you.

[Necroticplague]

Additionally, most immunities to fear don't come from being directly immune to fear. Normally, it comes from being immune to mind-effecting, which those moths don't help against.

[PraxisVetli]

Those don't overlap?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Additionally, most immunities to fear don't come from being directly immune to fear. Normally, it comes from being immune to mind-effecting, which those moths don't help against.
Exactly this; while all fear effects are mind-affecting, they are separate tags. For example, the fear spell (necromancy) has the [fear, mind-affecting] tags, just like phantasmal killer (an illusion), and haunting fear (an enchantment (compulsion), also [sonic]).

[Nettlekid]

I don't know, I think you'd have a strong case in a specific-trumps-general kind of way that if the moths remove all resistance to fear effects then the resistance afforded by immunity to mind-affecting effects is one such resistance. I agree it's a little up in the air and both sides could be argued, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to rule that fear can penetrate immune-to-mind-affecting in this specific circumstance. People don't seem to think that a Dread Witch can't, and the wording is similar.

[PraxisVetli]

I don't know, I think you'd have a strong case in a specific-trumps-general kind of way that if the moths remove all resistance to fear effects then the resistance afforded by immunity to mind-affecting effects is one such resistance. I agree it's a little up in the air and both sides could be argued, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to rule that fear can penetrate immune-to-mind-affecting in this specific circumstance. People don't seem to think that a Dread Witch can't, and the wording is similar.

That was honestly my thought.
So I suppose it's less, 'are these awesome,' more 'how do I use them?'
Because if there was a way to actively do it, holy crap!

[Nettlekid]

That was honestly my thought.
So I suppose it's less, 'are these awesome,' more 'how do I use them?'
Because if there was a way to actively do it, holy crap!

You can look in Caedrus' Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) for pretty much every conceivable trick regarding Fear effects, and the moths will let it happen. Dread Witch allowed spells to bypass fear immunity, but any non-spell effects like Intimidate or the Nightmare Spinner's various class features technically don't get that same pass. Assuming you can obtain them, which is difficult for all the reasons above, I think they'd be helpful on an Intimidate-focused build alongside feats like Imperious Command, classes like Scarlet Corsair and Avenging Executioner, and skill tricks like Never Outnumbered. Using Intimidate to force them to cower with Imperious Command, which opens them up for an easy Sneak Attack, which makes them Shaken because of Scarlet Corsair's Frightening Lunge and/or Avenging Executioner's Bloody Blade. Imperious Command then makes them Shaken the next round, but because they're already Shaken for however long they'll be Frightened for that same amount of time. Rinse and repeat, either Intimidating to send them to the ground or just Sneak Attacking since Avenging Executioner's Dread Blade makes them vulnerable to it. Stab and bully your way to victory. It's definitely not an optimized strategy, but it's one that wouldn't be possible if not for the Fear Moths, so it makes good use of them.