Good spells and tricks for a Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster/Spellwarp Sniper, anyone?

[danielxcutter]

I have a comic idea in the style of OotS, and one of the main characters will be a TN human Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster/Spellwarp Sniper. I'm thinking of giving him Spellwarp Sniper after the story progresses a bit, but Arcane Trickster is good enough for the "magic rogue" flavor until then(Plus, you qualify for AT earlier than SS anyways). I've already got some clever ideas, but any additional tricks are welcome.

Things to remember while giving advice

-Priority #1: This is a clever Arcane Trickster, not a simple Rogue abusing UMD or a Wizard with Sneak Attack. The two flavors must both be present and mix well, so spells that fit that role well are greatly desired. Mage Armor would not good advice because it's vital for any arcane caster who can cast it; Tenser's Running Warrior would be good advice since an AT will likely have high DEX. ignoring the fact that it's more of an Eldritch Knight spell

-Since you can Sneak Attack with spells that use attack rolls, those are going to be the main damage dealing ones. Note that while he won't get SS for a while, he'll still have a least a couple AoE spells like Fireball, in case he has to deal with lots of weak enemies. Examples: Disintegration, Ennervate, Energy Drain, Scorching Ray, Fire Orb, etc.

-Spells that could compliment the abilities of the AT well, such as Spectral Hand, (Greater) Invisibility, Silence, Grease, Dimension Door or Expeditious Retreat.

-He'll either be a non-specialist or a Diviner with Enchantment as his barred schools. Not that Enchantment's a bad school(it can be surprisingly useful at times), just a minor flavor thing.

-Any other tricks that only an AT could pull off(or at least do so more effectively).

Having a good idea does not guarantee it's addition, but it has a very high probability of at least being used for a minor character.



Oh yeah, the current title I have in name is XPeditious Retreat.

[Nettlekid]

Step one: Don't be an Arcane Trickster, be an Unseen Seer. Easy prereqs, full casting, CL boost for Divination and CL penalty for non-Divinations which can be offset with Practiced Spellcaster, Sneak Attack progression, and perhaps most importantly the ability to add a couple of Divination spells from off your list to your spellbook. You could go with Grave Strike or Vine Strike but those are fine in wands, the real gems are spells like Hunter's Eye for massive Sneak Attack damage or Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) to basically autopass any one skill check. Hunter's Eye is great because it's a low enough level that you can actually Persist it without Metamagic reducers.

Stocking up on low-level ray spells is an interesting way to have substantial elemental damage under your belt. When Sneak Attacking with a weaponlike spell the extra damage is the same type as the damage dealt by the spell (except if the spell does ability damage or negative levels, in which case the Sneak Attack damage is Negative Energy) so using spells like Ray of Frost, Electric Jolt, or Acid Splash can give you some high elemental damage when fighting certain enemies with elemental weaknesses.

Picking up Sniper's Shot means that you can use your Sneak Attacks from incredibly far distances, as far as a Melf's Acid Arrow can take you. If you're level 10, you could Sneak Attack from 800 feet away.

The secret beauty of Spellwarp Sniper is that it removes the save for Reflex-save spells that you Spellwarp. Try using it with spells that have interesting rider effects on a failed save. Ironthunder Horn is a great one, it doesn't do damage but it's a no-save "knock them prone" if you hit with it. The Sorcerer-only spell Wings of Flurry is amazing when Spellwarped since it'll do CLd6 damage and Daze without a save. The Wizard version of that would be Frost Breath, which also Dazes without a save now. Sonic Blast (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020713a) can really shove an opponent far if they have to make a Str check against 10d6 to avoid being Bull Rushed.

[danielxcutter]

Step one: Don't be an Arcane Trickster, be an Unseen Seer. Easy prereqs, full casting, CL boost for Divination and CL penalty for non-Divinations which can be offset with Practiced Spellcaster, Sneak Attack progression, and perhaps most importantly the ability to add a couple of Divination spells from off your list to your spellbook. You could go with Grave Strike or Vine Strike but those are fine in wands, the real gems are spells like Hunter's Eye for massive Sneak Attack damage or Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) to basically autopass any one skill check. Hunter's Eye is great because it's a low enough level that you can actually Persist it without Metamagic reducers.

AT's much more wide-known, at least to casual fans of D&D, plus more SA damage. I could make an UnS as some sort of evil opposite/rival/whatever, so still worth putting in the "good ideas for later" mental folder, though. There are just way too many PrCs out there, so thanks!


Stocking up on low-level ray spells is an interesting way to have substantial elemental damage under your belt. When Sneak Attacking with a weaponlike spell the extra damage is the same type as the damage dealt by the spell (except if the spell does ability damage or negative levels, in which case the Sneak Attack damage is Negative Energy) so using spells like Ray of Frost, Electric Jolt, or Acid Splash can give you some high elemental damage when fighting certain enemies with elemental weaknesses.

Pretty good I guess, but rays aren't the only thing an AT has in his arsenal. Also, what about some of the stronger spells, such as Energy Drain or Disintegration? Are they worth it?


Picking up Sniper's Shot means that you can use your Sneak Attacks from incredibly far distances, as far as a Melf's Acid Arrow can take you. If you're level 10, you could Sneak Attack from 800 feet away.

Sweet! This will be in my comic, I swear.


The secret beauty of Spellwarp Sniper is that it removes the save for Reflex-save spells that you Spellwarp. Try using it with spells that have interesting rider effects on a failed save. Ironthunder Horn is a great one, it doesn't do damage but it's a no-save "knock them prone" if you hit with it. The Sorcerer-only spell Wings of Flurry is amazing when Spellwarped since it'll do CLd6 damage and Daze without a save. The Wizard version of that would be Frost Breath, which also Dazes without a save now. Sonic Blast (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20020713a) can really shove an opponent far if they have to make a Str check against 10d6 to avoid being Bull Rushed.

Eh, I thought you can only warp spells that deal damage, so Ironthunder Horn's out. On the other hand, Frost Breath sounds awesome, and Sonic Blast is almost broken in the hands(er, spell slots) of a Spellwarp Sniper. Wings of Flurry could also qualify for spellwarping by RAW and Bluff is a class skill for Sorcerers, so I could make a Spellthief/Sorcerer/Unseen Seer/Spellwarp Sniper for the aformentioned evil opposite/rival/whatever.

Great advice in general!

[Troacctid]

A spell can only deal sneak attack damage on its first attack each round, so you won't get full value out of stuff like Scorching Ray; however, a spell like Cloud of Knives that can make attacks over multiple rounds can net a lot of sneak attack damage over the course of an encounter. (I can't think of a ray version of it off the top of my head, but there might be one.)

Get a familiar and use it. Familiars are very useful for skillful characters because they share all your skill ranks and can assist you on skill checks.

[Gruftzwerg]

I would like to pull out the "have you considered warlock?"-joker (yeah it's me again, if you remember^^).
Warlocks can make good arcane trickster too. Their Eldritch Blast SLA can be used for sneak attack. They can get Dimension Door from the Flee the Scene invocation, fly, invisibility and some other nice to have gish things. And DD as SLA can make good cheese with shadow pounce if you can squeeze it somehow into the build. Imho a flavorful and powerful build.

[BaronDoctor]

Acidic Splatter as a reserve feat lets you throw ranged touch attack magic all day. Ocular Spell shenanigans are a possibility too. Eschew Materials Launch Bolt or Giant's Wrath can be comical as well.

[danielxcutter]

Acidic Splatter as a reserve feat lets you throw ranged touch attack magic all day. Ocular Spell shenanigans are a possibility too. Eschew Materials Launch Bolt or Giant's Wrath can be comical as well.

You know, I'd come upon the Eschew Materials Launch Bolt trick on Tvtropes a few hours before I posted this, but Giant's Wrath sounds fun too.

[danielxcutter]

Quick question - Whirling Blade sound decent, anyone? I'm going to give the AT a sickle(light simple weapon, yeah), so that won't be too much of a problem.


I would like to pull out the "have you considered warlock?"-joker (yeah it's me again, if you remember^^).
Warlocks can make good arcane trickster too. Their Eldritch Blast SLA can be used for sneak attack. They can get Dimension Door from the Flee the Scene invocation, fly, invisibility and some other nice to have gish things. And DD as SLA can make good cheese with shadow pounce if you can squeeze it somehow into the build. Imho a flavorful and powerful build.

Sorry, no, but I do have an idea for a secondary character with the Clawlock build because of that gish-warlock post you did.

[Pyromancer999]

Might want to change to halfling. Halfkibg Rogue with the 1st level racial substitution level gets +1d6 to ranged sneak attacks at the cost of -1d6 to melee sneak attacks.

[gorfnab]

Here is a handbook that might help: Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)

[Zanos]

A spell can only deal sneak attack damage on its first attack each round, so you won't get full value out of stuff like Scorching Ray; however, a spell like Cloud of Knives that can make attacks over multiple rounds can net a lot of sneak attack damage over the course of an encounter. (I can't think of a ray version of it off the top of my head, but there might be one.
Can't spells that take a full-round action to cast get multiple sneak attacks?

Depending on whether or not you can, Ice Darts is pretty good. 2nd level spell, 1 dart + 1 every 2 levels after 3. Maxes at 5 at 11. They're only 2d4 damage each, but if you're relying on sneak attack for damage, and assuming spells can get multiple sneak attacks, that's 5 sneak attacks per round at level 11+. Frostburn.

[Troacctid]

Can't spells that take a full-round action to cast get multiple sneak attacks?

Depending on whether or not you can, Ice Darts is pretty good. 2nd level spell, 1 dart + 1 every 2 levels after 3. Maxes at 5 at 11. They're only 2d4 damage each, but if you're relying on sneak attack for damage, and assuming spells can get multiple sneak attacks, that's 5 sneak attacks per round at level 11+. Frostburn.
Nope, only on the first attack each round. See Complete Arcane, page 86.

[Zanos]

Nope, only on the first attack each round. See Complete Arcane, page 86.
RC 136 also confirms. Interestingly it's not the first hit, but the first attack, hit or miss.

Shame.

[Extra Anchovies]

RC 136 also confirms. Interestingly it's not the first hit, but the first attack, hit or miss.

Shame.

Are there any spells that use one attack roll to hit multiple targets? If they're all the first attack, they'd all get the SA damage.

[Anthrowhale]

Are there any spells that use one attack roll to hit multiple targets? If they're all the first attack, they'd all get the SA damage.

Twin Spell Acid Splash is a 4th level spell using only one attack roll to hit the same target twice.