Need help with Anthromorphic Bat.. This a bit complicated

[WhiteBread]

Kay here is my problem: I want to play a race with the bonus of anthromorphic bat but i really despise the idea of being a bat. Can't i just cut down on the fly and instead be an Anthromorphic Fox, Wolf? Other more desirable race? xD
Generally is there a rule or variant where you can switch racial traits for another race's traits? Like giving a human that has grown in an orc society the same traits as a normal half-orc instead of the human traits?

Edit : How to loose the racial hit dice of that race? Can druids lvl drain that?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Flying foxes are a type of bat. You're an anthropomorphic flying fox, and you don't have to change anything at all.

Look at that face:

http://www.wiresnr.org/images/wires_flyingfox.jpg

Isn't it adorable?

[WhiteBread]

Flying foxes are a type of bat. You're an anthropomorphic flying fox, and you don't have to change anything at all.

Look at that face:

http://www.wiresnr.org/images/wires_flyingfox.jpg

Isn't it adorable?

... I actually wanted to play a lycanthropy like werefox human druid. But because lycanthropy is so la heavy i kinda avoided it by saying i could play an anthromorphic fox or something.. Seriously why is dnd so complicated in this? xD

[Exocist]

If you're looking for the WIS bonus, then Jermlaline (MM2) should help you out.

+6 WIS, +6 DEX, -6 STR, -6 CHA, -2 CON, -2 INT, Tiny Fey 40ft fly speed. +0 Level Adjust.

EDIT: The only other 0LA with +6 WIS is the anthromorphic toad. You can downscale to +4 WIS to be an anthromorphic Rat, Raven, Lizard or Monkey.

[Grand Arbiter]

I think I heard that Pathfinder has a lycanthrope-ish race with +0 LA. I'll need to search for it though.

There is also the Hengeyokai and Eberron's Shifter race to look into.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Want lycanthropy without the the heavy LA and RHD? Check it: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a

Add to the shapeshifting druid ACF for the hybrid form, and there you go.

[WhiteBread]

I think I heard that Pathfinder has a lycanthrope-ish race with +0 LA. I'll need to search for it though.

There is also the Hengeyokai and Eberron's Shifter race to look into.

You mean the kitsune.. Sadly enough pf is out :/

[eggynack]

Edit : How to loose the racial hit dice of that race? Can druids lvl drain that?
The racial HD of what race? And, yeah, kinda, I think. Not easily though. Like, you can use blackwater tentacle to negative level something into becoming a wight, and then use the wight to drain you, or you can use a summoned sporebat to enervation you, or you can animate with the spirit for a movanic deva granting something of a raise dead effect.

Anyways, maybe anthro raven, if that's more appealing? See, the weird thing about anthropomorphic ravens is, they might arguably be as good as anthropomorphic bats. According to the rules underlying the construction of anthropomorphic creatures, the anthropomorphic version is supposed to have +2 wisdom compared to the base animal. The bat has the correct statting based on that rule, because the base wisdom there is 14, but ravens, despite being listed with +4 wisdom on the table, also have a base wisdom of 14. Thus, there is a good text trumps table claim to be made for ravens having the kinda stats you want.

[Darrin]

Hengeyokai fox (Oriental Adventures)? Or maybe sparrow refluffed as a bat? The 3.5 update removed the LA +1, but tracking down a copy of Dragon #318 could be problematic.

[Grand Arbiter]

You mean the kitsune.. Sadly enough pf is out :/

No, not the Kitsune. A race called Skinwalkers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp)(link for the curious).

Hengeyokai would probably be your best bet then if you're looking for something that can switch from humanoid to an animal.

[WhiteBread]

The racial HD of what race? And, yeah, kinda, I think. Not easily though. Like, you can use blackwater tentacle to negative level something into becoming a wight, and then use the wight to drain you, or you can use a summoned sporebat to enervation you, or you can animate with the spirit for a movanic deva granting something of a raise dead effect.

Anyways, maybe anthro raven, if that's more appealing? See, the weird thing about anthropomorphic ravens is, they might arguably be as good as anthropomorphic bats. According to the rules underlying the construction of anthropomorphic creatures, the anthropomorphic version is supposed to have +2 wisdom compared to the base animal. The bat has the correct statting based on that rule, because the base wisdom there is 14, but ravens, despite being listed with +4 wisdom on the table, also have a base wisdom of 14. Thus, there is a good text trumps table claim to be made for ravens having the kinda stats you want.
Yeah statwise they are awesome but i would like something more in lines of wolf/fox and these two are kinda don't have the stats i would like as antromorphic animals. Maybe you got another idea for a kinda human/animal hybrid race with bonus to wis and cha?

On a different note: I use your Druid Handbook! It is awesome and gave me some ideas how i want to make my druid. Sadly i didn't see you comment to the multiclass feat "Swift Avanger" from Dragon Magazine. I was thinking of adding a lvl of scout for that.


Hengeyokai fox (Oriental Adventures)? Or maybe sparrow refluffed as a bat? The 3.5 update removed the LA +1, but tracking down a copy of Dragon #318 could be problematic.
The race from Oriental Adventures comes very very close but the hit to wis makes this class rather undesirable for a druid.

[Grand Arbiter]

I'm guessing the DM would shoot down any tweaks in flames, but maybe you could check with your DM if you could negate the Wisdom penalty by removing the hybrid form (This is working off of 3.0 OA version).

[Extra Anchovies]

The Werewolf Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a) is probably worth a look. I've not played the template classes myself but I've seen them get a lot of praise for allowing thematically ghostly/undead/lycanthropic characters without setting the PC eight levels behind to pay for a bunch of abilities they don't want or need.

[Inevitability]

The race from Oriental Adventures comes very very close but the hit to wis makes this class rather undesirable for a druid.

Not necessarily. As long as you can keep your wisdom high enough to be able to cast whatever spells you can currently access, all the score influences are save DC's and bonus spells. A druid focusing on summoning, buffing and utility (and druids tend to be good at all three) will barely notice being less wise.

Sure, missing out on one or two higher-level spells is annoying, but it won't cripple your character (if you're playing a druid that's nearly impossible anyway).

[eggynack]

Yeah statwise they are awesome but i would like something more in lines of wolf/fox and these two are kinda don't have the stats i would like as antromorphic animals. Maybe you got another idea for a kinda human/animal hybrid race with bonus to wis and cha?
Can't think of much, no. Kinda weird that foxes in general don't seem to be present in the books. I think you're mostly stuck with the stats for listed animals, along with whatever you can construct from other animals listed in books. Shifter was mentioned though, as a race that has that anthropomorphic feel, and that's useful with druids.



On a different note: I use your Druid Handbook! It is awesome and gave me some ideas how i want to make my druid. Sadly i didn't see you comment to the multiclass feat "Swift Avanger" from Dragon Magazine. I was thinking of adding a lvl of scout for that.

Glad you like it. On swift avenger, my standards for what's worth a caster level are super high, and some decent situational damage doesn't feel like it meets that standard, especially cause you lose a bunch of other stuff. Still kinda iffy on the fact that I have the saint race included, for example. If a rating were to exist, it'd just be a straight red with, "This isn't worth a caster level, and the feat cost just makes that situation worse," which isn't all that interesting.

[WhiteBread]

So i found out you can make any animal into an anthromorphic race.. I tried the same with fox and ended up with this :

Anthromorphic Fox:
Medium Size,
2 racial hit dice( don't loose 1 hit dice upon taking a class level) 1d8,
Speed 30,
14 Armor class( 0 size, +2 dex,+2 natural), touch 12, flat footed 12
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Darkvision 60ft
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10
+0fort, +3ref,+3will (from 2 hit dice)
Feats: Weapon Finesse(b)

So well for one i don't get what kind of bonuses this would give me as a playable race and secondly ... how do i remove 2 racial hit dice as they dont get removed like with anthro bat automatically upon taking a class level.

[zergling.exe]

So i found out you can make any animal into an anthromorphic race.. I tried the same with fox and ended up with this :

Anthromorphic Fox:
Medium Size,
2 racial hit dice( don't loose 1 hit dice upon taking a class level) 1d8,
Speed 30,
14 Armor class( 0 size, +2 dex,+2 natural), touch 12, flat footed 12
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Darkvision 60ft
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10
+0fort, +3ref,+3will (from 2 hit dice)
Feats: Weapon Finesse(b)

So well for one i don't get what kind of bonuses this would give me as a playable race and secondly ... how do i remove 2 racial hit dice as they dont get removed like with anthro bat automatically upon taking a class level.

Use a dog, fluff it as a fox, drop the HD when you take your first level.

[WhiteBread]

Use a dog, fluff it as a fox, drop the HD when you take your first level.

Dog is even worse .. it gets +2 la from table and 2 racial hit dice from table...

[Ruethgar]

Anthropomorphic Ravens have better stats(since text trumps table) if you would prefer a bird.

There are also the rules for Awakened Animals if you wanted to be more beastly. Monkey, Rat, Lizard, Cat, and Toad are all ECL 0 when Awakened.

Edit: Also chiwawa is close enough to a rat without swim or climb if you wanted that.

[zergling.exe]

Dog is even worse .. it gets +2 la from table and 2 racial hit dice from table...

Oops, didn't look at the template. Dog have 1 RHD so I assumed that the anthropomorphic would have one as well. I was confused where you were getting 2 RHD on the fox from.

[WhiteBread]

Anthropomorphic Ravens have better stats(since text trumps table) if you would prefer a bird.

There are also the rules for Awakened Animals if you wanted to be more beastly. Monkey, Rat, Lizard, Cat, and Toad are all ECL 0 when Awakened.

Yeah i am looking at the table. The table modifies some stat boosts but the net bonus is around the same as it was intended.


Oops, didn't look at the template. Dog have 1 RHD so I assumed that the anthropomorphic would have one as well. I was confused where you were getting 2 RHD on the fox from.

So what i did was first make the Fox(Small Animal) into a Smaller Fox(Tiny Animal) which resulted in the standard fox gaining a -4Str, +2Dex, Same Con, +1 Size to Ac and Natural Armor stayed the same. (As per rules in the SRD). Now i made an Anthromorphic Tiny Fox which results in 1 RHD but it says that small Anthormorphic Races loose this RHD automatically after gaining a class level. So basically none. This race would net me a bonus as PC: -2 Str, +7 Dex(6Dex), + 4 wis, being small and +1 natural armor, darkvision as well as weapon profiency with bite attacks.

Anthromorphic Fox(Tiny):
Small Size,
1 racial hit dice (loose hit dice upon taking a class level) 1d8,
Speed 30,
15 Armor class( 1 size, +3 dex,+1 natural), touch 14, flat footed 12
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d4-1)
Darkvision 60ft,
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10
Feats: Weapon Finesse(b)



It is weaker than the dog but still pretty nice and now i can be a real foxxy shappi something.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I still think that if you want a "foxy" bat, that anthrobat is perfectly suitable. I mean, look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVz8rvIl_vY

[Troacctid]

Hengeyokai fox (Oriental Adventures)? Or maybe sparrow refluffed as a bat? The 3.5 update removed the LA +1, but tracking down a copy of Dragon #318 could be problematic.
All my issues are in PDF form. You can get #318 here (http://paizo.com/products/btpy7tqt?Dragon-Issue-318).

[GilesTheCleric]

All my issues are in PDF form. You can get #318 here (http://paizo.com/products/btpy7tqt?Dragon-Issue-318).

How is the quality on the Paizo scans? Is it searchable?

[Troacctid]

How is the quality on the Paizo scans? Is it searchable?
I dunno. I just linked to where you can get it now, but I personally got mine from that one time (http://www.themarysue.com/internet-archive-scans-of-dragon-magazine/) when the Internet Archive put them all up for free. (They have since been taken down.)