Best way to handle subdual damage without being immune?

[WarKitty]

I'm playing a bard with DFI and words of creation. I'm playing silverbrow human to get DFI, so I'm obviously not immune to subdual. That given, is there a good way to handle subdual damage, or is my best bet just to use my CLW wand? I'm starting at level 6.

[Inevitability]

Are you okay with changing type to say, undead if it doesn't make you evil? Necropolitian may be interesting in that case.

[Extra Anchovies]

Refreshment (BoED 105; Bard 3, Cleric 3) removes nonlethal damage from everyone within 20 feet of the caster. Whether this affects the caster themselves depends on whether a "burst centered on you" affects you - I'm pretty sure the rules are supposed to exclude the caster, because spells like Fireburst and Wings of Flurry exist, but spell qualities are notoriously inconsistent.

Everyone automatically heals 1 nonlethal HP per character level per hour, which is 6 per hour for you. Words of Creation (Inspire Courage) inflicts 3d4 damage, which averages to 7.5; that means every hour you recover about 80% of the damage from Words of Creation without spending any build or character resources, and that's a number which'll be improving as you level.

Also, magical healing which cures hit point damage also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage, so if you've taken some of each you can actually get better efficiency out of CLW than usual. Between that and the natural healing rate, I'd say you're probably set.

[WarKitty]

Are you okay with changing type to say, undead if it doesn't make you evil? Necropolitian may be interesting in that case.

I'm leaning towards no, but maybe. Part of the question would be what it does to my existing subtypes - DFI requires that I maintain my dragonblooded subtype from silverbrow human.

[Inevitability]

I'm leaning towards no, but maybe. Part of the question would be what it does to my existing subtypes - DFI requires that I maintain my dragonblooded subtype from silverbrow human.

Necropolitian doesn't mention removing subtypes, so you'd keep it.

[WarKitty]

Necropolitan would cost me melodic casting though...I think for that and for fluff reasons I'm going to say no.

[Andezzar]

Necropolitan would cost me melodic casting though...I think for that and for fluff reasons I'm going to say no.Being undead in general and being necropolitan in particular does nothing to Melodic Casting.

[WarKitty]

Being undead in general and being necropolitan in particular does nothing to Melodic Casting.

No, but I would drop a level from 6 to 5, and thus lose access to my level 6 feat melodic casting.

[Extra Anchovies]

No, but I would drop a level from 6 to 5, and thus lose access to my level 6 feat melodic casting.

When are you getting Words of Creation, then? The base will save +5 requirement isn't met by a Bard (or any other single-classed character) until level 6.

[Venger]

does your party have the capacity for any of the vigor lines?

[WarKitty]

When are you getting Words of Creation, then? The base will save +5 requirement isn't met by a Bard (or any other single-classed character) until level 6.

*looks at sheet* Ok, looks like I took melodic casting at 3 and words of creation at 6. Still, becoming necropolitan only to lose words of creation would kind of be pointless.


does your party have the capacity for any of the vigor lines?

Not sure what the full party composition is yet.

[Crake]

The honestly minor damage from words of creation is really neglidgible in the long run. 3d4 damage from inspire courage is practically nothing, averaging 7.5 damage, and since magical healing heals nonlethal damage and lethal damage at the same time for the same amount, there's no reason to really worry about a measly 7 nonlethal damage.

[BaronDoctor]

Mass Lesser Vigor comes online for a level 6 cleric (which is about when DMM can come online) around the same time.

Worst case? You take the nonlethal damage without mitigation. At low-ish levels, taking nonlethal damage is actually a decent way to make sure you go unconscious when you take near-lethal damage without the risk of bleeding out.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The Draconic Aura: Vigor feat grants you fast healing if you're at or under half hp, so if you have someone with the feat in your party and you're near half hp, damage yourself a bit to activate the fast healing, which will heal your nonlethal damage at the same rate. If you still have nonlethal left, damage yourself a bit more and heal it the rest of the way up.

It's niche, but it technically works, and it's not like DA:V isn't otherwise very useful, especially if you toss it on a familiar or animal companion.

[WarKitty]

The Draconic Aura: Vigor feat grants you fast healing if you're at or under half hp, so if you have someone with the feat in your party and you're near half hp, damage yourself a bit to activate the fast healing, which will heal your nonlethal damage at the same rate. If you still have nonlethal left, damage yourself a bit more and heal it the rest of the way up.

It's niche, but it technically works, and it's not like DA:V isn't otherwise very useful, especially if you toss it on a familiar or animal companion.

That almost makes me wish I had a free feat to take it. Still, CLW wands are cheap.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That almost makes me wish I had a free feat to take it. Still, CLW wands are cheap.Lesser vigor wands are considerably cheaper and more efficient for the hp healed; they're just not as good to use when you're in a time crunch -- not that most time crunch scenarios are good for cure light wounds, either.

[WarKitty]

Lesser vigor wands are considerably cheaper and more efficient for the hp healed; they're just not as good to use when you're in a time crunch -- not that most time crunch scenarios are good for cure light wounds, either.

If I'm reading my party correctly lesser vigor would require a UMD check each time as no one has it on their spell list. I do have UMD but that's still a risk.

[Andezzar]

If I'm reading my party correctly lesser vigor would require a UMD check each time as no one has it on their spell list. I do have UMD but that's still a risk.Who would cast CLW then? clerics get both.

[WarKitty]

Who would cast CLW then? clerics get both.

Bards get CLW but not lesser vigor.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Bards get CLW but not lesser vigor.Eternal wand of lesser vigor? There are several ways to convert divine spells to arcane spells, after all, and any arcane caster can use any eternal wand. Cheaper than a healing belt for how much healing you get, IIRC.

[Andezzar]

Bards get CLW but not lesser vigor.I know, but the bard isn't alone, is he? If there is a cleric or druid or archivist in your party, just buy him a wand.

[WarKitty]

I know, but the bard isn't alone, is he? If there is a cleric or druid or archivist in your party, just buy him a wand.

The only other confirmed caster is a beguiler.

[Extra Anchovies]

The Draconic Aura: Vigor feat grants you fast healing if you're at or under half hp, so if you have someone with the feat in your party and you're near half hp, damage yourself a bit to activate the fast healing, which will heal your nonlethal damage at the same rate. If you still have nonlethal left, damage yourself a bit more and heal it the rest of the way up.

It's niche, but it technically works, and it's not like DA:V isn't otherwise very useful, especially if you toss it on a familiar or animal companion.

Vigor isn't a valid choice for Draconic Aura, because the feat draws only from the auras presented in Dragon Magic (p. 86-87). Dragon Shamans can learn a Dragon Magic aura instead of a PHB2 aura, but that rule doesn't go both ways.

There's also the Touch of Healing reserve feat for unlimited up-to-half healing, though, so allowing Vigor (which heals significantly less but affects multiple allies and doesn't take actions) for Draconic Aura most likely won't cause any problems. Ask your DM, I suppose.

[Vaz]

Dragon Shaman hireling?

[animewatcha]

Can try to get a hireling whose sole purpose was to get as many turn undead attempts as possible with them built for the fast healing 3 divine feat.

[JeminiZero]

Look up Beastland Ferocity from Spell Compendium. A Bard 1 spell which lets you function normally while disabled or dying. I.e. if non lethal damage brings you into the negatives, you can still function, but you still die if lethal damage drops you below -10. Essentially, it lets you ignore non lethal damage for a while until you have time to spam CLW.

[zergling.exe]

Look up Beastland Ferocity from Spell Compendium. A Bard 1 spell which lets you function normally while disabled or dying. I.e. if non lethal damage brings you into the negatives, you can still function, but you still die if lethal damage drops you below -10. Essentially, it lets you ignore non lethal damage for a while until you have time to spam CLW.

That's not actually how it works. Being below 0 hp is a seperate rule from having non-lethal > than hp, which actually makes it so that 1 point of non-lethal damage knocks anyone out if they have 0 hp or less, bypassing anything that specifies disabled or dying by virtue of being a different and uncovered rule.

[supersonic29]

Dragon Shaman hireling?

Underrated post.

Matter of fact, the hilarity of hirelings is entirely underrated.

I need access to a class feature from a different class for one niche use, what do?
Get someone else to do it of course.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

*Stuff*Would you happen to be any relation to SuperSonic68?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0IsSeE_ckI