Difference between 3.5 and 3.P mechanics?

[gooddragon1]

I'll probably have to read through them anyways, but are there any major differences in things like grapple mechanics that are fundamental to the game going from 3.5 into Pathfinder?

Reason: I know the 3.5 rules. I don't know the pathfinder rules. A lot of the games I'm seeing on rpgcrossing are pathfinder.

[D.M.Hentchel]

Size bonuses work differently the bonus to hide for being small now applies to move silently (the twonare one skill now). And the size bonus for special manuevers (bullrush trip etc.) was greatly reduced.

Every race nets at least a +2 ability score bonus (see humans)

You just pick your favored class at 1st level

Multi-classing penalties are gone. In exchange you now get +1 hit-point or skill point (or a racial option) for each level of your favored class.

Skills now cost 1 rank per skill regardless of whether it is a class skill. You do not get ×4 at 1st level, but you do gain a misc. +3 bonus to any class skill you have ranks on.

Many skills got lumped together.

Feats are aquired at every odd level.

Special attacks got the biggest change. Now they all add BaB + Str + Size versus the defenders 10 + BaB + Str + Dex + Size.

Drag and Reposition offer more ways to move opponents.

Disarm is now two seperate maneuvers (disarm and steal)

Grapple got completely reworked

Dirty Trick sits as one of the more versatile and power manuvers


But other than that it works about the same

[gooddragon1]

Size bonuses work differently the bonus to hide for being small now applies to move silently (the twonare one skill now). And the size bonus for special manuevers (bullrush trip etc.) was greatly reduced.

Every race nets at least a +2 ability score bonus (see humans)

You just pick your favored class at 1st level

Multi-classing penalties are gone. In exchange you now get +1 hit-point or skill point (or a racial option) for each level of your favored class.

Skills now cost 1 rank per skill regardless of whether it is a class skill. You do not get ×4 at 1st level, but you do gain a misc. +3 bonus to any class skill you have ranks on.

Many skills got lumped together.

Feats are aquired at every odd level.

Special attacks got the biggest change. Now they all add BaB + Str + Size versus the defenders 10 + BaB + Str + Dex + Size.

Drag and Reposition offer more ways to move opponents.

Disarm is now two seperate maneuvers (disarm and steal)

Grapple got completely reworked

Dirty Trick sits as one of the more versatile and power manuvers


But other than that it works about the same

Good, not much reading to do then and thanks for the pointers. Special Attacks seems really weird though.

[Psyren]

Good, not much reading to do then and thanks for the pointers. Special Attacks seems really weird though.

All he was doing there was spelling out CMB (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuver-Bonus) vs. CMD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuver-Defense). You'll get the hang of it, and the beauty is it applies to just about every maneuver in the game for faster learning.

Check Saph's guide in my sig as well - it's a bit dated but goes through the common changes on a core-to-core basis back when that was all that existed for PF.

[Kurald Galain]

I'll probably have to read through them anyways, but are there any major differences in things like grapple mechanics that are fundamental to the game going from 3.5 into Pathfinder?

An interesting one is that many classes get bonus abilities. For example, barbarians get to choose a rage power every other level; rogues get a rogue talent every other level. Sorcerers get a bloodline (which is basically their exotic ancestor that gave them their magic blood) and corresponding abilities.

Archetypes are a big one. They're basically prestige classes, except they have no prerequisites and start at level one. For instance, a cleric can choose to be a crusader, evangelist, or merciful healer right from the start; without having to worry about investing feats or skill points that they wouldn't normally take, for payoff several levels later.

All-in-all, low level characters already have more options, and they're also more intuitive.

[Ruethgar]

It should also be noted that 3.P has a wide array of variations as it is supposed to be a mix of 3.5 and PF so it depends heavily on which system is dominant and how you are reconciling their differences. For example, when I design for 3.P, it is almost entirely 3.5 rules except skills and allowing PF options on races and classes.

[gooddragon1]

It should also be noted that 3.P has a wide array of variations as it is supposed to be a mix of 3.5 and PF so it depends heavily on which system is dominant and how you are reconciling their differences. For example, when I design for 3.P, it is almost entirely 3.5 rules except skills and allowing PF options on races and classes.

So if I have a 3.5 homebrew class it should still be able to map over though? It's linked in the exclamation mark in my signature.

[digiman619]

Archetypes are a big one. They're basically prestige classes, except they have no prerequisites and start at level one. For instance, a cleric can choose to be a crusader, evangelist, or merciful healer right from the start; without having to worry about investing feats or skill points that they wouldn't normally take, for payoff several levels later.

It'd be more accurate to say that archetypes are groups of Alternate Class features that give a prestige class-style feel.
Also, worth noting is that they have two dedicated gish classes: the magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus) (arcane) and warpriest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/warpriest) (divine), so that you can have your gish build work from level 1.

[Mordaedil]

So if I have a 3.5 homebrew class it should still be able to map over though? It's linked in the exclamation mark in my signature.

Generally 3.5 stuff does go over without too much change, I'd maybe just give it a slight boost and compare it to how the other prestige classes were handled.

[unseenmage]

Some negatives and/or advice from someone still converting to PF...

Burrow never got all its text copied properly so you'll have to use 3.x rules.

Simulacrum is even easier to abuse. I advise just banning it outright.

Use the Unchained versions of classes when possible. Esp. Rogue and Barbarian and Summoner.

Undead got bonus hp from Cha. Constructs still suck. The top of my extended sig has my group's fix to level that playing field some.

Don't trust monster templates on the topic of CR. They will almost never agree with the monster stats charts PF has.
The charts are more accurate.

Auto-ban the spell Blood Money. Pathfinder was young and didn't know what it was doing.

The PRD, PFSRD, Archives of Nethys, and Paizo forums are your friends. Utilize them.

Have fun with it. I know we have. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

3.P means 3.5+PF. PF means Pathfinder.

Also, have you taken a gander at Saph's guide for 3.5 grognards to learn PF?

[Psyren]

Simulacrum is even easier to abuse. I advise just banning it outright.

At the risk of starting a protracted debate, it's not. The same clause that limited its power in 3.5 made it to PF. The larger problem is GMs who ignore that clause (and then act surprised when their PCs are getting free wishes and other such broken things.)

[unseenmage]

At the risk of starting a protracted debate, it's not. The same clause that limited its power in 3.5 made it to PF. The larger problem is GMs who ignore that clause (and then act surprised when their PCs are getting free wishes and other such broken things.)

Simulacdum just needed the same or similar treatment that Polymoroh got. A goid, solid nerfing.

That it got ignored AND had its material component requirement removed left it as broke as it started.
Then Alchemists got earlier access to it.

Add to that the theoretical Simulacrum of Animated Object Technology Artifacts or Simulacrum Alter Egos of the BBEG both made possible by that lacking material component.

It's just a bad scene that isn't worth the same protracted argument at the game table to fix.

We found it so strong we didn't even use it in our PF game that went to epic levels.
We had some good chuckles at its potential abuse though.

[Psyren]

Polymorph doesn't have an "appropriateness" clause though. So a nerf was needed there. Simulacrum requires judgment; if the group isn't willing or able to exercise any, then I agree, a ban is the best/only solution.