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View Full Version : Taint in Eberron - Quori gaining Depravity/Corruption?



ksbsnowowl
2016-10-23, 03:36 PM
I'm a DM running a game that incorporates the Taint rules from Heroes of Horror. I've run into a situation that makes me unsure how to proceed.

Two very basic Taint aspects:
There are Tainted Locations, and entering such a location requires a DC 20 Will save to not gain a point of Depravity (ie - mental taint).
There are Taint Elementals, which will ooze their way out of the corpse of a killed tainted creature. Their slam attack inflicts Corruption (ie - physical body taint) (Fort save resists accumulating Corruption).

How would these aspects of the Taint rules interact with a Quori? Specifically, my party of PC's has a Psion with the Project Quori Spirit power from Magic of Eberron, but I'm also curious how it would interact with a Riedran Empty Vessel that was currently inhabited by its Quori Spirit. I have quoted the relevant parts of the psionic power in question at the end of this post.

Would the possessing Quori Spirit gain and start accumulating Depravity if it used vessels to repeatedly go in to investigate a Tainted Location? Or would the Depravity be limited to the vessel it is forcing to go into such areas? Would the possessing Quori gain and start accumulating Corruption if its vessel was struck by a Taint Elemental?

My initial thoughts are that the Quori would start accumulating Depravity (as would the vessel it is inhabiting), but only the Empty Vessel would acquire Corruption. Translated into the power, below, the random Quori spirit that is projected would also acquire Depravity, but Corruption would be limited to the short-term shell that the power creates (and thus Corruption is effectively moot with regards to the power). Since the Quori spirit that is projected is likely random (as opposed to a specific being called each time), any one Quori in Dal Quor is likely to only gain 1 or 2 points of Depravity over a long period of this power being used, but over time, this could grow into a problem/plot, as the Quori would begin to hold a grudge against any character calling them and subjecting them to Depravity, and may seek them out via other means.

Unfortunately, being a power rather than a spell, I don't have a [Summoning] or [Calling] tag to better illuminate if the projected spirit suffers lasting effects from what happens to it while it is projected. Though the power mentions summoning, it is only in regards to how the creature behaves in a tactical sense; it doesn't deal with permanency/impermanency of its death (since it essentially uses the possession rules inherent to Quori anyway, at least according to the fluff text in the first paragraph.)

So, what are your thoughts? Would the projected Quori Spirit gain Depravity? Would a projected Quori Spirit remember what happened to it while it was being forcibly projected? After several hundred Quori gained a small bit of Depravity, would it be a good sub-plot of a campaign to have them begin actively working against a PC (and various NPC's) that use & abuse them in this way?


This power creates a quasi-real mental projection of a tsoreva quori spirit of Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams. Although the quori spirits are trapped within Dal Quor, a psion using this power can create a shell resembling the physical form of a quori. This shell is then temporarily inhabited by a quori spirit.

A projected quori spirit behaves much like a summoned monster. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you speak Quori, you can direct it not to attack, to attack a particular enemy, or to perform other actions.

A projected quori spirit is subject to dismissal or any other effect that removes possession, such as the domain power granted by the Exorcism domain (see page 106 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting).

DrMotives
2016-10-23, 04:23 PM
Seems to me this behaves exactly like magical [summoning] tagged spells. I would rule that no lasting taint effects remain with the Quori after the power ends, much like a Summon Monster spell.

Nifft
2016-10-23, 04:51 PM
Can Quori minds deal with the madness of Xoriat? (My answer would be NO.)

Can Quori bodies tolerate the darkness of Mabar? (My answer would be NO.)

Can Quori souls resist the corruption of Khyber? (My answer would be NO.)

- - -

There's a lot of different types of evil in Eberron. My suggestion would be:

- Each tainted region has a reason why it's tainted. Planar manifest zone would be a fine reason.

- Each tainted region has a type of taint imposed based on the reason. The type of taint imposed would depend on the reason. For example, a Khyber-tainted region might impose Corruption and Depravity (50% chance for either), while a Dal Quor-tainted region would only impose Depravity.

- Some creatures are immune to some reasons. They might not be immune to taint in general. For example, a Rakshsa might be immune to all taint from a Khyber-tainted region, because it is a creature of Khyber.

By that reasoning, a Quori might happily live in one tainted region, but also be affected by the corruption of a differently tainted region.

Afgncaap5
2016-10-23, 07:40 PM
Can Quori minds deal with the madness of Xoriat? (My answer would be NO.)

Can Quori bodies tolerate the darkness of Mabar? (My answer would be NO.)

Can Quori souls resist the corruption of Khyber? (My answer would be NO.)

- - -

There's a lot of different types of evil in Eberron. My suggestion would be:

- Each tainted region has a reason why it's tainted. Planar manifest zone would be a fine reason.

- Each tainted region has a type of taint imposed based on the reason. The type of taint imposed would depend on the reason. For example, a Khyber-tainted region might impose Corruption and Depravity (50% chance for either), while a Dal Quor-tainted region would only impose Depravity.

- Some creatures are immune to some reasons. They might not be immune to taint in general. For example, a Rakshsa might be immune to all taint from a Khyber-tainted region, because it is a creature of Khyber.

By that reasoning, a Quori might happily live in one tainted region, but also be affected by the corruption of a differently tainted region.

This sounds like a great method to me. Creatures born of one kind of evil (dream and nightmare in this case) are still wounded by other forces and powers, while their native "element" remains benign (or even beneficial) to them.

Extending that further outside of Eberron-specific material, the gleefully rigid and tyrannical taint of the Hells might affect demons but not devils, while the chaotic terror of the Abyss might affect devils but not demons. Meanwhile, they both might be affected by the putridity of an especially powerful and malevolent arch-lich's lair. I wouldn't play it that way in regular D&D, but if taint rules are in play I'd consider it.



So, what are your thoughts? Would the projected Quori Spirit gain Depravity? Would a projected Quori Spirit remember what happened to it while it was being forcibly projected? After several hundred Quori gained a small bit of Depravity, would it be a good sub-plot of a campaign to have them begin actively working against a PC (and various NPC's) that use & abuse them in this way?

I think it might be a fun sub-plot. If memory serves, the Quori (or at least, their sinister leaders) are concerned about the potential evolution of their reality and their own state of being (and that the shifting thoughts and dreams and attitudes of civilization are contributing to that problem), so to have some of them being altered through *direct* manipulation by mortals might attract attention faster than it would with other sorts of outsiders.

On that note... what if after it's noticed a Quori with a grudge against another asked a player to always wield a certain talisman when manifesting that power so that it would always summon a particular Quori, hoping that they become altered to the point that they lose whatever passes for "standing" in that realm? Better, what if some Kalashtar has a series of talismans that will attract certain Quori, in the hopes that altering certain key entities will hasten the changing of the dream?

Xuldarinar
2016-10-23, 08:04 PM
Quite simple; Quori are (evil) outsiders. They would automatically have taint scores by default under the taint system's rule. 1/2 Charisma score +2. I don't think creatures with default taint scores can accumulate taint... But if they can, then they would earn more if possible.

Extra Anchovies
2016-10-23, 11:34 PM
Quite simple; Quori are (evil) outsiders. They would automatically have taint scores by default under the taint system's rule. 1/2 Charisma score +2. I don't think creatures with default taint scores can accumulate taint... But if they can, then they would earn more if possible.

They can accumulate taint, because "having x points of taint" isn't itself a negative effect of taint. They're immune to taint's negative effects, and their effective corruption and depravity scores (per the given formula) can be used in place of their normal taint scores to qualify for feats and prestige classes. The immunity to negative effects doesn't extend to positive effects, so they can still get the two bonus feats for reaching moderate and severe taint. You also still roll on the physical and mental signs tables, but you replace any negative result with "nothing" - depending on how you define "negative effects", Lich Eyes, Bestial, or Prophetic (without the sleep-deprivation effects) could still be acquired by an evil undead or outsider who gets lucky on the rolls.

Xuldarinar
2016-10-24, 08:05 AM
They can accumulate taint, because "having x points of taint" isn't itself a negative effect of taint. They're immune to taint's negative effects, and their effective corruption and depravity scores (per the given formula) can be used in place of their normal taint scores to qualify for feats and prestige classes. The immunity to negative effects doesn't extend to positive effects, so they can still get the two bonus feats for reaching moderate and severe taint. You also still roll on the physical and mental signs tables, but you replace any negative result with "nothing" - depending on how you define "negative effects", Lich Eyes, Bestial, or Prophetic (without the sleep-deprivation effects) could still be acquired by an evil undead or outsider who gets lucky on the rolls.

Thank you for clarifying. I personally have never had a situation where a creature with a default taint score would be in a tainted environment.

ksbsnowowl
2016-10-26, 03:23 AM
Seems to me this behaves exactly like magical [summoning] tagged spells. I would rule that no lasting taint effects remain with the Quori after the power ends, much like a Summon Monster spell.


I think it might be a fun sub-plot.

So one vote "doesn't work," and one vote "rule of cool - go for it."

:nale: