Crowbar uses issue

[AleixRuiz]

Hello guys, it is my first post, nice to meet you all!

I recently started as DM for a party of 4, we have been playing already for like 30 hours, we are having a blast.

I always try to challenge my players and they are loving it, so so far everything is being great.

I let my players do almost anything it comes in their mind if it makes sense out of combat, but I would like to share you a situation that came yesterday and we are not getting wether or not should be actually possible, and it is quite important, so would be nice to know another point of view.

2 members of the party got caught and are now trapped in a small locked room(underground) inside an old castle, but they kept the stuff they were carrying.
The door is too hard for them to open it, so one of them came with the following idea: using a crowbar and a small hammer he had, use it like a chisel and break the stones the door's hinges are attached to, so he could open it.
He need to do that in less than 2 hours, because some enemies will come by then and probably will kill them.

I have been looking information about it up, but i don't know much of masonry and haven't found any detailed information about how a middle-age crowbar look like, and obviously crowbar is not meant for this.

Imo i wouldn't let them break out this way, but since it is something important for the game, i told them that i would check the details out, i always like to reward cool ideas like that, but i think that it is just impossible to do.
Also i personally think that according to his character background would be impossible for him to get an idea like that, and he wouldn't know how to do it neither ( we try to act and think like the actual characters always)

What do you guys think?

Thank you in advance and sorry for any mistakes i have made while writing, i am not proficient in english. :P

[Armored Walrus]

I don't think you need to have a very specialized background to come up with the idea "hit it with a hammer until it breaks." So I wouldn't worry about whether it is in character for him to have come up with this plan. Also, he's carrying a crowbar and a hammer, so presumably he knows something of how they work?

As far as whether it would be possible, it may be tough to break actual rock of any thickness by chiseling with a crowbar, but you could certainly damage the hinges enough. I've been wrecking the outside of my house over the last two weeks (putting up new siding, reframing a porch, took rook off said porch and reroofed it, etc.) and you may be surprised how much you can destroy with a crowbar and a couple hours to wield it.

It would make an awful clanging though, so it may cause your enemies to show up earlier than intended to check out all the noise.

[Mellack]

A lot of it depends on how you imagine the door being made and how the hinges are attached to the wall. Just off the top of my head, I doubt that they could break the stone very much, however I expect they could use the crowbar to pull the hinges out of the mountings. I picture it as being held in with bolts mortared into holes in the wall. Hammer the crowbar in behind the hinge and lever them out. The mortar would be softer than the stone, I believe.
The other option is to attack the door itself. Can they lever it out or break the hinges or locking mechanism? Depends on what it is made out of.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I don't think you need to have a very specialized background to come up with the idea "hit it with a hammer until it breaks." So I wouldn't worry about whether it is in character for him to have come up with this plan. Also, he's carrying a crowbar and a hammer, so presumably he knows something of how they work?

As far as whether it would be possible, it may be tough to break actual rock of any thickness by chiseling with a crowbar, but you could certainly damage the hinges enough. I've been wrecking the outside of my house over the last two weeks (putting up new siding, reframing a porch, took rook off said porch and reroofed it, etc.) and you may be surprised how much you can destroy with a crowbar and a couple hours to wield it.

It would make an awful clanging though, so it may cause your enemies to show up earlier than intended to check out all the noise.
I agree with all of this, pretty much. It depends on how the door is constructed, but if the hinges are at all accessible, it seems like you ought to be able to dig them out with that sort of setup, unless the crowbar is particularly crappy or the character particularly week.

[Armored Walrus]

Yeah, a raging barbarian with 18 strength, with 2 full hours to swing, could probably break quite a bit of rock. Of course, everyone in the cell might be deaf at the end of it.

[Laserlight]

If the hinges are on the inside (the door opens towards them), then it should be no problem to pull the hinge pins and take the door off the hinges. It's possible to have security hinges that prevent that but I wouldn't expect that unless there's some special reason why that room should be extra secure.

I wouldn't try breaking the stone; it's a lot easier to pry at the joints between stones.

As a DM, I'd have ruled "Okay, you're looking for ways to solve the problem, and you have tools. It takes [20 - your STR] minutes if you're not worried about making noise, twice that if you're trying to be quieter. The door's off its hinges, there's nobody outside waiting for you, what do you do?"

[SharkForce]

yeah... give me (an average schmuck who doesn't work out) a couple hours with a hammer and a crowbar and i can break a fair bit of rock (a pair of leather gloves are also recommended... speaking from personal experience as someone who actually has whacked a crowbar into rock before, you will get very sore hands if you don't have a pair of gloves).

given a couple of people, and especially if one of them is particularly strong, and i would expect to get to the hinges no problem.

though unless the door is made out of metal, i'm having a hard time imagining why they couldn't just get through that. (incidentally, if the door *is* made out of metal, they'd better have a plan to make sure it doesn't fall in on them, because a solid metal door is going to be extremely heavy).

[xroads]

As a DM, I'd have ruled "Okay, you're looking for ways to solve the problem, and you have tools. It takes [20 - your STR] minutes if you're not worried about making noise, twice that if you're trying to be quieter. The door's off its hinges, there's nobody outside waiting for you, what do you do?"

I'd probably do something like this. Only instead of only minutes, for cinematic purposes I'd have it take almost the full 2 hours. Giving the players mere moments to run, hide, or get ready for a fight.

[Willie the Duck]

Castle walls and doors (which is what D&D dungeons tend to emulate) are annoyingly hard to break down with just what a common soldier carried. That is, however, when there are people on top of the walls with rocks and arrows and boiling oil or whatever. If you're left unattended with levers and mechanical advantage and a hard, resilient striking surface, you will eventually break apart a stone surface (particularly one with a weak point, such as door hinges). The real issue is that there is no real way to do this quietly, as the entire point is to transmit force into a structural element of the dungeon, and one which readily transmits sound.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure you could get the door off it's hinges before you destroy your crowbar, and probably within 2 hours. Your hands will be bloody and you will be exhausted (potentially not the best fighting conditions), but I see it as doable. Same for the PCs in this situation.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Anyways, I'm pretty sure you could get the door off it's hinges before you destroy your crowbar, and probably within 2 hours. Your hands will be bloody and you will be exhausted (potentially not the best fighting conditions), but I see it as doable. Same for the PCs in this situation.
Remember: When in doubt, the PCs are more bad*** than you.

[smcmike]

With a good crowbar and hammer and a couple of hours, a strong man should be able to get through any door that wasn't specifically designed to prevent it. Taking apart construction is the entire purpose for a crowbar.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

Should work fine.

[Beleriphon]

With a good crowbar and hammer and a couple of hours, a strong man should be able to get through any door that wasn't specifically designed to prevent it. Taking apart construction is the entire purpose for a crowbar.

I can attest to the power of a good pry bar. I had to demolition a house and pulled apart tongue-and-groove wall covering off using a pry bar which took no time at all. It also worked great for bring down the chimney.

[smcmike]

I can attest to the power of a good pry bar. I had to demolition a house and pulled apart tongue-and-groove wall covering off using a pry bar which took no time at all. It also worked great for bring down the chimney.

Though a sledge is more fun :)

[Ruslan]

It all hinges on [pun intended] whether the hinges are on the inside or outside of the door.

In the former case, the PCs are literally perfectly equipped for demolishing masonry. A crowbar and a hammer should do the work, if left alone for 2 hours. I would not even make them roll. But, if the designers of the cell had enough foresight to place the hinges on the other side (or just got lucky with the placement), the PCs will have to chisel through a solid rock wall, and I do not like their odds.

So basically it comes down to your decision as a DM. Decide where the hinges are, or let the dice decide for you, and go from there.


Yeah, a raging barbarian with 18 strength, with 2 full hours to swingNot really on-topic, but he can't maintain his rage by hitting a rock.

"The wall is not a worthy opponent."
- Tigress, Kung-Fu Panda 2

[JakOfAllTirades]

Crowbars are also called wrecking bars, for good reason.

[N810]

It all hinges on [pun intended] whether the hinges are on the inside or outside of the door.

In the former case, the PCs are literally perfectly equipped for demolishing masonry. A crowbar and a hammer should do the work, if left alone for 2 hours. I would not even make them roll. But, if the designers of the cell had enough foresight to place the hinges on the other side (or just got lucky with the placement), the PCs will have to chisel through a solid rock wall, and I do not like their odds.

So basically it comes down to your decision as a DM. Decide where the hinges are, or let the dice decide for you, and go from there.

Not really on-topic, but he can't maintain his rage by hitting a rock.

"The wall is not a worthy opponent."
- Tigress, Kung-Fu Panda 2

More relevant is that rages only last for a minute, until you get to the higher levels.