PDA

View Full Version : My warlock fixes



Garfunion
2016-10-23, 11:53 PM
Seeing as how this warlock thread has become a shouting match, I just wanted to post my suggested changes to the warlock class.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503557-Fixing-BladeLocks-via-Balancing

Pact Boon
At 3rd level, your otherworldly patron bestows a gift upon you for your loyal service. You gain one of the following features of your choice.

If you lose your patron's gift, you can perform a 1--hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and it destroys the previous gift. The gift turns to ash when you die.

Pact of the Chain
Your patron gives you a small length of chain that you may use as an arcane focus. While the chain is in your possession you may cast the find familiar spell as a ritual, without spending the material component cost. This spell does not count against your number of spells known.

When you cast find familiar spell with the chain, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite.

Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its reaction.

Pact of the Blade
Your patron gives you a melee weapon of your choice. You are proficient with it while you wield it and you may use this weapon as an arcane focus.
While wielding your pact weapon, hostile creatures within 5 feet of you do not impose disadvantage on your ranged spell attack rolls.
You can transform one magic melee weapon into your pact weapon or choose a different weapon by performing the same ritual, as if you lost your patron's gift. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. A magic weapon ceases being your pact weapon if you die and it does not turn to ash.

Pact of the Tome
Your patron gives you a grimoire called a Book of Shadows, that you may use as an arcane focus. When you gain this feature, choose three cantrips from any class’s spell list (the three needn’t be from the same list). While the book is on your person, you can cast those cantrips at will. They don’t count against your number of cantrips known. If they don’t appear on the warlock spell list, they are nonetheless warlock spells for you.

Eldritch Invocations
If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.

Bane Blade
Prerequisite: Pact of the Blade feature
Your pact weapon becomes magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
Additionally when you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature gains disadvantage on one attack roll made against you until the end of its turn.

Chain of Control
Prerequisite: Pact of the Chain feature
When you hit a creature with eldritch blast, you can pull the creature up to 10 feet toward you in a straight line.

Cursed Gift
You may use a bonus action to summon your patron's gift (if it is on the same plane of existence you are on), causing it to teleport instantly to your empty hand. If you have lost your patron's gift it will appears near you after you complete a long rest.

Lifedrinker
Removed

Unquenchable Blade
Prerequisite: 11th level, Pact of the Blade feature
When you cast a cantrip with an attack roll, you may replace two attack roll with a melee attack using your pact weapon. The damage type of your pact weapon attack matches that of the cantrip this turn.
This invocation does not stack with thirsting blade invocation.

Thirsting Blade
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
When you cast a cantrip with an attack roll, you may replace one attack roll with a melee attack using your pact weapon. The damage type of your pact weapon attack matches that of the cantrip this turn

Toadkiller
2016-10-24, 12:31 AM
It might help to know what you see as needing to be fixed.

Aembrosia
2016-10-24, 12:54 AM
:help: There is no context necessary as i see it. No question was asked. No feedback invited.

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 01:11 AM
I added some context to my post and I'm open to suggestions if my changes are to powerful.

djreynolds
2016-10-24, 02:27 AM
I added some context to my post and I'm open to suggestions if my changes are to powerful.

I'm unsure if disadvantage is too powerful, a monk must spend a KI point to dodge or a fighter has to take the dodge action.

Also you may want them to hit you with the Armor of Agathys up and running

Give it something of a save, perhaps landing a strike with this weapon... any other nearby enemy with in 5ft must pass a wisdom or have fear or disadvantage...something like that

I do like the no disadvantage in melee with a ranged spell while holding your pact weapon... like a jedi with a lightsaber and a blaster... that's cool... and could be OP in conjunction with repelling blast

But its your changes and they add some flavor, I would use them.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-10-24, 08:16 AM
So the big thing I (subjectively) dislike is that you've made Pact of the Blade the premier blaster pact-- you can now use Eldrich Blast in melee, or shoot it off then swing a sword/shoot a bow for one extra attack. In other words (objectively) you've taken the most powerful Warlock feature and made it moreso, which is usually not a great sign.

Bane Blade is probably okay, as it's mostly a single-target effect, but it's on the edge of too powerful. I also dislike moving the "magic weapon" bit away from the base effect, where I think it makes more thematic sense, but it's not likely to come up in play too much. Between this and the usual temporary HP buffs, you should be okay on the line.
Thirsting Blade... honestly, I might give it at 5th still anyway, just so you don't have to wait so long for your main schtick.
By folding more Bladelock stuff into invocations, you're made their path much more restrictive. They will take Agonizing Blast at 2nd, because they're the blaster pact now; then Bane Blade at 5th, Thirsting Blade at 7th, and Lifedrinker at 12th. They'll probably also want Fiendish Vigor for low-level survivability, meaning that their only "free" invocation (that's likely to see use) is at 9th. This was already sort of a problem, but by making them cantrip dependent and putting their defense in another invocation, you've made it worse.
Chains of Control is thematic but will never, ever be used-- an invocation for a crappy cantrip is not a good trade. Just throwing that out there. Maybe allow the familiar to attack after a successful pull?


So, uh, yeah, tl;dr: Blade Pact is hands-down the best offensive pact, and shines most when you're hiding in the back lines with Eldritch Blast and a heavy crossbow.

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 09:01 AM
Thanks for the feedback.
The main reason I changed pact of the Blade is to provide options for the player. Those who want to get into melee without focusing to much on weapon use may do so with agonizing blast and repelling blast invocations (hit and run tactics). And those who do want to focus on melee weapon use can pick up bane blade, thirsting blade, and lifedrinker invocations. I will probably revert thirsting blade to its original purpose, while bane blade is designed to give the warlock some additional defensive capability.

I will edit my original post after I decide on changes.

Waffle_Iron
2016-10-24, 09:49 AM
So the big thing I (subjectively) dislike is that you've made Pact of the Blade the premier blaster pact-- you can now use Eldrich Blast in melee, or shoot it off then swing a sword/shoot a bow for one extra attack. In other words (objectively) you've taken the most powerful Warlock feature and made it moreso, which is usually not a great sign.

Bane Blade is probably okay, as it's mostly a single-target effect, but it's on the edge of too powerful. I also dislike moving the "magic weapon" bit away from the base effect, where I think it makes more thematic sense, but it's not likely to come up in play too much. Between this and the usual temporary HP buffs, you should be okay on the line.
Thirsting Blade... honestly, I might give it at 5th still anyway, just so you don't have to wait so long for your main schtick.
By folding more Bladelock stuff into invocations, you're made their path much more restrictive. They will take Agonizing Blast at 2nd, because they're the blaster pact now; then Bane Blade at 5th, Thirsting Blade at 7th, and Lifedrinker at 12th. They'll probably also want Fiendish Vigor for low-level survivability, meaning that their only "free" invocation (that's likely to see use) is at 9th. This was already sort of a problem, but by making them cantrip dependent and putting their defense in another invocation, you've made it worse.
Chains of Control is thematic but will never, ever be used-- an invocation for a crappy cantrip is not a good trade. Just throwing that out there. Maybe allow the familiar to attack after a successful pull?


So, uh, yeah, tl;dr: Blade Pact is hands-down the best offensive pact, and shines most when you're hiding in the back lines with Eldritch Blast and a heavy crossbow.

I think these are all solid suggestions.
Based on this feedback alone, I'd make the following changes:

Pact Boon
At 3rd level, your otherworldly patron bestows a gift upon you for your loyal service. You gain one of the following features of your choice.

If you lose your patron's gift, you can perform a 1--hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and it destroys the previous gift. The gift turns to ash when you die.

Pact of the Chain
Your patron gives you a small length of chain that you may use as an arcane focus. While the chain is in your possession you may cast the find familiar spell as a ritual, without spending the material component cost. This spell does not count against your number of spells known.

When you cast find familiar spell with the chain, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite.

Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its reaction.

Pact of the Blade
Your patron gives you a melee weapon of your choice. You are proficient with it while you wield it and you may use this weapon as an arcane focus.

While wielding your pact weapon, hostile creatures within 5 feet of you do not impose disadvantage on your ranged spell attack rolls.

You can transform one melee magic weapon into your pact weapon or choose a different weapon by performing the same ritual, as if you lost your patron's gift. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way. A magic weapon ceases being your pact weapon if you die and it does not turn to ash.

Pact of the Tome
Your patron gives you a grimoire called a Book of Shadows, that you may use as an arcane focus. When you gain this feature, choose three cantrips from any class’s spell list (the three needn’t be from the same list). While the book is on your person, you can cast those cantrips at will. They don’t count against your number of cantrips known. If they don’t appear on the warlock spell list, they are nonetheless warlock spells for you.

Eldritch Invocations
If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.

Book of Ancient Secrets
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature
No change.

Chains of Carceri
Prerequisite: 15th level, Pact of the Chain feature
No change.

Chains of Control
Prerequisite: Pact of the Chain feature
When you hit a creature with eldritch blast, you can pull the creature up to 10 feet toward you in a straight line.

Cursed Gift
You may use a bonus action to summon your patron's gift (if it is on the same plane of existence you are on), causing it to teleport instantly to your empty hand. If you have lost your patron's gift it will appears near you after you complete a long rest.

Lifedrinker
Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature
No change.

Thirsting Blade
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
When you cast a cantrip with an attack roll, you may replace one attack roll with a melee attack using your pact weapon. The damage type of your pact weapon attack matches that of the cantrip this turn.

Voice of the Chain Master
Prerequisite: Pact of the Chain feature
No change.

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 12:58 PM
I have made a lot of changes to my original post to reflect the suggestion everyone has made.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-10-24, 01:14 PM
I'm not sure I understand the new Blade Pact Invocations... the idea, I guess, is that you can replace one bolt of Eldrich Blast with a melee attack? Unquenchable Blade at least functions this way, because I don't think any other cantrip has multiple attack rolls. How does Thirsting Blade work with, say, Ray of Frost, though?

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 01:32 PM
I'm not sure I understand the new Blade Pact Invocations... the idea, I guess, is that you can replace one bolt of Eldrich Blast with a melee attack? Unquenchable Blade at least functions this way, because I don't think any other cantrip has multiple attack rolls. How does Thirsting Blade work with, say, Ray of Frost, though?

By level 5, when you can choose thirsting blade invocation your eldritch blast can fire two bolts

Grod_The_Giant
2016-10-24, 02:03 PM
By level 5, when you can choose thirsting blade invocation your eldritch blast can fire two bolts
I get that, but you say "cantrip" in general. There are lots of cantrips that aren't Eldrich Blast and that have one attack roll with a rider effect.

I suggest wording more like "Thirsting Blade: When you cast a cantrip which normally requires a spell attack, you may make a weapon attack in its place. If you hit, the target takes normal weapon damage and the full effect of the cantrip; however, the cantrip deals one less die of damage than normal. For example, a 5th level Warlock wielding a shortsword could cast Ray of Frost, making an attack with their sword instead of the spell itself. If they hit, the target will take 1d6+4 damage from the weapon, only 1d8 cold damage from the cantrip, and have its speed reduced by 10ft."

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 02:10 PM
I get that, but you say "cantrip" in general. There are lots of cantrips that aren't Eldrich Blast and that have one attack roll with a rider effect.

It is worded in that way to account for new cantrips that may provide multiple attack rolls.

Garfunion
2016-10-24, 02:59 PM
Im moving this thread to the homebrew forum. So let this thread die