Is there a valid reason for pumping WIS for a martial druid?

[jdizzlean]

I have a Wild Shape specialist, not putting ranks into druid past 5, is there a valid reason to pump WIS instead of CON on those lvls that get that? in the same vein, to look for +con gear instead of +wis? the only reason I can see to pump WIS is for the Monks Belt, but that would simply allow a higher +AC at the expense of less hit points?

for reference, this is the build:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503621-3-5-Druid-advancement-questions

[sleepyphoenixx]

You should try to get your AC to a decent value if you expect to spend a lot of time in melee. Melee monsters tend to hit hard, so relying on hp alone is not a good idea.
A Monk's Belt with high Wis is the easiest and, most importantly, cheapest way to do that. Wild armor gets really expensive and doesn't stack with spells like Luminous Armor. More importantly it applies to touch AC, and a lot of really dangerous ranged touch spells don't care about hp.

Also Con doesn't really do much for you aside from increasing hp because it gets overridden by your forms score, and there simply comes a point where you have enough hp. You can also pretty easily get a ton of temporary hp for less effort than increasing Con.

So personally i'd invest it into Wis anyway. Better will saves and more AC are worth it, in addition to a few low level bonus spells. But mostly because there isn't really a better stat to invest into for a wild shaper.

[jdizzlean]

ok, that makes sense, thanks.

I can't get anymore bonus spells than I already have, I was just curious what would be a better attribute to build up.

xoxo

[Exocist]

Because Druid 20 Natural Spell is the best Martial Druid? :smalltongue:

All jokes aside, some of their low-level buff spells can still be useful due to their long duration, such as Magic Fang. While the bonuses granted aren't much, you're not losing anything by applying them, so it's a good idea to pump WIS just to be able to cast all the spells you have available.

[eggynack]

It's not huge, but there're always more spells. Three more wisdom and you get, say, snowshoes. Two more and maybe you start keeping up primal hunter, heart of air, or you use both slots for obscuring snow and snowsight. Two more and perhaps primal instincts or heart of water. And, if you use natural spell, then a bunch of short term stuff enters the possibility space. So, benefits exist. Just depends how much you value them. And, because strength and dexterity are still mediocre boosting targets, even on a mostly not druid, the associated opportunity cost is lower than in most cases.

[Vizzerdrix]

Shapesand control. Always have the correct barding for yout shape.

Or perhaps an unarmed swordsage dip for wis to AC?

[Necroticplague]

Because what else are you gonna put points in? INT is for people who don't have buffs+wild shape to give them big enough bonuses on the things that matter, you receive basically no benefit from CHA, STR and DEX are completely replaced by Wild Shaping, and the only thing CON does is give you HP at a not-particularly-high RoR.

[weckar]

CHA is replaced by Wild Shaping? Oh my...

Frankly, Int is not that bad a choice. I mean, get it high enough and you can replace the skill-monkey a.k.a. the only party member you haven't fully replaced yet.

[Jarmen4u]

CHA is replaced by Wild Shaping? Oh my...

No, those were two separate clauses:


you receive basically no benefit from CHA
STR and DEX are completely replaced by Wild Shaping


They weren't meant to be together. Hope that helped!

[sleepyphoenixx]

Frankly, Int is not that bad a choice. I mean, get it high enough and you can replace the skill-monkey a.k.a. the only party member you haven't fully replaced yet.

Not really, since most of the needed skills are cross-class for druids. Even if you start with an 18 and dump every attribute increase into Int you won't have enough points to completely replace a skillmonkey (while still getting the skills you need for druiding/MoMFing), and at best you'll be limited to half the ranks of one anyway so you'll never be more than a mediocre replacement unless you invest a lot of feats into getting these skills as class skills. It's just not worth it.

Wisdom on the other hand increases the part of the role you're already good at - perception. The value of high spot/listen really shouldn't be underestimated, and getting higher will saves out of the deal doesn't exactly hurt.
Leave the trapfinding, lockpicking and searching to someone else.

[Fouredged Sword]

Druids path level 10 need nothing past wis 18 and con 14+. Bonus wis is nice but not required. Bonus Con is likely a better focus as HP are useful.

That said wisdom boosts will saves. Willsaves are important.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Druids path level 10 need nothing past wis 18 and con 14+. Bonus wis is nice but not required. Bonus Con is likely a better focus as HP are useful.

That said wisdom boosts will saves. Willsaves are important.

I'd say you want at least Wis 19. For 9th level spells and because you need it for Dragon Wild Shape (unless you're going the Aberration route). 20 because uneven numbers are annoying.
And Con just for hp has a really bad cost-benefit ratio, and that's all it does for someone in wild shape. You can get more than enough temp hp through spells, which you get more of through higher wisdom. And that's not counting those you can get with a wizard or cleric ally. And temp HP from different sources stack.
Not to mention that very few druids aren't wearing a Monk's Belt.

[Fouredged Sword]

I was counting base, not modified. Starting at 14 and putting all your +1's into wis works just fine and let's you cast almost all your spells under disjunction. I would get at least a +4 item for wis and con.

Other than that you are likely better off putting your resources into other things like good items. You are not a wizard who gets a +6 int item and +5 book on top of a natural 18 int and all of his growth points in int.