What If Anakin Was Not Lessened With His Suit?

[ArlEammon]

What if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit but was able to use Force Lightning? Darth Vader, in this what if scenario, still has a disfigured face and one hand cut off, and his feat cut off, but can use Force Lightning. What would happen if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit?

[Morcleon]

Not a tremendous amount, honestly. Boba Fett would probably be dead, but that's the only big change I can think of that would result from him being able to use Force Lightning.

[Zaydos]

Depends. The reason he couldn't use force lightning, as I always heard it, wasn't just because he had 20% of his former potential, but because it would fry his suit. Would Force Lightning still fry his suit?

If yes... not much changes.

If no... he'd have survived the fight with the Emperor and the movies would have been much less emotionally satisfying and Episode VI would have lost all emotional impact. This would have ended the original trilogy on a sour note and tainted much of the fondness held for them, we'd probably have seen less late 80s and 90s space operas (so possibly no DS9, BSG, Babylon 5, Voyager, Firefly, etc), and most likely there'd be no prequel trilogy although in this age of reboots we might be getting a new A New Hope.

[ArlEammon]

Depends. The reason he couldn't use force lightning, as I always heard it, wasn't just because he had 20% of his former potential, but because it would fry his suit. Would Force Lightning still fry his suit?

If yes... not much changes.

If no... he'd have survived the fight with the Emperor and the movies would have been much less emotionally satisfying and Episode VI would have lost all emotional impact. This would have ended the original trilogy on a sour note and tainted much of the fondness held for them, we'd probably have seen less late 80s and 90s space operas (so possibly no DS9, BSG, Babylon 5, Voyager, Firefly, etc), and most likely there'd be no prequel trilogy although in this age of reboots we might be getting a new A New Hope.

Darth Vader basically has no suit, only new feet and a mask or something.

[Zaydos]

Darth Vader basically has no suit, only new feet and a mask or something.

He'd survive the battle with the Emperor. The in-universe effects of that would be rather unguessable because it's so huge and we don't have enough info on how redeemed Vader would act.

The RL effects are actually easier to guess. Also he'd look much less cool.

[Peelee]

Not a tremendous amount, honestly. Boba Fett would probably be dead, but that's the only big change I can think of that would result from him being able to use Force Lightning.

I'm a bit confused on this. Not only because Boba Fett died anyway, but that apparently it would have been Darth Vader that did it instead? I don't get it. Fett didn't fail Vader at any point. Dude tracked Solo down instantly, took the bounty, and was able to double-dip on the capture, which Vader didn't care about (hell, he even offered to have the Empire compensate him if he wasn't able to double-dip). Plus, it's not like Vader was stingy dealing out Force-manipulated death when he wanted.

What's the reasoning here, is my question?

[Morcleon]

I'm a bit confused on this. Not only because Boba Fett died anyway, but that apparently it would have been Darth Vader that did it instead? I don't get it. Fett didn't fail Vader at any point. Dude tracked Solo down instantly, took the bounty, and was able to double-dip on the capture, which Vader didn't care about (hell, he even offered to have the Empire compensate him if he wasn't able to double-dip). Plus, it's not like Vader was stingy dealing out Force-manipulated death when he wanted.

What's the reasoning here, is my question?

Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire (3 BBY). TLDR, Vader and Fett were fighting over a box. Vader had used the Force to lock Fett down, but had to let go since Fett had managed to kick the box over a cliff. A quick Force Lightning would have either killed or incapacitated (and probably later killed for betrayal) Fett so he wouldn't have been able to do anything to the box anyway.

Also, Boba Fett didn't actually die to the Sarlacc. He ended up crawling out and living for at least another 40 years.

[The Glyphstone]

Would he have even survived to the point of the movies, if he still had his full force potential? He was trained as a Sith, which means he would have betrayed and attempted to overthrow Palpatine if he thought he could win - and Anakin as an adult, with all his power and training, would probably have oustripped Palpy. Hes either the new Emperor, or dead.

[Peelee]

Boba Fett: Enemy of the Empire (3 BBY). TLDR, Vader and Fett were fighting over a box. Vader had used the Force to lock Fett down, but had to let go since Fett had managed to kick the box over a cliff. A quick Force Lightning would have either killed or incapacitated (and probably later killed for betrayal) Fett so he wouldn't have been able to do anything to the box anyway.

Also, Boba Fett didn't actually die to the Sarlacc. He ended up crawling out and living for at least another 40 years.

New canon, keep in mind. Unless Disney decides to go that way again, Fett's dead, and was never in danger of death by Vader.

[Morcleon]

New canon, keep in mind. Unless Disney decides to go that way again, Fett's dead, and was never in danger of death by Vader.

Legacy still has all of the fun stuff though. :smallbiggrin:

[Zaydos]

True, that'd be a pretty interesting thing. At what point would Vader have tried to rebel without the threat of death looming over him.

Now on one side you can take it from the films alone as Vader didn't have that ambition till he knew his son was alive. On the other you can assume that the reason Vader saw Luke as the perfect opportunity was that Vader knew Palpatine could auto-kill him and knew that with his aid Luke could kill Palpatine, and that Luke might very well still not kill him because father and son. Old EU pushes this towards the latter interpretation, which means either Vader would have killed Palpatine, or Palpatine would have had him murdered to prevent it.

[Peelee]

Legacy still has all of the fun stuff though. :smallbiggrin:

Damn straight it does. Let's have a hammock party with Legacy books while it's still warm!

[Dragonexx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHWqnFw4YY

[Prime32]

What if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit but was able to use Force Lightning? Darth Vader, in this what if scenario, still has a disfigured face and one hand cut off, and his feat cut off, but can use Force Lightning. What would happen if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit?
IIRC this is something that's gone back and forth over the years, and originally Vader's suit was said to make him stronger.

As for Force Lightning, I figure Vader just never learned how to do it (or wasn't evil enough to do it) - he's trained as a Jedi, not a Sith.

[danzibr]

Wait... 20% of his potential? What?

[Yael]

Legacy still has all of the fun stuff though. :smallbiggrin:

Those silly Yuuzang Vong :smallsmile:

[digiman619]

What if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit but was able to use Force Lightning? Darth Vader, in this what if scenario, still has a disfigured face and one hand cut off, and his feat cut off, but can use Force Lightning. What would happen if Darth Vader was not weakened by his suit?

I have read most of the original EU, and I don't recall ever reading that the suit weakened him (it's essentially a giant prosthesis), and Force Lightning was never in his move set. You do realize than not every Sith gets Force Lightning, right? You didn't notice Palpatine Force Choking people, so why would Vader get Force Lightning?

[Zaydos]

I have read most of the original EU, and I don't recall ever reading that the suit weakened him (it's essentially a giant prosthesis), and Force Lightning was never in his move set. You do realize than not every Sith gets Force Lightning, right? You didn't notice Palpatine Force Choking people, so why would Vader get Force Lightning?

It was Lucas interviews (not EU) that mentioned the suit weakening him, because the Force is generated by living things (as the OT tells us) or because he lost his midichlorians (as Phantom Menace would tell us).

We are also told that he couldn't ever use Force Lightning because it would have fried his respirator and killed him (which is how he died in the end of Episode VI). Of course we also get Shadows of the Empire where Vader is trying to heal his own wounds and rages about how they weaken him (less so in Force connection) and temporarily heals himself through sheer rage, which mostly gets mentioned because the reason Force Lightning, unlike Force Choking (which Luke does in Episode VI), is Dark Side only is because it literally is manifest hate.

[Grytorm]

I've always assumed when I have thought about it, not much. Maybe this is the first time. But anyway. My thought is that he hasn't betrayed the Emperor because he doesn't really care to. After Padme's death and the loss of his limbs I would think he serves the Emperor less because he believes in the ideal and more because he refuses to move beyond his loss and his new role as a servant of Palpatine. He doesn't use Force Lightning because he although ruthless and cruel can't muster quite the right amount of hatred to do so. He cares almost nothing for others, but he doesn't hate them.

[Peelee]

It was Lucas interviews (not EU) that mentioned the suit weakening him, because the Force is generated by living things (as the OT tells us)


For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

Life creates it and makes it grow, yes, but non-life doesn't appear to pose any difficulties to it. According to OT movie-only canon, that is. The crude matter of Vader's prosthetics shouldn't hinder his abilities, according to Yoda.

[Keltest]

Life creates it and makes it grow, yes, but non-life doesn't appear to pose any difficulties to it. According to OT movie-only canon, that is. The crude matter of Vader's prosthetics shouldn't hinder his abilities, according to Yoda.

I always assumed it was the fact that he was dismembered and horribly scarred, both physically and mentally, that weakened him. The armor was incidental to that, and he would be just as weak sitting in a wheelchair inside his special environment pod where he could take off his mask.

Having said that, the movies don't make it especially clear what "strong in the force" looks like compared to, I guess your average jedi? Anakin does some fairly impressive acts of telekinesis, but nothing that goes above and beyond what Obi-Wan was doing, and he never does like Force Lightning or any other fairly unique techniques like Yoda and Dooku do.

[Traab]

From what I understood, anakins suit basically made him mobile, but he was in endless pain, his wounds never healing properly. Obviously thats going to have an effect on his physical and mental abilities. Also, force lightning would short out his suit, and in fact did so in the movie. On the other hand, his suit also acted as power armor, giving him greater strength and durability. Didnt lukes lightsaber bounce off him once during their fight?

As for it changing events, thats hard to tell. He still would be dealing with the "fact" that he murdered his wife and unborn child and was "betrayed" by the jedi order. His personality may not have changed all that much from suit wearing anakin. Its entirely possible his depression would have kept him the easily manipulated second in command until luke showed up to redeem him. He probably would have survived the final fight. And in the end that may have made things a bit easier. "Vader" could have taken over as emperor, with his son and daughter by his side hopefully, then started working to make the empire a better place and the rebellion less popular.