Darth Vader vs Shao Kahn

[ArlEammon]

Darth Vader is a vastly powerful Sith, a master light saber duelist and whiner. Shao Kahn is a master sorcerer, master wrath hammer wielder, and all around bad ass war lord. Both of these characters are unusually difficult to defeat. Shao Kahn is arguably more "powerful", with his sorcery and physical power. However, he has no defense against Force choke that I am aware of, and a light saber seems as if it can slice through his Wrath Hammer. Shao Kahn is obviously faster, in addition to having sheer muscle power that is quite immense. He is capable of crushing most if not all Mortal Kombat characters, many of them, although not most, physically improved over Star War's characters.

Darth Vader hunted down dozens if not many scores of Jedi throughout the Star Wars universe. His telekinetic powers are immense, and easily capable of destroying entire Star Ships. While Shao Kahn drained the souls of Earth in Mortal Kombat II, his conventional means of fighting can't compare to Darth Vader's force push. Yet on Shao Kahn's benefits, Shao Kahn won't necessarily be one shotted with any of Darth Vader's attacks. He knows not to let Anakin slice him up with the weird laser sword. Nor will he let Darth Vader attack him, necessarily, with his Dark Side attacks. Once Shao Kahn sees Darth Vader attacking him with Force Push or a Force Choke, he won't let it happen again, he isn't stupid and indeed, Shao Kahn is a sorcerer himself.

[Traab]

I dont think force choke is a factor here, you pretty much never see it tried in mid battle, and the focus required to do it means you arent concentrating on NOT being crushed by a spiked sledgehammer. Or shoulder charged by a guy with spiked shoulder guards, or having a lance of green energy thrown through your belly. The lightsaber thing is an issue but its a tough one to decide as his hammer isnt just a 20 pound chunk of steel. Im pretty sure is mystically enhanced and such so it becomes a big game of author fiat as to whether it gets chopped to bits or not.

[ArlEammon]

We must remember that Darth Vader's force push and telekinetic powers are a huge factor here too. Starships aren't a thing in Mortal Kombat, as far as we know, but organs, flesh and bone are, and if Vader and do that, or even cause a ship like that to crash as he has been shown too, he can certainly annihilate a Human body easily.

[HolyDraconus]

Kahn stomps. Just on experience alone he beats old anakin. Add in near immortality, straight up magic, physical prowess and the whole EATING SOULS thing and there's nothing Vader can do. Worse, Vader may be one of the few that Kahn can speed blitz

[Rakaydos]

Kahn stomps. Just on experience alone he beats old anakin. Add in near immortality, straight up magic, physical prowess and the whole EATING SOULS thing and there's nothing Vader can do. Worse, Vader may be one of the few that Kahn can speed blitz

How do you SpeedBlitz someone who can block bullets with a sword?

[Traab]

How do you SpeedBlitz someone who can block bullets with a sword?


Vadar doesnt block blaster shots through speed, he does it through force precognition, meaning he starts his block before the trigger gets pulled because he knows where the attack is going ahead of time. And he speed blitzes vader the same way anyone speed blitzes their opponent. By being much faster than they are.

[Rakaydos]

Vadar doesnt block blaster shots through speed, he does it through force precognition, meaning he starts his block before the trigger gets pulled because he knows where the attack is going ahead of time. And he speed blitzes vader the same way anyone speed blitzes their opponent. By being much faster than they are.

My point is that with a weapon as potent as a lightsaber, Darth Vader doesnt need speed to confound a speed blitzer, simply by making sure his opponent would impale themselves if they tried getting close.

[HolyDraconus]

My point is that with a weapon as potent as a lightsaber, Darth Vader doesnt need speed to confound a speed blitzer, simply by making sure his opponent would impale themselves if they tried getting close.
Problem is though, is that Vader's opponent is Shao Kahn. Kahn has literal 1000s of years of combat experience: he can beat Vader's precog. His hammer IS magic, which is something Jedi and their like hasn't dealt with, but I see no reason why it would lose to the Saber: trade at absolute worst. But the nail is Vader's speed. He is SLOW. Like, PAINFULLY slow. Shao Kahn is NOT known for his speed (though he IS pretty damn fast) and can absolutely speed blitz Vader. Kahn also outmuscles Vader: He's a tank. There's nothing Vader has that will slow Kahn down. Force is neutralized by Magic. Saber by magic weapons. Lets not forget that Kahn has spears AND fireballs AND lasers, if range is needed.
Ultimately, if the two fought, Kahn will rush and crush. Vader just doesn't have enough to stand up to him. Hell, Kahn can out right EAT VADER'S SOUL. Vader's chances of winning is as high as him successfully using Magic.

[The Glyphstone]

You keep mentioning EATING SOULS in all capital letters - if this is some sort of ultimate trump card/unblockable instant-win attack, why isn't Shao Khan starting with that, rather than relying on brute force against someone who can see the future?


Also, as usual, this versus gets way more entertaining when you substitute Sher Khan for Shao Khan.

[Grand Arbiter]

Are Vader's Imperial assets being taken into account? A couple of star destroyers raining death from orbit could possibly kill this person without Vader even needing to do anything himself.

Also, can Shao Khan survive a vacuum?

[Traab]

You keep mentioning EATING SOULS in all capital letters - if this is some sort of ultimate trump card/unblockable instant-win attack, why isn't Shao Khan starting with that, rather than relying on brute force against someone who can see the future?


Also, as usual, this versus gets way more entertaining when you substitute Sher Khan for Shao Khan.

Eating souls is like force choke/crushing your opponent. Something you can only do if you have uninterrupted time to concentrate, and/or a weakened enemy. Thats why jedi generally dont crumple their opponents into crushed soda cans instead of wasting time waving a saber about. Same thing for soul devouring. Its a finishing move, which to me implies you have to beat your opponent into the ground before you can tear out his soul.

One thing that, if this was Deadliest Warrior, would count as an "X Factor" is that shao khan has fought cyborgs before. Vader has never faced an actual sorcerer. Shao Khan has seen telekinetic type powers before, vader has not seen some of the crazy magic khan can pull off. So shock value is going to be in khans favor in a fight.

[Kyberwulf]

I think people are over estimating the power the Force, like Anikin in episode 1. It is indeed powerful, in it's own world. But Force users can and do usually get overpowered. As Qui Gon responded to him.

Lightsabers are pretty powerful. however I think Shao Kahn has probably dealt with many different types of weapons.

The Force is pretty powerful, but then so is the Magic that Shao Kahn can use. Also Shao Kahn has a lot of weapons that he can use also.

Experience, I think Shao Kahn has a couple thousand years on Vader.

Physical Abilities, I think if this was Anakin, he would have a better shot. It has been stated that the suit hampers Vader, a little more then it actually helps. On Shao Kahn side, he has to much physical capabilities.

If Vader gets The Empire at his command, then Shao Kahn gets the ... what is it.... Whole Dimensions at his???

I think there is to much Hero (???) worship of Vader. Way to much emphasis on the Power of the Force.

[khadgar567]

some one mix shang tsung with shao khan tsun eats souls not khan my dear friends so darth vader vs shao khan has no business with soulnado on the throne room

as for how their fight goes my vote is on shao kahn side okay he is heavy weight with hammer and spirit spears and as much as we know about mortal kombat and star wars universes they have some similarities whole shang tsun is basicly sith emperor from kotor and kahn beats the tsun with out sweat so win goes to khan

[Traab]

some one mix shang tsung with shao khan tsun eats souls not khan my dear friends so darth vader vs shao khan has no business with soulnado on the throne room

as for how their fight goes my vote is on shao kahn side okay he is heavy weight with hammer and spirit spears and as much as we know about mortal kombat and star wars universes they have some similarities whole shang tsun is basicly sith emperor from kotor and kahn beats the tsun with out sweat so win goes to khan

Actually, they both do.


Shao Kahn the Konqueror is represented as the embodiment of evil. In many respects, he resembles a large Asian warrior, and is well known amongst the roster of Mortal Kombat Kombatants for his godlike strength which rivals, if not outright exceeds, that of Raiden, the God of Thunder. He is also known for his extreme callousness, brutality, ferocity in battle, and his fondness of personal executions, though he has occasionally spared the lives of his subordinates, if they prove their worth, and his victims such as Sindel and Kitana, raising the latter like his own daughter and treating the former like his own wife. However, his true power that has served him well and allowed him to rise above the image of a mere warlord is his high intelligence and profound knowledge of the black arts. Like his subordinate Shang Tsung, he has the power to consume other souls.

[Mato]

Are Vader's Imperial assets being taken into account? A couple of star destroyers raining death from orbit could possibly kill this person without Vader even needing to do anything himself.I'd say if Vader gets his underlings than Shao Kahn does to.

And after teleporting them in, you have Storm Troopers who can't hit anything facing Tarkata warriors, ninjas, and sorcerers whom have have successfully conquered numerous realms. Including Earth which had gun toting nuke happy countries like America.


Lightsabers are pretty powerful. however I think Shao Kahn has probably dealt with many different types of weapons.Which include at least two cyborgs (http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Pulse_Blade) that use light sabers (http://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Sabre_of_Light) and other stuff like teleportation, invisibility, bombs, nets, missiles, and other assorted weaponry on top of being mystical magic-using ninjas before their transformation.

[Traab]

I think he means freaking star destroyers and such which shao khan has no real counter against. Orbital bombardment is a bit beyond his tech level. I dunno, MAYBE you could argue for portals being opened up somehow to the bridge of the ships and such but eh, if they both got to bring their full empires, shao would then be boned. All his troops are ground bound, air to air at best. And while I would put a reasonable sum of money on his chances at winning a land war in asia, he wouldnt be able to handle a fleet of destroyers obliterating the crust of the planet around him.

[HolyDraconus]

I think he means freaking star destroyers and such which shao khan has no real counter against. Orbital bombardment is a bit beyond his tech level. I dunno, MAYBE you could argue for portals being opened up somehow to the bridge of the ships and such but eh, if they both got to bring their full empires, shao would then be boned. All his troops are ground bound, air to air at best. And while I would put a reasonable sum of money on his chances at winning a land war in asia, he wouldnt be able to handle a fleet of destroyers obliterating the crust of the planet around him.

Kahn has literally entire dimensions worth of troops. No amount of superior firepower can overcome that much zerg rush.

[khadgar567]

Actually, they both do.
thank for info


I think he means freaking star destroyers and such which shao khan has no real counter against. Orbital bombardment is a bit beyond his tech level. I dunno, MAYBE you could argue for portals being opened up somehow to the bridge of the ships and such but eh, if they both got to bring their full empires, shao would then be boned. All his troops are ground bound, air to air at best. And while I would put a reasonable sum of money on his chances at winning a land war in asia, he wouldnt be able to handle a fleet of destroyers obliterating the crust of the planet around him.


Kahn has literally entire dimensions worth of troops. No amount of superior firepower can overcome that much zerg rush.
@traab and @Holydraconus lets not forget mortal kombat decree by any side rule

[Traab]

Kahn has literally entire dimensions worth of troops. No amount of superior firepower can overcome that much zerg rush.

But if none of them can reach space, what good are his trillions of troops? You can have a bazillion zealots if you like, but against one battlecruiser they are useless. It will just take a long time to murder them all.

[khadgar567]

But if none of them can reach space, what good are his trillions of troops? You can have a bazillion zealots if you like, but against one battlecruiser they are useless. It will just take a long time to murder them all.
well the fun starts after some one declare mortal kombat on khans side then khan gains acces to ships troopers and galaxy worth souls due each side must choose some warriors to represent them which means tsun gains souls and hello new batch of tarkatan warriors who can use force and know how to drive imperial transports which means khan gets space

[Kyberwulf]

Meh, just because they would be in space doesn't mean they are unreachable. We don't know how far they can teleport, and a lot of the characters can teleport easily enough. It is magic after all. Not only that, they can jump dimensions. We also don't really know for a fact if there isn't any space faring abilities in Shao Kahn's empire. Not to mention how many of the Troops in Darth's empire could be turned. I mean, after all. Vader rules through intimidation and fear. His troops upon seeing that magical abilities of not only Shao Kahn, but also of most of his shock troopers. They would be less willing to die for him. Where as Kahn's troops have, more then likely, seen anything Vader's troops can throw at them. I mean, if you look at the humans, and based our levels of tech off them. I don't think we would have an air force. I mean I don't recall anyone flying planes in the game. We also would have cybernectics abound.

I mean for the most part. On a one for one basis, Kahn's troops are the same as Kahn vs Vader.

They have more physical power, more eperience, .. just generally more everything. I mean, most of Kahn's troops can literally rip people apart.

Vader's troops are pretty much Humans, with laser guns... If Vader's empire wasn't solely based on humans, I don't know maybe? But, even then, most of the alien's in the Star War's universe aren't overtly superpowered.

[The Glyphstone]

That is a point worth considering, I think. We don't know if any of the universes Khan has conquered have space-age tech because we only ever see him when Mortal Kombat has been declared, the rules of which forbid him from using any of his giant armies. If he doesn't, then declaring Mortal Kombat is definitely in his best interest (an interesting inversion over the usual scenario of the games, where Kombat tournaments are meant as a defensive measure to stop the Realm in question from being zerg rushed).




well the fun starts after some one declare mortal kombat on khans side then khan gains acces to ships troopers and galaxy worth souls due each side must choose some warriors to represent them which means tsun gains souls and hello new batch of tarkatan warriors who can use force and know how to drive imperial transports which means khan gets space

Punctuation and capital letters exist. Please?

[khadgar567]

That is a point worth considering, I think. We don't know if any of the universes Khan has conquered have space-age tech because we only ever see him when Mortal Kombat has been declared, the rules of which forbid him from using any of his giant armies. If he doesn't, then declaring Mortal Kombat is definitely in his best interest (an interesting inversion over the usual scenario of the games, where Kombat tournaments are meant as a defensive measure to stop the Realm in question from being zerg rushed).
still he just needs few wins in tournament then its zerg rush time

[Leewei]

Also, as usual, this versus gets way more entertaining when you substitute Sher Khan for Shao Khan.

Heh heh.

Okay, on that note, I propose Darth Vader vs. Sho'nuff.

[Traab]

That is a point worth considering, I think. We don't know if any of the universes Khan has conquered have space-age tech because we only ever see him when Mortal Kombat has been declared, the rules of which forbid him from using any of his giant armies. If he doesn't, then declaring Mortal Kombat is definitely in his best interest (an interesting inversion over the usual scenario of the games, where Kombat tournaments are meant as a defensive measure to stop the Realm in question from being zerg rushed).




Punctuation and capital letters exist. Please?

All of his troops so far have been pretty sword and sorcery heavy. At best some magical cyborgs. And you cant just say, "Well im sure he has SOME space age tech" Because we never see or read about him having them. Honestly, unless someone can post a link showing him having the ability to deal with an interstellar armada I have to stick with my opinion that his first sign that he is screwed is when lances of energy fall from heaven and destroy him and everyone with him. So its best to keep it to one on one as at least then there would be a fight.

[The Glyphstone]

All of his troops so far have been pretty sword and sorcery heavy. At best some magical cyborgs. And you cant just say, "Well im sure he has SOME space age tech" Because we never see or read about him having them. Honestly, unless someone can post a link showing him having the ability to deal with an interstellar armada I have to stick with my opinion that his first sign that he is screwed is when lances of energy fall from heaven and destroy him and everyone with him. So its best to keep it to one on one as at least then there would be a fight.

Yeah. I was saying that if his troops are all like the ones we know of, then there's a strong in-character reason for the fight to be one-on-one, rather than fiat; the rules of Shao Khan's own setting permit duel-of-champion setups to settle clashes between universes. Without the rather clumsy fiat of denying Shao Khan any knowledge of his opponent, he's going to at least know Vader's universe has technology he can't match, so the first thing he'll do is declare Mortal Kombat instead of launching a conventional invasion in the first place. It seems like Khan has as much of an overwhelming advantage in 1v1 as Vader would have in a clash of armies, but versus matches can't all be balanced clashes against equal opponents.


Thus, a new and equally important question must be answered. Who are the remaining champions of the Star Wars universe in this new tournament?

[ArlEammon]

I guess Palpatine, Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren?

[Sholos]

What happens if Shao Khan declares Mortal Kombat and Vader (or really just the Imperial military) just ignores it?

[ArlEammon]

I don't know, but it would be like the United States ignoring declarations of war from Singapore.

[Traab]

What happens if Shao Khan declares Mortal Kombat and Vader (or really just the Imperial military) just ignores it?

I think they have no choice, if they refuse to accept mortal kombat, then shao khan can just start invading. Otherwise it makes no freaking sense. "Hey, wanna fight to see who gets to own your dimension? No? Ok, bye."

[The Glyphstone]

I thought that was what the Elder Gods were for, to enforce that sort of thing? There's no advantage for Khan to issue the challenge against a realm his armies could conquer conventionally, but he always does, so I figured it was just a setting rule that Kombat is the only Elder God-Approved method of inter-universal conquest.

[Traab]

I thought that was what the Elder Gods were for, to enforce that sort of thing? There's no advantage for Khan to issue the challenge against a realm his armies could conquer conventionally, but he always does, so I figured it was just a setting rule that Kombat is the only Elder God-Approved method of inter-universal conquest.

Yeah the elder gods keep him from just taking over everything, but lets say he comes to earth realm and is like, "Yo, I wanna challenge you to mortal kombat for the right to rule this dimension." If Raiden goes, "No thanks." Is Shao Khan really left with no choice but to find someone stupid enough to agree to gamble his realm? I get the feeling there is a big case of either or involved in this. You have two choices, either anyone capable of invading your realm is allowed to do it whenever he wants, or you have to fight him champion against champion to keep him out. Because if it actually worked out that you could just go "no thanks" and shao khan can never try to conquer your realm that would just make literally everyone who agrees stupid as hell.

[Kyberwulf]

Well, I am sorry. If you can't post a resource that says they definitively don't HAVE space capabilities. You can't say they don't have the ability. Besides. It has been shown they have the ability to teleport. They could just teleport onto the star ships.

[Traab]

Well, I am sorry. If you can't post a resource that says they definitively don't HAVE space capabilities. You can't say they don't have the ability. Besides. It has been shown they have the ability to teleport. They could just teleport onto the star ships.

Sorry, you cant prove a negative therefore its a faulty argument to try and make someone do it. Show me any source outside of fanfictions that gives shao khan or any realm he has taken over (there are lots) that has space faring capability and I will withdraw my objection. Theoretically they could teleport onto the ships. Assuming they can even tell where to go. And even if they do, what are they going to do once they take over? They wouldnt know thrust control from trash disposal. Plus regular star destroyers are a mile long a half mile wide and have lord knows how many decks, the super star destroyers are even larger at NINETEEN KILOMETERS. Each ship would be like conquering its own small nation to take over. The sheer scale of facing the imperial navy makes the idea of defeating it through boarding actions laughable.

At least in a one on one fight I would call it a worthy battle. Empire versus empire and it becomes a game of how long shao khans forces take to die.

[Mato]

I think he means freaking star destroyers and such which shao khan has no real counter against.

And after teleporting them in, you have Storm Troopers who can't hit anything facing Tarkata warriors, ninjas, and sorcerers whom have have successfully conquered numerous realms. :smallsigh:
What you really mean is Vader has no means to counter teleportation magic.

Star War's universe doesn't even believe in other planes and have never explored outside of their own Galaxy. So it'd be Shao Kahn initiating the fight. Any invasion portals would under Khan's control as part of his invasion.


Sorry, you cant prove a negative therefore its a faulty argument to try and make someone do it.Exactly Traab, if you can't prove Shao Kahn has lost to space faring civilizations then don't even try to make an faulty argument otherwise.

[Kyberwulf]

I am sorry, you are running on a faulty assumption that this is a "Sword and Sorcery" world. When the world makes HUGE leaps in technology in the games, from first game to the last game. Cybernetic components, advanced weaponry. Show me anywhere, where it explicitly states they don't have space capability.

Shao Kahn's is a realm full of wizards, vs a galaxy of Fighters.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah the elder gods keep him from just taking over everything, but lets say he comes to earth realm and is like, "Yo, I wanna challenge you to mortal kombat for the right to rule this dimension." If Raiden goes, "No thanks." Is Shao Khan really left with no choice but to find someone stupid enough to agree to gamble his realm? I get the feeling there is a big case of either or involved in this. You have two choices, either anyone capable of invading your realm is allowed to do it whenever he wants, or you have to fight him champion against champion to keep him out. Because if it actually worked out that you could just go "no thanks" and shao khan can never try to conquer your realm that would just make literally everyone who agrees stupid as hell.

I was assuming by the same rules that force Shao Khan to issue the challenge, Raiden isn't allowed to refuse - the Elder Gods are impartial towards either side and just make sure the forms are enforced.

[Sholos]

I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that Shao Kahn doesn't have space flight capabilities. Then again, it's never explicitly stated that Vader is incapable of magic, either, is it?


I was assuming by the same rules that force Shao Khan to issue the challenge, Raiden isn't allowed to refuse - the Elder Gods are impartial towards either side and just make sure the forms are enforced.

So wait, if you're challenged, you're not allowed to take your chances with the mass regular combat? I mean, sure, it might be the wrong decision, but surely the challenged Realm gets the choice, no?

Also, hasn't Kahn canonically lost to Liu Kang on multiple occasions? He's not unbeatable.

[Misery Esquire]

Shao Khan can't punch space ships.
Nuh uh. We've never seen that he loses to space ships.
Yah huh, we've never seen him fight spaceships. We don't know that he can jump into space.
Nah uh. No spaceships ever shown = he can punch spaceships.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No, no, no, no.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

There. I held the next bunch of "argument" on SK v. space for you. Next points of interest in the fight, please!

EDIT--

Also ; wouldn't Shao Kahn getting to invade the Star Wars realm instead of MORTAL KOOOOMBAT'ing the champions just lead to SK's hordes versus Star Destroyers, anyway?

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that Shao Kahn doesn't have space flight capabilities. Then again, it's never explicitly stated that Vader is incapable of magic, either, is it?



So wait, if you're challenged, you're not allowed to take your chances with the mass regular combat? I mean, sure, it might be the wrong decision, but surely the challenged Realm gets the choice, no?

That's the problem, we don't know. Considering the entire MK universe exists to excuse a fighting arcade game, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find the rules go both ways, and that it's just as forbidden to refuse an honorable challenge as it is to fail to issue one. Presumably there's also some penalty for losing a challenge though, like having to wait a thousand years before you try again or something. I dunno.

[Traab]

Whatever guys, I dont know why you insist on literally making up capabilities but thats not how things work. You cant just proclaim a character in a versus matchup has a power/ability/resource without backing it up with canon facts. Otherwise I would just say, "The winner is wolverine, because he has the ability to teleport into the middle of any fight and kill everyone." And have just as much logic in that claim as you people and your space faring shao khan claims. Either show me a link to shao khan owning any sort of space travel ability/gear/realm, or just admit he doesnt have that and move on.

If you want to argue the teleportation thing, fine, maybe thats something he could try. Now he has to transport enough troops to take down 25,000 ships, each with a sizeable army on board them that probably are about as large as a city each if you take decks into account. You know, before they instantly obliterate whatever planet he is currently standing on.

[The Glyphstone]

If he's traveling between universes to begin with, though, why does he have to make a stop on a planet? Couldn't his dimensional beachhead be the Star Destroyers themselves, since they are the actual territory of value to be fought over in this instance?

Incidentally, since I was idly curious, apparently a Star destroyer carries 9,700 Stormtroopers on board.

[Kyberwulf]

Using cannon as facts. Prove that they Don't have the capabilities.

You are the one making the assumption Vader travels around with his entire Empire.

[Traab]

Using cannon as facts. Prove that they Don't have the capabilities.

You are the one making the assumption Vader travels around with his entire Empire.

Someone made the altered challenge of empire versus empire. And using cannon as facts, prove they Do have the capabilities. Or else we are back to "Wolverine wins because he has the power to teleport into any fight he chooses and insta kill everyone else. Go ahead, use cannon to prove he Doesnt have that ability. "

[HolyDraconus]

Let's say that a planet has 6 trillion people on it, and the known SW empire controls 6 trillion planets. That's ONE universe. Kahn controls far more than one. Boarding destroyers when taken into context is actually a valid strategy with the numbers Kahn has at his disposal.

[Misery Esquire]

Using cannon as facts. Prove that they Don't have the capabilities.

You are the one making the assumption Vader travels around with his entire Empire.


Someone made the altered challenge of empire versus empire. And using cannon as facts, prove they Do have the capabilities. Or else we are back to "Wolverine wins because he has the power to teleport into any fight he chooses and insta kill everyone else. Go ahead, use cannon to prove he Doesnt have that ability. "

:smallamused:


Shao Khan can't punch space ships.
Nuh uh. We've never seen that he loses to space ships.
Yah huh, we've never seen him fight spaceships. We don't know that he can jump into space.
Nah uh. No spaceships ever shown = he can punch spaceships.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
No, no, no, no.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I feel strangely proud, but more-so bemused.

[Forum Explorer]

Let's say that a planet has 6 trillion people on it, and the known SW empire controls 6 trillion planets. That's ONE universe. Kahn controls far more than one. Boarding destroyers when taken into context is actually a valid strategy with the numbers Kahn has at his disposal.

Not necessarily, because not all dimensions are equal. I mean, apparently Earth is the center of our dimension (in MK) which is, well stupid to take literally. Either out universe is pretty much empty of any other civilization, or dimensions are basically limited to a single world in the MK universe.


But onto Shao Kahn vs Vader, I want to point out that Vader isn't that slow. He can and does keep up with Luke after he's incased in armor, and even manages to 'catch' Han's blaster bolts. I think his slowness is more a factor of being unable to run and jump. But the speed of his arms and reactions is just fine.

[Friv]

That's the problem, we don't know. Considering the entire MK universe exists to excuse a fighting arcade game, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find the rules go both ways, and that it's just as forbidden to refuse an honorable challenge as it is to fail to issue one. Presumably there's also some penalty for losing a challenge though, like having to wait a thousand years before you try again or something. I dunno.
I went to double check this, and unsurprisingly the rules change constantly from game to game.

In MKI, Mortal Kombat was an Earth tradition that Shang Tsung took advantage of; by winning a tournament every 50 years for five hundred years straight, he and Goro could open the way for Shao Khan to mystically conquer Earth.

In MKII, the tournament can be held on Outworld, and if Shao Khan wins it there he gets Earth right away.

In MKIII, Shao Khan cheat, has his dead wife returned to life on Earth, enters Earth to claim her (which apparently he's allowed to do under Elder God rules) and then instantly kills everyone on Earth who isn't a mystical warrior or protected by mystical powers. Note that Shao Khan can apparently kill billions in an instant as of this game. However, when Shao Khan is killed and Earth returns from Outworld, everyone he killed comes back to life.

After that, it's all "people using Elder God powers to subvert Elder God rules" for a few games (MKIV, Deadly Alliance, and Deception) during which almost everyone dies. The Elder Gods get pissy and hold a super-tournament to kill off all the fighters who are getting too strong, which they have to fight because shut up.

Then there's a time travel bit, and Raiden tries to redo the first three games while getting a better ending. This time around, Shao Khan successfully kills everyone in MKIII, at which point he discovers that his "cunning" trick was not so cunning and the Elder Gods obliterate him for invading Earth, leaving Raiden and the survivors to rebuild. Except that it goes back to Elder God shenanigans, just in different ways.

[HolyDraconus]

Not necessarily, because not all dimensions are equal. I mean, apparently Earth is the center of our dimension (in MK) which is, well stupid to take literally. Either our universe is pretty much empty of any other civilization, or dimensions are basically limited to a single world in the MK universe.


But onto Shao Kahn vs Vader, I want to point out that Vader isn't that slow. He can and does keep up with Luke after he's incased in armor, and even manages to 'catch' Han's blaster bolts. I think his slowness is more a factor of being unable to run and jump. But the speed of his arms and reactions is just fine.

That goes back to hand waving. The only thing we can be sure of is how big a fleet Vader has at his height, and that Shao Kahn has numerous dimensions under his control. Earth being the center of our dimension makes some sense, in the way that we don't know of extraterrestrial life forms (supposedly), and automatically assume we are alone. The SW universe assumes life on other planets and reflects that. There is no proof, either way, that any of Kahn's dimensions have E.T.s... except... we can... with Outworld. And technically, my statement stands. Even if Kahn was forced to focus on one planet per dimension, that's still, roughly 7.4 billion people per dimension, and we KNOW Kahn controls at bare minimum 4 of them. Empire vs Empire Kahn still Zerg rushes.
Vader has more to deal with fighting Kahn than just reaction speeds. Kahn is powerful, has similar telekinetic abilities and may just outright let Vader fight his clone: yes, Kahn has pulled a Dr. Doom. And to top it off Kahn's durability is freaking stupid. Shrugging of attacks from the ones that created Reality is a pretty big deal. As is surviving with a gaping hole in your chest. Neither of which Vader has shown near equivalent feats to.

[Forum Explorer]

That goes back to hand waving. The only thing we can be sure of is how big a fleet Vader has at his height, and that Shao Kahn has numerous dimensions under his control. Earth being the center of our dimension makes some sense, in the way that we don't know of extraterrestrial life forms (supposedly), and automatically assume we are alone. The SW universe assumes life on other planets and reflects that. There is no proof, either way, that any of Kahn's dimensions have E.T.s... except... we can... with Outworld. And technically, my statement stands. Even if Kahn was forced to focus on one planet per dimension, that's still, roughly 7.4 billion people per dimension, and we KNOW Kahn controls at bare minimum 4 of them. Empire vs Empire Kahn still Zerg rushes.
Vader has more to deal with fighting Kahn than just reaction speeds. Kahn is powerful, has similar telekinetic abilities and may just outright let Vader fight his clone: yes, Kahn has pulled a Dr. Doom. And to top it off Kahn's durability is freaking stupid. Shrugging of attacks from the ones that created Reality is a pretty big deal. As is surviving with a gaping hole in your chest. Neither of which Vader has shown near equivalent feats to.

Not really, it's just the story focuses on Earth, and it doesn't matter if aliens exist or not. Also people take dimensions or universe too literally. Same with god. It's a fantasy story, and words aren't used with regards to how accurate they are. But if you are wanting me to prove that Shao Kahn doesn't have a space fleet, then I'll get right on that. Right after you prove that Vader's armor doesn't make him completely immune to magic.

And that's less people then the population of Courasant. If Kahn only has 4 worlds, then he is incredibly outnumbered.

Remember, the Empire blew up an earth-like planet as a demonstration. Something like 6 billion people killed as a political statement.

Oh, sure. It's just that people were talking like Vader couldn't move to respond to Kahn, and that's not true. And for all of Kahn's power, he repeatedly loses to a relatively normal human (random transformations into a dragon aside), who Vader should have no problems defeating. But MK's story doesn't make sense, it's a glorified excuse to get a bunch of characters punching each other in the face.

Also Vader survived being cut in half and set on fire. Or for a different example, he survived his machinery being destroyed by electricity long enough to kill Palpatine and stagger most of the way out of the Death Star.

[The Glyphstone]

To play Darth's advocate there, FE, how much of a typical SW planet's population can be considered trained soldiers, or even capable of fighting? Shao Khan's army might be outnumbered by the 1 trillion-sentient population of Coruscant, but if 95% of them are civilians compared to 100% of Khan's invading army being warriors, the non-combatants are only a distraction factor.

Though 1% of a trillion is still 10 billion, so an invasion of Coruscant specifically with its cartoonishly bloated population probably would still be a poor option. Other planets wouldn't fair nearly as well.

[Forum Explorer]

To play Darth's advocate there, FE, how much of a typical SW planet's population can be considered trained soldiers, or even capable of fighting? Shao Khan's army might be outnumbered by the 1 trillion-sentient population of Coruscant, but if 95% of them are civilians compared to 100% of Khan's invading army being warriors, the non-combatants are only a distraction factor.

Though 1% of a trillion is still 10 billion, so an invasion of Coruscant specifically with its cartoonishly bloated population probably would still be a poor option. Other planets wouldn't fair nearly as well.

Considered trained soldiers? I think that's just the regular differential between military and civilian life. Which is a complicated number but lets disregard Stormtroopers and say around 0.2% (using Canada as an absolute lower bound)

But it gets really complicated when you look at fit for service which skyrockets that number, and the amount of civilian weapons already in the population. (We'll also disregard the Rebels, since it's the Empire vs Kahn, not SW vs MK). I know we get a really biased view, but it does seem like many people have at least some familiarity with weapons, be it from fending off pirates, savages, or unruly animals. Or the weapons in SW are simply really easy to use. So I don't know. A lot higher then 0.2%, but also a lot lower then 100%

[Kyberwulf]

Not to mention The Empire's power potential is further diluted because they don't use Alien Species as military unit. I would also like to ask, how Vader has the full power of the empire at his command? I doubt Palpatine really does give him that much control. Show me where it is stated Vader can just subsume complete authority to The Emperor.

[Traab]

Not to mention The Empire's power potential is further diluted because they don't use Alien Species as military unit. I would also like to ask, how Vader has the full power of the empire at his command? I doubt Palpatine really does give him that much control. Show me where it is stated Vader can just subsume complete authority to The Emperor.

He has the full power of the empire at his command, because he is the chief representative of palpatine. Oh sure he would have to justify it to him, but im fairly sure saying, "An uncountable number of enemy soldiers unlike any race I have ever seen with powers unlike any the force can replicate have just run screaming through a massive portal and declared this universe belongs to them. I figured you wouldnt object to me sending in the navy and bombing them into oblivion, my emperor." would have the justification covered. :smalltongue: "Oh, and I brought back prisoners." should make palpatine a happy monkey since now he can get some information on wtf that was all about and possibly on a new galaxy to conquer.

[HolyDraconus]

Serial number E-3778Q-1. Increased strength, durability, and stamina, with life support. Susceptible to electrical discharges. Resistant to biological weapons and most environments. No Force resistance. Built using ancient techniques to enhance intimidation. That's it. It's canon, and written out for you. Vader isn't immune to magic. So stop with that silly argument. And while I was NOT the one saying Kahn has a space fleet, it's kinda in your corner to prove he doesnt. All I was saying is that in a 1 v 1, Vader loses, and in an Empire v Empire the result is the same.

[Rakaydos]

What if darth vader brought his Tie advanced x1 to the mortal combat tournament?

[ereinion]

Serial number E-3778Q-1. Increased strength, durability, and stamina, with life support. Susceptible to electrical discharges. Resistant to biological weapons and most environments. No Force resistance. Built using ancient techniques to enhance intimidation. That's it. It's canon, and written out for you. Vader isn't immune to magic. So stop with that silly argument. And while I was NOT the one saying Kahn has a space fleet, it's kinda in your corner to prove he doesnt. All I was saying is that in a 1 v 1, Vader loses, and in an Empire v Empire the result is the same.

That just states a few thing it is resistant too, not what it isn't resistant to.

[Sholos]

That just states a few thing it is resistant too, not what it isn't resistant to.

Well, it does specifically state that it isn't Force resistant, so I think it's reasonable to assume that means it is magic resistant, otherwise that would have been pointed out. [/devil's advocate]

[Traab]

1 on 1 I think it would be a good fight, but vader loses. In empire versus empire, until someone, anyone, can show any space faring capability on the part of khan, the answer is clear, vader wins. A ground bound army is not going to be able to do anything to space ships firing from orbit. You can have a zillion zerglings, enough to cover every square inch of the map, and it wont matter against a battlecruiser. They cant touch it, and he will eventually kill everything.

[ereinion]

Well, it does specifically state that it isn't Force resistant, so I think it's reasonable to assume that means it is magic resistant, otherwise that would have been pointed out. [/devil's advocate]

Likewise I think it is reasonable to assume no spacefaring capabilities until something similar is shown in the mythos, but we were looking for hard proof here, weren't we :smallwink:

[Forum Explorer]

Serial number E-3778Q-1. Increased strength, durability, and stamina, with life support. Susceptible to electrical discharges. Resistant to biological weapons and most environments. No Force resistance. Built using ancient techniques to enhance intimidation. That's it. It's canon, and written out for you. Vader isn't immune to magic. So stop with that silly argument. And while I was NOT the one saying Kahn has a space fleet, it's kinda in your corner to prove he doesnt. All I was saying is that in a 1 v 1, Vader loses, and in an Empire v Empire the result is the same.

Ah, but that doesn't say that it isn't immune to magic. It doesn't mention it at all, so by your that persons logic, it should be able to protect him against it because otherwise it would be mentioned. Unless you prove otherwise. Sure, it's not mentioned, showed, or displayed in any way, but that's irrelevant.

[The Glyphstone]

Didn't someone say he can teleport his troops? Even if he's forced to begin his beachhead on a planet, and especially if said beachhead is on a high-value planet the Empire won't jump to liquifying as Step 1, can't he just immediately teleport an army of boarders onto any Star Destroyer in position to bombard said beachhead? Just taking/destroying the bridge of a SD basically locks down the entire ship, as demonstrated by ROTJ, so it's very easy for Khan's troops to deny the use of an SD to his enemies even if he can't immediately use it himself - if he can get there in the first place.

[Rakaydos]

Seriously, guys, everyone in mortsl combat brings their favorite weapons.

Whats stopping Vader from bringing his personal 1man fighter?

[Traab]

Didn't someone say he can teleport his troops? Even if he's forced to begin his beachhead on a planet, and especially if said beachhead is on a high-value planet the Empire won't jump to liquifying as Step 1, can't he just immediately teleport an army of boarders onto any Star Destroyer in position to bombard said beachhead? Just taking/destroying the bridge of a SD basically locks down the entire ship, as demonstrated by ROTJ, so it's very easy for Khan's troops to deny the use of an SD to his enemies even if he can't immediately use it himself - if he can get there in the first place.

Out of curiosity, has he ever used portals to travel around inside a realm? Im trying to remember that atrocious movie when he was able to forcibly merge the realms. I know he was able to send out hunter killer parties, but I cant recall if he was sending them from outland to earthrealm, or from some location inside earthrealm. Honestly, I wish we knew more about the portals. I know in the original mortal kombat he needed souls to be sacrificed, and strong ones, just to open a portal big enough for his forces to come through, but as you yourself pointed out, I think, the rules and backstory have changed so much, who the hell knows how things work now?

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think Vader has as much clot to strong arm Palpy into anything. I also doubt Vader would go crying to mommy palpy if he get's his butt kicked. That would mean he is weak. That is a huge thing for Sith. The Emperor wouldn't like that at all. Besides, who is to say that Palpy wouldn't want to offer the chance of being his apprentice to Shao Kahn. Heck, The Emperor might even make Vader dual him just to see who is stronger.

I am not saying that Shao Kahn does or does not have a Space Navy. The possibility is there. You can infer some things from the games, because of what the earth has and doesn't have in said games. You can't assume anything from a source, when that source gives you so little information.

Mortal Kombat is a game based around a fighting tournament. To assume any level of technology, as a certainty, from these fighting tournaments is a folly. I mean, that would be like assuming this world doesn't have any flying capabilities, because they don't use any of that in the Olympic games.

I like how one assumption is being dismissed, when another one is being assumed. I doubt Vader would be able to demand anything from the Emperor, especially a Planet destroying vessel. Especially, from someone who is so power-hungry as Palpy.

Also, who is to say, that Shao Kahn would stay on a world that is being bombarded by space vehicles. He could just as well, teleport back to another dimension. and come back again.

In any event, I see Vader losing. The only course would be what happens after. If Palpatine would try to control Shao Kahn.

[Traab]

If he got that far im sure palpy would try. Then shao khan would devour his soul and assimilate all his knowledge about the force. Assuming said force had any connection to him at all really. Different dimensions have different rules. Maybe magic=force, maybe they are two very different things, I dunno. And yes, of course it would be ludicrous for vader to try to send the entire imperial military against khan and his troops. However, I do think sending a video back to palpy showing the endless masses of troops streaming through the portal/s showcasing totally unique beings with clear power would convince HIM to send in the fleet, and probably put vader, if not in charge, at least there in a similar role as on the death star. He sets policy, the moffs make plans to achieve said policy. Vader is there to make sure it happens and force choke slam anyone who annoys him or screws up.

As for making assumptions about shao khans tech level, its pretty clear. In every game, in every movie, in every book (Yes, there is at least one book, I own it and its great) shao khan is clearly a sword and sorcery guy in a sword and sorcery empire. His tech level is at the level of castles and melee weapons like swords and axes and hammers. Those cyborg ninja? Earth realm tech added to ancient ninja clans. Shao khan never shows anything beyond classic fantasy tech levels. If he had something better I dont think he would be willing to lose by sticking to his giant hammer instead of his hand held rail gun and matter disintegrater. On a mountain of skulls in a castle of pain, he sits, on a throne of blood. Nothing futuristic at all.

[Mato]

Seriously, guys, everyone in mortsl combat brings their favorite weapons.
Whats stopping Vader from bringing his personal 1man fighter?I just wanted to let you know the reason people on both sides are ignoring this because Shao Kahn's Empower Shield is commonly depicted as being able reflect any projectile. Vader's TIE fighter would shoot it's self down trying to attack Kahn so there isn't much point in bringing it up unless you tried to argue that it must have some kind of limit even through it don't because the video game never cared to add one.

There's also the elephant in the room that if you start trying to add obscure defunct Expanded Universe Feats or stuff Vader doesn't have such as the Death Star to irrationally power him up then it's more than equally fitting to start discussing the aborted timeline or even peak-power in MK9 versions of Kahn. Like the Armageddon rewards were omnipotent power levels and the granting a single, apparently limitless, wish. According to Kahn's ending between that and merging all the remaining Realms only increased Khan's power tenfold. So what's 1/10th the power of an infinite number of realms and everyone that has ever lived? I don't know, but don't be too proud of this technological warrior the Emperor constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of Shao Khan.

[Rakaydos]

I just wanted to let you know the reason people on both sides are ignoring this because Shao Kahn's Empower Shield is commonly depicted as being able reflect any projectile. Vader's TIE fighter would shoot it's self down trying to attack Kahn so there isn't much point in bringing it up unless you tried to argue that it must have some kind of limit even through it don't because the video game never cared to add one.

There's also the elephant in the room that if you start trying to add obscure defunct Expanded Universe Feats or stuff Vader doesn't have such as the Death Star to irrationally power him up then it's more than equally fitting to start discussing the aborted timeline or even peak-power in MK9 versions of Kahn. Like the Armageddon rewards were omnipotent power levels and the granting a single, apparently limitless, wish. According to Kahn's ending between that and merging all the remaining Realms only increased Khan's power tenfold. So what's 1/10th the power of an infinite number of realms and everyone that has ever lived? I don't know, but don't be too proud of this technological warrior the Emperor constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant. Feel the power of Shao Khan!
No need for Obscure Defunct EU, when current canon suits just fine.
https://youtu.be/MCgjvI6VJeY?t=52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwWhO2q7fgU
That's his personal, one of a kind ship. In current canon, not even the inquisition uses the same design. Two passes crippled the largest rebel capital ship in the battle. In the movies, the same ship kills 6 rebel trench runners on screen, cripples Wedge, and escapes the destructon of the deathstar after a sneak attack and mid-space colision.

Anakin Skywalker has always been a pilot, first and foremost- more than the lightsaber, THAT ship is his chosen weapon. He should bring it to the Mortal Kombat.

[Traab]

No need for Obscure Defunct EU, when current canon suits just fine.
https://youtu.be/MCgjvI6VJeY?t=52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwWhO2q7fgU
That's his personal, one of a kind ship. In current canon, not even the inquisition uses the same design. Two passes crippled the largest rebel capital ship in the battle. In the movies, the same ship kills 6 rebel trench runners on screen, cripples Wedge, and escapes the destructon of the deathstar after a sneak attack and mid-space colision.

Anakin Skywalker has always been a pilot, first and foremost- more than the lightsaber, THAT ship is his chosen weapon. He should bring it to the Mortal Kombat.

Too be fair, those 6 ships he shot down from behind because they literally couldnt leave the trench had no rear facing weapons and limited room to maneuver. The term fish in a barrel was designed for that scenario. And he got clipped by his wingman and sent spiraling off into space the one time he himself came under attack. I do agree with the main point though, anakin is a pilot, thats his first and greatest ability. Im just saying the death star tench run wasnt exactly an example of master level work as a pilot. He went behind people forced to fly in a straight line and shot them in the back.

[Devonix]

Was reading this at work and unable to post, am home now so let's clear up some misconceptions.

Mortal Kombat is in no way required for someone to invade a realm. This is something established and shown many many times through out the series. All you need is someone capable of opening a portal and you can send in as many people or whatever as you want.

What MK IS designed to do is to prevent the merging of realms. This is because the larger a realm becomes, the more powerful it's owner becomes. MK is designed to slow this process and keep the Elder Gods at the top of the pecking order. You can invade and kill and do whatever you want, as long as you don't absorb their realm into yours.

Also it's designed to help lesser races in that it puts everyone on a more or less equal footing. If you participate in the tournament, any immortality, or other such things get removed, and you're as vulnerable to attack as your normal footsoldiers. If you're a powerful realm and Shao Khan challenges you. You can say. Eff you, You wanna come over and We'll just kick the crap outta your army I'm not risking my realm just to give you an fair fight.

The entire plot of MK2 is that after Lui Kang wings MK 1 Shao Khan sends a raiding party to kill the monks as revenge and to let Lui know that even if he can't merge realms he can still come over and kick his **** in. So you better agree to this new winner take all tournament or I won't stop.

Also in MK Realms = Planet, That's why its Earth Realm that's being conqured, IE the planet earth. Edenia, as in the Planet Edenia. It's also why you don't get Aliens showing up in any of the Plot relevant things in MK. Every single fighter in the series is from One planet in their realm. Space travel does not exist in MK Never has, It's simply not a thing.

Earth Realm Aka Earth is also the height of technological achivement in the MK universe. This is also something noted several times throughout the series. Outworld is facinated by things like guns for example. The one and only reason that Kano and the Black Dragons are relevant in the series is that they provide Earth tech to the armies of outworld by smuggling things through portals. Do you really think a space capable civilization would care about someone selling machine guns?

[Mato]

Also in MK Realms = Planet,That's like saying with a spaceship we can meet are dead relatives.

Heaven and Neatherrealm (aka hell) are also Realms in the Mortal Kombat universe. And to make things even more ludicrous, Tremor's ending also mentions the Dreamrealm which is where the DLC Freddy Kruger comes from, according to your analogy sleeping apparently invents new planets and waking up destroys them. :smallsigh:

[Devonix]

That's like saying with a spaceship we can meet are dead relatives.

Heaven and Neatherrealm (aka hell) are also Realms in the Mortal Kombat universe. And to make things even more ludicrous, Tremor's ending also mentions the Dreamrealm which is where the DLC Freddy Kruger comes from, according to your analogy sleeping apparently invents new planets and waking up destroys them. :smallsigh:

Realm, Dimension, planet are the same thing, the difference is that you can't go to the Netherrealm via a space ship, you need to have a portal. And Just like The Netherrealm isn't the afterlife. It's a specific dimension that souls can be taken to. But it's a realm just like any other. It can be invaded and conqured like any other.

And Noncannon characters and endings like Freddy, or Jason or the Predator don't count in discussing the MK continuity.

Let's put it this way. Reptile's species was from Earth aka Earthrealm and during the battles with Shinnock in the distant past they sought refuge by traveling to another realm Zaterra. Shao Khan took over Zaterra and absorbed it into Outworld. and Zaterra consisted pretty much of just the planet Zaterra. Just like every other realm in MK.

This is simply how it's always worked in MK. It's how every single realm being taken over has always worked. No aliens, no space ships, no other planets.

[Green Elf]

I think you're all looking over the most important factor. You are looking at what they CAN do but what would they ACTUALLY do. What is their fighting style? Adaptability?

[Mato]

Realm, Dimension, planet are the same thing,I feel you summed up your entire post and why I disagree with you right there, no need for any extra words.


I think you're all looking over the most important factor. You are looking at what they CAN do but what would they ACTUALLY do. What is their fighting style? Adaptability?

The easy tl;dr of them is one is a limited and enlisted magical user enslaved to the whims of another and acts under orders of several more others. He cannot use any of the mobility enhancing traits like most of his trained kind, has a severe respiratory problem, and his combat style focuses on combating high temperature sword users with his own high temperature sword with an excellent supportive trait of being able to block standard projectiles with his armor but be never learned how to turn on-and off his or his opponent's beam for unblockable attacks, or how telekinetically spinning it really fast and throwing it around like a boomerang while hiding under one of those projectile shields would improve his kill count twenty fold. He prime area of expertise however is getting shot down as a pilot thanks to his inhuman reflexes giving him an edge against strictly human level combatants such as Droids or most of the Rebal Fleet even through the prequels mention several other species naturally make better pilots even without relying on the force. His history of wins includes one barely armed Sand People village, a couple dozen droids dumb enough to shoot each other, and about twelve unarmed kids. Notable losses include losing to his fear, his hate, his inability to walk away from a volcano, his mentor, making his mentor more powerful than he can imagine, his son, the emperor, and before he even lost his limbs & mobility he was captured at least a half dozen times.

And the other appears to be a brute force hulk swinging a magical hammer that is both proficient and powerful enough to curbstomp entire worlds and keep them in line. And he is. But he is also a deceptive trick using necromancer willing to lie, cheat, poison, clone, extort and blackmail his way to victory against an incredibility wide cast of creatures, elementals, machines, Gods, and other supernatural entities. His history includes living ten thousand times longer than his opponent, beating several warrior filled universes, killing at least two high temperature sword wielding cyborgs with mystical powers that were actually willing to use guns & bombs, killing a half-dragon obsessed with empowering him self with the sum of creation, twice. With every victory he obtains directly making him even more powerful than before he is like some kind of Super Saiyen battle hungry monstrosity. And he has, more than once, exceeded all known levels of any other combatant in his multiverse. Including the one designed to kill everyone in order to prevent things from getting out of control. Notably losses include that time super Bruce Lee who can turn into a dragon and break the fourth wall to kill his opponents beat him while shackled by the rules of Mortal Kombat, that time Raiden went back in time because he had no other way to win, and that time when a dozen Elder Gods merged with Raiden and ganged up on him.

All through I may have missed quite a bit as I'm sure someone will tell me. :smallwink:

[Traab]

Heh, isnt he more like an anti sayian? Dont they get stronger every time they get curb stomped while he gets stronger every time he wins?

[Frozen_Feet]

I agree with Devonix and Traab. Nowhere is the Mortal Kombat setting shown to have space capability, and a realm consistently maps to one inhabited world. Or, only one inhabited world per realm matters.

However, this doesn't mean an empire versus empire set-up would be unwinnable to Shao Kahn.

Consider: the Galactic Empire consists of a huge number of planets, not all of which are equally defended, and some being only nominally under Empire's rule. Consider also: while the Empire's initial space superiority is unquestionable, their groundbound forces are considerably less impressive. Sure, a blaster shot might be lethal to Shao Kahn's average soldier, but a magic icicle is just as lethal to the average stormtrooper. Through magic and subterfuge, Shao Kahn's troops could easily take over isolated garrisons or non-imperial forces lacking heavy armour.

Now consider: technology for spaceflight is ubiquitous in the Star Wars setting. You can nearly mug some random hobo on Tatoiine and be sure to net a ship capable of interstellar travel. It would be easy for Shao Kahn to abduct people and equipment from the Empire with ability to reverse-engineer and construct spaceships.

By contrast: magic and portals are next to non-existent in the Empire. So Shao Kahn would have the iniative, and he could research his enemy in peace with basically nill chance of the Empire reverse-engineering his technology, and hence nill chance of suffering any sort or form of retribution. Dimensional travel is just as foreign to Star Wars as spaceships are to Mortal Kombat; so Shao Kahn's seat of power is just as inassailable to Vader as starfleets are to him.

So by attacking one planet at a time, assimilating first those worlds which are of little value to the Empire but contain usable and reverse-engineerable technology, Shao Kahn might eventually acquire the technology and resources to battle the Empire in space. It's not like the dude is adverse to long-term planning, his and his lackey's first plan to take over Earth Realm was five centuries in the making. The entire reign of Palpatine and Vader lasted less time.

[Traab]

I agree with Devonix and Traab. Nowhere is the Mortal Kombat setting shown to have space capability, and a realm consistently maps to one inhabited world. Or, only one inhabited world per realm matters.

However, this doesn't mean an empire versus empire set-up would be unwinnable to Shao Kahn.

Consider: the Galactic Empire consists of a huge number of planets, not all of which are equally defended, and some being only nominally under Empire's rule. Consider also: while the Empire's initial space superiority is unquestionable, their groundbound forces are considerably less impressive. Sure, a blaster shot might be lethal to Shao Kahn's average soldier, but a magic icicle is just as lethal to the average stormtrooper. Through magic and subterfuge, Shao Kahn's troops could easily take over isolated garrisons or non-imperial forces lacking heavy armour.

Now consider: technology for spaceflight is ubiquitous in the Star Wars setting. You can nearly mug some random hobo on Tatoiine and be sure to net a ship capable of interstellar travel. It would be easy for Shao Kahn to abduct people and equipment from the Empire with ability to reverse-engineer and construct spaceships.

By contrast: magic and portals are next to non-existent in the Empire. So Shao Kahn would have the iniative, and he could research his enemy in peace with basically nill chance of the Empire reverse-engineering his technology, and hence nill chance of suffering any sort or form of retribution. Dimensional travel is just as foreign to Star Wars as spaceships are to Mortal Kombat; so Shao Kahn's seat of power is just as inassailable to Vader as starfleets are to him.

So by attacking one planet at a time, assimilating first those worlds which are of little value to the Empire but contain usable and reverse-engineerable technology, Shao Kahn might eventually acquire the technology and resources to battle the Empire in space. It's not like the dude is adverse to long-term planning, his and his lackey's first plan to take over Earth Realm was five centuries in the making. The entire reign of Palpatine and Vader lasted less time.


See now this is an interesting and possible scenario. If it had been setup as a thought experiment of how mortal kombat realm could take down star wars this is how I would go. If he sticks to guerilla warfare it might even work. Lets face it, if he were to invade say, tattoine, im sure he could fairly quickly seize control over most of it, steal a bunch of tech/prisoners who understand said tech/r2d2 style astromechs with all the schematics they need, etc. However, the problem becomes KEEPING those worlds. Lets face it, we know that interstellar communication is virtually instant, so chances are very good someone would be able to report, "OH MY GOD!!! THERE ARE DEMONS SWARMING OUT OF A PORTAL KILLING AND CAPTURING EVERYTHING! HELP US PALPATINE! YOUR OUR ONLY HOOOOOPE!!!" So its likely there would be a naval response fairly quick. However, if they raid the planet, grab the things I was talking about, then retreat back into their portal, they can spend the next 400 years figuring all this crap out and building an armada.

The only hole in this plan is it would almost require advance knowledge of the setting, or a few early blind raids to figure it out. Also, I dont know how his initial portal would be targeted. I mean, how would he even know where its opening? Can he target multiple planets in a single "realm"? It would kinda suck if he can only open a portal to, I dunno, the capitol city of the gungans on naboo. That would give him a messed up picture of the tech level of this setting, and also be a lousy place to stage an invasion from. And to grab tech from. Heh, now im picturing this like a game of medieval total war. Your starting point has a massive short to mid term impact on what you can do. Some starting points are rich in resources and have relatively easy expansion areas to work with, others are poor and surrounded by strong enemies.

[Kyberwulf]

I am still waiting for any, and i mean ANY evidence that says there isn't the potential for any space capabilities in the mortal combat world. It hasn't been backed up by anything, so its as much a blind assertion to say they don't have it. As much as it is to say they do.

[Forum Explorer]

Likewise I think it is reasonable to assume no spacefaring capabilities until something similar is shown in the mythos, but we were looking for hard proof here, weren't we :smallwink:

Exactly


I am still waiting for any, and i mean ANY evidence that says there isn't the potential for any space capabilities in the mortal combat world. It hasn't been backed up by anything, so its as much a blind assertion to say they don't have it. As much as it is to say they do.

Didn't someone say that Earthrealm has the highest level of technology in the MK multiverse? By the fluff anyways? And if it doesn't have it, then logically no where else Shao Kahn has conquered would either.

[Traab]

I am still waiting for any, and i mean ANY evidence that says there isn't the potential for any space capabilities in the mortal combat world. It hasn't been backed up by anything, so its as much a blind assertion to say they don't have it. As much as it is to say they do.

And im still waiting for you to refute my wolverine wins counterpoint. We both know its stupid, we both know its not real, but we both know that following your demands for proof of no sci fi tech in mk, you cant disprove that wolverine could teleport into any fight that he wants to and instantly kill everyone else.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Traab: hyperlight comms are an issue, yes, but not an insurmountable one.

Let's think: Shao Kahn launches a mass invasion of an Imperial World. Empire responds by sending in groundbound troops to deal with this "rebel warlord". Kahn proceeds to overwhelm those troops with superior numbers. Empire sends in heavy armor to trample them. Kahn's outpowered now, but he's not running out of soldiers.

Finally, Empire decides "screw it" and a Star Destroyer glasses the planet's surface.

Kahn's invasion has been stopped, but what has he lost versus what he has gained? His base of operations in Outworld is untouched. The vast majority of his powerbase is uninfluenced by loss of this one world. On the other hand, he now has new slaves, new intel and new technology lf his foe.

Again: hi-tech is ubiquitous in the Empire. Even one conquered garrison would be a treasure trove to Kahn. One conquered library of starmaps along with one person to read them would give him knowledge of thousands of possible new realms to invade.

He doesn't have to try again on the same planet. He doesn't have to try again on the same century. And next time, he can send his ninja goons to stealthily acquire more people and equipment with no-one in the Empire realizing it is in any shape or form connected to the earlier event.

To stop Kahn on his tracks on the first incursion would require something incredibly lucky, like a Star Destroyer accidentally firing through a portal and nuking Outworld. Based on what I know of Kahn, it's not his style to take strolls on worlds he is in process of conquering, he has lackeys like Shan Tsung for that.

[Devonix]

The size of Shao Kahn's army is being vastly Vastly overstated. His standard operating procedure that we know and has been verified throughout the series is that he'll Declare Mortal Kombat, beat that Realm's Champions and kill off most of the populous except for perhaps a handful of people, and eat the souls of everyone else.

This is what he did on Edenia, This is what he did on Tesselar, this is what he's shown to do on every Realm he goes to. Shao Khan doesn't have these vast armies of all of the untold billions of people from a realm he conqured, He has his main army that he uses to strongarm people into accepting MK and a handful or people from worlds he deemed useful. This is stated fact in the games.

This reason is just because you win MK that doesn't make the populous loyal to you. He'd have uprisings going on from his now incredibly outnumbered army if he did that. Added to him not really caring about armies, he wants more personal power, which he gets by absorbing souls.

[pendell]

I'm not very familiar with the Mortal Kombat universe. Still, the problem with the argument that Shao Kahn is guaranteed victory would also imply he can't be beaten in-game, either, by ordinary human opponents who don't have force precognition or a lightsaber. But he was, was he not? I forget all the opponents he faced, but surely some of them were ordinary humans, albeit highly trained? And are they not at least plausible opponents?

Then I have to give the advantage to Vader. If Jax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jax_(Mortal_Kombat)) or Johnny Cage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Cage) can plausibly defeat SK with fists, then Vader can beat SK with an unblockable light sword and force precognition.

Also, Vader is hardly at the height of his powers when we meet him in the original trilogy. Might a better match be between Anakin in Episode III just before he went swimming in lava? He's not restrained by a life support suit, and he has a far greater Force potential.

Finally, I think it's better to assume that this is a 1v1 in a combat arena. Anything else becomes a universe vs. universe context , not about DV vs. SK.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Devonix]

I'm not very familiar with the Mortal Kombat universe. Still, the problem with the argument that Shao Kahn is guaranteed victory would also imply he can't be beaten in-game, either, by ordinary human opponents who don't have force precognition or a lightsaber. But he was, was he not? I forget all the opponents he faced, but surely some of them were ordinary humans, albeit highly trained? And are they not at least plausible opponents?

Then I have to give the advantage to Vader. If Jax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jax_(Mortal_Kombat)) or Johnny Cage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Cage) can plausibly defeat SK with fists, then Vader can beat SK with an unblockable light sword and force precognition.

Also, Vader is hardly at the height of his powers when we meet him in the original trilogy. Might a better match be between Anakin in Episode III just before he went swimming in lava? He's not restrained by a life support suit, and he has a far greater Force potential.

Finally, I think it's better to assume that this is a 1v1 in a combat arena. Anything else becomes a universe vs. universe context , not about DV vs. SK.

Respectfully,

Brian P.



This boils down to how MK Works. If the MK tournament is activated then all participants in it become mortal and vulnerable. So I'd say if we're in a tournament Vader stands a chance. But against an Unrestricted Shao Kahn There is nothing Vader can do to avoid getting trashed in a fight.

[Traab]

This boils down to how MK Works. If the MK tournament is activated then all participants in it become mortal and vulnerable. So I'd say if we're in a tournament Vader stands a chance. But against an Unrestricted Shao Kahn There is nothing Vader can do to avoid getting trashed in a fight.

I honestly believe it would be a decent fight. I still say khan would win, but I dont think it would be a curb stomp. His force precog combined with a weapon that has to be blocked or avoided unless shao wants to lose something important, along with his telekinetic abilities would make him at least respectably dangerous in a fight. I dont think he has enough speed power and strength to WIN, but I dont think shao khan would take it in a yawn. Now RAIDEN would take it in a yawn. :smallbiggrin:

[Devonix]

I honestly believe it would be a decent fight. I still say khan would win, but I dont think it would be a curb stomp. His force precog combined with a weapon that has to be blocked or avoided unless shao wants to lose something important, along with his telekinetic abilities would make him at least respectably dangerous in a fight. I dont think he has enough speed power and strength to WIN, but I dont think shao khan would take it in a yawn. Now RAIDEN would take it in a yawn. :smallbiggrin:

Against Unrestricted Shao Kahn there is no fight. He doesn't have to engage in a physical battle with him. Just laugh off anything Vader does. Vader's only chance one on one is if he accepts Mortal Kombat.

[Traab]

Shao khan isnt world breaker hulk. He isnt immune to all damage or anything.

[Devonix]

Shao khan isnt world breaker hulk. He isnt immune to all damage or anything.

What I'm saying is that Shao Khan doesn't need to take a physical form to fight Vader if he's unrestricted. And since when is World Breaker Hulk immune to damage?

[Traab]

What I'm saying is that Shao Khan doesn't need to take a physical form to fight Vader if he's unrestricted. And since when is World Breaker Hulk immune to damage?

I basically meant he isnt some one man planet destroying beast. And im not sure what you are trying to say about shao khan and his abilities, but I dont think he is allowed to astrally project himself into the battle as prep time is generally a no for versus battles. You kinda have to be there in person or its a bit unfair.

[Kyberwulf]

Yet Vader is able to Glass a planet from orbit? Again..the rules are being moved to suit one side.

[Traab]

Yet Vader is able to Glass a planet from orbit? Again..the rules are being moved to suit one side.

Ummm, no? Vader cant glass a fist sized lump of sand. The star wars imperial navy however could. But we switched back to talking about 1 on 1 and what the outcome would be. Unless you are talking about earlier posts? Im not quite sure what you are objecting to right now.

[HolyDraconus]

What he's saying is that the only chance a mortal HAS of beating Shao Kahn 1 v 1 IS THRU MORTAL KOMBAT. The L Kahn took from Lui Kang? Kahn was under the rules of Mortal Kombat. The L to Raiden? Raiden is a LITERAL god with enough power to be promoted to Elder God. And Raiden still needed help. Without the rules of MK, Kahn is flat out unbeatable at the point MK 1 started. Kahn vs Vader is like putting a 30 lvl Stalwart Battle Sorceror vs a lvl 3 Psychic Warrior. He's not losing this fight 1 v 1.

[Starwulf]

I am still waiting for any, and i mean ANY evidence that says there isn't the potential for any space capabilities in the mortal combat world. It hasn't been backed up by anything, so its as much a blind assertion to say they don't have it. As much as it is to say they do.

In any versus thread, you can only work with what is SHOWN AND PRESENT in the series. You are literally arguing against a long-standing rule/tradition of vs threads here on the GiTP forums, and given I've seen you participate in these kind of threads before, I am unsure as to why you don't seem to get this. Nowhere in ANY MK game or movie, or comic, has there been any mention or showing of space traveling capabilities. As such, as per the rules of these threads, you need to accept that they can't be given such technology.


What he's saying is that the only chance a mortal HAS of beating Shao Kahn 1 v 1 IS THRU MORTAL KOMBAT. The L Kahn took from Lui Kang? Kahn was under the rules of Mortal Kombat. The L to Raiden? Raiden is a LITERAL god with enough power to be promoted to Elder God. And Raiden still needed help. Without the rules of MK, Kahn is flat out unbeatable at the point MK 1 started. Kahn vs Vader is like putting a 30 lvl Stalwart Battle Sorceror vs a lvl 3 Psychic Warrior. He's not losing this fight 1 v 1.

The issue to comparing someone to a god of their universe, is we don't have a clear showing of just how powerful the MK gods really are. Yes they are strong, and if they ALL step in they can shut Kahn down, but that doesn't mean too terribly much. For all we know, Kahn is just a level 6 Wizard with a few levels of Fighter thrown in there, and the MK gods are all level 7 or something with no multiclass. I can think of quite a few series where the gods of the universe aren't actually all that powerful, and then in other universes the gods are the be all end all and if you even think of challenging them you're entire existence is obliterated and no-one even remembers you existed.

[Rakaydos]

Meanwhile, I still havnt seen an argument that Vader cannot choose his personal, customized 1-man fightercraft as his Mortal Kombat Weapon and Armor. Only that Shao Khan can turtle and force Vader to dodge his own laserblasts

[Forum Explorer]

What he's saying is that the only chance a mortal HAS of beating Shao Kahn 1 v 1 IS THRU MORTAL KOMBAT. The L Kahn took from Lui Kang? Kahn was under the rules of Mortal Kombat. The L to Raiden? Raiden is a LITERAL god with enough power to be promoted to Elder God. And Raiden still needed help. Without the rules of MK, Kahn is flat out unbeatable at the point MK 1 started. Kahn vs Vader is like putting a 30 lvl Stalwart Battle Sorceror vs a lvl 3 Psychic Warrior. He's not losing this fight 1 v 1.

Sure, I guess the logic of this is sorta like so:

1. Can Shao Kahn beat Vader in a war?
No, the advantage given by space technology is too great for his armies to overcome.
Maybe, depending if he can invade one planet, and then incorporate it's technology. And if he can choose an isolated planet, or has to aim for an important one. Like the capital Corosant.

2. Assuming he can't win, he'll declare MK. That lowers his power, can Vader beat Shao Kahn now?
Well a normal human could, so I guess so?

But in a straight up, Shao Kahn at his best vs Vader, Vader just loses. I think that's why the question got expanded to what would happen in a full out invasion rather then a theoretical one on one show down.


Meanwhile, I still havnt seen an argument that Vader cannot choose his personal, customized 1-man fightercraft as his Mortal Kombat Weapon and Armor. Only that Shao Khan can turtle and force Vader to dodge his own laserblasts

Isn't that enough? I mean if the ship effectively can't hurt Shao Kahn, then it's not much use.

But another reason could be that the battlefield won't be able to fit it in. Like, say, they were dueling on the bridge of a Star Destroyer.

[Rakaydos]

But another reason could be that the battlefield won't be able to fit it in. Like, say, they were dueling on the bridge of a Star Destroyer.

Well, he's seen how to turn that battlefield to his advantage...

https://youtu.be/7WQqEl4pMJ0?t=178

[pendell]

Hmm.. I ask again, however, what if we allow Vader to fight at his peak instead of as a half-dead cripple -- as Ep. III Anakin Skywalker?

Under MK, I think he's got as good a chance as any of the other characters. Outside of MK, if he's in Shao Kahn's universe, he'll lose. If Shao Kahn crosses into HIS universe, it becomes a matter of author fiat as we decide what rules do and do not apply.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Traab]

Sure, I guess the logic of this is sorta like so:

1. Can Shao Kahn beat Vader in a war?
No, the advantage given by space technology is too great for his armies to overcome.
Maybe, depending if he can invade one planet, and then incorporate it's technology. And if he can choose an isolated planet, or has to aim for an important one. Like the capital Corosant.

2. Assuming he can't win, he'll declare MK. That lowers his power, can Vader beat Shao Kahn now?
Well a normal human could, so I guess so?

But in a straight up, Shao Kahn at his best vs Vader, Vader just loses. I think that's why the question got expanded to what would happen in a full out invasion rather then a theoretical one on one show down.



Isn't that enough? I mean if the ship effectively can't hurt Shao Kahn, then it's not much use.

But another reason could be that the battlefield won't be able to fit it in. Like, say, they were dueling on the bridge of a Star Destroyer.

Honestly, the path to victory empire versus empire doesnt really apply to a death battle style setup, thats more of a long game who would eventually win sort of thing. Although speaking of which, what happens if shao khan pops up on a random world in the star wars universe and declares mortal kombat against say, the regional governor? Does he just get that one planet? What happens to that one planet? I mean, does it get sucked into outworld and join his empire? Does his empire suddenly share a border with this world meaning its a two way connection?

[HolyDraconus]

Honestly, the path to victory empire versus empire doesnt really apply to a death battle style setup, thats more of a long game who would eventually win sort of thing. Although speaking of which, what happens if shao khan pops up on a random world in the star wars universe and declares mortal kombat against say, the regional governor? Does he just get that one planet? What happens to that one planet? I mean, does it get sucked into outworld and join his empire? Does his empire suddenly share a border with this world meaning its a two way connection?
The point of declaring is to merge the main realms though. When he won in the redacted time line and took earth, it was everything. Nothing stated that it was only the planet, but all our existence.

[Traab]

The point of declaring is to merge the main realms though. When he won in the redacted time line and took earth, it was everything. Nothing stated that it was only the planet, but all our existence.

Yeah but, I think he had to challenge one of the gods of earth to make that valid, or else he could be like, "Yo hobo, Ill give you a sandwich if you agree to MORTAL KOMBAAAAAT!" Then kill his ass and declare earth realm belongs to shao khan now! I mean, he couldnt just challenge ANYONE on earth to mortal kombat for the right to rule it right? So would he have to make his way to coruscant and challenge palpy or his champion for the right to rule that realm? Would he KNOW that? Or just be all, "You, peon, take me to your leader" Then challenge jabba to mortal kombat and be like, "Yo, I win, this realm is mine!" Only to look really awkward when nothing happens because jabba aint in charge of NUTHIN outside his planet.

[HolyDraconus]

Yeah but, I think he had to challenge one of the gods of earth to make that valid, or else he could be like, "Yo hobo, Ill give you a sandwich if you agree to MORTAL KOMBAAAAAT!" Then kill his ass and declare earth realm belongs to shao khan now! I mean, he couldnt just challenge ANYONE on earth to mortal kombat for the right to rule it right? So would he have to make his way to coruscant and challenge palpy or his champion for the right to rule that realm? Would he KNOW that? Or just be all, "You, peon, take me to your leader" Then challenge jabba to mortal kombat and be like, "Yo, I win, this realm is mine!" Only to look really awkward when nothing happens because jabba aint in charge of NUTHIN outside his planet.

Actually, no, he DIDN'T. The MK tourney was setup by the Elder Gods (all of them) as a check to Outworld, which was growing too powerful, as a means of realms being able to defend themselves. Hence why it's 10 straight wins, and the former champion becomes ageless AND immortal until the start of the next one. It's up to the defenders to find combatants. However, according to the rules, no one can refuse MK. But, as was proven twice before, Kahn doesn't have to offer MK. He can just straight up invade.

[Seppl]

Actually, no, he DIDN'T. The MK tourney was setup by the Elder Gods (all of them) as a check to Outworld, which was growing too powerful, as a means of realms being able to defend themselves. Hence why it's 10 straight wins, and the former champion becomes ageless AND immortal until the start of the next one. It's up to the defenders to find combatants. However, according to the rules, no one can refuse MK. But, as was proven twice before, Kahn doesn't have to offer MK. He can just straight up invade.So, the point of challenging a realm to Mortal Kombat is to appease the Elder Gods to agree to an invasion? Except when Shao Khan just invaded Earthrealm without winning in MK first, they just stood by...

[ArlEammon]

I think that maybe Mortal Kombat is stupid and just a game.

[HolyDraconus]

So, the point of challenging a realm to Mortal Kombat is to appease the Elder Gods to agree to an invasion? Except when Shao Khan just invaded Earthrealm without winning in MK first, they just stood by...
The gods are lazy to the point of lethargic at times. Both times Kahn invaded they retroactively punished him. I'm certain that if Kahn was fast enough mergin they wouldn't do a damn thing.

I think that maybe Mortal Kombat is stupid and just a game.

Lol.

[Traab]

Actually, no, he DIDN'T. The MK tourney was setup by the Elder Gods (all of them) as a check to Outworld, which was growing too powerful, as a means of realms being able to defend themselves. Hence why it's 10 straight wins, and the former champion becomes ageless AND immortal until the start of the next one. It's up to the defenders to find combatants. However, according to the rules, no one can refuse MK. But, as was proven twice before, Kahn doesn't have to offer MK. He can just straight up invade.

But what I mean is, he couldnt just challenge anyone on earth to mortal kombat or else he would have picked a fight with the local karate dojo next to walmart for the easy win. It almost HAS to be someone with authority. A head of state or a local god. Otherwise it would have been laughably easy to stack the deck in his favor and win.

[HolyDraconus]

But what I mean is, he couldnt just challenge anyone on earth to mortal kombat or else he would have picked a fight with the local karate dojo next to walmart for the easy win. It almost HAS to be someone with authority. A head of state or a local god. Otherwise it would have been laughably easy to stack the deck in his favor and win.

Since when have some random isolated monks held authority over a country, let alone the entire planet earth? The only reason mk1 Story wise happened was cause Raiden stepped in to prevent win number 10

[Traab]

Since when have some random isolated monks held authority over a country, let alone the entire planet earth? The only reason mk1 Story wise happened was cause Raiden stepped in to prevent win number 10

I thought raiden was a part of the tournament from the start? Not as a contestant so much as the guy working to keep earth under its own control. Eh whatever, the mk lore is bullcrap, just, just all of it. This is what happens you you create a fighting game then try to come up with a lore rich universe to justify it because it was popular enough for a couple sequels.

[HolyDraconus]

I thought raiden was a part of the tournament from the start? Not as a contestant so much as the guy working to keep earth under its own control. Eh whatever, the mk lore is bullcrap, just, just all of it. This is what happens you you create a fighting game then try to come up with a lore rich universe to justify it because it was popular enough for a couple sequels.
LOL. True.
Raiden didn't directly intervene until it was going to be a certainty that Kahn will win. As a God, he has to follow the rules of the Elder Gods, which at one point said 'no more divine intervention '. Fast forward several thousand years, Earthrealm is being threatened. Raiden petitions the Elders and they pretty much said 'nah dood, rules are rules'. Nine wins later (or 500 years) Shang loses to Kung Lao. Who then loses later to Goro.. who goes on another nine win streak. Raiden, seeing that the Elders won't do a bloody thing, then goes out and handpicked several combatants to defend Earthrealm. One of soon to be many loopholes and rules abuse MK features. So to the earlier statement, it is entirely possible Kahn has been challenging the dojo that doubles as a library for easy wins. Tack on the fact that no one today would believe that he was serious until after he won and you get.... annihilation.

[russdm]

Personally, I think that you (People in Thread) just need to pick either Movies Shao or just Doctor Doom Shao. Otherwise this becomes pointless.

Doctor Doom: (Verb) To place someone or something that is being used in a VS thread where: 1) it is impossible to fully determine what that someone or something is actually capable of, or 2) that the canon abilities are all over the place, or 3) that to make the VS possible requires throwing the goal posts all over the place, in a state of non-use. Directly refers to Doctor DOOM and other such Comic characters who, thanks to canon, are so insane in establishing what power they actually have, are no longer capable or acceptable of being used in any VS thread, ever again.
Other uses: Doctor Doomed

[HolyDraconus]

Personally, I think that you (People in Thread) just need to pick either Movies Shao or just Doctor Doom Shao. Otherwise this becomes pointless.

Doctor Doom: (Verb) To place someone or something that is being used in a VS thread where: 1) it is impossible to fully determine what that someone or something is actually capable of, or 2) that the canon abilities are all over the place, or 3) that to make the VS possible requires throwing the goal posts all over the place, in a state of non-use. Directly refers to Doctor DOOM and other such Comic characters who, thanks to canon, are so insane in establishing what power they actually have, are no longer capable or acceptable of being used in any VS thread, ever again.
Other uses: Doctor Doomed

Didn't Death Battle have Doom v Vader? Lol

[Traab]

Didn't Death Battle have Doom v Vader? Lol

Yep, doom won. Not surprising considering a simple matchup of relative feats.

[Kyberwulf]

Okay, show me, in cannon. Where Vader has come across a Dimension hoping, soul stealing, magic using sorcerer(who by the way, is also some titan of physical prowess). Whose power isn't part of the force. Show me where he has then fallen back into space where he bombarded the planet so well, he glassed the surface without the probable problematic tendency of people just teleporting onto his ship . Show me where he has interacted with literal gods, and faced them down. In cannon.

I am merely battling baseless assertions with equal assertions, and some logic thrown in. The fact is, MK isn't that fleshed out as a world. Not to the same extent that Star Wars is, we don't know a lot of the lore. Maybe they don't have spaceships, because they don't need it. They can just teleport from world to world. To make a claim that Vader wins because he has spaceships, is equally as egregious as claiming Shao Kahn wins, cause when he comes into play you have a wrath of god.

This battle is the equivalent of asking who would win in a fight, Little Mac or The hulk.

The only reason people want Vader to win, is because is so popular. The Force is some universal mystical force that is indefeatable.

Vader has never faced something like Shao Kahn before.

Shao Kahn would just see another Magic using Cyborg.

[Mato]

It's been awhile so I'm playing catch up here.


Heh, isnt he more like an anti sayian? Dont they get stronger every time they get curb stomped while he gets stronger every time he wins?In war, win or lose, the guy who collects the souls of the dead wins. Also Super seems to have retconned this into "getting more powerful while fighting".


Consider: the Galactic Empire consists of a huge number of planets, not all of which are equally defended, and some being only nominally under Empire's rule.Are the non-human planets even under the cover of the Empire to begin with or is it just like pay us our taxes or die?


Didn't someone say that Earthrealm has the highest level of technology in the MK multiverse?Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Shao Kahn's ability to materialize things out of midair could just be a miniaturized replicator from Star Trek.


And im still waiting for you to refute my wolverine wins counterpoint.Wolverine is not part of this fight, and he'd totally kick Vader's rear as the Sith Berserker but lose to Kahn's ability to point him at his enemies.


The size of Shao Kahn's army is being vastly Vastly overstated. His standard operating procedure that we know and has been verified throughout the series is that he'll Declare Mortal Kombat, beat that Realm's Champions and kill off most of the populous except for perhaps a handful of people, and eat the souls of everyone else.Actually he has to beat those champions in order to earn the right to invade. MK3 plays with the rules to bypass the Tournament but that only causes the Elder Gods to step in and smack you back down for violating their rules. Rule that were expressly created to prevent Shao Kahn from invading other Realms after Outworld became too powerful for any one Realm to stand against it.


This is what he did on Edenia, This is what he did on Tesselar, this is what he's shown to do on every Realm he goes to. Shao Khan doesn't have these vast armies of all of the untold billions of people from a realm he conqured, He has his main army that he uses to strongarm people into accepting MK and a handful or people from worlds he deemed useful. This is stated fact in the games.Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, and and extra nope. :smallsigh:

Actually, the third rule of Mortal Kombat is it cannot be refused. No one has a choice to deny participation, that's just a gimmick that appeared in the non-canonical film's near-ending that disagrees with the franchise's games. But It's nice to see you haven't played the games, or even read the wiki, before asserting what you seen in a movie as being in the game.

Also it seems this has come up again on this page and was being corrected so I'm just adding a second voice to it.


Then I have to give the advantage to Vader. If Jax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jax_(Mortal_Kombat)) or Johnny Cage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Cage) can plausibly defeat SK with fists, then Vader can beat SK with an unblockable light sword and force precognition.Actually Johnny Cage didn't beat Kahn "with his fists".

Johnny Cage is first and foremost a supernatural fighter. His shadow kick isn't just a gimmick, MKX even has his daughter Cassie acquiring his powers, but rather a trait of his ability to manipulate his shadow. He can use it to summon fireballs or even a shadow attacker to assault his enemy while he hangs back like some kind of ninjitsu shadow clone.

His "human" traits outside of the silly depictions during fighting include feats like falling several stories from a helicopter unharmed, tanking Scorpion's hellfire and Subzero's streaming blast and the latter has proven to be able to near-instantly freeze at least simultaneously three people solid within a second or two, and in the comics Raiden, infused with the Kamidogu, blasts the battle field outside of a tournament and a hit Johnny Cage was able to stand up afterwards. He is fast enough and perception enough to to sense and block a teleporting highly trained ninja assassin and he once caught Reptile's tongue which was faster than Sonya's ability to pull the trigger on her gun that was already aimed at Reptile's head. These feats on the scale of any Jedi Master or Sith Lord without any need to concentrate on the force to perform them.

And if you want to actually include game mechanics, he is so awesome he can punch your head off your neck. Three times in a row! :smallconfused:




Meanwhile, I still havnt seen an argument that Vader cannot choose his personal, customized 1-man fightercraft as his Mortal Kombat Weapon and Armor. Only that Shao Khan can turtle and force Vader to dodge his own laserblasts
Isn't that enough? I mean if the ship effectively can't hurt Shao Kahn, then it's not much use.

But another reason could be that the battlefield won't be able to fit it in. Like, say, they were dueling on the bridge of a Star Destroyer.This.

All Traab and Rakaydos can do is comment well I haven't seen star ships like it's some kind of point. It's built on an assumption of who has the burden of proof, they think they don't have to prove Vader is better than Shao Kahn for him to win, only that in some areas Khan is Vader's equal. :smallsigh:

And I'm sorry but this is fair play. I still haven't seen an argument set forth in four pages about how Vader would win outside of using a space ship to blast him which has already been proven to be ineffective.


Hmm.. I ask again, however, what if we allow Vader to fight at his peak instead of as a half-dead cripple -- as Ep. III Anakin Skywalker?Can we use the version of Khan that absorbed all of the realms and was granted one all powerful wish?

Because maybe Shao Kahn just wishes to absorb all the souls of Star Wars which includes thousands of Sith Lords and Jedi Masters. :smalltongue:


I think that maybe Mortal Kombat is stupid and just a game.Someone kind of already pointed this out.

The MK universe is all about supernatural Gods, ninjas, real-world ripoffs, game bugs becoming new characters, and the rules of cool such as being able to shatter your opponent into three rib cages and more femurs than your local cemetery. It's game, story mode, comics, and show really don't care about what precedents they set and the entire thing was thought up years afterwards as an excuse for a few paragraphs of intro text for the games.

In the efforts to make their characters have stakes for losing they threw in world conquering. Then invented a villain who did it a countless number of times before who is at least generally forced to obey Elder God rules, so they added in an Elder God as the villain, then they added in the guy who could kill all the Elder Gods, then they added a guy who was meant to balance their absurdity, then they said the heck with this chaotic story and rebooted the entire thing. It's a very terrible story line because there wasn't really a point to it.

And the reboot hasn't exactly done any better. Their depictions are even worse now than ever before. But games aside, MK's universe is slightly higher on the scale of power than any depiction of Star War's Jedi/Sith short of Starkiller from the Force Unleashed. And Kahn has several advantages the no one has actually refuted.

Like this.

Vader has never faced something like Shao Kahn before.
Shao Kahn would just see another Magic using Cyborg.
As Traab brought up, one of the unsaid rules of the vs threads is there is generally no added preparation between opponents. But one of these guys already knows of, and is prepared for, the other's general type. Which is just another very clear advantage that goes without being acknowledged.

[Traab]

Wolverine is not part of this fight, and he'd totally kick Vader's rear as the Sith Berserker but lose to Kahn's ability to point him at his enemies.

You are dodging my point because you cant refute it. You are trying to say that I have to prove shao khan doesnt have space fleets and the fact that he never uses any, never is written to have any, and never is shown to even remotely reach a tech level to have any doesnt count as proof. So I respond with, "Then in that case wolverine teleports in and insta kills both contestants, because you cant prove he doesnt have the power to do that if he wants." Wolverine isnt the point, the point is your stubborn refusal to accept that how versus fights work is, neither contestant has access to anything canon doesnt say they have.

You might as well declare that shao khan also gets to use a green lantern ring because I cant point to a specific line of his backstory that precludes him from having one. It doesnt work like that, each character gets what their canon material says they get, and there is absolutely no mention of space traveling capability in shao khans history.

[Kyberwulf]

Where is it stated Wolverine has any ability to teleport in any case? Without help?

[Traab]

Where is it stated Wolverine has any ability to teleport in any case? Without help?

Its not. But its never stated that he COULDNT if he wanted to! Thats the "shao khan has spaceships" logic.

[Forum Explorer]

Actually he has to beat those champions in order to earn the right to invade. MK3 plays with the rules to bypass the Tournament but that only causes the Elder Gods to step in and smack you back down for violating their rules. Rule that were expressly created to prevent Shao Kahn from invading other Realms after Outworld became too powerful for any one Realm to stand against it.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, and and extra nope. :smallsigh:

Actually, the third rule of Mortal Kombat is it cannot be refused. No one has a choice to deny participation, that's just a gimmick that appeared in the non-canonical film's near-ending that disagrees with the franchise's games. But It's nice to see you haven't played the games, or even read the wiki, before asserting what you seen in a movie as being in the game.

Also it seems this has come up again on this page and was being corrected so I'm just adding a second voice to it.


Okay, but MK needs multiple contenders correct? In which case, who besides Vader, will represent the Empire? Palpatine I guess. Mara Jade if she's still canon. Um, Boba Fett? I don't know.



Actually Johnny Cage didn't beat Kahn "with his fists".

Johnny Cage is first and foremost a supernatural fighter. His shadow kick isn't just a gimmick, MKX even has his daughter Cassie acquiring his powers, but rather a trait of his ability to manipulate his shadow. He can use it to summon fireballs or even a shadow attacker to assault his enemy while he hangs back like some kind of ninjitsu shadow clone.

His "human" traits outside of the silly depictions during fighting include feats like falling several stories from a helicopter unharmed, tanking Scorpion's hellfire and Subzero's streaming blast and the latter has proven to be able to near-instantly freeze at least simultaneously three people solid within a second or two, and in the comics Raiden, infused with the Kamidogu, blasts the battle field outside of a tournament and a hit Johnny Cage was able to stand up afterwards. He is fast enough and perception enough to to sense and block a teleporting highly trained ninja assassin and he once caught Reptile's tongue which was faster than Sonya's ability to pull the trigger on her gun that was already aimed at Reptile's head. These feats on the scale of any Jedi Master or Sith Lord without any need to concentrate on the force to perform them.

And if you want to actually include game mechanics, he is so awesome he can punch your head off your neck. Three times in a row! :smallconfused:


Well let's compare him to Vader then:

Falling several stories? Vader has survived his space ship crashing without significant damage.

Immunity to Fire and Ice? Standard part of Vader's suit, seen in that link before.

Vader did catch a blaster bolt, and we've seen other other Jedi catch JarJar's super fast tongue as well. (and none of this concentrating stuff, they managed to hold a conversation at the same time)

Beyond that, Vader can throw objects and people telekinetically, force choke people, and has a sword that can cut through anything. If Johnny Cage can beat Kahn, I see no reason why Vader can't.

[Kyberwulf]

So, I want to live in your world. Where technology grants you automatic immunity to something. I mean, by this logic, Scientist with those tin foil suits can go swimming in the lava? His suit doesn't make him immune. Just helps him with the effects.

And also. You just defeated your own argument. I agree, Wolverine could be given the power to teleport, probably has to be honest. By the way. I wasn't serious, I was being disingenuous to your argument.

I agree, Wolverine could Teleport in and start fighting. That kind of defeats a Death match between Shao Kahn and Darth Vader. Kind of the same way, saying Vader can just go get space ships and bomb the world to smitherines(which by the way, I don't think would Kill Shao Kahn anyway).. Or the other side, saying Shao Khan can just instakill the world, which you have said Uh-uh, That doesn't count as a Death Match. In my view, saying Darth Vader running away to get bigger guns, is the same as admitting defeat.

Also, I never said Shao Kahn has spaceships. I said he could have space ships.

[Traab]

So, I want to live in your world. Where technology grants you automatic immunity to something. I mean, by this logic, Scientist with those tin foil suits can go swimming in the lava? His suit doesn't make him immune. Just helps him with the effects.

And also. You just defeated your own argument. I agree, Wolverine could be given the power to teleport, probably has to be honest. By the way. I wasn't serious, I was being disingenuous to your argument.

I agree, Wolverine could Teleport in and start fighting. That kind of defeats a Death match between Shao Kahn and Darth Vader. Kind of the same way, saying Vader can just go get space ships and bomb the world to smitherines(which by the way, I don't think would Kill Shao Kahn anyway).. Or the other side, saying Shao Khan can just instakill the world, which you have said Uh-uh, That doesn't count as a Death Match. In my view, saying Darth Vader running away to get bigger guns, is the same as admitting defeat.

Also, I never said Shao Kahn has spaceships. I said he could have space ships.

Ok you are just all over the place so im done, no, shao khan could not have space ships. Nowhere in the entire existence of mortal kombat as a series has space travel ever been a thing that exists. Deal with it.

[Kyberwulf]

You are the one proclaiming an insta win, if Darth Vader runs away and get's starships. Without providing any sources stating Shao Kahn has not way to deal with ships. I am meeting baseless assertions with baseless assertions. Also, in MK vs DC, don't they fight on a starbase? Which you just open up, by saying nowhere in the series.

[Rakaydos]

You are the one proclaiming an insta win, if Darth Vader runs away and get's starships. Without providing any sources stating Shao Kahn has not way to deal with ships. I am meeting baseless assertions with baseless assertions. Also, in MK vs DC, don't they fight on a starbase? Which you just open up, by saying nowhere in the series.

Isnt that starbase from DC?

[Devonix]

Mateo wher did you get that I didn't play the games. That info is directly from the games not from the movies. Tesselar never even shows up in the films so why would you assume that? And the citizens of Edenia being killed off is a huge part of Kitana's backstory.


Check the background of the characters before you start implying someone is pulling something out of their ass.
From the MK Wiki
((Eventually, the Emperor of Outworld known as Shao Kahn invaded the realm of Zaterra where he swiftly conquered it. As many other realms before it, the lands of the Zaterrans began to merge into Shao Kahn's own kingdom with the Raptors driven to extinction except for a few members of their kind. Among the survivors were Reptile and Khameleon; the first of the two decided to serve Shao Kahn whilst the latter intended to get revenge for the destruction of her kind. ))

Edenia had a similar war and lots of deaths however enough people were left alive after Shao Khan's defeat that the planet was still left to thrive.

Invades. Kills off most of the population except for a handful of people. takes everyone's souls and moves on, just like I said.

[Mato]

You are dodging my point because you cant refute it.I haven't dodged your point.

You're trying to say the ability to travel across the galaxy in a few weeks in a metal case to pry open a stone structure is better than instantly teleporting into you're opponent's bedroom from across space/time and stabbing them while their asleep. I disagree for what I feel is fairly obvious reasons.

Also Star Wars on a basic level is not about technology, that's Star Trek, and your favorite is just a prime example of that. Like Boba Fett equipped miniaturized weapons, like MK's universe, but Vader doesn't even deploy one of those shields the rolling droids do. He shirks a gun that isn't even as effective as modern bullets in favorite of a sword. The fact that you rely on the Empire's battleships ran by people who are not Vader is a testament of your confidence in Vader being able to do anything on his own or utilize the technology in his world.


If Johnny Cage can beat Kahn, I see no reason why Vader can't.You comparison overlooks the fact that Johnny Cage and Sonya combined failed to beat Shao Kahn. :smallsigh:

Pendell's statement was Johnny Cage could plausible beat Shao Khan. Presumably that's because in the new timeline he's taken Liu Kang's place as the main protagonist and if Li could do it Johnny could to. But as a matter of fact, Johnny and his combat ally were beaten aside by what amounts to a backhanded slap in the form of a single blast of energy.


Mateo wher did you get that I didn't play the games.
From the MK WikiSpeaking of "From the MK Wiki"


3. Mortal Kombat, once declared, cannot be refused by either party.
Rule three proves

Shao Khan doesn't have these vast armies of all of the untold billions of people from a realm he conqured, He has his main army that he uses to strongarm people into accepting MK and a handful or people from worlds he deemed useful.This is incorrect. He doesn't have to bully anyone into a tournament, the army is just there to kill billions of people within a day or so of merging without having to result to bomb or other long ranged weapons.

Also, MKII's entire plot was tricking Earthrealm into having another tournament when it didn't need to. You don't really even need an army when you are willing to exploit your opponent's gullibility. Sort of like how Palpatine exploited Anakin's gullibility, except I think most people would have said no before the point of murdering a dozen of unarmed terrified and hiding innocent kids. So maybe the best question to ask would be, are we even sure Vader would fight Shao Khan? Everything Anakin did was originally based on trying to protect people and Shao Khan can literately resurrect them or even honestly promise Vader that he'll literately invade Heaven & Hell allowing Vader to find their souls.