Am I being clever or too obvious?

[LunarDrop]

I'm going to be DMing my first game soon and the theme will be the constant state of Good VS. Evil. Two recurring NPCS will symbolize this; a fey fox (Who is secretly a level 15 cleric), and an Imp. The fox will constantly be stalking the party and -should they die- secretly revive them. The imp... well, now we get to my dilemma.
I'm considering one of two routes:
A- The Imp disguises itself as a spider and is always on one of the party member's shoulders.
B- The Imp -disguised as a spider, raven, or a rat (depending on which is chosen by the player)- will approach the ranger and be his animal companion.

Am I being cliché or obvious here? Any advice? It's my first time being a DM so I'm anxious to do well.

[Sigreid]

I'm going to be DMing my first game soon and the theme will be the constant state of Good VS. Evil. Two recurring NPCS will symbolize this; a fey fox (Who is secretly a level 15 cleric), and an Imp. The fox will constantly be stalking the party and -should they die- secretly revive them. The imp... well, now we get to my dilemma.
I'm considering one of two routes:
A- The Imp disguises itself as a spider and is always on one of the party member's shoulders.
B- The Imp -disguised as a spider, raven, or a rat (depending on which is chosen by the player)- will approach the ranger and be his animal companion.

Am I being cliché or obvious here? Any advice? It's my first time being a DM so I'm anxious to do well.

I think the imp being the ranger's animal companion would be a jerk move as if they ever find themselves needing or deciding to fight the imp he's without his companion.

[Flashy]

A couple thoughts on this.

First, I don't know if this will bother you or your group, but why has the 15th level Cleric not long since obliterated the CR 1 imp? There's a pretty sharp power mismatch going on here.

Second, I think you're relying too much on your party behaving in exactly the way you expect them to. If you have option A you're relying on your players either never noticing you have a spider on their shoulder. If you go with option B you're assuming your ranger will choose to be a beastmaster, and then willingly select a CR 0 animal companion instead of a substantially more powerful CR 1/4. Considering that this is essentially a beastmaster ranger's primary class feature, I think that's a questionable assumption.

I think it's a much stronger idea to simply have the Raven flitting around, occasionally dropping information on them, and generally seeming like a harmless but fundamentally friendly NPC. Constantly monitoring them is pretty risky.

[LunarDrop]

I think the imp being the ranger's animal companion would be a jerk move as if they ever find themselves needing or deciding to fight the imp he's without his companion.

If that was the case I would allow him to use the fey fox earlier mentioned.


A couple thoughts on this.

First, I don't know if this will bother you or your group, but why has the 15th level Cleric not long since obliterated the CR 1 imp? There's a pretty sharp power mismatch going on here.

Second, I think you're relying too much on your party behaving in exactly the way you expect them to. If you have option A you're relying on your players either never noticing you have a spider on their shoulder. If you go with option B you're assuming your ranger will choose to be a beastmaster, and then willingly select a CR 0 animal companion instead of a substantially more powerful CR 1/4. Considering that this is essentially a beastmaster ranger's primary class feature, I think that's a questionable assumption.

I think it's a much stronger idea to simply have the Raven flitting around, occasionally dropping information on them, and generally seeming like a harmless but fundamentally friendly NPC. Constantly monitoring them is pretty risky.

He told me already he would be a Beastmaster. I told him also that if he picked a raven/rat/spider I would buff it significantly (secretly this would be the Imp stats and immunities/resistances.)

[Nifft]

I don't really get why you would need two extra NPCs to symbolize evil & good.

There ought to be evil & good all over the place, and the PCs ought to be punching some of it in the face on a regular basis.

The PCs aren't characters in a story -- they're characters in a game. If you want evil to be a thing that strikes deeply into a character, then it should be the result of the character's choices.

I mean, imagine if the Ranger character found out that you'd slipped him an imp as a class feature. Would the player care? Or would the PC shrug and say, "I guess there are some non-evil imps, lucky me."

Basically: too subtle, and possibly in the wrong direction.

[Anderlith]

Rangers usually do not take non combat animals as companions. Also having a class feature turned into an antagonistic NPC isnt good. Have the Imp disguised as a raven maybe white or another odd color. Have him lead the party to believe he powerful wizard/cleric etc. that was cursed to be a raven. Have him set them up into doing things for him, pushing them slowly into evil. BUT if you do this never force them to make any bad decision, let them make slippery choices, not woops i killed the king cause you said he was the bad guy.

[Laserlight]

I don't see how they're symbolizing anything--it sounds like the players won't really be aware of them.

Are the NPCs trying to guide the party into doing good/ evil? If so, how do they interact with the party? If not, then what is the point of their following the party around--particularly the L15 cleric, who presumably could do much better things with his time?

[Mellack]

I have to agree with the last poster. Why does a level 15 cleric give a damn about a bunch of 1st level adventures. The cleric is more powerful then the group of them put together, and could easily curb-stomp anything they are supposed to be fighting against. If you want him to deal with the party, I think it would be more reasonable to just have the cleric talk to them and send them out on some minor missions that he might want handeled.

[Leith]

I don't want to tell you not to do this, but do not do this. If you want to have these two beings helping and goading the party, grand. As long as you don't force them to only do what you want. Consider, however, that the best way to get PCs to do anything is to give the bonuses.
If the fox is mysterious and offers little for the party other than the knowledge that they've done good, while the Imp is obviously evil, obviously an imp and offers them gold, magic items and other loot... Well all you've gotta do is keep the both of them alive.

[GorinichSerpant]

It appears to me that you want a mystical fey fox who has the player's backs encase things get to hairy, and the 15 cleric levels on his are there simply to give him the ability to raise the PC. If that is true I would only give it the abilitys that it needs to have to fill that role without the things you don't want your fox to have. For example you could build this character as a fox with it's type changed from beast to fey, Raise Dead as a spell ability that is limited in some way (so death doesn't become meaningless), something else like invisibility, eternalness or so forth that allows the fox to follow the party unnoticed, and renaming it's stat block to "Guardian Spirit". Another way to do this is make it into a sort of anti-imp, instead of a poisonous stinger they could get the ability to cast Spare the Dying at will and can call a more powerful being to help the party out if the situation is dire. The advantage of an "anti-imp" is that it is on equal footing with it's evil counter-part.

[CaptainSarathai]

Honest opinion? It might make a good novel, but your PCs almost certainly won't notice, and likely won't apreciate your deep, moralistic, commentary.

First time DMing is hard enough. Seriously. Just focus on running tight encounters, keeping your rules straight, polishing your improv, and learning the ins and outs of controlling a table of adults on the brink of Monty-Python themed hysteria, and time-management.

Write 1 town
Write 1 dungeon
Write 3 hooks to that dungeon
Put 1 McGuffin at the end of that dungeon
Write 1 deck of monster cards for ~3 random encounters
Ask your party why they're in town, and who theyre working for.

That should get you through about 3 nights worth of material - arrival and hooks, +1 random wilderness en'route to dungeon. The dungeon, where they retrieve the McGuffin for whoever they declared they were working for. Then 2 random encounters while traveling to return the McGuffin.

That's 3 sessions to turn their back stories and ideas into a workable adventure arc from 1-5ish. Get there, then decide if this is for you.

[Brendanicus]

I'm going to be DMing my first game soon

Rule #1 of Dming- keep it simple. DM's think that deep lore, kewl NPCs, and epic setpiece encounters are the best way to the player's heart.

However, the best way to keep a campaign good is to start simple and start slow. If you start of with a few simple quests, like hunting down bandits or defending people from a cult, your layers wil have time to get a grip for the tone of the DM and their characters.

Once you are a few sessions in, then start thinking if you want to include larger, more complicated plots, or how they would be run. By being simple, you give yourself a lot of flexibility with plot writing that you lack f you want to instill strong themes from the get-go.

Drop the uber-cleric mystery entirely. Players don't want a DMPC bailing them out of everything and overshadow them.

[Herobizkit]

I would consider making the Fey Fox a re-skinned Pseudodragon, flight included (it's magic flight, woo!) and then trying your Good/Evil dichotomy.

Also, I would have the imp pester/annoy the Ranger's animal companion versus BEING the Ranger's companion. Give the companion a chance to shine by eventually identifying the source of its torment and alerting the PC to it.

Should a PC die, they should be and stay dead, or have the heroes find a way to revive him. Divine intervention never goes very well as it takes the agency of the player away and often robs them of their sacrifice/props for dying.

[LunarDrop]

Thanks to everyone for the ideas and advice, if I may I'd like to demonstrate how I see the game turning out and why I'm doing the things I'm doing:

The first few minutes of the game will have the party stumble upon a fox stuck in a trap (This is the Fey Fox earlier mentioned, and, should anyone perform a good enough arcana check/try to use magic to free it, they will discover it dispels magic on contact.). They will either free it or ignore it, setting its interest in the group.

The party has been invited to a mysterious man's home via a letter imploring them for help -for which he will pay very lucratively. As they get to his home and begin to talk to him one of two things will happen:

If the Fey Fox was freed, the Fey Fox will burst in and kill the man before immediately leaving (even if they try to stop it, because of its Fey ancestry it can teleport, they won't be able to). Should they investigate the home they will find that the man was planning on kidnapping them for unknown purposes. They can also find that the man has strong ties to a nearby village. They will then go to that village as they have nowhere else to go. The killing of this man has peaked the Imp's interest, and it will now begin following the party.
The party will have arrived at night, so they will stay at the inn. Upon morning/awakening they will find that they have been locked in their rooms. They will either sneak out, break out, or stay for some god awful reason, and either a search party or a fight will ensue.

If the Fey Fox was not freed, the man will knock them all out and physically take them to the village himself. They will all wake up in a cell (the Imp will be disguised as a rat or spider at this point and will be watching) and will have to solve a puzzle to escape. The Fey Fox will refuse to come to their aid here for multiple reasons (A- It wants to see if they live up to its expectations & B- This village is based of Innsmouth, where animals don't dare go.) so they are on their own. They will escape eventually.

Whether or not they hear barking (the Fey Fox's doing) or they investigate the town and find that a sacrifice is underway in the woods, the party finds an injured man. And what they do here will change the game.

Should they escort the man home, they will find wanted posters for a mysterious group of thieves (this turns out to be the Fey Fox, who -as is in its trickster nature- has been taking loose coin). They can choose to follow this lead, whereas bandits will follow them for the loot.

Should they kill him they will be approached by a celestial being (a Leonal) and -since the challenge rating will be too high- they will lose. They will wake up in cells and are told they are to be 'judged'. Nobody knows what it means to be judged, only that nobody comes back from being judged. (In reality, the players have been killed and are in purgatory.) They can either cheat death and break out/escape, waking up where they had fallen, or they can wait for the trial and be ruled Good creatures, where they will wake up where they had fallen.

And that is all I have so far. Tell me what you think please.

[smcmike]

Where are the fights?

[LunarDrop]

I didn't state when the fights are, but they are in there. Part of the puzzle is staving off two dark mantles as you struggle to free everyone. Should they break out or stay in the inn they will fight. If they confront the search party they will fight. They can try to fight off the fox if it attacks the man. There will be random encounters in the woods.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Thanks to everyone for the ideas and advice, if I may I'd like to demonstrate how I see the game turning out and why I'm doing the things I'm doing:

The first few minutes of the game will have the party stumble upon a fox stuck in a trap (This is the Fey Fox earlier mentioned, and, should anyone perform a good enough arcana check/try to use magic to free it, they will discover it dispels magic on contact.). They will either free it or ignore it, setting its interest in the group.


...Or they'll kill it. Foxes are a pest, people trap them for a reason. And there's good eating on one of those. And if they find a magic-dispelling fox, they're certainly going to investigate it further.
Why would such an interaction make Foxy interested in the group? Whatever they do, they won't have seemed particularly exceptional, in terms of skill or morality - any idiot can stumble across a fox in the woods and ignore it.
And how the heck is the high-level caster stuck in a freaking trap in the first place? Does it just get itself stuck in traps expecting random parties of adventurers to stumble over it?



The party has been invited to a mysterious man's home via a letter imploring them for help -for which he will pay very lucratively. As they get to his home and begin to talk to him one of two things will happen:

Fairly reasonable, cries for help accompanied by the promise of gold are the surest way to an adventurer's grubby little heart.



If the Fey Fox was freed, the Fey Fox will burst in and kill the man before immediately leaving (even if they try to stop it, because of its Fey ancestry it can teleport, they won't be able to). Should they investigate the home they will find that the man was planning on kidnapping them for unknown purposes.

1. Never underestimate the inventiveness of PCs when it comes to not doing what you expect them to.
2. Though killing someone and making their escape is probably within the capabilities of a high-level cleric (assuming the PCs are low-level), it's really annoying for them, makes them feel like they're stuck in a non-interactive cutscene. It's also a good way to make the players hate the random murder fox.
3. Also, the symbol of good is just straight-up murdering people? No attempts at getting a surrender, or a nonlethal takedown?



They can also find that the man has strong ties to a nearby village. They will then go to that village as they have nowhere else to go. The killing of this man has peaked the Imp's interest, and it will now begin following the party.

1. Why do they have nowhere else to go? There's surely going to be other settlements in range (like wherever the PCs started, for one). If you try and say they don't have the supplies to get anywhere else, they're going to break out the foraging rules to prove you wrong. And they don't have much in character reason to go there, as they don't have any kind of mission (beyond maybe 'find that damn murderous Fox'), just an implication that this guy has connections there, which might be just as good a reason to stay away.
2. Why does this get the Imp interested in the party? They still haven't done anything exceptional. And where did the Imp come from in the first place? Was he just flitting about randomly, expecting a bunch of adventurers to turn up?
3. Also, why isn't the Fox intervening? It's a high-level caster, it can get itself out of a trap (and if it somehow can't, why does it appear further on in the story)? Does the symbol of good let people get kidnapped just because they aren't sufficiently compassionate to local vermin?



The party will have arrived at night, so they will stay at the inn. Upon morning/awakening they will find that they have been locked in their rooms. They will either sneak out, break out, or stay for some god awful reason, and either a search party or a fight will ensue.

1. Unless they're too paranoid to sleep in the village with connections to evil kidnappers and camp outside instead. Or too cheap to pay for a room, or they bother to keep a watch, or one of them's an Elf and thus is never actually unconscious.
2. ...Why are they locked in their rooms in the first place? Just random local dickishness by random locals who are ***** for no clear reason?
3. Or they just naff off out of this craphole. There's no obvious mission, and no obvious payday.



If the Fey Fox was not freed, the man will knock them all out and physically take them to the village himself.

Because getting hit with Deus Ex Machina kidnapping is always fun. How is the man achieving this? Is he another random high level character? If so, how was Foxy able to kill him before the PCs where able to respond? And what's his motivation here, anyway?



They will all wake up in a cell (the Imp will be disguised as a rat or spider at this point and will be watching)

What's the Imp's interest in the party? To it, they're just a bunch of random nobodies who got kidnapped. Were I an Imp, I'd be much more interested in the kidnappers.



and will have to solve a puzzle to escape.

Why? Why would there be a puzzle to escape from a cell, other than the puzzle of the sturdy locked door and the guard with no imagination and a big stick?



The Fey Fox will refuse to come to their aid here for multiple reasons (A- It wants to see if they live up to its expectations & B- This village is based of Innsmouth, where animals don't dare go.) so they are on their own.

1. What expectations? All they've done so far is not help a trapped animal and get kidnapped. They have had absolutely no opportunity to justify any kind of expectations.
2. Why do animals not dare to enter? Being based off of something else is not a sufficient answer, there has to be an actual reason. In Innsmouth it's because of the Deep Ones, are there any Deep Ones here? Because you should lead with that. Also, why does this effect Foxy - they're a sentient, semi-fey high level being, not a normal animal.
3. And now the symbol of good is both a **** who will leave people to their fates if they're insufficiently good at puzzles, and a coward who won't dare enter a place they could easily survive.



They will escape eventually.

Will they now? Puzzles are notoriously hit and miss in tabletop, it's easy for people to just be on a different wavelength from you and not get it.



Whether or not they hear barking (the Fey Fox's doing) or they investigate the town and find that a sacrifice is underway in the woods, the party finds an injured man. And what they do here will change the game.

Or they just naff off and run, because given how easily one man incapacitated them earlier they're obviously in way over their heads.



Should they escort the man home, they will find wanted posters for a mysterious group of thieves (this turns out to be the Fey Fox, who -as is in its trickster nature- has been taking loose coin). They can choose to follow this lead, whereas bandits will follow them for the loot.

So the symbol of good also steals random people's hard-earned belongings for their own amusement. That's not being a trickster, that's being an arse. Also, where are they following this lead? Because they're sure as hell not going to be bringing Foxy in. Also, that's not what whereas means.



Should they kill him they will be approached by a celestial being (a Leonal) and -since the challenge rating will be too high- they will lose.
They will wake up in cells and are told they are to be 'judged'. Nobody knows what it means to be judged, only that nobody comes back from being judged. (In reality, the players have been killed and are in purgatory.) They can either cheat death and break out/escape, waking up where they had fallen, or they can wait for the trial and be ruled Good creatures, where they will wake up where they had fallen.

Great, another random Deus Ex Machina from another random high level NPC. Why is the Leonal randomly intervening here? Why is this particular murder resulting in celestial intervention, and not all the other wrongdoings that are happening? This entire section is railroady, annoying, and utterly pointless, given that it will always end the same way with no actual change in the game world other than the knowledge that celestials are judging the PCs while simply ignoring the evil kidnapper cult or whatever down the road. And why would they be ruled good creatures after randomly murdering someone anyway?

Also, what do you do if the PCs simply ignore the wounded man, or just patch him up and send him on his way?


And that is all I have so far. Tell me what you think please.
Far too railroady, with too many high level npcs that have no reason not to be solving the situation themselves, and very little sense of agency for the players. Personally, I'd just cut the Fox and the Imp entirely, let the PCs fight back against the man who hired them when he tries to kidnap them, and have them discover his links to the village afterwards if they beat him (and have this evidence provide a compelling reason for the PCs to go there rather than stay the hell away, like implying some evil ritual is soon to be completed resulting in darkness covering the land or somesuch. Or just evidence that the village has stolen large amounts of valuables from kidnap victims over the years). If you're absolutely set on having the Fox and the Imp, depower them a lot so Foxy actually has a reason to mess about with them rather than solving the problems herself, and have the symbol of good do less thieving and murdering. Scrap the Leonal bit entirely, it's a pointless Deus ex Machina that has no real reason to exist and no appreciable result.

[Mellack]

Much of what Tea said above, but I am going to give a much shorter version. Players will almost never respond how you expect. Your plans will either go off the rails quickly, or you will be forced to railroad them so much that they will be basically reading a book instead of playing a game. I recommend that you plan out what will happen less and let it flow more naturally. Also, avoid having high power creatures intervene.

[Nifft]

Much of what Tea said above, but I am going to give a much shorter version. Players will almost never respond how you expect. Your plans will either go off the rails quickly, or you will be forced to railroad them so much that they will be basically reading a book instead of playing a game. I recommend that you plan out what will happen less and let it flow more naturally. Also, avoid having high power creatures intervene.

Yeah.

I say this as someone who has made the exact same mistake.

The most satisfying adventures that I've run have been situations where I did not know the solution -- or even if there was one. I just set up a situation, give the players a reason to care about it enough to get involved, and then do my best to adjudicate fairly whatever consequences arise from their actions.

There is no plot that can survive contact with the PCs.

Rather, the plot is the record of whatever dumb, suicidal interesting stuff the PCs end up doing.

[CaptainSarathai]

As a PC, when do I get to make a choice during your campaign?
This is the problem with official modules too, and in my experience, they bore the snot out of the players. They make it far too easy to fall into the trap of just reading exposition at them, and telling them where to go next. Eventually, they just check out.
DM: You find clues leading to the town of Dunwich, a poor town of...
PC: We go there, I guess
DM: Arriving at the town, you see several fishermen crowding around a dilapi...
PC: Whatever, where's the fox?
DM: The fox isn't here, remember? You're here to investigate the disappearance of cattle around the Whately fa...
PC: Oh. Sorry, wasn't really listening. I guess we start asking people about these cows or whatever. 17 on Investigation

People just check out when you start leading them around. If they don't feel like they're making meaningful choices, then they don't feel the need to listen to anything which might inform a decision. They're just characters in your story, with no influence and no reason to be there.

[Dr.Samurai]

LunarDrop, none of the responses is to say that you shouldn't have an idea of what you want to do. So your plan is fine. But be prepared to deal with the players doing things that you don't expect. It might not go as you think it will. But as a beginning DM (especially) you should have a framework of where you want the game to go.