Blacksmithing

[GorogIrongut]

I've never been a fan of the crafting rules in 5E. As such I've crafted my own and would be happy of any feedback to improve them.

Blacksmithing
There are roughly 3 tiers of blacksmithing tools. Those tools may be exceptionally well crafted for their given level and this will bring them up one level of efficacy.
--Level 1 Travelling rig. More intended for repairs and simple farming level creation. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 15. Gives no bonuses when making the DC Check.
--Level 2 Village Blacksmith. Suitable for a wide array of repairs and creation. It's good, but there are better. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 20. +2 when making the DC Check.
--Level 3 Royal Armourer. This smithery is kitted out and can be used to create almost anything. This level of smithing can be found in the bigger cities... but there are also many hermit blacksmiths who've sought the solace of the wild to better focus on their craft. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 30. +6 when making the DC Check.

Crafting, as per the rules, normally takes a crap ton of time to accomplish. There are shortcuts that can hasten the 5gp/per day creation rule. They are as follows:
1. Use of magic in the process can halve the time required. This can be innate magic or low level magic. The level of spell isn't what determines the level of magic, it is instead the character levels (in magic) that determine it's efficacy. If the player has greater than 10 levels, than this lowers to a third of the time.
2. The quality of materials being used for the job can also hasten the creation process. The more refined the ore (see adamantium, etc.) the quicker you're able to work. Quality materials can cut 5 days off of creation. The finest of materials can cut 10 days off of creation.
3. The player may be willing to hasten the crafting process, cutting corners and trusting to his/her skill as a blacksmith. For each day of work doing this, it counts as two days work... but adds a -1 to the final DC Check. A player can conversely take their time in crafting. For each day spent lovingly crafting an object, it counts as half of a creation day but adds a +1 to the final DC Check.

When crafting, the final DC check determines all. The player can take an extra DC check once a week. Failure means the project gets a -1 to the ultimate DC Check. Success gives the player a +1 to their ultimate DC Check.

On the final DC Check, a roll of a natural 20 or any score above a 30 guarantees master crafting of the object. It gets a non magical +1. It also receives a minor magical effect. If the player expends magical energy prior to the DC roll in an attempt to make it a magical item (these rules to be fleshed out later) AND succeeds as above, the DM can make the object a full fledged magical item. Note that only master crafted items can be made into magical items. So if a player expends the requisite magic to make magical plate armour but fails to get a score required to make it master crafted, then the magic is wasted and he is left with standard, unmagical plate armour.

On a roll of a 1 or a 2, the object appears to have been crafted perfectly. The smith is elated at his success. It is left to the DM to decide if the object has been cursed or will shatter horrifically at the most inopportune of moments.

[GorogIrongut]

Many people have looked, but my changes to blacksmithing must be underwhelming as not one person said anything. Not even to tell me they suck.

Is there a set of rules that accomplish the same thing but that you guys prefer? I'm open to all suggestions, I've got a character who wants blacksmithing available in game without being hamstrung.

[pwykersotz]

A couple pieces of feedback:

I've designed and thrown away dozens of crafting systems, so I'm not really in a position to judge the merits of your work with any kind of authority. But here's what I see that sticks out.


The classification of tools is a decent one. I feel it does a solid job of incorporating the distinction between a traveling anvil and a dwarven forge.
The use of magic to cut the time heavily favors casters. It hamstrings the non-caster item creation, which has always been distasteful to me. I want that legendary smith to be legendary because he has tremendous skill, not because he's a sorcerer. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Quality of materials is a great metric, but I'm not sure I like it for reducing time. Tools or smithy quality, that I can see. But quality materials should lead to a more quality product instead of faster creation.
A hasty job running risk and leaving it up to a roll is a good idea in my opinion.
Finally, I don't like the divide between player and character knowledge for the critical failure. I feel like that could be ironed out a bit. It could be seen to have a flaw, for example, but you don't know when it will fail. So it might be worth a risk to use.


My personal preference with crafting is to reduce the time dramatically (to fantasy levels). I feel two weeks is about the longest something should take to craft, even legendary items. Also, I like an accessible DC. I'd rather have the primary difficulty be money and access to special materials. The reasons for this are that it becomes easier to play your craft in-game, which is what most of my players want, and it feels a little more fun and useful. Thinking as a player, I want to feel awesome for my epic craft, not roll three failures in a row and feel like I can't smith something. I want to be able to say to my GM: "Hey, I got my hands on some adamantite last game! I want to forge a new sword for the Paladin!" I want to be able to accomplish this reasonably and have it be useful for this campaign.

As a final note, I've always enjoyed playing around with the "Cheap, Fast, or Quality, pick two" principle. I'm currently playing with a skill system that leverages those things. It's way different from what you're going for, but I'm just throwing out ideas here.
To craft an item, you must have possession of the necessary materials and tools. If you have these, make a craft roll by rolling 2d6 and adding your proficiency bonus. On a 13+ you have succeeded and choose one from the list of [Quickly, Cheaply, Well]. Those desiring a second option may choose one by sacrificing the third, taking double time, double cost, or making a purposefully flawed item both cheaply and quickly. On a 10-12, you succeed with no greater effect, and can choose one from the list at the expense of both others as listed above. On a 9 or less, you make a flawed item.

Quickly
An item that was produced quickly is made in half the expected time with no drawback in quality.

Cheaply
An item produced cheaply cost only half as much as expected to create with no drawback in quality.

Well
An item produced well is of high quality and has advantage against being broken, or for consumables either has unexpected potency or is extremely delicious.

Flawed
An item that is flawed is prone to breaking apart, having reduced potency, or tasting terrible. In all cases, it could lead to injury. On the use of a flawed item, roll another craft check with the modifier of the crafter. On a success, the item functions at reduced capacity, potency, or enjoyment. On a partial success, the item fails to function, is inert, or is inedible. On a failure, the item causes injury in an appropriate way.


Again, I'm speaking as an amateur here, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I've yet to find or design a system that I truly enjoy.

[Doug Lampert]

I'm also not going to critique your specifics, because a "Good" crafting system is almost entirely dependent on your objectives.

It's perfectly reasonable to say "adventurers aren't master craftsmen, they never build anything all that good".

It's perfectly reasonable to say "adventurers are super-humanly good at everything else, they also craft magic items in their sleep".

It's perfectly reasonable to say "adventurers aren't all the same, you can be good at crafting if you spend character resources on it".

It's perfectly reasonable to say "it's not worth the trouble, crafting is a tool proficiency and gives X GP/day, and that's it, because this game isn't about craftsmen making stuff, it's about breaking into people's homes, killing the inhabitants, and taking their stuff".

All of these can work, and they require different crafting systems.

Note that it's EASY to justify crafting being even slower than in 5th edition, if peasants are poor it's because they can't produce much value in a week's worth of work, and all of them presumably are proficient with their tools. It's also EASY to justify high level characters being much, much, much faster, who makes magic items worth lots of gold if crafting is slow? Pick your options.

What is your objective? Complexity for the sake of complexity is rarely good, and the game isn't about crafting, so decide roughly how you want things to work and go for that. You never list your objectives so I'm not sure how anyone can give a good critique.

[Sigreid]

I'm with ya on the crafting rules being full of suck. Haven't delved into them enough to constructively criticize your idea.

[GorogIrongut]

Thank you guys, I now realize how subjective something like this is. I'm also trying to take a hobby of mine and mold it in to the 5E rules system without it being too detailed or too tedious. So your feedback helps me from making this too technical.

Pwykersotz, I appreciate your Cheap, Fast and Dirty approach. It's something I would use because it's simple. Unfortunately my circumstances need a little more.

-The use of magic to cut the time heavily favors casters. It hamstrings the non-caster item creation, which has always been distasteful to me. I want that legendary smith to be legendary because he has tremendous skill, not because he's a sorcerer. Your mileage may vary, of course. Right now I'm actually dancing between various Youtube videos trying to improve my skills at stoking the fire in a forge. It's not as easy as it looks and there's a fair amount of time spent doing it. That's where the magic idea comes in. Initially the idea of using Heat Metal in the place of the forge seems epic and would save a lot of time. But as I reasoned, I felt that was too limiting what about the magic users who don't have access to that specific spell? Returning to the monk example that I'm dealing with... they use ki, which is one of the most basic building blocks of magic. Why couldn't they sacrifice ki (or in the case of other casters) spell levels to create a magical 'fire' within which to heat/change the structure of the metal to make it workable on an anvil? It would require a cost of their resources. You'll note that the mechanics only hasten the process of creation. There's no other implied benefit. Though I personally think it would be cool to have a shadow monk use their ki to impart unique colouration and shadow-like effects on whatever they create. That would however be left up to the DM and isn't within the scope of the rules that I'm creating.
-Quality of materials is a great metric, but I'm not sure I like it for reducing time. Tools or smithy quality, that I can see. But quality materials should lead to a more quality product instead of faster creation. This is a hold out for myself and smithing. It's a LOT faster and easier to smith an item if you're working from stock that you've already worked. In the olden days that one of the things a blacksmith's apprentice used to do... the menial jobs of turning the ore into a more workable material so that the blacksmith didn't have to do it themselves and was able to work a lot faster.
-Finally, I don't like the divide between player and character knowledge for the critical failure. I feel like that could be ironed out a bit. It could be seen to have a flaw, for example, but you don't know when it will fail. So it might be worth a risk to use. I agree with you on this one. I need to find a mechanic that helps the flaw work without the player actually knowing how badly they did.

I've been working on it a little more. Please tell me if this setup looks like too much of a hassle. I keep edging closer towards the rules for making magic items. This is because my player wants to be the kind of monk who can impart his ki through his craft to make something akin to the Green Destiny alla Crouching Tiger...

. Blacksmithing
There are roughly 3 tiers of blacksmithing tools. Those tools may be exceptionally well crafted for their given level and this will bring them up one level of efficacy.
--Level 0 Your tools are completely improvised. This can't be used for creating anything new. This level of tools are only usable for repairing items and even then at a -3 to the DC Check. Improvised tools cannot be well crafted.
--Level 1 Travelling rig. More intended for repairs and simple farming level creation. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 15. Gives no bonuses when making the DC Check.
--Level 2 Village Blacksmith. Suitable for a wide array of repairs and creation. It's good, but there are better. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 20. +2 when making the DC Check.
--Level 3 Royal Armourer. This smithery is kitted out and can be used to create almost anything. This level of smithing can be found in the bigger cities... but there are also many hermit blacksmiths who've sought the solace of the wild to better focus on their craft. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 30. +6 when making the DC Check.
Yes it is possible to have an exceptionally well crafted Royal Armourer level setup. This enables you to attempt legendary level creations (i.e. greater than a DC 30). No further bonuses are provided for this.

Crafting, as per the rules, normally takes a crap ton of time to accomplish. There are shortcuts that can hasten the 5gp/per day creation rule. They are as follows:
a. Use of magic in the process can halve the time required. This can be innate magic or low level magic. The level of spell isn't what determines the level of magic, it is instead the character levels (in magic) that determine it's efficacy. If the player has greater than 10 levels, than this lowers to a third of the time.
b. The quality of materials being used for the job can also hasten the creation process. The more refined the ore (see adamantium, etc.) the quicker you're able to work. Quality materials can cut 5 days off of creation. The finest most pure materials can cut 10 days off of creation.
c. The player may be willing to hasten the crafting process, cutting corners and trusting to his/her skill as a blacksmith. For each day of work doing this, it counts as two days work... but adds a -1 to the final DC Check. A player can conversely take their time in crafting. For each day spent lovingly crafting an object, it counts as half of a creation day but adds a +1 to the final DC Check.

Further pluses/minuses to the DC Check are as followed:
--A full work day is 8 hours. To work a half a day gives a -1 to the DC check
--If the blacksmith is familiar with his tools he gets a +1.
--If familiar with the metals being used, the player adds a +5 to his DC check. If unfamiliar with the metals a -5 to the final DC Check. Familiarity is bred through use. To be familiar with a metal you have to have successfully crafted 5 items with the metal.
--Familiarity with the weapons or armour being crafted. This can occur through use of the items or experience crafting past items. Familiarity imparts a +1. Lack of familiarity imparts a -1 to the DC Check.
--A well thought out design can go a LONG way to working out the kinks of a creation. If the player creates a detailed diagram of what they're making and how it is intended to work, then give them a +5 to the final DC Check.


When crafting, the final DC check determines all. The player can take an extra DC check once a week during the item creation. Failure means the project gets a -1 to the ultimate DC Check. Success gives the player a +1 to their ultimate DC Check. Stalling while taking checks to improve your + to your DC Check is counterproductive as this + can go no higher than a +5. Stop dithering and finish making that axe!

On the final DC Check, a roll of a natural 20 or any score above a 30 guarantees master crafting of the object. It gets a non magical +1. It also receives a minor magical effect. If the player expends magical energy prior to the DC roll in an attempt to make it a magical item (these rules to be fleshed out later) AND succeeds as above, the DM can make the object a full fledged magical item. Note that only master crafted items can be made into magical items. So if a player expends the requisite magic to make magical plate armour but fails to get a score required to make it master crafted, then the magic is wasted and he is left with standard, unmagical plate armour.

On a roll of a 1 or a 2, the object appears to have been crafted perfectly. The smith is elated at his success. It is left to the DM to decide if the object has been cursed or will shatter horrifically at the most inopportune of moments.

Special
A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.

Item Rarity Check DC
Common DC 15
Uncommon DC 20
Rare DC 25
Very Rare DC 30
Legendary DC 35

[Herobizkit]

I'm going to chime in and say that your rules are well-crafted (hue) but needlessly complicated (compared to 5e's skills/rule-lite design) but works as intended.

Adding a non-magical +1 is nice for a super-high roll, but it won't happen often enough to matter. A PC would need a Royal armory, 20 Int, a Guidance spell, the Help action and a Bardic Inspiration just to have a chance at a 35... which means that NPCs will never be able to achieve such greatness. :)

My math is very rough, but I think I'm close.

[Corsair14]

Having done armorsmithing and jewelrywork both stone and metalwork all with medieval techniques, I think that 5th ed would make it very complicated to make these skill realistic. I found a cheap file on DMs Guild on blacksmithing that I plan on using in my campaign, much simpler than anything I could come up with myself.

Big difference in quality of materials and what you are talking about. Having worked with standard steel, aluminum, spring steel, stainless steel, and a little with titanium, I can tell you the quality of the material will absolutely not reduce time. Aluminum is the lowest quality of metal useful for armor in the full contact combat I do and even then its only usable for pieces that wont take direct hits as it will dent very easily. Lames on shoulders, maybe splints on greaves(and that's mostly for aesthetics). But its super quick to work and cheap to come by. Go up to stainless(skipping regular steel which also dents with a good hit and rusts very easily) its much better quality and is the standard in armor work. Requires much heavier cutters and takes far longer to work. Spring and titanium, far longer. All of this is with already flattened sheets of metal. Note in medieval times there were actually specialist metal working shops that only made sheets of metal from ore from the processors and sold it to armorers and other smiths so they didn't have to waste time, space and money on the specialized equipment to do it. The higher quality metal you work the longer it takes to work it, not shorter time. I can only imagine what even harder fantasy metals like mithril, adamantium, and unobtainium require to work but I imagine its right up there with titanium.

Next question is how long your PCs are going to be hanging out in a town where they can find a blacksmith willing to let them borrow his heavy specialized equipment. Provided you have access, you are talking a lot of time it takes to make armor and weapons. Does the town even have a wireworker so you can get wire to make chainmail? Where are they getting the refined material? It takes a few months to put out a fine suit of plate and pray the guy you measured it for doesn't change size. One could knock out a knife in an afternoon easy. A good quality sword make take a day or more, just a standard sword a day. Then you would hand it off to an apprentice to polish and sharpen and that would take him a day or two. Contrary to Conan movies, you would never pour molten steel into a mold to make a sword.

[Jarlhen]

The problem is that D&D isn't designed for skill usage. Specially not crafting. If I were you I'd make a list of how long it takes to make different things. Then modify the DC based on quality the blacksmith wants and the materials available. Roll a blacksmithing check every day it takes to make something against said DC. Quality is, from a RAW point of view, meaningless other than value. Most materials that are mentioned do only something minor, so either you live with that or you make up new effects for different materials. But the more complicated you make something the less it fits into D&D and the less it works with the system. There's no need whatsoever to have other modifiers than quality and material. Not with this system.

A proper system would have much wider skill levels. It would allow one to get better at chosen skills. It would have a wide number of specializations in the spirit of feats or similar. D&D doesn't really work with any of that so keep it super simple.

I mean if you think about it any master smkith has to be a rogue or a bard. They have to be super high level and they have to have max ability score. The biggest difference is probably if they weak magical items which give them advantage in their craft or such. So if your characters encounter a master smith NPC it has to be around level 11+ rogue or bard with 20 str and probably a couple of magical items. It's weird.

[Beleriphon]

As a note, quality of material should probably mean preformed billets and sheets, rather than having to harvest your steel for plows and shovels, even if one could make a quality blade from a plow blade the smith is going to have to form it into a usable billet first, then work on actually making a blade. Same deal with armour pieces. Never mind that nearly any steel can be hardened, but cheap low carbon steel wont work anywhere near as well and is going to take way more effort to get right. A quality high carbon, or if you can manage it a vanadium steel, will harden easily and hold a really good edge (especially vanadium steel, there's a reason saw blades meant to cut concrete are made of the stuff).

[Sigreid]

The problem is that D&D isn't designed for skill usage. Specially not crafting. If I were you I'd make a list of how long it takes to make different things. Then modify the DC based on quality the blacksmith wants and the materials available. Roll a blacksmithing check every day it takes to make something against said DC. Quality is, from a RAW point of view, meaningless other than value. Most materials that are mentioned do only something minor, so either you live with that or you make up new effects for different materials. But the more complicated you make something the less it fits into D&D and the less it works with the system. There's no need whatsoever to have other modifiers than quality and material. Not with this system.

A proper system would have much wider skill levels. It would allow one to get better at chosen skills. It would have a wide number of specializations in the spirit of feats or similar. D&D doesn't really work with any of that so keep it super simple.

I mean if you think about it any master smkith has to be a rogue or a bard. They have to be super high level and they have to have max ability score. The biggest difference is probably if they weak magical items which give them advantage in their craft or such. So if your characters encounter a master smith NPC it has to be around level 11+ rogue or bard with 20 str and probably a couple of magical items. It's weird.

I would suggest modifying your suggestion by saying that a craft person can make average or standard quality gear like in the PHB equipment list reliably that no roll is required. Then set DCs for creating either superior quality, or shortening the time to create. So an exceptionally skilled armor smith, as an example, my be able to create full plate in 3/4 or even 1/2 the time, thus increasing his profit. Alternately, he might be able to make it weigh less (or at least encumber less) but have the same defensive value.

[GorogIrongut]

I would suggest modifying your suggestion by saying that a craft person can make average or standard quality gear like in the PHB equipment list reliably that no roll is required. Then set DCs for creating either superior quality, or shortening the time to create. So an exceptionally skilled armor smith, as an example, my be able to create full plate in 3/4 or even 1/2 the time, thus increasing his profit. Alternately, he might be able to make it weigh less (or at least encumber less) but have the same defensive value.

I was actually thinking of offering a mix of the two rules sets provided here (i.e. my more complicated set that could be used to craft masterworks or magical items and pwykersotz's Fast, Cheap and Dirty version). The player has to decide which route they're going to use and would need to have a chat with me about they why if they wanted to swap to the other rule set... and more specifically what they were doing to get their character to change their crafting 'mindset' to enable it.


And Belleriphon, that was actually what I meant about higher quality materials. I should have perhaps called it more processed materials... but then that didn't encompass the differences that can be found in steels and irons.

For the poster who said that a bard or a rogue would be required to maximize your crafting, I deliberately have tweaked the Feat Skilled in all of my games so that it reads as follows:

Skilled
You gain proficiency in any combination of four skills or tools of your choice. You may also choose to obtain expertise, as listed on the bard or rogue classes in two skills or tools of your choice. This second part can only be done at level 4 or later.

[GorogIrongut]

Having done armorsmithing and jewelrywork both stone and metalwork all with medieval techniques, I think that 5th ed would make it very complicated to make these skill realistic.

Big difference in quality of materials and what you are talking about. Having worked with standard steel, aluminum, spring steel, stainless steel, and a little with titanium, I can tell you the quality of the material will absolutely not reduce time. Aluminum is the lowest quality of metal useful for armor in the full contact combat I do and even then its only usable for pieces that wont take direct hits as it will dent very easily. Lames on shoulders, maybe splints on greaves(and that's mostly for aesthetics). But its super quick to work and cheap to come by. Go up to stainless(skipping regular steel which also dents with a good hit and rusts very easily) its much better quality and is the standard in armor work. Requires much heavier cutters and takes far longer to work. Spring and titanium, far longer. All of this is with already flattened sheets of metal. Note in medieval times there were actually specialist metal working shops that only made sheets of metal from ore from the processors and sold it to armorers and other smiths so they didn't have to waste time, space and money on the specialized equipment to do it. The higher quality metal you work the longer it takes to work it, not shorter time. I can only imagine what even harder fantasy metals like mithril, adamantium, and unobtainium require to work but I imagine its right up there with titanium.

Glad to meet someone who shares my interests. My two current projects are a Titanium (Grade 5) chainmail shirt and a tempered High Carbon Steel Scalemail Hauberk. The titanium you can't even really work on without an argon welder to weld the rings together, otherwise oxygen bonds with it and it becomes a crumbly mess. Without the welding, you're just left with a butted chainmail shirt. The high carbon steel also takes an insane amount of time even if it is a little more forgiving. It's often easier just to buy your rings and scales pre made. So yes, I completely agree with everything that you said here. My intention as was highlighted later on, was to say that the materials were of a higher quality because they'd already been worked on and formed into wire, sheets, bars and were of an unquestionable purity.

[pwykersotz]

I was actually thinking of offering a mix of the two rules sets provided here (i.e. my more complicated set that could be used to craft masterworks or magical items and pwykersotz's Fast, Cheap and Dirty version). The player has to decide which route they're going to use and would need to have a chat with me about they why if they wanted to swap to the other rule set... and more specifically what they were doing to get their character to change their crafting 'mindset' to enable it.

Since you like the core of the method but think it doesn't go far enough, I'll share the more complete form with you. It would be easy enough to convert to a d20 if desired, of course. Again, these rules were a rough draft, not a finished system, so there might be some errors to be ironed out. It hasn't ever seen a playtest, so there might be some practical troubles too.

Also, I was planning on reviewing and commenting on your updated version, but I haven't had the time yet (it's faster to post a doc I already have). But I plan on it. :smallsmile:

To craft an item, you must have possession of the necessary materials and tools. If you have these, make a craft roll by rolling 2d6 and adding your proficiency bonus. On a 13+ you have succeeded and choose one from the list of [Quickly, Cheaply, Well]. Those desiring a second list option may choose one by sacrificing the third. On a 10-12, you succeed with no greater effect, and may choose one from the list by sacrificing the other two. On a 9 or less, you make a flawed item.


Quickly
An item that was produced quickly is made in half the expected time with no drawback in quality. If this is sacrificed, it instead doubles the expected creation time. If the time cannot be provided, creation fails.


Cheaply
An item produced cheaply cost only half as much as expected to create with no drawback in quality. If this is sacrificed, it instead doubles the expected cost. If the cost cannot be met, creation fails.


Well
An item produced well is of high quality and has advantage against being broken, or for consumables either has unexpected potency or is extremely delicious. If this is sacrificed, the item is flawed.


Flawed
An item that is flawed is prone to breaking apart, having reduced potency, or tasting terrible. In all cases, it could lead to injury. On the use of a flawed item, roll another craft check with the modifier of the crafter. On a success, the item functions at reduced capacity, potency, or enjoyment. On a partial success, the item fails to function, is inert, or is inedible. On a failure, the item causes injury in an appropriate way.


Items come in five qualities. [Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Legendary]. The ability to craft higher qualities is both a mark of skill of the crafter and a mark of the materials used. When choosing which quality to attempt, you must have materials of a value necessary to craft that item. These values are notated on the different toolkit tables below.


Optional Rule: Alternate Leveling


If there is a desire for skill in these crafts to grow in power with use as opposed to with level, then track seperate exp for each skill. The exp it takes to level is the current level plus 5, beginning at 5 for level 0 and going up to 11 to reach level 6. Depending on how often the DM calls for checks, the static value of 5 can be shifted to fit the campaign.


You gain 1 exp when you fail a check by rolling a 9-, or when you spend the time and money to research as listed under the individual crafts and follow it up by making an item in that context (such as by cooking a new region’s food or smithing a new type of metal). This system is designed for compatibility with a crafting adventurer. As such, the crafter can only count the first roll of downtime crafting for possible exp.


Blacksmithing


The forge is the way of the modern world. It is about power, about resilience, and about shaping the strongest elements into tools for the new age. It requires great courage, strength, and dedication to be a truly excellents smith, and there are those who have spent their entire lives in pursuit of that very goal.


A smith must have great knowledge of the elements of the earth. He must know the properties of the metals he works, and he must know how they interact and how to remove impurities. He must know how to heat and cool the metals without causing them to become brittle or soft, and he must have the keen eye to watch for minute changes so that when the unexpected does happen that he can adjust.


A smith’s most obvious tools are his forge, his anvil, and his hammer, but there are many more. In fact, a traveling blacksmith cannot do much other than make small repairs on the road, as a campfire will not get hot enough to allow the metal to be molded. Instead, they must find a smithy in whatever town or other place they are in.


Other than his requisite tools, a blacksmith requires metal to shape into the final product. He must choose wisely, for the right tool must be made from the right material to function properly. But more, he must know how to work that particular metal to get the most out of it. Also, while items of metal exist that were imbued with magic after the fact, they are extremely rare. Metal must be forged in such a way as to be magical.


Brass, bronze, copper, iron and steel are the primary metals of a blacksmith, but many metals with special properties exist in the world. Mithril and Adamantite are among the most famous, though metals like Black Iron, Orichalcum, and Greensteel, and Solarite also exist. Special metals require research and practice to be able to forge. You must spend at least 1 week and 1000gp to research and practice a new type of forging, as well as having a supply of the metal onhand enough to make at least a medium item. Once complete, you are capable of making checks with that metal as normal.


A non-magical item follows the basic crafting rules at the beginning of this document. The cost to create it is half that of the sale price in the PHB. Unique items will have sale prices as decided by the DM. The time is determined by a combination of size and complexity. If an item must be properly fitted to someone or something, increase its effective size by one step for determining crafting time.


Lastly, when trying to imbue an item with any sort of power, the smith must have a special material that conducts magic. This might be a blessed holy symbol, the heart of an elemental, or even having it forged in dragon fire. Such materials come with cost. Either gifts and tributes for the creature helping, or just stabilizing reagents that are necessary to bind the item.


Mundane Crafting


Size
Time
Example


Tiny
1 long rest
Dagger


Small
1 long rest
Sword


Medium
1 week
Breastplate


Large+
1 fortnight
Full Plate



Magical Crafting


Rarity
Material Cost
Attunement Duration
Time


Common
75gp
1 week
1 week


Uncommon
300gp
1 month
1 week


Rare
4000gp
3 months
1 fortnight


Very rare
20000gp
6 months
1 fortnight


Legendary
100,000
1 year
1 fortnight



If you have the requisite components and time, your craft check is all that is needed to make the magic weapon, armor, or other magical metal item. Some particular items may require a recipe at the DM’s discretion though. As a general rule, only items in the DMG may be created.


Once the magical item is made, it must be maintained. This is done through a special process of attunement and use. You can only have one such item attuned at a time. It takes a full year of consecutive attunement and use for an item’s magic to become permanent. If this is interrupted for more than a day, the power begins to fade quickly and the process must be restarted within a month or the magic will either be diminished or lost forever.

[Kane0]

Seems pretty good, I'd probably simplify it to match the general 5e method.

Improvised/Travel kit: Up to DC 10 items
Regular Smithy: Up to DC 20 items
Magnificent Forge: Up to DC 30 items

You progress at a rate of 1gp/hour (item's finished worth)
Rushing give you 2gp/hour but adds +1 to the DC for every 8 hours rushed
Taking your time gives you 5sp/hour but gives -1 to the DC for every 8 hours slowed
The use of certain magics (Guidance, Unseen Servant, Heat Metal, fabricate, etc) allows you to rush at no penalty
If you receive help from another proficient creature for at least half of the time, or if you are using high quality materials, you gain advantage on the final check

At the end of creation you make the check and on a success the item is crafted with no complications. A failure means the item suffers a flaw or imperfection (decided by the DM). A natural 20 may provide special bonuses or even magical enchantments (decided by the DM).

[Mith]

Would we want a natural 20 to determine if an item gets magical abilities, or should it be based on what one beats a check by, with the degree of success at 5 above the DC gives a percentile roll to determine a magical effect. A certain degree of failure can create a cursed item.

[Corsair14]

You wont be making anything magical without a wizard standing there by the smith doing the enchanting. The most a non-magic using smith can make is masterwork(which you will have to house rule the effects since 5e is too short sighted to include it so far). If they didn't start out to make a masterwork weapon(the most an expert crafter can ever expect to make) spend the money on high quality materials(at least 300gp more than the normal weapon) and take the time then you cannot make a masterwork weapon even if you roll a 20. You can roll a 20 making a sword out of low quality pig iron, but in the end all it will be is a nice looking pig iron sword and likely will break the first time or two it is used.

For magical weapons or armor you are talking thousands of gp in materials and hiring a wizard high enough level to enchant it as it is made.

[Mith]

Fair enough.

[pwykersotz]

Thank you guys, I now realize how subjective something like this is. I'm also trying to take a hobby of mine and mold it in to the 5E rules system without it being too detailed or too tedious. So your feedback helps me from making this too technical.

Pwykersotz, I appreciate your Cheap, Fast and Dirty approach. It's something I would use because it's simple. Unfortunately my circumstances need a little more.

-The use of magic to cut the time heavily favors casters. It hamstrings the non-caster item creation, which has always been distasteful to me. I want that legendary smith to be legendary because he has tremendous skill, not because he's a sorcerer. Your mileage may vary, of course. Right now I'm actually dancing between various Youtube videos trying to improve my skills at stoking the fire in a forge. It's not as easy as it looks and there's a fair amount of time spent doing it. That's where the magic idea comes in. Initially the idea of using Heat Metal in the place of the forge seems epic and would save a lot of time. But as I reasoned, I felt that was too limiting what about the magic users who don't have access to that specific spell? Returning to the monk example that I'm dealing with... they use ki, which is one of the most basic building blocks of magic. Why couldn't they sacrifice ki (or in the case of other casters) spell levels to create a magical 'fire' within which to heat/change the structure of the metal to make it workable on an anvil? It would require a cost of their resources. You'll note that the mechanics only hasten the process of creation. There's no other implied benefit. Though I personally think it would be cool to have a shadow monk use their ki to impart unique colouration and shadow-like effects on whatever they create. That would however be left up to the DM and isn't within the scope of the rules that I'm creating.
-Quality of materials is a great metric, but I'm not sure I like it for reducing time. Tools or smithy quality, that I can see. But quality materials should lead to a more quality product instead of faster creation. This is a hold out for myself and smithing. It's a LOT faster and easier to smith an item if you're working from stock that you've already worked. In the olden days that one of the things a blacksmith's apprentice used to do... the menial jobs of turning the ore into a more workable material so that the blacksmith didn't have to do it themselves and was able to work a lot faster.
-Finally, I don't like the divide between player and character knowledge for the critical failure. I feel like that could be ironed out a bit. It could be seen to have a flaw, for example, but you don't know when it will fail. So it might be worth a risk to use. I agree with you on this one. I need to find a mechanic that helps the flaw work without the player actually knowing how badly they did.

I've been working on it a little more. Please tell me if this setup looks like too much of a hassle. I keep edging closer towards the rules for making magic items. This is because my player wants to be the kind of monk who can impart his ki through his craft to make something akin to the Green Destiny alla Crouching Tiger...

. Blacksmithing
There are roughly 3 tiers of blacksmithing tools. Those tools may be exceptionally well crafted for their given level and this will bring them up one level of efficacy.
--Level 0 Your tools are completely improvised. This can't be used for creating anything new. This level of tools are only usable for repairing items and even then at a -3 to the DC Check. Improvised tools cannot be well crafted.
--Level 1 Travelling rig. More intended for repairs and simple farming level creation. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 15. Gives no bonuses when making the DC Check.
--Level 2 Village Blacksmith. Suitable for a wide array of repairs and creation. It's good, but there are better. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 20. +2 when making the DC Check.
--Level 3 Royal Armourer. This smithery is kitted out and can be used to create almost anything. This level of smithing can be found in the bigger cities... but there are also many hermit blacksmiths who've sought the solace of the wild to better focus on their craft. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 30. +6 when making the DC Check.
Yes it is possible to have an exceptionally well crafted Royal Armourer level setup. This enables you to attempt legendary level creations (i.e. greater than a DC 30). No further bonuses are provided for this.

Crafting, as per the rules, normally takes a crap ton of time to accomplish. There are shortcuts that can hasten the 5gp/per day creation rule. They are as follows:
a. Use of magic in the process can halve the time required. This can be innate magic or low level magic. The level of spell isn't what determines the level of magic, it is instead the character levels (in magic) that determine it's efficacy. If the player has greater than 10 levels, than this lowers to a third of the time.
b. The quality of materials being used for the job can also hasten the creation process. The more refined the ore (see adamantium, etc.) the quicker you're able to work. Quality materials can cut 5 days off of creation. The finest most pure materials can cut 10 days off of creation.
c. The player may be willing to hasten the crafting process, cutting corners and trusting to his/her skill as a blacksmith. For each day of work doing this, it counts as two days work... but adds a -1 to the final DC Check. A player can conversely take their time in crafting. For each day spent lovingly crafting an object, it counts as half of a creation day but adds a +1 to the final DC Check.

Further pluses/minuses to the DC Check are as followed:
--A full work day is 8 hours. To work a half a day gives a -1 to the DC check
--If the blacksmith is familiar with his tools he gets a +1.
--If familiar with the metals being used, the player adds a +5 to his DC check. If unfamiliar with the metals a -5 to the final DC Check. Familiarity is bred through use. To be familiar with a metal you have to have successfully crafted 5 items with the metal.
--Familiarity with the weapons or armour being crafted. This can occur through use of the items or experience crafting past items. Familiarity imparts a +1. Lack of familiarity imparts a -1 to the DC Check.
--A well thought out design can go a LONG way to working out the kinks of a creation. If the player creates a detailed diagram of what they're making and how it is intended to work, then give them a +5 to the final DC Check.


When crafting, the final DC check determines all. The player can take an extra DC check once a week during the item creation. Failure means the project gets a -1 to the ultimate DC Check. Success gives the player a +1 to their ultimate DC Check. Stalling while taking checks to improve your + to your DC Check is counterproductive as this + can go no higher than a +5. Stop dithering and finish making that axe!

On the final DC Check, a roll of a natural 20 or any score above a 30 guarantees master crafting of the object. It gets a non magical +1. It also receives a minor magical effect. If the player expends magical energy prior to the DC roll in an attempt to make it a magical item (these rules to be fleshed out later) AND succeeds as above, the DM can make the object a full fledged magical item. Note that only master crafted items can be made into magical items. So if a player expends the requisite magic to make magical plate armour but fails to get a score required to make it master crafted, then the magic is wasted and he is left with standard, unmagical plate armour.

On a roll of a 1 or a 2, the object appears to have been crafted perfectly. The smith is elated at his success. It is left to the DM to decide if the object has been cursed or will shatter horrifically at the most inopportune of moments.

Special
A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.

Item Rarity Check DC
Common DC 15
Uncommon DC 20
Rare DC 25
Very Rare DC 30
Legendary DC 35

I haven't actually crunched the numbers, but this looks a lot more playable. My only critique at this point would be the fiddly numbers game that is being played. Keeping track of a complex situation seems like a fairly large amount of work.

As an option, you could do something more fiddly than what 5e normally does, but less so than this. You could say that if you meet the criteria for any three +'s, you have advantage on the check. Meanwhile if you meet the criteria for any three -'s, you get disadvantage. Those would stack and cancel each other as normal. Naturally this would mean a flattening of the scaling pluses for extra time and such, you could always say that "extra time" counts as a single + and involves spending an extra 10% of the original crafting time on the item or somesuch.

For a critical failure, since you like the angle of the player thinking it's fine, you might consider that you make the roll in secret instead of the player whenever they craft. Then if you roll a 1 or 2, you tell them that they succeeded! Congrats! That said, I might also add a caveat that if they spend some time stress testing or validating their work, they have a chance to find it equal to the original craft DC (again rolled secretly).

Also, I like your clarification about quality materials meaning the readiness of the ore. I think that works with that specification.

[GorogIrongut]

I'd like to thank everyone for their help. All of your comments helped in some way. As said before, I'm going to provide my players pwykerotz's Fast, Cheap & Dirty approach as an option for the easy approach to blacksmithing. If however they wish to engage in blacksmithery for the purpose of making magic items or have the ability to mastercraft items, they must use the more complicated way.

For those players of mine who want a more detailed approach, you'll find it a little farther down. I spent my time pondering what really needed to stay and if it really fit where it was. Somethings were moved and or changed. A couple things were taken out. I liked pwyk's comment about adding an Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic. I just put it somewhere different as I felt it was more appropriate to have it there.

I hope you guys find these rules a little more streamlined and a lot more sensible.

The More Complicated Way of Blacksmithing
For every day of downtime you spend crafting, you can craft one or more items with a total market value not exceeding 10 gp, and you must expend raw materials worth half the total market value. If something you want to craft has a market value greater than 10 gp, you make progress every day in 10-gp increments until you reach the market value of the item. For example, a suit of plate armor (market value 1,500 gp) takes 150 days to craft by yourself.
Multiple characters can combine their efforts toward the crafting of a single item, provided that the characters all have proficiency with the requisite tools and are working together in the same place. Each character contributes 10 gp worth of effort for every day spent helping to craft the item. For example, three characters with the requisite tool proficiency and the proper facilities can craft a suit of plate armor in 50 days, at a total cost of 750 gp.

There are roughly 3 tiers of blacksmithing tools. Those tools may be exceptionally well crafted for their given level and this will bring them up one level of efficacy.
--Level 0 Your tools are completely improvised. This can't be used for creating anything new. This level of tools are only usable for repairing items and even then at a -3 to the DC Check. Improvised tools cannot be well crafted.
--Level 1 Travelling rig. More intended for repairs and simple farming level creation. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 15. Gives no bonuses when making the DC Check.
--Level 2 Village Blacksmith. Suitable for a wide array of repairs and creation. It's good, but there are better. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 20. +2 when making the DC Check.
--Level 3 Royal Armourer. This smithery is kitted out and can be used to create almost anything. This level of smithing can be found in the bigger cities... but there are also many hermit blacksmiths who've sought the solace of the wild to better focus on their craft. Cannot create anything with a DC greater than 30. +6 when making the DC Check.
Yes it is possible to have an exceptionally well crafted Royal Armourer level setup. This enables you to attempt legendary level creations (i.e. greater than a DC 30). No further bonuses are provided for this. Your reward is the ability to attempt legendary creations.

Crafting, as per the rules, normally takes a crap ton of time to accomplish. The PHB rules are halved in this rule system. There are further shortcuts that can hasten the 10gp/per day creation rule. They are as follows:
a. Use of magic in the process can halve the time required. This can be innate magic or actual spellcasting magic. In some fashion the person is able to harness their magic in a beneficial avenue. If using a finite magic source, spells/ki/etc. should be expended to show this.
b. The quality of materials being used for the job can also hasten the creation process. The more refined the ore the quicker you're able to work. Quality materials can cut 5 days off of creation. The finest most pure and stock materials can cut 10 days off of creation.
c. The player may be willing to hasten the crafting process, cutting corners and trusting to his/her skill as a blacksmith. For each day of work doing this, it counts as two days work... but adds a -1 to the final DC Check. A player can conversely take their time in crafting. For each day spent lovingly crafting an object, it counts as half of a creation day but adds a +1 to the final DC Check.
d. A full days work is 8 hours. Fewer hours provide you a proportional fraction of work accomplished. You cannot hasten or take your time on a fractional day.

Further pluses/minuses to the DC Check are as followed:
--If the blacksmith is familiar with his tools he gets a +1.
--If familiar with the metals being used, the player adds a +5 to his DC check. If unfamiliar with the metals a -5 to the final DC Check. Familiarity is bred through use. To be familiar with a metal you have to have successfully crafted 5 items with the metal.
--Familiarity with the weapons or armour being crafted. This can occur through use of the items or experience crafting past items. Familiarity imparts a +1. Lack of familiarity imparts a -1 to the DC Check.
--A well thought out design can go a LONG way to working out the kinks of a creation. If the player creates a detailed diagram of what they're making and how it is intended to work, then give them advantage to the final DC Check. No design imparts disadvantage.

On the final DC Check, a roll of a natural 20 or any score above a 30 guarantees master crafting of the object. It gets a non magical +1. It also receives a minor magical effect.

On any successful DC Check roll where mastercrafting did not occur, the DM privately rolls a dice. On the a roll of a 1 or a 2, the object appears to have been crafted perfectly and the smith is elated at their success. There is however a flaw in the creation and it is left to the DM to decide if the object has been cursed or will shatter horrifically at the most inopportune of moments. If magic has been used in the forging process then this occurs on the roll of a 1, 2 or 3 and the likelihood of it being cursed increases.

If the DM deems it appropriate, the player may attempt to stress test their work. Identifying the flaw/curse can be found on a DC Check equal to the crafting check.

Special
A dwarf has a +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or metal, because dwarves are especially capable with stonework and metalwork.

Item Rarity Check DC
Common DC 15
Uncommon DC 20
Rare DC 25
Very Rare DC 30
Legendary DC 35

[GorogIrongut]

Just to provide a test run. Imagine a level 8 dwarven (+2) fighter who dabbles as a blacksmith. He's set up a base of operations and and has an exceptionally well made village smithery (+6 and DC Check 30). We'll take expertise out of the equation. We'll simply say he's proficient (+3).

Now, lets say that he wants cash money and figures full plate mail provided to the local baron and his troops will be the quickest route (as well as by ingratiating himself for past indiscretions).

The player draws up a set of plans for making plate mail (advantage) which as long as he doesn't change them up he can use with any set of similar plate that he makes.

He's familiar with his tools (+1), with the metal (+5) or will be after mass producing them, he's also familiar with the armour design (+1). He's already at a +17 with advantage for making the plate.

Now by himself it would take 150 days. He is however an Eldritch Knight and uses magic (75 days). He's automating the process as much as he can so he gets an apprentice to make stock material for him to use so he doesn't have to faff about himself. Throw in another apprentice to help him in the forge and we drop down to 33 days. Now, he's pretty cocky about his blacksmithing and the built in bonuses he's already got. So he double times the whole process (16 days at a -16) to bring it down to 17 days to fully create a suit of full plate. Even with the speeding up, he still has a +1 and advantage to it's creation. The refined stock would cost the price of the base materials 750 gp as well as the wages of the two apprentices over that time period. But the potential earnings are great for such a small period of time, as long as he doesn't mess up the roll.

Now... that was an extreme case. I doubt I would have double-timed it more than a couple days. Having just a +1 and advantage runs too much of a risk of failure on the check. I'd prefer to have more of chance of success.
These rules allow you to control the crafting more carefully. It hastens the process. Makes it more immediate and importantly more controllable. You choose to cut corners if you want to. You can do smithing while still being able to adventure.

[GorogIrongut]

I decided to jazz up the master crafting a bit. Instead of the boring, non-magical +1 with a possible minor magic effect, I've decided the following is more interesting.

When you are wearing Masterwork Armor and are hit with a weapon attack, the attacker must re-roll all damage dice that land on their maximum result.

When you hit an enemy with a Masterwork Weapon, you re-roll any damage dice that land on a result of 1.