Alternative use of the dodge action.

[Sir cryosin]

So instead of granting disadvantage to any attack roll if you took the dodge action instead.
1. If you take the dodge action any attacks that target you you roll a acrobatics check opposing the attack roll.
This next one my dm is going to let me try out.
2. If you take the dodge action you add your acrobatics to your ac.

Now I know this could bring on Shenanigans with expertise in acrobatics. So what can we do.

[Maxilian]

So instead of granting disadvantage to any attack roll if you took the dodge action instead.
1. If you take the dodge action any attacks that target you you roll a acrobatics check opposing the attack roll.
This next one my dm is going to let me try out.
2. If you take the dodge action you add your acrobatics to your ac.

Now I know this could bring on Shenanigans with expertise in acrobatics. So what can we do.

Isn't Adv and Dis is basically a +5 / -5 to hit (in theory), either way, i don't think is that bad, in the end, you are using your whole action to do this

[JackPhoenix]

Skill bonuses are easier to get than attack bonus... expertise, reliable talent, Guidance etc.

But it would also make Dodge worse for anyone who's not a dex-based class with acrobatic on its skill list, like casters and, well, pretty much anyone except bard, monk and rogue.

On the other hand, it would make acrobatic good for something

[PeteNutButter]

Rogue 11/Monk 9.

For 1: Spam bonus action dodge, the lowest your AC can be is 27, with an average around 30. That's before any buff spells, or magic items such as luck stone.
For 2: Assuming a 20 in dex and wisdom, that makes his AC when dodging, 37... before any magic items or buffs, etc. Dodge as a bonus action 9/times per short rest is pretty reliable too.

As has been mentioned it heavily favors dex users. I think Dodge is [another] poorly named feature in 5e, and should just be called Defense action or something. If an 8 dex fighter in full plate is taking the dodge action, I picture him crouching behind his shield more or something, not Jackie Channing around.

So if in the interest of fairness you want to let it work with athletics as well:

A barbarian 4/rogue 1/monk x can just don armor, dump wisdom (13) and spam bonus action dodge.

For 1: He dodges and rolls for his athletics with advantage while raging average about 31.

For 2: He dodges and adds his athletics to his 20 AC for 37 or 39 with shield. If you give him the passive +5 for advantage that's 43 AC. So yes, he is reckless attacking. Everything has to roll a 20 to hit him anyways.

IMO no way to make this work, without shattering bounded accuracy, or putting a whole lot of exceptions on it.

[Mellack]

It limits dodge to only a few that have both dex and acrobatics as a skill instead of it being usable by everyone. I don't think that is a good choice.
I want to agree with the last poster that dodge is not really the best name. I prefer the term All Out Defense. You are choosing to give up your action to focus on keeping yourself protected.

[Sir cryosin]

I would put the stipulation on that you can't use it if you have expertise in acrobatics or Athletics. And open it up to athletics. Instade of dodge action it's called defensive action. This way your getting a maximum of 11 ac when taking the defensive action. Why I would like to use this rule is
1. It gives the two skills acrobatics and athletics. More to do and give people reason to take them.
2. You are spending your action only defending yourself. And I feel advantage and disadvantage is just two swingy for this. A solid + to ac it better and makes using the dodge action aka defensive more practical.



And plz dice are always swingy. I don't want the statistics or advantage and disadvantage. Because at the table it's not a white room in the dice will fall where the dice fall. I have seen many two 1's or two 20's. Three sessions ago I was poison and had disadvantage all night. We kepted count on my 20's I rolled which was 5 and every time that 20 was accompanied by a 1. So I said forget it I'm just going to heal and dodge. I got hit everytime I can't remember when I have ever tooken the dodge action and not get hit. So with this rule change I'll like to take out the swingy part of taking a Dodge action.

[Mellack]

It would make the dodge action too effective. For classes that can do it as a bonus action, it becomes the automatic choice. It also opens up some very strong combos by making you virtually unhittable. Spiritual guardians then dodge as you stand next to the bad guys. Or control your conjured animals. Dodge is not supposed to make you impossible to hit, and this could easily do just that.

[MeeposFire]

Also note that these changes would make it stack with disadvantage if you can get it making you much more difficult to hit.

[Occasional Sage]

A root question: why do you feel the need to change Dodge? What about it isn't working at your table? It's hard to judge a fix without knowing what's broken.


Isn't Adv and Dis is basically a +5 / -5 to hit (in theory), either way, i don't think is that bad, in the end, you are using your whole action to do this

In the center of the probability curve, yes. As your odds get more extreme, the value of Advantage or Disadvantage decreases.

[Malifice]

On a related note, I really wish the Monks ki dodge was a reaction instead of a bonus action.

[Sir cryosin]

I want to make dodge a viable option in combat. And to have it not be swingy.


How about when taking the dodge action you an subtract your agility score to the attack roll.

[Naanomi]

I like the current system, but if changing to a static bonus use proficiency bonus instead of a skill... keeps expertise/guidance/etc out of the math and keeps it equal across classes

[PeteNutButter]

Disadvantage is the best mechanic we have to reduce swinginess. It forces opponents to hit your AC twice to land a hit. That is effectively increasing the sample size pushing towards average. If you are finding yourself still getting hit then you either have crap AC or crap luck. Some foes just have too high of hit chance to make it work for low ACs.

Adding any flat number to your AC in a system based on bounded accuracy is a bad idea.

Adding a skill to AC but then saying you can't use expertise is just a cruel trick. That's like telling the rogue he can't use his expertise in perception to perceive dragons, because dragons are cool.

If you want to increase the value of a skill (Which I think is already balanced. Athletics and acrobatics already have probably the most direct combat effects via grapple shove etc) then you should balance it around people who want to be really good at it via expertise. Buffing a skill but then stopping people from optimizing it with an odd and unheard of exception just reeks of bad balance. Expertise as a class ability operates with the expectation that there are no "exceptions."

If you want to increase the effectiveness of just acrobatics, perhaps introduce a feat that allows acrobatics to be used on grapple and shove aggressively like athletics, among some other side benefits.