How to deal with a player betrayal? (CoS)

[Jamgretter]

Curse of Strahd Spoilers ahead! Zach, Nick, Elias, and Jonathan stay away!




I'm currently DMing CoS for a group of friends. Our party is an increadbly devout Dwarfish Devotion Paladin who will smash any undead in sight, a Halfling Arcane Trickster with a pet rat and a love of electrum, A Drow Light Cleric (long story), and a Fiendish Tiefling Warlock who is trying to gain power to fight his pact maker. A couple of sessions ago, I made Strahd make a deal with the Warlock that if he killed and/or made the Paladin fall, he would gain power. I've never run inter-part conflict before, and I'm worried about it going badly. Hopefully the Warlock will tell the Paladin and trick Strahd, but I really doubt it. How can I make sure that my entire party doesn't die in an infight? How could I reveal that Strahd doesn't usually keep his promises? How can I make sure everyone enjoys it instead of hating each other? Thanks in advance!

[PeteNutButter]

Depending on the maturity of your players a well built up party infight can be a lot of fun. If your players take things personally I'd probably chop it off fast.

Alternatively you can trick the paladin into a classic no win scenario forcing him to fall, and make him an oath breaker. Be sure your warlock is in on it so everyone wins... kind of.

Or just let it play out. If it ends in combat, the warlock will probably die, as I assume the party will back the paladin. Maybe the player will learn something about going against his teammates. Maybe it'll add to the horror of the game as even a member of the party can be turned by strahd.

Edit: Remember if the warlock tries to kill the paladin in his sleep, he only gets advantage and autocrit. There is no insta-death threat slit. Coming from a non-blade lock it'll probably just piss the paladin off. He'll wake up screaming something about smiting the fiend. I'd even let the paladin have his +1d8 to smite when hitting a tiefling following a fiend patron. I mean it's practically a fiend... lol

[Aembrosia]

Nick, your warlock, was on here earlier. Given the setting he should probably almost succeed and then get his head chopped off. Then reroll to something less gullible.

Its for a good ol' mexican standoff.

[tieren]

You could just have the party come across some miserable NPC talking to himself about Strahd's broken promises and the friends he betrayed to end up this miserable wretch.

[Ruslan]

Curse of Strahd Spoilers ahead! Zach, Nick, Elias, and Jonathan stay away!




I'm currently DMing CoS for a group of friends. Our party is an increadbly devout Dwarfish Devotion Paladin who will smash any undead in sight, a Halfling Arcane Trickster with a pet rat and a love of electrum, A Drow Light Cleric (long story), and a Fiendish Tiefling Warlock who is trying to gain power to fight his pact maker. A couple of sessions ago, I made Strahd make a deal with the Warlock that if he killed and/or made the Paladin fall, he would gain power. I've never run inter-part conflict before, and I'm worried about it going badly. Hopefully the Warlock will tell the Paladin and trick Strahd, but I really doubt it. How can I make sure that my entire party doesn't die in an infight? How could I reveal that Strahd doesn't usually keep his promises? How can I make sure everyone enjoys it instead of hating each other? Thanks in advance!Have them meet with an NPC, or a ghost, that have been tricked by Strahd. Or uncover a journal of someone who was tricked by Strahd.

[BillyBobShorton]

IMO, you'll ruin the campaign. Even if people think they're mature enough to handle the RP/Storyline aspect of it, it will end with one player winning and another player losing.

Let's face reality here, we play D&D and are into enough to be online discussing it on message boards. We're not exactly shining beacons of people who have fully released their inner child. That aspect does and WILL likely bleed over.


Warlock succeeds, Paladin player is gonna be butthurt that his character got killed, wondering if the DM somehow plotted against him or played him into an unwinnable situation. Not to mention how he'll feel jaded or whatever at the Paladin player.

Vice-versa. Paladin wins, Warlock gets screwed. He will sercretly or outwardly resent the DM & the warlock player.

Ever read the Angry GM? Do it. Read his stuff about secrets within the party. It never ends well. It ruins the team concept. It distracts from the main campaign.

To me, the DM is there to guide players through an adventure, not try to make his players struggle with group conflict.

It's not a movie where emotional baggage and complex sub-plots drive things along. It's a game. You and some friends against everything else. Keep it simple, don't have secrets, don't pit characters against one another, don't force them to be playing double agent. There's more than enough problem solving issues and group disagreement without having to make players secret assassins to other players

Players keeping secrets will make sessions a big bucket of suck eventually. Mark my words.

Don't do it. At least and 2 other ppl will regret it. That's my take. It's a team sport, not a freakin spy movie.

[ClintACK]

Remember that D&D is a team game, and the players are your co-creators of the story.

Player vs. Player intrigue *can* be fun -- as long as there's buy in on both sides before things explode.

One way to do this would be to talk to both players OOC and make sure they're on board.

Another way would be to have another deal made with the Paladin to betray the Warlock somehow. (Maybe a messenger from his divine patron telling him that the Warlock has made a dark bargain (heck, isn't that how he became a Warlock in the first place?) and urging the Paladin to persuade the Warlock to break the dark bargain and turn back to the light. Of course, the divine patron means getting the Warlock to break his bargain with Strahd, but the Paladin might easily misunderstand...)

If both players have bought in to the coming conflict between their characters, you're golden. Let the hijinks begin.

[Arial Black]

There are places where people have been tricked by a disguised Strahd; showcase them and emphasise the idea that 'if only I hadn't listened to Strahd then all this badness wouldn't have happened!'

He even made an angel fall! This is a clue!

[Jamgretter]

Thank you so much for the help and advice! I think I know how I'll now do this moving foward. I really hope my friends enjoy the campaign. Once again, thanks and I hope you have a great day!

[Sigreid]

I think you need to let it play out. Dark Temptations is one of the themes and you shouldn't set up this kind of situation (and you did) unless you're willing to let it run out.

That being said once the warlock is dead, because if the party doesn't kill him Strahd certainly will, look at the player as he makes his new character, shake your head and say "At what point exactly did you decide that the man so evil reality literally created his own personal hell for him was a swell guy that you should side with?"

[Sabeta]

Semi related story time.

My last character died saving the lives of a party of murder hobos because MurderSorc with a gambling addicted decided to take his chances taking a short rest in the middle of enemy territory. Now, my guy was a bit of a murder hobo too. He got the PCs to pretend to join a cult for information, and killed an NPC who we had confirmed as evil, but didn't tell the town.

Introducing the Paladin, paragon of good things. Wields a quarterstaff and shield and never rolls lethal damage against humanoids. Also took three levels in Warlock for Charisma Shillelagh so I could be SAD on Charisma. The goal, was to get my players to mend their murder hobo ways.

But I decide to have just a bit of fun. I tell the DM that I'm investigating the murder of that NPC because the town couldn't figure it out. Using an invisible owl familiar I easily stalk the PCs, follow them to the cult, and confirm their crimes. Then I approach them (with new cult bodyguards) and ask them to explain themselves.

"Yeah we killed her. She was a pain. Were with this evil cult too."
"...well in that case you're under arrest."

Initiative gets rolled, I fail a Wisdom Save against Ray of Confusion which prevents me from doing much of anything, and get downed fairly quickly.

MurderSorc: "I Coup de Grace this dumb *****"

Needless to say my next character will probably kill the MurderSorc.

Moral of the story: don't allow PvP outside of friendly competition.

[PeteNutButter]

Semi related story time.

My last character died saving the lives of a party of murder hobos because MurderSorc with a gambling addicted decided to take his chances taking a short rest in the middle of enemy territory. Now, my guy was a bit of a murder hobo too. He got the PCs to pretend to join a cult for information, and killed an NPC who we had confirmed as evil, but didn't tell the town.

Introducing the Paladin, paragon of good things. Wields a quarterstaff and shield and never rolls lethal damage against humanoids. Also took three levels in Warlock for Charisma Shillelagh so I could be SAD on Charisma. The goal, was to get my players to mend their murder hobo ways.

But I decide to have just a bit of fun. I tell the DM that I'm investigating the murder of that NPC because the town couldn't figure it out. Using an invisible owl familiar I easily stalk the PCs, follow them to the cult, and confirm their crimes. Then I approach them (with new cult bodyguards) and ask them to explain themselves.

"Yeah we killed her. She was a pain. Were with this evil cult too."
"...well in that case you're under arrest."

Initiative gets rolled, I fail a Wisdom Save against Ray of Confusion which prevents me from doing much of anything, and get downed fairly quickly.

MurderSorc: "I Coup de Grace this dumb *****"

Needless to say my next character will probably kill the MurderSorc.

Moral of the story: don't allow PvP outside of friendly competition.

This is why I pointed out Coup de Grace is specifically not in 5e. The most a foe can do is give you two failed death saves. But just randomly murdering another PC for little reason... sounds more like a problem with the player than anything else. Perhaps the DM needs to reestablish the "always a bigger fish" aspect of D&D. When players think they can get away with anything, the campaign deteriorates.

[xanderh]

Semi related story time.

My last character died saving the lives of a party of murder hobos because MurderSorc with a gambling addicted decided to take his chances taking a short rest in the middle of enemy territory. Now, my guy was a bit of a murder hobo too. He got the PCs to pretend to join a cult for information, and killed an NPC who we had confirmed as evil, but didn't tell the town.

Introducing the Paladin, paragon of good things. Wields a quarterstaff and shield and never rolls lethal damage against humanoids. Also took three levels in Warlock for Charisma Shillelagh so I could be SAD on Charisma. The goal, was to get my players to mend their murder hobo ways.

But I decide to have just a bit of fun. I tell the DM that I'm investigating the murder of that NPC because the town couldn't figure it out. Using an invisible owl familiar I easily stalk the PCs, follow them to the cult, and confirm their crimes. Then I approach them (with new cult bodyguards) and ask them to explain themselves.

"Yeah we killed her. She was a pain. Were with this evil cult too."
"...well in that case you're under arrest."

Initiative gets rolled, I fail a Wisdom Save against Ray of Confusion which prevents me from doing much of anything, and get downed fairly quickly.

MurderSorc: "I Coup de Grace this dumb *****"

Needless to say my next character will probably kill the MurderSorc.

Moral of the story: don't allow PvP outside of friendly competition.

This could easily have been solved multiple times before it became a problem.
The first point at which it should have been solved was during character creation. You should always discuss your character with the DM and other players before introducing them. Make sure he and the party have reasons to cooperate, and in this case, to not kill each other.
If the party can't think of a reason to not just kill the new character, you should play a different character.

The second place was when the Sorcerer said she was going to kill you. That is unacceptable behaviour at my table. If that happens, I pull the player aside and explain why it's unacceptable. If they refuse to be reasonable with me and listen, I remove them from the group right then and there. The only circumstances under which it is acceptable for a PC to kill another PC is when both players have discussed it between them beforehand, and notified me that they're both okay with it. If either player is not okay with it, they find a different way to settle their differences.
RPGs are supposed to be enjoyable. These rules/guidelines avoids player animosity, and they're one of the most important rules I've introduced in my group.
One former player has been permanently banned from our groups because he was plotting to kill my character without letting me or our DM know. He had already been removed from the group, but when we found out, both I and my DM were pissed,which means he missed out on the second chance all players get in my group.