Could Hinjo be right about Belkar?

[Eogan]

Recently, Belkar has been displaying some uncharacteristic behaviour, which has garnered a fair amount of discussion. Then I just thought back to the terms of his release from prison:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html

Could Hinjo have been right after all? Is Belkar coming around? Could he even be putting points into WIS and spot?

Not that he's in any danger of switching alignment any time soon.

[Demented]

Uncharacteristic behavior? What strip are you readin'? :smalltongue:

Admittedly, we've only ever seen him track off-screen before...

[Morty]

What do you mean "uncharacteristic behavior"? He's acting like always, i.e stabbing maniac. The most recent strip may suggest he put some ranks in Survival, but that's all.

[evileeyore]

Or the recent tracking could suggest the MitD is large, walked across open loose ground and there has been nothing to disturb his tracks... giving Belkar a hefty bonus to his tracking.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Belkar was suprised that he had somehow gained evasion. I think he may have also finally gotten around to putting a few points in Survival, especially after Roy put Miko in charge of tracking.

Belkar loves killing, and being a psycho, but it might be getting through to his little proto-brain that he might need more than one trick!

:belkar: I can kill real good!
:roy: Can you do anythng else?
:belkar: Is there more?
:roy: ...
:roy: OK, how about this: You stab someone, but they fall out of a window, and run away.
:belkar: DAMNIT! I need tracking skills!
:roy: :smallsigh:

[yoshi927]

Everything Belkar does has an evil justification. He has two devils, remember? He's going to be back to himself when the Mark of Justice is gone.

[Tirian]

Hey, I'm a member of the camp that says that you have to show me that Belkar is evil. When Rich cites evidence like #171 where B. talks up murder and slavery knowing that he's going to be voted down, I am no more convinced of his evil than I would be that Steven Colbert actually is an arch-conservate. Talk, as they say, is cheap.

So I tip my hat to Rich for actually showing me the evil in #469 when Belkar said, in effect, "Screw the stealth plan, because I want action, even though I evidently still can't fight and my companion sucks at close combat. I unilaterally choose that there will be violence in this town even if I can only watch it." That's a new level of selfishness that needlessly endangered Haley, and I think that it is precisely the sort of cost that OOTS should be frequently paying for having an evil character in their party. It should be bigger than the penalty for having Elan in the party, and up to now I think it hasn't been at all.

So, no, I am pleased to no longer think that Hinjo is right about Belkar, and I hope that he is forced to face this fact and make the difficult choices about association.

[Oxymoron]

Sigh, why does some people actually WANT Belkar to be good and jolly? Would that somehow make this comic any funnier?

Think people, if Belkar turned Frodo on us, it would destroy his character completly. It`s like Elan turning evil. It wouldn`t work.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Sigh, why does some people actually WANT Belkar to be good and jolly? Would that somehow make this comic any funnier?

Think people, if Belkar turned Frodo on us, it would destroy his character completly. It`s like Elan turning evil. It wouldn`t work.

I don't think anybody wants Belkar to TURN good, they want him to be secretly good, so they don't feel guilty, deep down inside, for rooting the little lunatic along.

[Bunny]

Everything Belkar does has an evil justification. He has two devils, remember?

And a slaad. Don't forget the slaad.

Bunny

[Artega]

:belkar: Oh, man. That's just wrong. That poor, poor bastard.

Since when did Belkar start not taking pleasure in someone's suffering. :smalleek:

[Narses]

Because to him, if there's no pain, its horrible. Nobody is suffering! Roy's dead already, he can't feel pain!:smalleek:

[kukn]

I think that Belkar, albeit evil and chaotic (I'm definitely not denying that, it makes his character all the more lovable), does have his own style for physical and psychological pain, maiming, torture and killing. He isn't a twisted sicko psycho per se and thus finds the MitD's actions disgusting. Also, despite being evil, it doesn't mean he can't have an emotional attachement of sorts to the members of his party, including Roy. Especially seeing as Roy is atm dead and cannot be killed by Belkar himself, he could find pity for such treatment. Or, he could be pitying the MitD for having to resort to such tea companions...

On another note, I've checked for a new strip too many times in the past two days. I should know better. Help me :)

[BigDumbFighter]

Sigh, why does some people actually WANT Belkar to be good and jolly?

He's a hafling, he's supposed to be jolly. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)

Why isn't he jolly?

WHY ISN"T HE JOLLY??? :eek:

[Shatteredtower]

Since when did Belkar start not taking pleasure in someone's suffering. :smalleek:Belkar is perfectly comfortable with suffering that involves "manly" humiliation: beating things up (to death), setting things on fire, grossing people out, drawing graffiti all over his helpless boss, or even playing on the boss' sexual insecurities.

Belkar would never, ever host a tea party. The idea is unthinkable to him, and therefore a fate worse than (un)death even for those he dislikes (or at least likes to make uncomfortable as often as possible).

Karaoke, on the other hand, probably wouldn't have bothered him as much.

[I'm da Rogue!]

But he's got a really nice (mean) sense of humour. He's evil and we all love him. Why? He's adorable, that's why.

[SurlySeraph]

Well, I dunno. Belkar didn't want Haley to destroy the Eye of Fear and Flame and tried to stop her. Arguably that shows that he's developing a sense of loyalty and kindness. Even if he is showing said loyalty and kindness to an evil undead being that he has bullied and tormented into serving him, rather than to a fellow member of the Order of the Stick.

Ahh, who am I kidding. Belkar's still CE and always will be. I agree with Shatteredtower on his preference for manly ways of tormenting people, though.

[Demented]

He didn't try to stop her... He was just rather surprised she'd grab it out of his hands.



So I tip my hat to Rich for actually showing me the evil in #469 when Belkar said, in effect, "Screw the stealth plan, because I want action, even though I evidently still can't fight and my companion sucks at close combat. I unilaterally choose that there will be violence in this town even if I can only watch it." That's a new level of selfishness that needlessly endangered Haley, and I think that it is precisely the sort of cost that OOTS should be frequently paying for having an evil character in their party. It should be bigger than the penalty for having Elan in the party, and up to now I think it hasn't been at all.

Funnily enough, I read it differently and didn't think Belkar would care at all if Haley had just left him to his devices and ultimate doom.

[Tirian]

Funnily enough, I read it differently and didn't think Belkar would care at all if Haley had just left him to his devices and ultimate doom.

I don't know. Belkar doesn't strike me as the nihilistic type. If he were, seems to me that he'd just start attacking the tens of thousands of goblins around him, knowing that maybe Shojo was pulling his leg and maybe AC isn't a city any more and anyways it would be days before he weakened so much that he couldn't kill a 1HD monster and he'd surf into a glorious afterlife on a sea of orange blood. Since that very attractive image (or at least more attractive to him than spending the rest of his life outside cities) is one that he's not rushing toward, I presume that his proto-brain is wired to do what it takes to survive and ensuring that the MoJ isn't triggered.

[Krytha]

But he's got a really nice (mean) sense of humour. He's evil and we all love him. Why? He's adorable, that's why.

Interesting, interesting. I'm noting that a lot of girls like short jerks with hairy feet. This deserves further research.

[Yoritomo Himeko]

No, I'm afraid he's evil and always will be. But at least he's still funny.

[I'm da Rogue!]

Interesting, interesting. I'm noting that a lot of girls like short jerks with hairy feet. This deserves further research.
I think that after reading Oots, we all like them. That goes to another thread:
You know you're addicted to Order Of the Stick when you find short jerks with hairy feet amusing and cute.

And Belkar is NOT a jerk. He's a SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR

[Nathander]

So I tip my hat to Rich for actually showing me the evil in #469 when Belkar said, in effect, "Screw the stealth plan, because I want action, even though I evidently still can't fight and my companion sucks at close combat. I unilaterally choose that there will be violence in this town even if I can only watch it." That's a new level of selfishness that needlessly endangered Haley, and I think that it is precisely the sort of cost that OOTS should be frequently paying for having an evil character in their party. It should be bigger than the penalty for having Elan in the party, and up to now I think it hasn't been at all.

That's exactly the way I feel about it. I think Belkar's evil has really mainly been just something that was entertainingly different from the rest of the party that was going on then a real hindrance to them, like it should be.

On the actual question: no. Belkar has not begun, and most likely never will begin, to change his ways. I'd actually wager that the Mark of Justice placed on him has increased his selfishness to a degree. It's kind of ironic that one of the most evil characters in the strip is within the protagonists' camps.

[Tredrick]

Of course Hinjo could be right. By the end of the comic, Belkar could have completely turned around and is the new leader of the reborn Sapphire Guard, Roy picked up a few levels of Wizard and is a lich, Elan could snap and kill Haley in a jealous rage, V could have forsworn all magic and Durkon could have actually had a real chance to shine.

OK, that last one is probably a little unrealistic.

[Draz74]

I don't think anybody wants Belkar to TURN good, they want him to be secretly good, so they don't feel guilty, deep down inside, for rooting the little lunatic along.

Nope, I'm perfectly comfortable with liking an evil character. I mean, Xykon's probably my favorite character in the strip, and I don't think anybody suspects him of turning good.

But I'm still hoping for literary reasons that the (tiny) hints we're getting that Belkar is changing are actually the beginning of Hinjo being right. Because I would be so impressed by a well-done, subtle, slow, believable, 600-strip-long process by which a thoroughly shallow and evil character got redeemed.

Though I have a hard time imagining Belkar actually making it all the way to Good alignment. But I think he's well on his way (still has a ways to go) to becoming Chaotic Neutral.

[Eogan]

For the record, I had no intentions of insinuating that Belkar might become good, or even neutral. He simply may be becoming a more dependable and competent chaotic evil character.

[Demented]

I don't know. Belkar doesn't strike me as the nihilistic type.

Oh, I wasn't saying he was nihilistic, I was saying he was in grief due to the loss of his skullsy. In grief, people do stupid things... Like trigger Marks of Justice. Of course, with his short attention span, that grief only lasted as long as it took for Haley to nab him and go.