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View Full Version : Firestorm Berserker and Icesinger for 5e



Llama513
2016-10-26, 04:34 PM
I will be posting the links once I have enough posts, I am still new

Llama513
2016-10-26, 04:35 PM
as such please ignore these first posts

Llama513
2016-10-26, 05:03 PM
I am looking to get some advice on how to make it better

Llama513
2016-10-26, 06:27 PM
Firestorm Berserker here: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkWIh7nsh
Icesinger here: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJFMGhj2

clash
2016-10-27, 09:01 AM
For the Firestorm beserker the damage seems high just looking at it, but would have to run the numbers just to see the difference.

Other than that, Firery Soul is too strong. Resistance and immunity as a level 6 feature is too much.

Sheath of Flame should require a reaction to fall in line with similiar abilities.

For Ventilating Shout it should have a flat damage. You a high enough level by then that having it scale seems needless. I also wouldn't mess with the base number of rages. That just seems like a extra layer of complication.

clash
2016-10-27, 09:06 AM
For the icesinger Frostbitten should use a bonus action rather than a reaction. It's not a reaction if your not reacting to anything, its just action economy abuse.

Fingers of frost is very thematic and may even be on the low side of the curve power wise.

Subzero soul seems alright but should have limited usage rather than potentially granting that affect on every attack the bard makes. Also rather than adding another roll, I would recommend using the save for the spell to determine if they freeze or not.

Llama513
2016-11-07, 07:48 PM
For the icesinger Frostbitten should use a bonus action rather than a reaction. It's not a reaction if your not reacting to anything, its just action economy abuse.

Fingers of frost is very thematic and may even be on the low side of the curve power wise.

Subzero soul seems alright but should have limited usage rather than potentially granting that affect on every attack the bard makes. Also rather than adding another roll, I would recommend using the save for the spell to determine if they freeze or not.

Frostbitten is in reaction to being attacked by an enemy within 60 feet of you,

For fingers of Frost what do you recommend to bring it more in line with the power curve,

For Subzero soul, I have it as separate saves, as it is a separate affect to the spell, and certain spells that activate it do not have saves associated with them, my reasoning behind not having a certain number of uses a day, is because I feel that it is something that they just do, but if I were to have a certain number of uses I could go with your charisma mod + half your bard level

Llama513
2016-11-07, 07:54 PM
For the Firestorm beserker the damage seems high just looking at it, but would have to run the numbers just to see the difference.

Other than that, Firery Soul is too strong. Resistance and immunity as a level 6 feature is too much.

Sheath of Flame should require a reaction to fall in line with similiar abilities.

For Ventilating Shout it should have a flat damage. You a high enough level by then that having it scale seems needless. I also wouldn't mess with the base number of rages. That just seems like a extra layer of complication.

Should I have Fiery soul just give resistance to fire damage initially, and then introduce the cold resistance and fire immunity at higher levels

For Sheath of Flame I thought about having it as a reaction, and would be willing to do that, but I also fell that as you are on fire, having as a reaction doesn't make much sense, but I would be willing if it absolutely needs to be a reaction change it to one, or if I needed to I would be wiling to drop the damage to just the 1D8 or a lower damage die, to keep it not being a reaction

For Ventilating Shout, I think I understand what you are saying, and am thinking of having the damage be 10d10 if I were to make it flat damage, as for the extra rages I feel they are necessary to make up for the fact that you burn them when you use Ventilating Shout, but If you feel that having the same number of rages as a normal barbarian would be better, with out making the trade off for using ventilating shout, as it ends your rage, so costly that it would not be used I am fine with removing the extra rages

Sorry about the long delay in replying

Bharaeth
2016-11-08, 05:09 AM
Hmm. The wording, particularly for Ventilating Shout, seems to go against some of the 5e conventions. I think 'burst' as a technical term for an area attack was more of a 4e thing. Also, is there a way of smoothing out the wording for that feature in general? I had to re-read it a few times to ease my brain. Perhaps the following:

"At 14th level, the Firestorm Beserker can unleash the strength of their inner flame in a devastating assault.

While Raging, as an action, the Firestorm Beserker can let out a roar that unleashes a burst of flames. Roll a number of d10 equal to half your barbarian level, rounded down; the total is how much fire damage this feature can inflict. Creatures within 20 feet of you are affected in order of closest proximity, and if there is more than one creature the same distance away, the creature with the lowest hit points is affected first.

Each creature affected is pushed back 20 feet, and must make a Dexterity saving throw, and the saving throw DC is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier. On a failed save, they suffer the fire damage. If the damage exceeds the creature's remaining hit points, subtract the damage the creature suffered from the total, before moving on to the next creature. Continue in this way until all target creatures in range have been affected, or the total has been reduced to 0.

Once this ability has been used, your rage ends immediately, and you cannot re-enter rage for 1d4 rounds.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum of once). When you finish a long rest, you regain all expended uses.

Also, your soul burns with such an intensity that you are able to ignite your inner fire with much greater ease. You can rage a number of times equal to half your barbarian level, rounded down, instead of what is shown in the Rages column of the Barbarian table."

That said, I agree with Clash in that you need to flatten the numbers a bit, and not have the damage scale. This feature is pretty complex - I would want to have a flat (lower) amount of fire damage affect all within range. with the sleep spell mechanic for depleting damage, how do you envision that playing out visually? Rather than a burst of flames, do the flames somehow flow in a rush from target to target?

I also think that you shouldn't hand out extra rages (and how does this interact with the lvl 20 barbarian's unlimited rage?), but I would also get rid of the d4 rounds delay. Why not just have this be a once per short rest thing?

And then, the auto push. Although it adds complexity, I would be tempted to limit this by creature size: I couldn't imagine a gargantuan creature being pushed.

Equally, I think the unattended flammable objects within the radius should also go up in flames.

clash
2016-11-08, 08:50 AM
Frostbitten is in reaction to being attacked by an enemy within 60 feet of you,

Missed that part, it is fine as is.



For fingers of Frost what do you recommend to bring it more in line with the power curve,


As is there isn't really any reason to use fingers of frost over ray of frost (2d4 + 5 ~ 10 vs 2d8 ~ 9 + ranged and slow effect). I would instead have it add cha to damage of cold cantrips.



For Subzero soul, I have it as separate saves, as it is a separate affect to the spell, and certain spells that activate it do not have saves associated with them, my reasoning behind not having a certain number of uses a day, is because I feel that it is something that they just do, but if I were to have a certain number of uses I could go with your charisma mod + half your bard level

If you want it to be unlimited use then I think it needs to be altered a bit. At the very least make it 1st level spells or higher so it isn't at will. Then I think I would remove the save at the beginning of its turn and instead have the duration last until the start of your next turn. Then if they fail the save you are guaranteed one turn but never more than that, but that isnt as important I think as limiting to 1st level and higher.

clash
2016-11-08, 08:59 AM
Should I have Fiery soul just give resistance to fire damage initially, and then introduce the cold resistance and fire immunity at higher levels


I think that would work better yes.



For Sheath of Flame I thought about having it as a reaction, and would be willing to do that, but I also fell that as you are on fire, having as a reaction doesn't make much sense, but I would be willing if it absolutely needs to be a reaction change it to one, or if I needed to I would be wiling to drop the damage to just the 1D8 or a lower damage die, to keep it not being a reaction


At 1d8 I think you could have it as not a reaction and still be balanced.



For Ventilating Shout, I think I understand what you are saying, and am thinking of having the damage be 10d10 if I were to make it flat damage, as for the extra rages I feel they are necessary to make up for the fact that you burn them when you use Ventilating Shout, but If you feel that having the same number of rages as a normal barbarian would be better, with out making the trade off for using ventilating shout, as it ends your rage, so costly that it would not be used I am fine with removing the extra rages


I am with Bharaeth on this one. Make it lower damage that just flat out affects everyone with half damage on a save. I feel that fits the imagery better unless you are visualizing something more like he described. Also I would have the push affect those who fail their save and not worry about size.

Llama513
2016-11-08, 11:52 AM
Thank you very much for your advice, for Ventilating Shout would 7d10 be too high for just flat damage, or do you think that is about right
As for the 1d4 rounds until rage, my worry being that if as a barbarian in a big fight you can not rage, your going to be in trouble, making it so this ability would not be used during important fights, as the trade off is too much of a risk

A thought occurred to me about Fiery Soul, if it was just Fire Immunity while raging would that be fine

Updated Version here: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkWIh7nsh

Llama513
2016-11-08, 12:47 PM
Updated Icesinger is here: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJFMGhj2

clash
2016-11-08, 12:57 PM
Updated Icesinger is here: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJFMGhj2

This looks good to me

Llama513
2016-11-08, 01:01 PM
Thanks for your help getting Icesinger re-balanced, I really appreciate it

clash
2016-11-08, 01:02 PM
Thank you very much for your advice, for Ventilating Shout would 7d10 be too high for just flat damage, or do you think that is about right
As for the 1d4 rounds until rage, my worry being that if as a barbarian in a big fight you can not rage, your going to be in trouble, making it so this ability would not be used during important fights, as the trade off is too much of a risk


I think this is fine without the caveat. Any major abuse would come from being able to use this ability in succession and short rest takes care of that. 7D10 is probably fine. I might suggest 10d6 instead as it just seems less random as is close enough to the desired dmg output.



A thought occurred to me about Fiery Soul, if it was just Fire Immunity while raging would that be fine


Fire immunity at level 6 is a problem because casters gain fireball at level 5 allowing them to crisp everyone around you without hurting you. At higher levels this is less of a problem as fireball becomes less relevant.

Llama513
2016-11-08, 01:07 PM
I think this is fine without the caveat. Any major abuse would come from being able to use this ability in succession and short rest takes care of that. 7D10 is probably fine. I might suggest 10d6 instead as it just seems less random as is close enough to the desired dmg output.



Fire immunity at level 6 is a problem because casters gain fireball at level 5 allowing them to crisp everyone around you without hurting you. At higher levels this is less of a problem as fireball becomes less relevant.

Thank you very much for the help, I decided to go with reistance to fire at 6th, immunity to fire at 14th, and cold resistance at 10th, I like your idea for the damage on Ventilating Shout, The only reason I have the rage delay is to represent that you are releasing the energy that you use for your rage, and thus need to build it back up, but I could remove it, or have a shorter delay between rages, but I want to have that delay because of flavor

It just occurred to me what to have it be, Ventilating Shout ends your rage, and you can't enter rage again until your next turn

clash
2016-11-08, 02:05 PM
I like that idea

Llama513
2016-11-08, 02:05 PM
Thanks for your help

Updated Version: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkWIh7nsh