Is there a way to gain sight?

[SangoProduction]

As in, if you have a blind character, and want it to gain sight like a human. Preferably permanently (or at least while an item is worn), but anything would be nice.

Shapechange-type abilities might work. I don't know for certain.

For reference, I am using a Gelatinous Cube at the moment.

[DedWards]

You're basically looking for Blindsense and Blindsight, which is normally a monster ability.

[SangoProduction]

You're basically looking for Blindsense and Blindsight, which is normally a monster ability.

No, I'm actually looking for regular sight. Darkvision, blindsense, and blindsight (blindsight being something Gelatinous Cube comes equipped with), all have ranges, which implies, if you don't have another means of seeing, that you can only see to that range.

[AvatarVecna]

Spymaster's Coin, perhaps? If you can find a way to get around needing to constantly concentrate on it (Extraordinary Concentration feat, maybe?) and make the duration long enough to be useful (continuous item, at-will Item with an artificer on hand to Persistent Spell it, spell with an Incantatrix on hand to Persistent Spell it, something something Acorn of Far Travel, NI CL shenanigans...), you can carry the enspelled coins around inside of you and have a Clairaudience/Clairvoyance effect centered on yourself that moves with you.

[Inevitability]

Is curing whatever condition imposed this blindness an option?

[AvatarVecna]

Is curing whatever condition imposed this blindness an option?

Considering the condition is "being a Gelatinous Cube which has no ability to see beyond its blindsight radius", I think that the closest thing to a "cure" is the kind of shapechanging the OP suggested.

[Professor Chimp]

Well, if your blindness stems from damaged or otherwise non-functional eyes, I suppose you could get yourself some grafted eyes. There are several that give you some kind of vision, bonuses to spot checks and/or gaze attacks, so while they don't specifically state they do, they most likely give you full eyesight as well. They're also permanent, non-magical in nature (so no getting dispelled or suppresed in anti-magic fields) and don't take up a magic item slot, but they usually also have a harmful downside of some kind. If you want, more info on types of grafts here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190350-Fleshwarping-A-List-of-Grafts-Symbionts-and-Related-Goodies)

If your blindness is caused by brain damage, then I think grafting wouldn't work because a new set of eyes still wouldn't work and you very well can't replace your brain. Some shapechanging-ability or magic could potentially do the job, but most only change your physical traits, not your mental ones, so presumably your brain stays the same, just in a different body. Polymorph Any Object does change your INT and gives you a WIS and CHA if you didn't have one before, so I guess it does actually change your noggin'. You could ask your DM for a ruling. It's a lv8 spell though, so possibly still out of your league.

If all else fails, you could always just make the problem go away with Wish or Miracle, but again, both are possibly too high level for you to have access to.

[JeminiZero]

Maybe a graft or symbiont? Check this list:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190350

[SangoProduction]

Grafts could work, assuming you've got some DM buy in. Problem is, most of those bastards are evil, and the Draconic one (Glaring Eye) gives blindsense, which is a strictly worse ability than blindsight, and at a shorter range, which means part of what you're paying for is wasted. But at just 10k, that's...actually not bad if it gives you vision.

Rudimentary Eye Spots make some decent sense, and more or less directly says it grants you the ability to see (and it isn't evil as far as I can tell)...it's 50k gp more than Glaring Eye. "At least you aren't wasting what you're paying for." Am I right?

Oh? I found Spyglass Eye. Lets the recipient ignore normal -1 penalty per 10 ft of distance, and works out to a distance of 150 ft, after which you take -1 penalty per 10 feet as normal. only 25,000 gp, and more or less explicitly gives...amplification to your normal sight. But, by a liberal reading, it actually gives you sight.

As far as Symbionts go, seems like only the Stormstalk one even resembles an eye (which, again, given GM buy in, could work), but doesn't give bonuses to spot, which a DM might interpret as not being used to see.

[Fizban]

Have a look at the Synesthete (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/synesthete.htm) power and ask your DM. At one point it says "your normal visual abilities," but later it explicitly says you can "hear light if you are blinded." Oozes are listed as blind, but technically they aren't blinded. It's gray enough that a RAW zealot will have a field day, but it's the closest thing I've ever found.

Grafts are a genius idea fluff-wise, mechanically you probably can't use the newer types that are replacements but old-types from before that didn't care. Absolutely no support for it giving you a new sense though. Best I can find is from the oldest lot, Fiend Folio's Beholder graft Crown of Eyes, which says "their vision is poor (half normal range)," explicitly giving this set of eyes their own vision, unlike all the rest. There's no such thing as a definition for normal vision range, the best that can be justified is double spot penalties for distance and maybe forcing you to reach half the normal encounter distance before you're allowed to roll checks. It's a hefty 60k though, obviously meant for people that want built in darkvision and all-around vision that a blindsighted creature hardly needs-but as you have surmised, the inability to see past 60' is crippling in the surface world where you're expected to see out to the horizon.

Sharing sight is significantly easier for short periods of time via spells like Share Husk or Chain of Eyes, as is gaining a pet which can see for you. Psionics are already perfect for weird creatures by ignoring all the usual restrictions of casting, and a single level of Psion can get you both Synesthete for occasions when you need to see personally, and an inorganic unliving telepathic crystal with full sight that shares your skill ranks (minimum 4 actually) in the form of a Psycrystal. It can be engulfed within your body at all times effectively making it impossible to target (no line of effect) for anyone who doesn't dive into you, and while you can't see personally it can relay everything to you at all times.

[CaPtMalHammer]

Is a tough one, The Spy item is a good way, grafting can happen. Was this a flaw at beginning of game? Could always play it up and take blindfight etc. or you could just buy a growing sword and have site beyond site!:)

[Segev]

The robe of eyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#robeofEyes) will let you see, assuming your cube has a "torso slot" to wear it in. It's also quite expensive.

[Darrin]

Try dipping Psion for one level. Pick up the synesthete and synchronicity powers. For your bonus feat, take Linked Power. When you get some free feat slots, pick up Metapower and Psionic Meditation. This lets you activate synesthete all day (albeit in 10 minute increments) for 0 PP.

Hmm. That won't work. You'll need at least Int 11. Psychic Warrior 1 or Wilder 2 could do it if your Wis/Cha is high enough, but it will require another feat.

[radthemad4]

The Basilisk Mask soulmeld gets you lowlight vision and 30 ft Darkvision for every point of essentia invested. I 'think' it grants it even if you can't see normally by RAW, but I don't know for sure and it might not get approved by a DM.


While the basilisk is feared primarily for its petrifying gaze, totemists also revere it as a patron of vision. Your basilisk mask grants you low-light vision.
Essentia: The basilisk mask grants you darkvision with a range of 30 feet per point of essentia invested in the soulmeld.

If approved, you can get lowlight vision by just taking Shape Soulmeld, and you can take essentia boosting feats if you want Darkvision too.

There's the Inhuman Vision Aberrant feat, but it has a feat tax and gives you a range of 5 ft Darkvision per aberrant feat, but the fluff "You possess the inhuman eyes of some strange creature. They might look segmented or larger or without pupils. You might even have eyestalks." seems like it'd be more likely to get approved for granting sight to a sightless creature.See Darrin's post below.

[Inevitability]

Awaken says it grants an Awakened tree human senses. If you can count as a tree somehow (Extended Tree Shape?) it could net you sight.

[Darrin]

There's the Inhuman Vision Aberrant feat, but it has a feat tax and gives you a range of 5 ft Darkvision per aberrant feat, but the fluff "You possess the inhuman eyes of some strange creature. They might look segmented or larger or without pupils. You might even have eyestalks." seems like it'd be more likely to get approved for granting sight to a sightless creature.

Won't work. You need Aberration Blood first, and that requires the humanoid type. And while that isn't exactly impossible (Human Heritage or Dustform/Incarnate Construct shenanigans), it's probably going to involve some heinous template wankery of some sort well above and beyond the flying fire-breathing ooze you started things off with.


Awaken says it grants an Awakened tree human senses. If you can count as a tree somehow (Extended Tree Shape?) it could net you sight.

Awaken ooze is a thing (Dragon #304), but the actual text of the spell is exceedingly vague. It doesn't mention any of the mechanical changes that awaken does, so it's not clear if the ooze version includes them as well.

If all you need is some way to add low-light or darkvision, then Dragonborn of Bahamut might be the way to go here... 100 GP, take the Mind aspect, and fluff it as "you gain dragon eyes... somewhere." If Ritual of Rebirth can give you dragon wings or a tail, then why not eyes? I think you'd still be ok trait-wise, as you retain your existing type and subtypes.

[martixy]

I was thinking of handwaving it, but thanks for your concern. :smalltongue:

But it is an interesting question.


Won't work. You need Aberration Blood first, and that requires the humanoid type. And while that isn't exactly impossible (Human Heritage or Dustform/Incarnate Construct shenanigans), it's probably going to involve some heinous template wankery of some sort well above and beyond the flying fire-breathing ooze you started things off with.

There is a much, much easier way:

Mourning Mutate - a feat that unlocks the aberration line for non-humanoids. Located in Dr.359.

Edit: Oh, and the Unseelie Fey template also modifies vision, but is tied to a die roll. You might still end up with blindsight or tremorsense, but chances(90%) are you get regular eyes.

[SangoProduction]

Awaken says it grants an Awakened tree human senses. If you can count as a tree somehow (Extended Tree Shape?) it could net you sight.

The book (April Augmented 2016) where I'm getting the race from (Gelatinous Ooze) says you gain "awaken-like" abilities, as detailed below, and are no longer mindless. It then says that you are blind, and have blindsight.


If all you need is some way to add low-light or darkvision, then Dragonborn of Bahamut might be the way to go here... 100 GP, take the Mind aspect, and fluff it as "you gain dragon eyes... somewhere." If Ritual of Rebirth can give you dragon wings or a tail, then why not eyes? I think you'd still be ok trait-wise, as you retain your existing type and subtypes.
I was halfway thinking of this. There really needs to be a thread discussing what is and is not replaced by Dragonborn template. (That little statement wasn't directly related to yours, but I just really hate how I don't know what Dragonborn replaces.)


The Basilisk Mask soulmeld gets you lowlight vision and 30 ft Darkvision for every point of essentia invested. I 'think' it grants it even if you can't see normally by RAW, but I don't know for sure and it might not get approved by a DM.
If approved, you can get lowlight vision by just taking Shape Soulmeld, and you can take essentia boosting feats if you want Darkvision too..

Obtaining lowlight vision would probably work for obtaining sight. I think I might take that. It's essentially just improved sight, and basically follows the same rules. I would have a hard time arguing that this wouldn't give you sight.


Try dipping Psion for one level. Pick up the synesthete and synchronicity powers. For your bonus feat, take Linked Power. When you get some free feat slots, pick up Metapower and Psionic Meditation. This lets you activate synesthete all day (albeit in 10 minute increments) for 0 PP.

Hmm. That won't work. You'll need at least Int 11. Psychic Warrior 1 or Wilder 2 could do it if your Wis/Cha is high enough, but it will require another feat.
I don't get how you are getting 0 PP for it? Is synchronicity counting as a metapower?


The robe of eyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#robeofEyes) will let you see, assuming your cube has a "torso slot" to wear it in. It's also quite expensive.

Yeah, that's a bit rich, but it explicitly allows for sight, which is nice. It's also got a few extra goodies, and spot is valuable...But yeah, maybe later lol.


Sharing sight is significantly easier for short periods of time via spells like Share Husk or Chain of Eyes, as is gaining a pet which can see for you. Psionics are already perfect for weird creatures by ignoring all the usual restrictions of casting, and a single level of Psion can get you both Synesthete for occasions when you need to see personally, and an inorganic unliving telepathic crystal with full sight that shares your skill ranks (minimum 4 actually) in the form of a Psycrystal. It can be engulfed within your body at all times effectively making it impossible to target (no line of effect) for anyone who doesn't dive into you, and while you can't see personally it can relay everything to you at all times.

What is the purpose of the Psycrystal embedded in to you? Just so you get a second chance to see? But that sounds like a good idea. I might pick up a couple wands of Chain of Eyes, if I can't get sight another way.

[Darrin]

I don't get how you are getting 0 PP for it? Is synchronicity counting as a metapower?

Metapower permanently links synesthete and synchronicity together with Linked Power, so you have to expend your psionic focus to use synesthete. Metapower also drops the PP cost to activate both powers by -2. Well, the cost of two 1st-level powers was 2 PP to begin with, so 2 - 2 = 0 PP. During the next round, you manifest synchronicity for 0 PP, which gives you a readied action. If you have the Psionic Meditation feat, you can regain your psionic focus with a move action. As your readied action, you can regain your psionic focus without impacting your other actions that turn.

[SangoProduction]

Metapower permanently links synesthete and synchronicity together with Linked Power, so you have to expend your psionic focus to use synesthete. Metapower also drops the PP cost to activate both powers by -2. Well, the cost of two 1st-level powers was 2 PP to begin with, so 2 - 2 = 0 PP. During the next round, you manifest synchronicity for 0 PP, which gives you a readied action. If you have the Psionic Meditation feat, you can regain your psionic focus with a move action. As your readied action, you can regain your psionic focus without impacting your other actions that turn.

huh...that's...interesting.

[Segev]

Synchronicity is a highly abusable power, yeah.



Had another thought when somebody recommended sharing sight: build or commission a homunculus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/homunculus.htm) for yourself. Now, it says it "conveys all it sees and hears" rather than "shares senses," so your DM may rule that you only get an idea of it rather than actually see it, yourself.

Alternatively, there's sense link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/senseLink.htm), though it takes Concentration. It's big brother, forced sense link could be manifested by an ally, but still costs pp and the ally's actions.

[Barstro]

Depending on how much you want to stretch RAW to its limits;

In pathfinder, at least, there is a spell "Countless Eyes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/countless-eyes)" that grants "all-around vision". (The creature sees in all directions at once. It cannot be flanked).

RAW;
1) creature gains eyes.
2) creature can see
3) nothing says that the creature needs eyes in the first place

I know of no rule (but there might be one) that says a blind creature cannot benefit from this spell.

[SangoProduction]

Depending on how much you want to stretch RAW to its limits;

In pathfinder, at least, there is a spell "Countless Eyes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/countless-eyes)" that grants "all-around vision". (The creature sees in all directions at once. It cannot be flanked).

RAW;
1) creature gains eyes.
2) creature can see
3) nothing says that the creature needs eyes in the first place

I know of no rule (but there might be one) that says a blind creature cannot benefit from this spell.

Yeah. It explicitly gains all-around vision, which explicitly says "sees in all directions at once." I'd definitely have a hard time arguing that it doesn't work. Only thing I could think to say "well, it doesn't say how you see."

By the way. Isn't it weird that all these things that grant vision all around the creature (such as robe of eye as well) allow one to avoid being flanked, but natural all-around vision like blindsight and tremorsense and what have you can still be flanked? Of course, if they couldn't then "**** rogues", and we've already got undead for that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Remove blindness/deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeBlindnessDeafness.htm), maybe? I mean, a gelatinous cube's blindness IS "natural," which is removed by the spell.

Personally, I'd be more concerned at the fact that you're not immune to your own acid coating.

[Inevitability]

Remove blindness/deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeBlindnessDeafness.htm), maybe? I mean, a gelatinous cube's blindness IS "natural," which is removed by the spell.

Personally, I'd be more concerned at the fact that you're not immune to your own acid coating.

It says it 'cures' the effect, though. Can you cure a person who isn't afflicted with anything?

[Fizban]

Nothing says blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense works in all directions at once. One might think that because they automatically notice anything that enters range, but normal sight works exactly the same way except that it's foiled by darkness and hide checks and such. Blightsight and sense represent echolocation on many creatures, which I'm fairly certain has a degree of directionality. And blindsense/tremorsense explicitly don't give you enough information to negate invisibility anyway, sneak attacks work just fine against them.

[SangoProduction]

Nothing says blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense works in all directions at once. One might think that because they automatically notice anything that enters range, but normal sight works exactly the same way except that it's foiled by darkness and hide checks and such. Blightsight and sense represent echolocation on many creatures, which I'm fairly certain has a degree of directionality. And blindsense/tremorsense explicitly don't give you enough information to negate invisibility anyway, sneak attacks work just fine against them.

OK. You've got a point.


Remove blindness/deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeBlindnessDeafness.htm), maybe? I mean, a gelatinous cube's blindness IS "natural," which is removed by the spell.

Personally, I'd be more concerned at the fact that you're not immune to your own acid coating.

If you have a DM lenient enough to let Remove Blindness work, then all the more power to you. About the acid...even if you have a DM who has a natural part of the creature damaging it, the Gelatinous Cube race (in April Augmented 2016) does have immunity to acid.

[Duke of Urrel]

The Greater Prying Eyes spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyesGreater.htm) should enable anybody to see anything, because a Greater Prying Eye is endowed with True Seeing, and when it returns to your hand, it "replays in your mind all it has seen during its existence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm)." It seems to me that this should work even if you don't naturally have the power to see anything, because all that you need is a mind.* You could see anything at all, only with some delay.

The best thing for you would be somehow to acquire the Greater Prying Eye spell as a spell-like ability, I think. Unfortunately, I can't explain how you would do that.
____________________________
*By the way, if you play a gelatinous cube as a character, do you have a mind?

[SangoProduction]

The Greater Prying Eyes spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyesGreater.htm) should enable anybody to see anything, because a Greater Prying Eye is endowed with True Seeing, and when it returns to your hand, it "replays in your mind all it has seen during its existence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm)." It seems to me that this should work even if you don't naturally have the power to see anything, because all that you need is a mind.* You could see anything at all, only with some delay.

The best thing for you would be somehow to acquire the Greater Prying Eye spell as a spell-like ability, I think. Unfortunately, I can't explain how you would do that.
____________________________
*By the way, if you play a gelatinous cube as a character, do you have a mind?

Well, the cube isn't *mindless*... In the playable race at least. This implies it has a mind. How? Magic. No point getting in to the philosophy of what even is a mind.

[Duke of Urrel]

By the way. Isn't it weird that all these things that grant vision all around the creature (such as robe of eye as well) allow one to avoid being flanked, but natural all-around vision like blindsight and tremorsense and what have you can still be flanked? Of course, if they couldn't then "**** rogues", and we've already got undead for that.


Nothing says blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense works in all directions at once. One might think that because they automatically notice anything that enters range, but normal sight works exactly the same way except that it's foiled by darkness and hide checks and such. Blindsight and sense represent echolocation on many creatures, which I'm fairly certain has a degree of directionality. And blindsense/tremorsense explicitly don't give you enough information to negate invisibility anyway, sneak attacks work just fine against them.

You're right about Blindsense and Tremorsense, Fizban; neither one is as accurate as seeing. However, Blindsight is as accurate as seeing within its range, and I believe both sonic and olfactory Blindsight really do work in all directions. You can hear somebody in front of you as easily as you can hear somebody behind you, and sonar works in all directions at once. You can also smell somebody in any direction, and Blindsight isn't even limited by the wind direction (as the Scent ability is). Sure, Blindsight is "directional," but this only means that Blindsight tells you not only how far away something is, but also in which direction it lies.

I would argue that since neither sound nor smells move at the speed of light, therefore no sense except vision works fast enough to enable you to avoid being flanked.


Well, the cube isn't *mindless*... In the playable race at least. This implies it has a mind. How? Magic. No point getting in to the philosophy of what even is a mind.

Thank you for this. I agree; let's not murder any cat-people.

[Segev]

Good point. I think the lowest-level spell that does that is arcane eye, which is just one, but also doesn't require the orb to return to you. So you can just have it float around. Expensive to make a continuous item of it, though, at 4x7x2000 x another 2 for being a min/level.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Become an undead or construct with telepathy (possibly via mindbender) and take Life Sense and Mindsight? Or you could just take some psion levels and take Psicrystal Affinity and have your psicrystal take them instead, and use it as a seeing eye rock. Shape it like an actual eye and have it floating inside your glutinous, gelatinous mass for more fun. Take synesthete followed by touchsight later on.

[Duke of Urrel]

Good point. I think the lowest-level spell that does that is arcane eye, which is just one, but also doesn't require the orb to return to you. So you can just have it float around. Expensive to make a continuous item of it, though, at 4x7x2000 x another 2 for being a min/level.

Some sticklers may argue that the sentence "It sees exactly as you would see if you were there" makes the Arcane Eye spell useless for a blind creature. A scrying sensor also "has your full visual acuity," which a stickler may argue is prohibitive for a blind creature. This is why I recommended the Greater Prying Eyes spell, though of course this is also fairly inaccessible due to its high level (eighth!).

[Segev]

Some sticklers may argue that the sentence "It sees exactly as you would see if you were there" makes the Arcane Eye spell useless for a blind creature. A scrying sensor also "has your full visual acuity," which a stickler may argue is prohibitive for a blind creature. This is why I recommended the Greater Prying Eyes spell, though of course this is also fairly inaccessible due to its high level (eighth!).

Hm. Also a good point.

[The Viscount]

The crown of eyes is a beholder graft that gives you all-around vision, so that could do it. Not cheap, but few grafts are.

You can indirectly gain sight with 1 method, which has 3 means of achieving it: 3 levels of binder, 1 level of binder with Improved Binding, or the Bind Vestige, Improved Bind vestige (a different feat), and Practiced Binder feats. Select Malphas, and use Bird's Eye Viewing to summon a bird which will appear with you. You can see through its eyes, and there's no duration on it.

[Inevitability]

Cabiri the Watching Master, a 4th-level vestige from dragon 357, says you grow an 'additional' eye on your forehead. However, it also says the eye is equidistant from any other eyes you have, which may be interpreted as not working when you don't have other eyes.