Building a 'Gunslinger'

[jaappleton]

Here's the skinny: I fell in love with a piece of artwork. Character has a sword on his back and a pistol in his hand. Showed it to my DM, he said it looks good, but we have to work together on HOW to make it work. He's not opposed to having firearms exist in the world, but they need to fit the mold, so to speak.

So I'm trying to come up with some ways to make it work.

The way I see it, there's two issues: What classes and archetypes fit a gunslinger, and how to treat the revolver.

1. Battlemaster Fighter. Battlemaster Maneuvers are 'trick shots'. Easy. No issue there that I see.

2. Revised Ranger gives it more of a tracker / bounty hunter feel. The advantage on initiative certainly fits a "quick draw" motif. Not quite certain how the spells fit. Not sure which archetype to use, Hunter or Deep Stalker. I've thought of attaching the Spell-Less Ranger to the Revised Ranger, but the 'call animal companions' thing seems to not fit well.

3. Eldritch Knight Fighter. The spells would work (and the Ranger's would work this way) as essentially 'Tech' that I've created; Scorching Ray would be shot out of a special bullet, for example.

4. Homebrew. There's a lot of Gunslinger stuff out there, the most famous one being the Fighter archetype that Matt Mercer made for Critical Role.


Now, the issue of how to treat the gun:

1. Use Matt Mercer's stuff from Critical Role. Misfire scores, using attacks to reload. Higher damage than standard weaponry. This obviously fits more in with using his Gunslinger archetype.

2. Reskin a Longbow. D8, Piercing, don't worry about reloading. This fits more with using existing classes and archetypes.


So my question is, which way would YOU go and what're its strengths?

This will be a two person party. Myself and essentially an Oathbreaker. Not too concerned about healing, as we'll be given healing potions sprinkled throughout loot we find.

[INDYSTAR188]

Here's the skinny: I fell in love with a piece of artwork. Character has a sword on his back and a pistol in his hand. Showed it to my DM, he said it looks good, but we have to work together on HOW to make it work. He's not opposed to having firearms exist in the world, but they need to fit the mold, so to speak.

So I'm trying to come up with some ways to make it work.

The way I see it, there's two issues: What classes and archetypes fit a gunslinger, and how to treat the revolver.

1. Battlemaster Fighter. Battlemaster Maneuvers are 'trick shots'. Easy. No issue there that I see.

2. Revised Ranger gives it more of a tracker / bounty hunter feel. The advantage on initiative certainly fits a "quick draw" motif. Not quite certain how the spells fit. Not sure which archetype to use, Hunter or Deep Stalker. I've thought of attaching the Spell-Less Ranger to the Revised Ranger, but the 'call animal companions' thing seems to not fit well.

3. Eldritch Knight Fighter. The spells would work (and the Ranger's would work this way) as essentially 'Tech' that I've created; Scorching Ray would be shot out of a special bullet, for example.

4. Homebrew. There's a lot of Gunslinger stuff out there, the most famous one being the Fighter archetype that Matt Mercer made for Critical Role.


Now, the issue of how to treat the gun:

1. Use Matt Mercer's stuff from Critical Role. Misfire scores, using attacks to reload. Higher damage than standard weaponry. This obviously fits more in with using his Gunslinger archetype.

2. Reskin a Longbow. D8, Piercing, don't worry about reloading. This fits more with using existing classes and archetypes.


So my question is, which way would YOU go and what're its strengths?

This will be a two person party. Myself and essentially an Oathbreaker. Not too concerned about healing, as we'll be given healing potions sprinkled throughout loot we find.

I would definitely go with the Matt Mercer version. It has been very popular on the Guild website, is pretty well balanced and vetted and is really thematic and flavorful. There are enough drawbacks to make it reasonable.

Regarding the gun - there are examples of firearms in the DMG I believe (I am at work unfortunately). I would check there and/or use whatever version Mercer does for his class.

If you don't like that option I would be inclined to use the Battlemaster option and the DMG firearms.

[Naanomi]

Pure 'by the book' battle master focusing on handcrossbows fits the theme well even without reskinning

[ZX6Rob]

Pure 'by the book' battle master focusing on handcrossbows fits the theme well even without reskinning

I agree with this -- there are a handful of maneuvers for the Battlemaster that absolutely fit with the idea of a "trick-shooter" character, and you'll still have full proficiency with other weapons. You can use light armor such as studded leather (which you can describe as a heavy duster with leather mail underneath, if it fits the image) with a high Dexterity score to get a reliably decent AC, and focus on attacking from range to soften up your opponents, using your maneuvers to deny them movement or control the battlefield, and move in for the kill with your sword (a rapier or re-skinned version thereof to take advantage of the finesse property and thus your high Dexterity).

For pistols, I like to re-skin Hand Crossbows without change. I don't up the damage, it's not worth the headache of trying to "balance" it with goofy nonsense like misfires and such. I don't think properties or features like "you do more damage, but if you roll a 1, look out, your weapon is useless!" are examples of elegant design.

For revolvers (or pepperboxes, or other multi-shot hand firearms in general), I like to use a property I call repeating(x), though others have doubtless had the same idea under the same or different names. Essentially, a weapon with this property can be fired (X) number of times before it must be reloaded, and reloading a repeating weapon is an Action. A revolver would thus be statistically identical to a hand crossbow with the repeating(6) property instead of loading. After 6 shots, you'd lose a round's Action to reload it with six new shells.

In one of the previous games I played in, we had a player do something very similar, creating a gunslinger by using hand crossbows as firearms, but he chose to use a Bard from the College of Valor to do his fighting, since he also wanted to use magic.

[Biggstick]

Pure 'by the book' battle master focusing on handcrossbows fits the theme well even without reskinning

This is very much so the best answer. A Battlemaster Fighter focusing on Hand Crossbows (reskinned as whatever you want, but maintain the d6 attack die) will be the easiest way to achieve what you're looking for.

If you're looking for more of a bounty hunter or tracker feel, you can grab the relevant background. Backgrounds actually provide quite a bit for your character RP wise that you don't need from your actual character build.

One thing that might discourage you from pure Battlemaster is the lack of perceived growth. If you really feel like you need another class, you can always grab a few levels or more of Rogue. Gaining Thieves Tools proficiency, Expertise'd skills, some sneak attack dice, and an archetype can add quite a bit more flavor to the character. I'd personally recommend this type of character going 5-6 levels of Fighter, and then jumping over to Rogue for 3 levels. Pick an archetype from Rogue that you find interesting, and then come back to Battlemaster for the rest of your career.

[CaptainSarathai]

Wait, so, there are no guns at all in this campaign, and you get a revolver?!
Everyone everywhere (at least in the party) is going to want a gun now. So your DM isn't just giving you a gun, he's adding that tech to his entire campaign.

If he's okay with that, then you have options.

Mercer's homebrew is the best. But then, just like giving you a gun, the other players might also want to show up with Brewed characters, in which case balance could become suspect.

At my table (because I also love gunslingers) I just ruled that the 'Loading' property means that it takes 1 attack to reload. Boom, easy fix, and not very intrusive (only the Fighter shoots more than once per turn, and only at high levels). 1 attack to reload all held weapons, in case of dual-wielding, "John Woo style."
I also ignore the "free hand to load" requirements. That was a wierd ruling, because all things combined to take CE from "super broken" to being almost worthless for crossbows.
Lastly (and this is entirely up to the DM) I change Sharpshooter from -5/+10 to -X/+X, where the player can choose -1 from their attack for +1 to damage. I also do this with GWM, for what it's worth.

At this point, your character could honestly just use a sword and hand-crossbow, or a pair of hand-crossbows, and take the Crossbow Expert feat. That would cover you for flavor and break the least rules.

[jaappleton]

Wait, so, there are no guns at all in this campaign, and you get a revolver?!
Everyone everywhere (at least in the party) is going to want a gun now. So your DM isn't just giving you a gun, he's adding that tech to his entire campaign.

If he's okay with that, then you have options.

Mercer's homebrew is the best. But then, just like giving you a gun, the other players might also want to show up with Brewed characters, in which case balance could become suspect.

At my table (because I also love gunslingers) I just ruled that the 'Loading' property means that it takes 1 attack to reload. Boom, easy fix, and not very intrusive (only the Fighter shoots more than once per turn, and only at high levels). 1 attack to reload all held weapons, in case of dual-wielding, "John Woo style."
I also ignore the "free hand to load" requirements. That was a wierd ruling, because all things combined to take CE from "super broken" to being almost worthless for crossbows.
Lastly (and this is entirely up to the DM) I change Sharpshooter from -5/+10 to -X/+X, where the player can choose -1 from their attack for +1 to damage. I also do this with GWM, for what it's worth.

At this point, your character could honestly just use a sword and hand-crossbow, or a pair of hand-crossbows, and take the Crossbow Expert feat. That would cover you for flavor and break the least rules.

Oh, we're still working on just how open that forearms will be. Did I invent the first one? Was I part of a design team, and a criminal empire hired us to craft them, and tried to kill us all to censor the secret of its creation? Is this some ancient tech I stumbled upon in a vault?

We're working that out. My DM is away at a con right now, so we're gonna chat when he returns.

[Naanomi]

Using AL rules:

Stout Halfling
9/16/16/10/12/12
Custom Background - Gunslinger (uses pirate ability)
Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Perception, Intimidation
Poison kit, (thief tools/a language); whatever took the gm says makes your ammo from 'art of war'
Battle master 20
Archery Combat Style
ASI: crossbow mastery, sharpshooter, +2 Dex, +2 Dex, Lucky, Alert, (Martial Adept or Defensive Duelist)
Goading Attack, Menacing Attack, Precision Attack; Disarming Attack, Trip Attack; Evasive Cootwork, Push Attack; Commander's Strike, Maneuvering Attack; (Rally, Distracting Strike or Parry)

[jaappleton]

Definitely think Fighter (Gunslinger) or Fighter (Battlemaster) is the way to go, as opposed to the Ranger, because of the additional ASIs / Feats.

Gotta get Dex to 20.
Sharpshooter, definitely.
Depending on how we handle guns, Crossbow Expert might be in play.
If it's the Gunslinger archetype, I'll need Wisdom for Grit.
Resilient : Dex or Wisdom isn't a bad pick at all.

Two levels of Cleric might be appropriate, again depending on how guns are handled. Worshipping Gond or Erathis seems to be appropriate. Getting Bless in my repertoire, and Healing Word with a two person party can be invaluable. Light Domain nets me a few "no you don't crit me" opportunities with Warding Flare, while War Domain nets me a few bonus action attacks and the occasional +10 to hit.