Total Noob GM: How strong are low level parties in practice?

[Yora]

I only now first started looking at the 5th edition rules and never played it, saw it in action, or read other people's experiences with it. It looks quite interesting but I don't have any clues what a group of low level characters might actually be able to handle in practice.

I've heared that AC and attack bonuses increase only very slightly and so much weaker enemies are still able to occasionally hit characters that already got a good number of levels. Looking at the MM, most monsters seem to be of a low CR of 3 or under, and a single creature of equal CR is supposed to be no real threat to a party.

What does that mean in practice? Can most monsters be taken on by third level and any real threat comes from large enemy numbers? How many regular orcsand goblins would a 5th level party be able to beat?

I am thinking about a campaign with heroes who are very competent but don't casually sweep aside bandits and guards that outnumber them three to one. Does this work only at the lowest levels or do PC remain somewhat more humble with a need for caution until higher levels?

[Specter]

Due to bounded accuracy, a foe with a +4 to hit (say, an orc) can still damage the 20th-level paladin with 23AC (10% chance). So there's always some threat involved.

As for low levels, challenge ratings provide a decent match for an unoptimized party of 4 at the same level. 4 wolves against a level-1 party can go either way, and crits are very deadly early on. Good strategy is what will decide many fights.

[Leith]

Large groups start to get dangerous relatively quickly depending on party size.

At 5th level characters can already really mess with the balance of an encounter. Don't let that worry you though, 5e has a potent resource management aspect. My suggestion would be to use the encounter building guidelines In the DMG, get a feel for it, then adjust to suit your style.

For a break down think of the power levels as described by the DMG; lvls 1-4 PCs struggle to do just about anything; 5-8 they can very easily wreck 2-3 level appropriate encounters per day, dice permitting, but they'll run out of juice quickly; 9-12 they can start taking control of adventure storylines picking and choosing the encounters with relative ease; higher levels have the PCs messing with your campaign storylines and world.

That said challenging higher level characters isn't so much building difficult encounters but getting them the walk into the right (or wrong) encounters and how they can figure out which is which.

[MrFahrenheit]

Without magic involvement (either + items or spells), player AC can't increase beyond 21 for non-barbarians (who can get it to 22) until level 20, when barbarians specifically could, if they maxed con and dex, making strength secondary, get to AC 24.

With magic items, barbarians, fighters, paladins and rangers can increase to 27 if they build the character to defense. Certain spells (like shield) can temporarily increase it further.

HP still increases as it always had. Which is great for the cinematic effect of slicing through hoards of low CR enemies, who still pose a danger inherent in their quantity. It's a drag though when you have 3 or 4 bigger guys; then the party and team monster turn into two groups of trees chopping each other until one side eventually falls.

[Gastronomie]

Almost all monsters with a CR of 2 or more can crush a level 1 PC with a single blow. You should be careful of pitching high-CR monsters against low-level adventurerers.

[Shining Wrath]

The uncertainty of fights is greater at low levels. If you throw an appropriate level encounter at an 8th level party, and the dice go bad, someone probably has resources to pull the party through - spells or action surges or magic items. At low levels (especially first), one badly-timed critical hit by the monsters can drop someone. Then your carefully balanced encounter is imbalanced in favor of the monsters, and things can go very badly very quickly.

At low levels, don't be afraid to "cheat" on behalf of the players. Monsters can get very dumb very quickly about their tactics, and so on.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Me again! Sorry, you just keep asking questions I can answer...

There are plenty of monsters that are 'out of reach' for low-level parties, mainly because of their damage output. So, my party just hit level 4. The tanky ones have 40 and 32 HP, the squishies around half that. A brown bear (CR 1) throws out an average of 19 damage at +5. It can easily one-shot the mages or put a big dent in the tanks.

But what you really need to do is get the DMG and study page 82. That covers encounter sizing. I'll do some quick examples with your 5th level party vs. orcs and goblins

Let's assume a party of 4. XP thresholds: 1,000/2,000/3,000/4,400

Orc: 100XP
Orog: 450XP
War Chief: 1,100XP
Goblin: 50XP
Goblin Boss: 200XP

So...

Easy Encounters
5 to 7 Orcs
1 Goblin Boss + 5 Goblins
1 Orc + 6 Goblins
1 Orog + 1 Orc

Medium Encounters
8 to 10 Orcs
2 Goblin Bosses + 8 Goblins
2 Orogs + 1 Orc
1 Orc Chief + 1 Goblin Boss

Hard Encounters
11-13 Orcs
1 Orc Chief + 4 Orcs
3 Orogs
15 Goblins

Deadly Encounters
1 Orc Chief + 7 Orcs
14+ Orcs
4 Orcs + 14 Goblins
1 Orc Chief + 2 Orogs + 2 Orcs
5 Orogs

[PeteNutButter]

A number of foes can pretty much always do work on a party, but by 5th it can become very resource dependent.

For instance a tight formation of 20 orcs could get wiped out by a single fireball, but if the wizard is out of 3rd level slots... and even 2nd level... Without any solid AoE effects the party will likely lose the slug fest.

A high level hunter ranger is about the only class that can do scary AoE resource free.

[Demonslayer666]

You would be surprised how much damage an efficient party can dish out, even at low levels. I DM a group of 5 experienced players, and they can easily take on stuff well above their level.

For example, when they were only level 2, they took out an otyugh in four rounds. This surprised the heck out of me. Yes, the otyugh was not intended to take the party on directly (it had other targets along with the party), but the fact that they did that much damage that quickly was impressive.

The one thing I have learned is that it's not nearly as much of a challenge when they can concentrate fire on one thing.

[Shining Wrath]

A number of foes can pretty much always do work on a party, but by 5th it can become very resource dependent.

For instance a tight formation of 20 orcs could get wiped out by a single fireball, but if the wizard is out of 3rd level slots... and even 2nd level... Without any solid AoE effects the party will likely lose the slug fest.

A high level hunter ranger is about the only class that can do scary AoE resource free.

And even then you need lots of arrows.

I once threw 20 stirges at a 3rd level party. Bard won initiative, hit the tree with Sleep, encounter was trivial. But if the bard had rolled badly ...

[Gastronomie]

The one thing I have learned is that it's not nearly as much of a challenge when they can concentrate fire on one thing.This is true. For this reason, solo encounters are seldom a good idea in 5e.

Apart from the too-easily-dying problem stated above, it can also get repetitive and boring. Make sure to have "some" number of enemies.

[Yora]

Sounds like I don't have to worry about PCs getting superhuman in a campaign with little magic equipment and capped at 10th level. Good to know.

[ruy343]

Sounds like I don't have to worry about PCs getting superhuman in a campaign with little magic equipment and capped at 10th level. Good to know.

Superhuman? no. They'll have access to some good abilities and spells by that point, and min/maxing players might be dishing out 100+ damage in a round ounce per combat, but at the same time, smart DMing can help the players to enjoy a good challenge without cheapening the feel of the campaign.

The reason that many DMs (myself included) have problems with players taking out their BBEGs in one or two rounds is often because the players are fully rested prior to the climactic conclusion, and feel as though they can blow all of their resources in one encounter. I encourage you to place the PCs in a state of emergency, where they don't know how much more they'll have to go through before resting is possible. Creating a sense of urgency can really help you to push your players away from resting whenever they're out of 3rd level spell slots!

[SillyPopeNachos]

1st level parties are very squishy. Even a handful of giant rats can threaten a group. Start small, like with CR 0's or 1/8's, and adjust quantity and CR as necessary.

[MaxWilson]

I am thinking about a campaign with heroes who are very competent but don't casually sweep aside bandits and guards that outnumber them three to one. Does this work only at the lowest levels or do PC remain somewhat more humble with a need for caution until higher levels?

It depends on how skilled the players are at tactics and optimization.

Beating three or four times your number of MM guards or bandits is very achievable by 8th level, if you build for it. I think you'd have a pretty good shot at doing it by 4th level, but it would be dicier, and you might lose. By 5th level your capabilities take a quantum leap, and by 8th level it is casually achievable, especially if you leverage spells like Polymorph, Hypnotic Pattern/Fireball, and Blur/Shield. But it's also possible for four PCs to lose one or more PCs to twelve bandits if the PCs play poorly.

[Safety Sword]

The number of encounters per day is a critical factor in this discussion.

Your party can take on much more difficult encounters if they have resources to burn. If however the hard encounter is the last one of 8 in the day you'll probably wipe the floor with them.

[Yora]

Are there any other resources than spells?

[Dimers]

Barbarian rages, bard inspirations, cleric channels, druid wildshapes, fighter action surge and second wind (plus maneuvers for Battle Master subclass), monk ki, a few aspects of paladins, metamagic points for sorcerers, some warlock invocations and patron benefits, some wizard specialties. Rangers have spells, so really only rogues are not resource-limited. Resourceful people, rogues are.

Beyond that, limited resources include hit points / Hit Dice and consumable equipment.

[Spiritchaser]

A first level group with the *right* mix and tactics can absolutely wreck standard encounters... and the reverse is true as well

Try and throw a few calibration fights at the party before the proverbial goblin ambush... just to see how many goblins there should be.

I have a party who stealths through everything... sure they mess up the rolls sometimes, and a few foes have very strong perceptive defences, but for the most part they earn way over their pay grade by virtue of being ready for most fights, and by getting a lot of surprise rounds, which means a lot less healing is needed, and a lot fewer rests.

These players aren't particularly optimized... yet... and other than stealth, their tactics are... very hot and cold...

Optimized builds, optimized party or optimized tactics could lead to similar variations in power so yea... poke at them lightly at first.

[Corsair14]

Low levels get trounced very easy. In the campaign my new group played over the last two weeks, we got TPK'd in the intro with the DM throwing in extra potions of healing. When the DM is critting over and over again and the PCs fumble half the time its very easy to lose a party even to simple goblins.

[Demonslayer666]

Low levels get trounced very easy. In the campaign my new group played over the last two weeks, we got TPK'd in the intro with the DM throwing in extra potions of healing. When the DM is critting over and over again and the PCs fumble half the time its very easy to lose a party even to simple goblins.

The GM screen is a wonderful tool to help make adventuring both fun and challenging. That 20 the DM just rolled against the last standing party member with one remaining HP, magically becomes a 1. He smashes the face of his companion, and the goblins break rank and flee, screaming about how bob got possessed by a demon.

If that's how you like your games to end, that's cool, I'm just offering of a solution to starting over to the OP. :smallsmile:

[mephnick]

The GM screen is a wonderful tool to help make adventuring both fun and challenging. That 20 the DM just rolled against the last standing party member with one remaining HP, magically becomes a 1. He smashes the face of his companion, and the goblins break rank and flee, screaming about how bob got possessed by a demon.

If that's how you like your games to end, that's cool, I'm just offering of a solution to starting over to the OP. :smallsmile:

Be careful with this. I would stop playing if I knew the DM was fudging rolls.

It's pretty hard to prove most of the time, but it can be pretty obvious if you go overboard.

[Yora]

The problem is that players get used to never failing until at some point they no longer expect that it could ever happen to them. Even if they don't think about why it happens, it will lead to a very different game than one in which the players worry about odds of survival and using reconnaissance and retreats.
You have to let them them fail occasionally and in unpredictable situations to keep them on edge. And the best way to avoid a pattern is to just go with what the dice show.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Yeah. At low levels, I think the RAW is spot on. The PCs' lives are precarious and there's plenty of ways you can put them in danger. Partly I think that's a response to 4e, where low level characters were too durable.

I'm quite a gentle DM and the game I'm running at the moment is consciously intended to be lighthearted and skewed towards social encounters... and I still end up knocking PCs unconscious occasionally. So I wouldn't worry too much about it, basically. It'll work out.

[Demonslayer666]

Be careful with this. I would stop playing if I knew the DM was fudging rolls.

It's pretty hard to prove most of the time, but it can be pretty obvious if you go overboard.

The DM builds the entire world and caters the adventure towards you, and you'll quit over a roll of the dice? :smallconfused:

Loosing to bad tactics is one thing, but losing to luck is really no fun (for us). We like a good challenge, and as DM I feel it's my job to challenge the party. Losing a character here and there is acceptable, but avoiding the TPK.


The problem is that players get used to never failing until at some point they no longer expect that it could ever happen to them. Even if they don't think about why it happens, it will lead to a very different game than one in which the players worry about odds of survival and using reconnaissance and retreats.
You have to let them them fail occasionally and in unpredictable situations to keep them on edge. And the best way to avoid a pattern is to just go with what the dice show.

I would say a near total party wipe is a failure, just not quite as bad as starting over. It's a viable option. As is robbing the party instead of killing them.

If it's not for you, don't. :smallcool:

[BW022]

What does that mean in practice? Can most monsters be taken on by third level and any real threat comes from large enemy numbers? How many regular orcsand goblins would a 5th level party be able to beat?


Creating appropriate combat encounters is a mixture of numbers, DM skill, and luck.

At higher levels, 5th+... numbers actually tend not to scale well. It tends to become rock-paper-scissors. 40 orcs will against a 5th-level party will go one of two ways -- either the party will have a fireball (or other large area spell) and the orcs will be quickly blasted to bits, or it will be a long boring combat. Remember that PCs average say 60 seconds per initiative and even the quickest monsters take say 15 seconds (deciding on actions, moving figures, rolls, damage, tracking damage against them, etc.). This means a combat with 40 orcs takes 15 minutes per round. If the PCs kill 5 orcs per round... it still takes well over an hour to run the combat.

If you must run larger numbers of creatures, I recommend using waves. Three waves of 14 orcs will run faster than one massive wave of 40.

[djreynolds]

If battle is going easy, the enemy has reinforcements.

If battle is going badly, some of the enemy leave to fortify somewhere else.

We just had our butts handed to us by a black pudding, not every player reads the MM.

A 5th level caster might have, might have an 18 in their casting stat. There is no reason why a group of orcs know or don't know to keep spread out and not bunch. Monsters can roll arcana checks, monsters might know what a fireball is or may not.

At 5th level is where the PCs start to take off in terms of power. I play it by ear.

What do the players want from the game? How long is this campaign? Hack and slash is fun, and perhaps that is all the want.

What is the party make-up, in terms of needing long and short rests?

[CaptainSarathai]

I've heared that AC and attack bonuses increase only very slightly and so much weaker enemies are still able to occasionally hit characters that already got a good number of levels. Looking at the MM, most monsters seem to be of a low CR of 3 or under, and a single creature of equal CR is supposed to be no real threat to a party.
Your DMG has monsters listed by CR on pg306. There are 227 of CR3 or less (not counting CE0 "noncombatants") and there are 185 of CR4 and above. The split is not that large. The problem in encounter design is actually more about creating believable monster ecologies, since anything easily "grouped" tends to be lower level. There's nothing akin to a "Hobgoblin army" after CR3.
That said - you're right that a low CR monster can still hit the party at any level.
Wizards released a better and easier system for setting up encounters, in the UA releases (hooray, FREE). It can be found here:
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/encounter-building

Anyway, it agrees that a solo monster of equal CR should be no threat to a party of 4, equally levelled characters. However it also accounts for "action economy", which is the real crux of writing a good encounter.


What does that mean in practice? Can most monsters be taken on by third level and any real threat comes from large enemy numbers? How many regular orcsand goblins would a 5th level party be able to beat?
Action Economy, is what it means.
Using the charts provided, a party of 4, 5th level characters could take on 20 CR1/2 Orcs. But think about that fight:
Your 5th level Fighter with Con16 has 49hp. With Str18 and a Greatsword, he's packing 2 attacks at 11 damage each.
Your run-of-the-mill Orc has exactly 15hp. He deals 9 damage on his 1 attack.
So up against 5 Orcs, you get:

Rnd1 -
Fighter: 2 attacks + Action Surge = 33 damage (2 dead Orcs)
3 Orcs: 27 damage
Rnd2 -
Fighter: 2 attacks = 22 damage (1 dead Orc)
2 Orcs: 18 damage (Fighter down to 4hp)
Rnd3 -
Fighter: 2 attacks = 22 damage (1 dead Orc)
1 Orc: 9 damage (Fighter is KO'd)

Obviously, we didn't include To Hit chances. The Orcs are AC13, the Fighter is at least AC16.
The Fighter also has Second Wind to recover D10+5 hitpoints.
So he's likely burned all of his Short Rest abilities in a single fight, and the party likely has some casualties, and might be very close to a TPK if every character can't pull their own weight and face down 5 Orcs.

Compare that to a CR2 Orog, which should go 1v1 with the Fighter. It's got 42HP, AC18, and 2attacls for 10 damage each.
Rnd1-
Fighter: 2 attacks + Action Surge = 33 damage
Orog: 2 attacks = 20 damage
Rnd2-
Fighter: 2 Attacks = 22 damage, Orog dead

So here it's clear that the Orog is the easier fight, despite being "on budget" just like the Orcs.
The reason is, all of its HP are in a single target, and it does less damage per round than 5 Orcs. The Fighter can kill an Orc per turn, but has 7pts of "overkill" lost.
The Orogs also have the disadvantage of not being able to "focus down" the party. They are 1:1, so if they all gang up on the Fighter, the rest of the party just surrounds them and lends a hand. Unlike the Orcs, who could send 2-3 guys to occupy/kill the squishy Wizard, and lump 7-8 onto the Foghter and wreck him.

This happens in reverse if the Characters outnumber the monsters. That's why a single CR3 monster is no threat to the party. It might drop one member of the party, but they're going to focus-kill it just like the Orcs handled that Fighter.


I am thinking about a campaign with heroes who are very competent but don't casually sweep aside bandits and guards that outnumber them three to one. Does this work only at the lowest levels or do PC remain somewhat more humble with a need for caution until higher levels?

They do need to stay cautious all the way up. Eventually, fights become huge if you just stick with low-level creatures, but that's when you start adding stuff like leaders and "pets." Or make the fights harder by handicapping the players (to get to the Orcs, you must cross a deep river - oh, and they will be throwing javelins at you while you swim over there)

I'm gearing up for a potential campaign starting at 5th level, based on the return of the Grodd Goblins to attack Cormyr. We've also got a whopping seven players. So if I wany to throw Hobgoblins (CR1/2) at them, that means running 35 monsters on the table, in a fight that will take over an hour.
So instead, I have fights like this:

1 Hobgoblin Captain: CR3
2 Bugbears: CR2
4 Goblins riding Worgs: CR3
4 Goblin archers: CR1
8 Hobgoblins: CR4

That's half as many monsters to move around (Worgs+Riders move as 1) and it's a very challenging encounter that I plan to run on a fresh Short Rest on the back half of an adventuring day.


Bear in mind that you don't have to fight every battle on "hard mode." Part of what makes D&D great, is that you can whittle the party down over time. Hit them with a few easier encounters just to draw out spell-slots and other "per Long Rest" resources, healing potions, etc. Then throw them a more challenging fight.
My current DM is very new, and running LMoP without accounting for the 2-3 extra players at the table. We're going through most dungeons without stopping to rest, and it nearly got the Fighter killed thanks to our Healers running out of juice and him not having 2nd Wind and Action Surge left. Had we been rested, we would have demolished that encounter.


Eventually, it's going to happen - mortal concerns are of little consequence to a high-level party on the brink of godhood. So, what's to stop them from just teleporting the town guard to a pocket dimension as soon as they attempt an arrest? Why negotiate with Bandits when you can just nuke them all to ruin before lunchtime?

Remember that your fights are part of a living, breathing world - it should feel like it. Just like in the GTA games; it can be fun to blow up a squad car, but once you do, they send the whole squad. Then, if you dont surrender, they send in SWAT, choppers, and evemtually bring out the big guns like tanks.
If your party kills a guard, send a posse. If they take out the posse, put a high-level order of Paladins on their tail. Have villagers fear them and treat them like outlaws- boarding up shops and alerting authorities as soon as they come into town.
If they kill a bandit gange, have the crime-lord be a greedy Red Dragon, or a similarly high-ranking foe. Maybe someone sends Doppelganger assassins after them, or casts a powerful Curse over the party.

Nothing is a vacuum. If the PCs start knocking on the doors of godhood, they should expect the gods to come answering.

[Yora]

I was mostly concerned about PCs pretty much storming a castle all by themselves. But with organized enemies with disciplined responses to intruders, avoiding fights could still become somewhat important. Unless it's exploring a big dungeon with spread out and unconnected creatures, most attacks on guarded places will have to be done all in one go. If the party retreats and comes back a day later, reinforcements might have arrived or the thing or person they were looking for moved to a different place.
I normally wouldn't want to replace standard mooks with elite units for higher level adventures, but in case of the enemies knowing that the party is attacking and knowing what they came for, it'd still be very believable that the small number of elite units are pulled together to guard the room the party is heading for, and then it will get really hard for them.

Good idea. When thinking about the amount of enemies the party can fight, it's not just each single encounter but all the encounters combined that determine how much the players are able to blaze through the front gate.

[djreynolds]

I was mostly concerned about PCs pretty much storming a castle all by themselves. But with organized enemies with disciplined responses to intruders, avoiding fights could still become somewhat important. Unless it's exploring a big dungeon with spread out and unconnected creatures, most attacks on guarded places will have to be done all in one go. If the party retreats and comes back a day later, reinforcements might have arrived or the thing or person they were looking for moved to a different place.
I normally wouldn't want to replace standard mooks with elite units for higher level adventures, but in case of the enemies knowing that the party is attacking and knowing what they came for, it'd still be very believable that the small number of elite units are pulled together to guard the room the party is heading for, and then it will get really hard for them.

Good idea. When thinking about the amount of enemies the party can fight, it's not just each single encounter but all the encounters combined that determine how much the players are able to blaze through the front gate.

What is the party make-up?

Do they understand, or do you cue them about short resting?

For fighters, monks, and warlocks... its a big deal. And just for saving on healing spells.

Some DM use the 5 min rules, somewhere in the DMG, where a short rest is considered 5 minutes, instead of an hour. A breather, gear check, ammo count, etc.. I like it in fast paced games. It will allow casters not be so hampered, if players can grab a 1d8, here an there.

And just roll for random patrols, you can force all party members to make a stealth to check to hide from guards behind the tapestry. I'll make players with medicine checks roll, and if they roll high PCs can use more than 1 hit die on this quick break.

[Herobizkit]

A very short generalization:
At low level (1-3), given a party of 4 'average' PC's, said party can take one creature matching their CR and have a fair chance of losing one to KO by lucky rolls/high damage on the enemy's part.

This is why there are so many "less than 1" CR creatures (creatures with 1/2 or 1/4 CR, for example) - they're intended to be fought in easy-to-kill groups to match low-level parties (two CR 1/2 or four 1/4 creatures would be roughly a CR 1 encounter).

It's not an exact science, but it's a great guideline for determining a mostly fair challenge.

[beargryllz]

In general, numbers count. A TPK might actually be more likely on a group of 3 lvl 3s than a group of 6 lvl 1s, simply because of the numbers advantage. This is probably why modules have recommended level ranges for various party compositions.

My best advice is to not throw real combat encounters with overwhelming numbers against a low level party.

[2D8HP]

My "gut" tells me the way to go is:

Using the "longer long rests" varient (DMG pg.267) .., since 5e's "short rest" healing seems to be the biggest thing to make PC's over-powered, and that breaks verisimilitude.
Except.... before 5e I'd only played TSR D&D, and I've never played any other WotC D&D, so I'm finding the novelty of having most of my PC's surviving to reach 2nd level extremely gratifying!
If you cautious and clever players sure, don't give them any breaks, but if you have numbskulls like me:

IIRC-
To illustrate how this played out, the scene:
A dank almost crypt like basement/garage during the waning years of the Carter Administration, two pre-teens and some teenagers surround a ping pong table, that has books, papers, dice, pizza and sodas on it
Teen DM (my best friends older brother): You turn the corner, and 20' away you see the door shown on the map.
Teen player (who thinks he's all that because he's been playing longer than me with the LBB's, but does he have the new PHB and DMG? No! So who's really the "Advanced" one huh!): With the lantern still tied to the ten foot pole, I slowly proceed forward observing if they are any drafts from unexpected places. You (looks at me) check the floor with the other pole.
Me (pre-teen): Oh man it's late, are we even getting into the treasure room today!
Teen player: You've got to check for traps!
Me: I run up and force the door open!
DM: Blarg the fighter falls through the floor onto the spikes below.
*rolls dice*
Your character is dead.
Teen player: Dude you got smoked!
Me: Look at my next character. I rolled a 15 for Strength.
DM: Really?
Me: Yeah, Derek totally witnessed me rolling it up!
DM: Did he?
Derek (my best friend, another pre-teen who invited me to the game): Are you gonna eat that slice of pizza?
Me: No.
Derek: Yeah I totally saw it.
*munch*
Me: See!
DM: *groan*
:smallwink:

In memory of my best friend, Derek Lindstrom Whaley, who in 6th grade saw me reading the blue book and invited me to play D&D at his house - R.I.P., maybe keep it easy on the PC's.
Perhaps have the first dozen HP's be able to be healed by "short rests", but more than that only longer "long rests" will work?

[Grod_The_Giant]

My impression thus far has been that PCs are generally quite squishy. Foes just one or two levels higher can take out most of your hit points in a single swipe, while often having enough hit points to take one heck of a pounding. They don't stay squished, because of the way death saves work*, but even the medium encounters I've been throwing at my level 3-4 characters often leave one or more guys close to death.



*If you want to make death a little stickier, I'd go back to 3e/4e style negative hit points-- that should put a stop to rubber-band "I'm down/I cast Healing Word" shenanigans.

[Yora]

since 5e's "short rest" healing seems to be the biggest thing to make PC's over-powered, and that breaks verisimilitude.

I actually quite like this. It really puts to rest the idea of meat points nd treats hit points more as stamina. It makes it much more viable to not have a dedicated healer in the group.
It does require a different approach to how much opposition you present for the party and I would rather have smaller numbers of medium threat enemies than large number of weaker enemies several times in a row.

[2D8HP]

I actually quite like this.....Cool!
As I said earlier on this or another thread, I'm really eager to see what 5e DnD with a "Yora" spin looks like.

[Safety Sword]

My impression thus far has been that PCs are generally quite squishy. Foes just one or two levels higher can take out most of your hit points in a single swipe, while often having enough hit points to take one heck of a pounding. They don't stay squished, because of the way death saves work*, but even the medium encounters I've been throwing at my level 3-4 characters often leave one or more guys close to death.



*If you want to make death a little stickier, I'd go back to 3e/4e style negative hit points-- that should put a stop to rubber-band "I'm down/I cast Healing Word" shenanigans.

Anyone who gets put down a second time keeps getting hit until the blood STOPS coming out.

[mephnick]

Anyone who gets put down a second time keeps getting hit until the blood STOPS coming out.

Heck, first time for me depending on how experienced with fighting the enemies are. Healing is common knowledge in the world, a quick shank to put someone down for good is just smart business.

[Corsair14]

Well it only takes an attack to give two death save fails. That's how my character died in the intro, wolf simply continued to maul me since there were no other targets available on their feet.