New player looking for a bit of help to make a buffer wizard

[Zhepna]

Hi to everybody,

I’m a new player and looking for a bit of help. I played 3 session of 5e edition and we start a new game in 3.5. I never played 3.5 and we start lvl 3, will roll stat and we have access to all the published material. I want to play a wizard that buff the party and to a lesser extent, debuff the opponent. I read playing god and batman guides but still have questions. I want to make my party to feel awesome but don’t want to break the game.
For the moment, I think about this build:

Wizard 3(domain transmutation) /War Weaver5/Incantatrix10
Fire elf (Elven Generalist variant from Races of the wild)

Wizard 1 Domain Wizard - transmutation (of Unearthed Arcana)

Feat 1 from flaw : Improved Initiative
Feat 2 from flaw Extend (to take persist later)
Level 1: Feat Collegiate Wizard Bonus feat from wizard: Enlarge Spell (needed to take war weaver)Wizard, [Summon Familiar: Octopus]
3: Feat: Sanctum Spell
4: [Eldritch Tapestry I], Caster level lost
5: [Eldritch Tapestry II], [Quiescient Weaving I]
6: [Eldritch Tapestry III], Feat: Iron Will, [Quiescient Weaving II]
7: [Eldritch Tapestry IV], [Quiescient Weaving III]
8: [Eldritch Tapestry V], [Enlarged tapestry], [Quiescient Weaving IV]
9: [Extend Spell], Reserves of Strength, [Oppose Illusion]
I’ll check after that for the Incantatrix part, I have a lot to master until then.

Question 1) I saw online someone suggesting [Improved Grapple], Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat at level 1 for this kind of character but I don’t understand the utility. Is there something I’m missing?

Question 2) I have a hard time figuring which spell to select to buff my allies. I found a list of the spell that can be affected by Eldritch Tapestry but I don’t know how to check if I’ll be able to apply another effect with Incantatrix. Like, could I cast Enlarge, with persist, to all my allies?

Questions 3) I saw on a forum that if I apply Sanctum spell to a first level spell, it could as a zero level spell. When I look at the text of Sanctum spell, I have a hard time figuring how to calculate the impact on, let’s say Enlarge person.
A sanctum spell has an effective spell level one level higher than normal if cast in your sanctum (see Special, below)--but if not cast in the sanctum, it has an effective spell level one level lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (such as save DCs or the ability to penetrate a minor globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the adjusted level. A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats.
It seems there’s no drawnback, making the spell better because I can put it on a spell slot lower than before. Am I missing something?

Question 4) It’s my first time playing 3.5. Do I have to apply the Metamagic when I prepare my spells at the beginning of the day or can I wait until I cast them to apply them. From what I understand, I have to choose when I prepare my spells but I want to make sure.

Question: 5) I’ll have a Caster level lost when I’ll enter War Weaver. Does it means I just stay with all the sames spells I have before? Can I gain spell but from the same level? I found nothing on this.

Question 6) I saw people suggesting Octopus for the familiar. My 3rd lvl ability Natural Link, double the effect of most familiar but even if I check it at page 276 of the monster manuel, I can’t find what benefit it gives me. Where may I find the information?

Question 7) If I stop taking level in wizard domain after lvl 3, will I still gain the level linked with this domain as I level? By exemple, will I be able to have haste free with the domain later?

Sorry for the text of wall, I made a lot of research and trying to build something cool even if I’m new.

Thanks a lot in advance for the information and your time.

[Nifft]

Ask your DM if Sanctum Spell:
a) is allowed at all; and
b) allows early PrC entry in this game.

Elf Generalist and Domain Wizard both claim to take the place of specialization, so you should also check if it's legal to take both.

At level 1 you don't get a choice of bonus Wizard feat: you get Scribe Scroll, or you can trade that for a Fighter bonus feat. (Note that Improved Initiative is a Fighter bonus feat so you could shuffle to get what you want at level 1.)

== == ==

Just in case early entry tricks don't work, I'd suggest you look into:

Wizard 5 (and Spontaneous Divination at 5th)
Incantatrix 3
War Weaver 5
Incantatrix +(whatever you have left).

Don't ban Illusion. There are some fantastic buffs which are Illusions: Mirror Image, Displacement, Greater Invisibility.

Instead, ban Evocation. (Take Craft Contingency to compensate.)

== == ==


Question 1) I saw online someone suggesting [Improved Grapple], Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat at level 1 for this kind of character but I don’t understand the utility. Is there something I’m missing? For a Transmuter, maybe Polymorph fun? I dunno, you'd need more context.


Question 2) I have a hard time figuring which spell to select to buff my allies. I found a list of the spell that can be affected by Eldritch Tapestry but I don’t know how to check if I’ll be able to apply another effect with Incantatrix. Like, could I cast Enlarge, with persist, to all my allies? I think yes.


Question 4) It’s my first time playing 3.5. Do I have to apply the Metamagic when I prepare my spells at the beginning of the day or can I wait until I cast them to apply them. From what I understand, I have to choose when I prepare my spells but I want to make sure. You're a Wizard, so you must apply Metamagic and pay the level increase cost when you prepare your spells.


Question: 5) I’ll have a Caster level lost when I’ll enter War Weaver. Does it means I just stay with all the sames spells I have before? Can I gain spell but from the same level? I found nothing on this. You don't gain free level-up spells that level. You can still buy scrolls & scribe them.


Question 7) If I stop taking level in wizard domain after lvl 3, will I still gain the level linked with this domain as I level? By exemple, will I be able to have haste free with the domain later? It's a variant rule. You would in my game, but ask your DM.

[Mordaedil]

I think LogicNinja's old Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman) guide is still useful for this, even if a bit old and outdated.

At least it gives a good start.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Hi to everybody,

I’m a new player and looking for a bit of help. I played 3 session of 5e edition and we start a new game in 3.5. I never played 3.5 and we start lvl 3, will roll stat and we have access to all the published material. I want to play a wizard that buff the party and to a lesser extent, debuff the opponent. I read playing god and batman guides but still have questions. I want to make my party to feel awesome but don’t want to break the game.
For the moment, I think about this build:

Wizard 3(domain transmutation) /War Weaver5/Incantatrix10
Fire elf (Elven Generalist variant from Races of the wild)

Wizard 1 Domain Wizard - transmutation (of Unearthed Arcana)

Feat 1 from flaw : Improved Initiative
Feat 2 from flaw Extend (to take persist later)
Level 1: Feat Collegiate Wizard Bonus feat from wizard: Enlarge Spell (needed to take war weaver)Wizard, [Summon Familiar: Octopus]
3: Feat: Sanctum Spell
4: [Eldritch Tapestry I], Caster level lost
5: [Eldritch Tapestry II], [Quiescient Weaving I]
6: [Eldritch Tapestry III], Feat: Iron Will, [Quiescient Weaving II]
7: [Eldritch Tapestry IV], [Quiescient Weaving III]
8: [Eldritch Tapestry V], [Enlarged tapestry], [Quiescient Weaving IV]
9: [Extend Spell], Reserves of Strength, [Oppose Illusion]
I’ll check after that for the Incantatrix part, I have a lot to master until then.

Looks mostly fine. Nifft -may- be right about the wizard bonus feat, though I'd swear I recall something opening it up to the usual wizard bonus feat options. It's a non-issue for the reasons nifft listed, in any case.

He's also right about illusion as a school though I'd suggest losing enchantment rather than evocation. Screwing with enemy minds can be powerful and hilarious but it's -really- easy to find yourself dealing with a foe with a hard-counter to the whole school, e.g. anything mindless, undead, or warded with protection from <alignment>.


Question 1) I saw online someone suggesting [Improved Grapple], Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat at level 1 for this kind of character but I don’t understand the utility. Is there something I’m missing?

Not unless I'm missing it too. Grappling is a gish thing and you seem to be going with a more classical spell-slinger of a wizard.


Question 2) I have a hard time figuring which spell to select to buff my allies. I found a list of the spell that can be affected by Eldritch Tapestry but I don’t know how to check if I’ll be able to apply another effect with Incantatrix. Like, could I cast Enlarge, with persist, to all my allies?

IIRC, the incantatrix ability to apply metamagics after casting can be applied to any persistent spell effect, which would include anything from your tapestry. That's a yes, btw. You -can- both enlarge and persist any buffs you place as long as you can make the spellcraft check.


Questions 3) I saw on a forum that if I apply Sanctum spell to a first level spell, it could as a zero level spell. When I look at the text of Sanctum spell, I have a hard time figuring how to calculate the impact on, let’s say Enlarge person.

It seems there’s no drawnback, making the spell better because I can put it on a spell slot lower than before. Am I missing something?

You are. The spell is treated as one level lower, outside of your sanctum, for all purposes but still take up a slot of the same level. Inside your sanctum it's counted as a level higher in the same way but still takes up a slot of the normal level. The advantage is that the former allows you to qualify for a PrC that requires the ability to cast a spell of X level two levels earlier than you otherwise might. It's actually not that great outside of this use unless you expect to spend a -lot- of time in your sanctum. (pro-tip: you probably won't.)


Question 4) It’s my first time playing 3.5. Do I have to apply the Metamagic when I prepare my spells at the beginning of the day or can I wait until I cast them to apply them. From what I understand, I have to choose when I prepare my spells but I want to make sure.

You -do- have to apply metamagic when you prepare spells but that doesn't necessarily have to be at the beginning of the day. A particular up-shot of being a wizard is that you can leave slots open at the beginning of the day to fill them later on as you need them. At any point during the day, you can fill up to 1/4 of your open slots with 15 minutes of preparation. Mind, open and expended are -not- the same thing. You still only get one allotment of spells per 8 hours of rest.


Question: 5) I’ll have a Caster level lost when I’ll enter War Weaver. Does it means I just stay with all the sames spells I have before? Can I gain spell but from the same level? I found nothing on this.

You gain -none- of the things associated with your wizard casting on the first level war-weaver. You stay as you were the level before in that regard. The sacrificed level is just part of the price of the PrC's shiny class features.


Question 6) I saw people suggesting Octopus for the familiar. My 3rd lvl ability Natural Link, double the effect of most familiar but even if I check it at page 276 of the monster manuel, I can’t find what benefit it gives me. Where may I find the information?

Octopus as a familiar was listed in Stormwrack. IIRC, it gives a grapple bonus.


Question 7) If I stop taking level in wizard domain after lvl 3, will I still gain the level linked with this domain as I level? By exemple, will I be able to have haste free with the domain later?

Since the domain mechanic is modifying the normal proccess by which your spellcasting advances, PrC levels that advance your casting do not interfere with you gaining the domain spells or the +1 CL that applies to their casting.


Sorry for the text of wall, I made a lot of research and trying to build something cool even if I’m new.

Thanks a lot in advance for the information and your time.

NP. Everybody was new once.

[Zhepna]

Thanks a LOT to everybody for your answers, it's really appreciated.

My dm told me that I cannot use sanctum spell but he allow Elf Generalist and Domain Wizard. Ill follow your advice and do Wizard 5 (and Spontaneous Divination at 5th)
Incantatrix 3
War Weaver 5
Incantatrix +

Question 1) You advice to take Spontaneous Divination as the feat gained at fifth level and I wonder if I can do it if I'm a generalist elf. At 5th lvl it says:
Bonus Feat: The elf wizard gains a bonus feat from the following list: Defensive Archery, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, or weapon Focus (Longbow, shortbow,composite long/short bow). The wizard must still meet all prerequisites for the feat.

Since they seems bad for me (point blank shot seems to apply to ray but that's about it), it could be could to take Spontaneous Divination.

Question 2)
I don't know how to quote but when you says:
'At level 1 you don't get a choice of bonus Wizard feat: you get Scribe Scroll, or you can trade that for a Fighter bonus feat. (Note that Improved Initiative is a Fighter bonus feat so you could shuffle to get what you want at level 1.)'
I found nowhere in the book that I can take a fighter bonus feat instead of scribe scroll. So, to be sure I understand well, can I remove scribe scroll from the build and take Improved Initiative instead of it? It's really cool if I can do it since I'm short of feat. I don't really now if scribe scroll is that useful since I never played yet. We meet tonight to build the char.

For the moment, this is the build:

Wizard domain5/Incantatrix 3/Warweaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4
Fire elf (Elven Generalist variant from Races of the wild)

Feat lvl 1: Enlarge Spell,
Free feat (wizard) : Scribe Scroll
Bonus feat for flaw 1 : Improved Initiative ( Collegiate Wizard or Alacritous Cogitation or I can put Improved Initiative in bonus feat lvl 1)
bonus feat for flaw 2 : Extend Spell


Lvl 1 Wizard Domain Wizard - transmutation (de Unearthed Arcana)
Lvl 2 Wizard
Lvl 3 Wizard Natural Link (SU, voir Elven Generalist), Feat :iron will
Lvl 4 Wizard
Lvl 5 Wizard Point Blank shot (remplacement du feat du wizard lvl 5 par domain variante)
Lvl 6 Incantatrix 1 Feat:persist , ban enchantement
Lvl 7 Incantatrix 2
Lvl 8 Incantatrix 3
Lvl 9 War Weaver 1 -) lose 1 magic lvl
Lvl 10 War Weaver 2 (bonus feat wizard=will choose later)

Question 3) reading guides, it seems they have more feat than me, did I count it right?
Lvl 1
Lvl 1 bonus wizard
flaw 1
flaw 2
lvl 3
lvl 5
incantatrix lvl 1
lvl 10


Thanks again and have a good day.

[Nifft]

Question 1) You advice to take Spontaneous Divination as the feat gained at fifth level and I wonder if I can do it if I'm a generalist elf. At 5th lvl it says:
Bonus Feat: The elf wizard gains a bonus feat from the following list: Defensive Archery, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, or weapon Focus (Longbow, shortbow,composite long/short bow). The wizard must still meet all prerequisites for the feat.

Since they seems bad for me (point blank shot seems to apply to ray but that's about it), it could be could to take Spontaneous Divination. Spontaneous Divination says you trade a Wizard bonus feat for the ability.

Elf Generalist says you pick bonus feats from a different list.

But if you trade the bonus feat for the ability, then you don't care about which list the feat would have been chosen from. That's my logic anyway, and I allow it when I'm the DM.

I really like Spontaneous Divination, especially for beginners. Otherwise, you have to guess if you'll need see invisibility or scorching ray. With Spontaneous Divination, you just never prepare any Divinations, and cast any that you need as you go.


Question 2)
I don't know how to quote but when you says:
'At level 1 you don't get a choice of bonus Wizard feat: you get Scribe Scroll, or you can trade that for a Fighter bonus feat. (Note that Improved Initiative is a Fighter bonus feat so you could shuffle to get what you want at level 1.)'
I found nowhere in the book that I can take a fighter bonus feat instead of scribe scroll.

It's from the SRD (via Unearthed Arcana, a book of variant 3.5e rules): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard

It's the same place that Flaws come from, so if you're allowed to use Flaws, then it's likely that you're also allowed to use variant class features from the same source. (But as always, do ask your DM.)


For the moment, this is the build:

Wizard domain5/Incantatrix 3/Warweaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4
Fire elf (Elven Generalist variant from Races of the wild) Not bad, but I like Incantatrix 4+ better than Spellguard.

Also, note that Spellguard requires the Combat Casting feat which is not a good feat. Finally, I dislike the idea that a PC has an obligation to serve in the military of a small city-state 2 days out of every 10 (which limits your ability to travel) -- that is a requirement for Spellguard.


Lvl 1 Wizard Domain Wizard - transmutation (de Unearthed Arcana)
Lvl 2 Wizard
Lvl 3 Wizard Natural Link (SU, voir Elven Generalist), Feat :iron will
Lvl 4 Wizard
Lvl 5 Wizard Point Blank shot (remplacement du feat du wizard lvl 5 par domain variante)
Lvl 6 Incantatrix 1 Feat:persist , ban enchantement
Lvl 7 Incantatrix 2
Lvl 8 Incantatrix 3
Lvl 9 War Weaver 1 -) lose 1 magic lvl
Lvl 10 War Weaver 2 (bonus feat wizard=will choose later)

Question 3) reading guides, it seems they have more feat than me, did I count it right?
Lvl 1
Lvl 1 bonus wizard
flaw 1
flaw 2
lvl 3
lvl 5
incantatrix lvl 1
lvl 10
Almost.

Wizards get a feat at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20, but you stop taking Wizard at level 5, so you don't get a bonus feat at level 10.

Everyone gets a feat at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 (so a feat at level 1, and another feat every 3 levels).

So, you would get NO feat at level 10, but instead you'd get a feat at level 6 and level 9.

[Zhepna]

Thanks for this detailed and fast answer. You're awesome!

[Zhepna]

Hi,

I have 2 new questions:

1) With Spontaneous Divination, can I use it to cast a divination spell that is not my spellbook? Or do I have to learn them, having them in my spellbook before using Spontaneous Divination on them?

2) I want to make sure I counted my spells right. I think I'll take Collegiate Wizard. From my understanding of the skill concerning the spell count, it only add +3 1st-level spell and when I gain a wizard lvl, +2 new spell. If it's the case, I think my maths are ok. Let me know if I'm wrong please.

My intelligence modificator is +6(rolled max intel+bonus for being old giving bonus to 3 stats and malus to 3 other stats)

Character level 3 (without collegiate wizard first)
Spells per day:

Spell level 0: 4+ mage hand from Transmutation domain)=5
Spell level 1: 2+2 from int modifier= 4 + expedious retreat from domain=5
Spell level 2: 1+2 from int modifier+1 generalist wizardry =3 +levitate from domain=5

Spells known:

Start with all level 0 spell
Spell level 1: 3 (base) +6 (int mod +6) +2 (for leveling for lvl 1 to 2)+2 (generalist wizardry give +1 at first level and +1 when I became lvl 2)+1 because I'm old, given by DM=14 + expeditious retreat (from domain)= 15
Spell level 2: 2 (leveling from lvl 2 to 3) +1 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(generalist wizardry))+1 because I'm old, given by DM =4 + Levitate (domain); 5



Character level 3 (with Collegiate Wizard)
Spells per day:

Spell level 0: 4+ mage hand from Transmutation domain)=5
Spell level 1: 2+2 from int modifier= 4 + expedious retreat from domain=5
Spell level 2: 1+2 from int modifier+1 generalist wizardry =3 +levitate from domain=5

Spells known:

Start with all level 0 spell
Spell level 1: 3 (base) +6 (int mod +6) +2 (for leveling for lvl 1 to 2)+2 (generalist wizardry give +1 at first level and +1 when I became lvl 2)+1 because I'm old, given by DM+3 (collegiate wizard)+2 (level de 1 à 2 collegiate wizard)=19 + expeditious retreat (from domain)= 20

Spell level 2: 2 (leveling from lvl 2 to 3) +1 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(generalist wizardry))+1 because I'm old, given by DM+2 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(collegiate wizard) =6 + Levitate (domain); 7

Thanks and have a nice day.

[Andezzar]

Question 1) You advice to take Spontaneous Divination as the feat gained at fifth level and I wonder if I can do it if I'm a generalist elf. At 5th lvl it says:
Bonus Feat: The elf wizard gains a bonus feat from the following list: Defensive Archery, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, or weapon Focus (Longbow, shortbow,composite long/short bow). The wizard must still meet all prerequisites for the feat.

Since they seems bad for me (point blank shot seems to apply to ray but that's about it), it could be could to take Spontaneous Divination.You can avoid the question altogether, if you just take a regular wizard level with the ACF at 5. Just because you took a substitution level at 1st level does not mean you have to take the others (cf. RotW p. 155).


It's from the SRD (via Unearthed Arcana, a book of variant 3.5e rules): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard

It's the same place that Flaws come from, so if you're allowed to use Flaws, then it's likely that you're also allowed to use variant class features from the same source. (But as always, do ask your DM.)
.If your DM says no, just use the Dark Chaos Shuffle instead. Since you are an elf you are a very good candidate for Shun/Embrace the Dark Chaos anyways. What wizard needs all the weapon proficiency feats? Unfortunately you can only do this from level 15 onwards (without help).

[Zhepna]

You can avoid the question altogether, if you just take a regular wizard level with the ACF at 5. Just because you took a substitution level at 1st level does not mean you have to take the others (cf. RotW p. 155).

If your DM says no, just use the Dark Chaos Shuffle instead. Since you are an elf you are a very good candidate for Shun/Embrace the Dark Chaos anyways. What wizard needs all the weapon proficiency feats? Unfortunately you can only do this from level 15 onwards (without help).

Thanks for the informations. Fortunatly, my dm told me yes for this. The only question remaining are the 2 in my last post.

[Andezzar]

1) With Spontaneous Divination, can I use it to cast a divination spell that is not my spellbook? Or do I have to learn them, having them in my spellbook before using Spontaneous Divination on them?The rules do not require you to know the divination spell, but ask your DM if he wants to use the RAW. Otherwise it is just a money problem. Getting more money is a trivial tassk for a wizard.


2) I want to make sure I counted my spells right. I think I'll take Collegiate Wizard. From my understanding of the skill concerning the spell count, it only add +3 1st-level spell and when I gain a wizard lvl, +2 new spell. If it's the case, I think my maths are ok. Let me know if I'm wrong please.

My intelligence modificator is +6(rolled max intel+bonus for being old giving bonus to 3 stats and malus to 3 other stats)The end result of 22 for INT is correct but don't forget that you get a -3 to STR, DEX and CON for being old.



Character level 3 (without collegiate wizard first)
Spells per day:

Spell level 0: 4+ mage hand from Transmutation domain)=5
Spell level 1: 2+2 from int modifier= 4 + expedious retreat from domain=5
Spell level 2: 1+2 from int modifier+1 generalist wizardry =3 +levitate from domain=5Correct



Spells known:

Start with all level 0 spell
Spell level 1: 3 (base) +6 (int mod +6) +2 (for leveling for lvl 1 to 2)+2 (generalist wizardry give +1 at first level and +1 when I became lvl 2)+1 because I'm old, given by DM=14 + expeditious retreat (from domain)= 15
Spell level 2: 2 (leveling from lvl 2 to 3) +1 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(generalist wizardry))+1 because I'm old, given by DM =4 + Levitate (domain); 5



Character level 3 (with Collegiate Wizard)
Spells per day:

Spell level 0: 4+ mage hand from Transmutation domain)=5
Spell level 1: 2+2 from int modifier= 4 + expedious retreat from domain=5
Spell level 2: 1+2 from int modifier+1 generalist wizardry =3 +levitate from domain=5

Spells known:

Start with all level 0 spell
Spell level 1: 3 (base) +6 (int mod +6) +2 (for leveling for lvl 1 to 2) +2 (generalist wizardry give +1 at first level and +1 when I became lvl 2)+1 because I'm old, given by DM+3 (collegiate wizard)+2 (level de 1 à 2 collegiate wizard)=19 + expeditious retreat (from domain)= 20

Spell level 2: 2 (leveling from lvl 2 to 3) +1 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(generalist wizardry))+1 because I'm old, given by DM+2 (for leveling from lvl 2 to 3(collegiate wizard) =6 + Levitate (domain); 7

Thanks and have a nice day.If the DM awarded you that one spell, the numbers seem to be correct