How to build this character.

[MrStabby]

5th edition is sparse in terms of character options, at least compared to editions such as 3.5. Nevertheless I find you can make a decent stab at most character concepts.

I have had a concept in mind for a while that i don't seem to be able to make - or rather I can, but it relies on godly rolls to be effective. I am wondering if there may be better ways.

What I want is an inquisitor of Chauntea. I am picturing a divine investigator sent by the church to find the source of blights, poisonings, harvest failures and general evil and to put a stop to it.

Mechanically what I envisage is a lightly armoured or unarmoured character who is mainly a martial character of some description but with some divine spellcasting for flavour and utility.

I want the character to be an expert on the things they hunt - with religion, arcana and nature skills as well as a great investigation skill.

At the moment my best option seems to be something like a Knowledge cleric/rogue multiclass using expertise in Int skills to pretend to be intelligent and knowledgeable. Rogue works for the combat aspect and even a modest wisdom can let me cast enough cleric spells to feel like a divine agent of the church.

The other option, which is more attractive for a higher level game is aiming for ranger 5, rogue 1, cleric 1. I get the sneaky investigator feel, all the proficiencies, decent enough combat presence and the ranger spell list gives me some of the plant themed spells I feel an agent of Chauntea should have.

Any ideas on how else I could run this? I am sure there must be some kind of lore bard multiclass that could do something similar, but i fear it would lose the martial edge I would like.

[Sigreid]

It sounds to me like you can do everything you're looking for in a Bard.

[MrStabby]

It sounds to me like you can do everything you're looking for in a Bard.

I can certainly do a lot with bard although whilst it is mechanically probably better, it is harder to cover my themes with it.. A valor bard will have to wait till 10th level to get the second set of expertise and to get its first set of magical secrets to cover off the nature theme. It is also less martial than I was ideally looking for (but this I can be a bit more flexible on). The bard spell list covers enough "divine" type spells that I can cover off what I need.

Bard/Paladin might work, with a high dex build - it strengthens the martial theme and the Oath Of Ancients covers some of the nature elements. When I want that second set of expertise I can dip a level of rogue. Again this needs a high level to work well - 5 paladin for the second attack, 3 bard for expertise, and this is just the start. To be honest though it is not going to be possible to get this running below level 6 so it isn't that bad.

[PeteNutButter]

It sounds to me like you can do everything you're looking for in a Bard.

That's the answer to all builds lol.

I'd go hunter ranger. You are hunting after all. Favored enemy bonuses to help you with a lot of the flavor etc.

Can easily throw in some cleric, both wisdom based. Make it knowledge domain if you want. Just one level of rogue for expertise in probably investigation and perception (can't miss key clues).

Stats like 8, 16, 14, 13, 14, 9. V human. Rearrange odd stat for desired half feat.

[DanyBallon]

Would you allow UA? If so, maybe the Rogue: Inquisitive in the Gothic Hero UA (april 2016) could be interresting for your needs. Throw in an accolyte background, and/or a few cleric level.

[JAL_1138]

I know I suggest this MC combo on the boards here so often it's to the point where it's getting silly, but Paladin 2/ Valor Bard X. Take a custom background that gives you Investigation and Nature. Go Vhuman for a free feat and another skill; pick up Arcana. I suggest Polearm Master for the feat to improve combat ability since you're forced into a Strength 13 minimum anyway, but there are a lot of other ways you could go. Observant is really good for an investigator; Ritual Caster (Wizard) is really good for adding extra utility without needing to fill the bard's spells known with them. Sadly Warcaster isn't available at Level 1 by RAW for characters who can't cast spells, and Paladins start without spellcasting, making shield use tricky (which is why I usually don't bother and go with PAM instead). From the Paladin skill list, take Religion and Insight. When you MC into Bard, pick up Medicine (since you investigate plagues and poisonings). When you hit Bard 3 at overall level 5, put Expertise in any two skills you like, likely Investigation and Nature.

Alternatively, just go straight Lore or Valor Bard; you don't get quite as much "martial divine agent" flavor but you have enough divine spells to seem rather cleric-like anyway and you're looking for a lightly-armored character to start with, so a Dex Lore Bard or Dex Valor Bard fits that element much better than the Palabard, which needs heavy armor from the Strength build requirement. Half-elf or Vhuman (Skilled feat) Lore Bard is among the best possible skillmonkeys in the game.

[BigONotation]

Would a Paladin of the Ancients with the right background not cover: martial, related to Chauntea, resistant to the very blights they investigate, proficiency in the skills you want?

[Specter]

I envision Nature Cleric (Chauntea, of course) and Rogue (Assassin, or Inquisitor from UA). Divine spellcasting, great skills, utility, good damage with surprise/ally nearby, basically all you need.

[MrStabby]

That's the answer to all builds lol.

I'd go hunter ranger. You are hunting after all. Favored enemy bonuses to help you with a lot of the flavor etc.

Can easily throw in some cleric, both wisdom based. Make it knowledge domain if you want. Just one level of rogue for expertise in probably investigation and perception (can't miss key clues).

Stats like 8, 16, 14, 13, 14, 9. V human. Rearrange odd stat for desired half feat.

Yeah, if whoever DMs the game allows the new ranger then favoured enemy is even better. Favoured enemy, especially the advantage on Int checks would really fit the theme of the character well. If I were to be able to use this then the conclave choice isn't easy. Beast would be nice to have a companion to help sniff out evil and track things down. Hunter conclave is good, but I think it is best vs large numbers of opponents, but open battle is an area where I see the character being relatively weak. The deep stalker is probably the one to go for - perfect for going into the darkness, nice martial boost from the second attack, proficiency in wisdom saves is important - the character shouldn't be afraid (although being a halfling could cover that).

Given the MADness and the multiclassing, it might be hard to spare the ASI but I would like to pick up the observant feat if I can (although with the stat array you suggested I could boost the 13 (probably Int).

One thing I do like about this is the capacity to learn so many languages: two from a race, one from favoured enemy, two from knowledge cleric. I think the acolyte background could fit as well to give two more. Speaking seven languages sounds kind of cool.

Another think I like is that although many of the great things come online later I feel that using the revised ranger lets me play close to the character i want from the start. Knowledge cleric, rogue and ranger as the first 3 levels would seem like a mess but it actually covers a lot. It sets me up as the source of lore in the party and a great investigator. I have some useful support spells - even bless a couple of times per day will be pulling its weight. In terms of direct combat I will be a little behind but the new ranger abilities at level 1 are good enough to make that first level OK and the bonus sneak attack damage from the rogue is nice. Taking ranger through to 5 levels (at character level 7) would give me plant/nature spells at level 2, the Conclave at 3, enabling me to excel in the dark places of the world. When others would get their second attack I will be a little behind for a couple of levels but the out of combat utility will compensate.

I do feel this could be fun - it seems that the greater favoured enemy (probably fiends to supplement humanoids and undead (yay for language number 8!)) and so on up the ranger path are mechanically good and nicely thematic for the character.

Now I just need to find a DM that will let me use this material.

[MrStabby]

Would a Paladin of the Ancients with the right background not cover: martial, related to Chauntea, resistant to the very blights they investigate, proficiency in the skills you want?



I envision Nature Cleric (Chauntea, of course) and Rogue (Assassin, or Inquisitor from UA). Divine spellcasting, great skills, utility, good damage with surprise/ally nearby, basically all you need.

I can get proficiency in the skills I want. Ideally I am looking for expertise simply because most are Int based and the classes I will be using are not going to prioritise that stat. To be as good as an Int based class at these skills I really need +2 Int bonus +2*proficiency modifier. This is why I suggested Ancients Paladin/Bard, so I could get the expertise I want. Even then I would want investigation, perception, Religion and Arcana hence the desire to dip a level of rogue in as well.

[Biggstick]

I mean, you could just run a straight Dex OotA Paladin. Go Half Elf or Elf, focus on maxing out your Dex first and don't worry too much about maxing out your Cha.

There are plenty of things that are hugely beneficial to what you're trying to do that come from Dex based OotA. Magic Weapon and Find Steed help you utilize any weapon at hand while Find Steed lets you quickly travel to any place your church has called for you to investigate. Misty Step, solid for chasing someone down, Plant Growth, lots of Chauntea flavor in that spell.

You'll be able to grab 5-6 skills depending on racial choices. If you're dead set on getting expertise in certain skills, see if the DM would be willing to work out a custom feat for you. There are quite a few out on homebrew places, but common ones I've seen are half feats that grant +1 to a stat, a skill proficiency, and an expertise'd skill.

[JAL_1138]

I can get proficiency in the skills I want. Ideally I am looking for expertise simply because most are Int based and the classes I will be using are not going to prioritise that stat. To be as good as an Int based class at these skills I really need +2 Int bonus +2*proficiency modifier. This is why I suggested Ancients Paladin/Bard, so I could get the expertise I want. Even then I would want investigation, perception, Religion and Arcana hence the desire to dip a level of rogue in as well.

Trouble is even when going for a Dex build, MCing Paladin with anything forces you into a Str 13 minimum, since you need to meet the MC prereqs of both your starting class and the one you MC into. That keeps you from distributing stats optimally for a Dex build--ideally you'd dump Str to 8 so you could still have decent scores in Dex, Con, and Cha without taking too bad of a hit to Int or Wis.

[MrStabby]

Trouble is even when going for a Dex build, MCing Paladin with anything forces you into a Str 13 minimum, since you need to meet the MC prereqs of both your starting class and the one you MC into. That keeps you from distributing stats optimally for a Dex build--ideally you'd dump Str to 8 so you could still have decent scores in Dex, Con, and Cha without taking too bad of a hit to Int or Wis.

It's true. These are the problems i keep running into. I just need so many stats high.

I need at least moderate Int and unless it is actually high, I will need expertise in a bunch of Int skills. Expertise comes from knowledge cleric, rogue and/or bard. Of these, as i am not going for an armoured guy rogue seems best so I can use dex as an attack stat and it is the requirement for multiclassing. I want cleric spells so that is Cha or Wis needed. So right off I need a casting stat at at least 13, Int at probably at least 12 if I have double prof bonus and an attack stat (dex) that i will want to max.

Spectre's point about the nature cleric might work if only because then I don't need dex as an attack stat (and if I can use some expertise there then stealth needs only a moderate value)

[djreynolds]

Knowledge cleric, gets 2 skills expertise, zone of truth.. good domain spells. And bard, seems a good choice to augment you social skills with your high charisma, grab the actor feat for infiltration.

You could have a rogue/fighter play the bad cop.