Is is OP to give an the EK access to elemental weapon? Your thoughts.

[djreynolds]

An EK is not a GISH, he/she is a fighter using magic to augment his martial fighting skills, both offense and defense. Or maybe that is what a GISH is.

Elemental weapon is a spell that an EK should have. All of your weapon strikes get a damage bonus and it is a 3rd level spell he could get at 13th level. And its concentration.

Any thoughts? This is what I would like to see an EK doing, being able to use his magic to augment his 3-4 extra attacks.

[EvilestWeevil]

No, its only +1 damage and +1d4 damage, and they can never cast the more powerful version of the spell themselves. The EK should have this spell, all it does is add to their diversity.

[DracoKnight]

No, its only +1 damage and +1d4 damage, and they can never cast the more powerful version of the spell themselves. The EK should have this spell, all it does is add to their diversity.

Pretty much this.

[Kane0]

Yeah should he fine. Actually sort of surprised they dont get it

[djreynolds]

How about this idea?

I mentioned on another thread about having this spell, but perhaps elemental or even force type damage, and like the paladin's smite/ improved divine smite. You would use your bonus action to use one of you spell slots to give all your weapon attacks +1 and 1d4 damage per spell slot level.

And as you are 1/3 caster, its not much. And I like the idea of force damage.

[Lollerabe]

Really just give EKs and ATs one additional spell school of their own choice, we did and my EK hasen't broken anything. Plus it opens up for player customization which IMO is always a good thing.

To answer your original question: Go right ahead, elemental weapon isn't all that strong anyway.

[djreynolds]

That's cool, it just feels right.

Many players I find who take EK, basically just want to whack things... but with magic buffs.

[Malifice]

He could always just dip lore bard for 6 levels (a big dip) and get it that way.

As a positive he'll also have higher level spells known, and the Cha to dip paladin 2 and still get 12 levels in fighter.

[djreynolds]

He could always just dip lore bard for 6 levels (a big dip) and get it that way.

As a positive he'll also have higher level spells known, and the Cha to dip paladin 2 and still get 12 levels in fighter.

I would just think a spell like elemental weapon would be an EK's forte.

But a dip in paladin for 2 levels seems a must almost.

I feel for players playing an EK, you are either swinging your sword for 3 attacks with haste or blur running, or casting a spell. Its not a fluid build, I like the archetype, I just like to see short rest dependent powers than long rest spells. Still a fun class.

[Lollerabe]

Obviously it's your table so do whatever you and your players enjoy, we tried giving the EK some homebrew buffs (before I started playing my now lvl 7 EK) that were short rest dependent and they turned out to be unnecessary.

Giving them another school did the trick. I would also be wary of letting them deplete spell slots for more damage, that's very much the Paladins thing.

The thing with EKs (in my experience) is that they feel rather lackluster through the early levels but really hit their stride at lvl 7+, prior to that I felt like a weak battlemaster to be honest.

[djreynolds]

Obviously it's your table so do whatever you and your players enjoy, we tried giving the EK some homebrew buffs (before I started playing my now lvl 7 EK) that were short rest dependent and they turned out to be unnecessary.

Giving them another school did the trick. I would also be wary of letting them deplete spell slots for more damage, that's very much the Paladins thing.

The thing with EKs (in my experience) is that they feel rather lackluster through the early levels but really hit their stride at lvl 7+, prior to that I felt like a weak battlemaster to be honest.

I can always count on your good advice.

I will not allow the paladin stuff, the PC can multiclass if he wishes... that's fair.

I will allow another school and at 13th level access to elemental weapon. Seems good.

[SillyPopeNachos]

It's not OP, but maybe have the knight seek out a Bladesinger from whom to learn the spell

[Specter]

No, but it's not needed at all. At level 13, any decent DM will have given martials a magic weapon, so that +1 from the spell is moot. And the 1d4 is like Divine Favor or Hunter's Mark or Hex, which are all 1st-level spells. So a dip in Cleric/Warlock/Ranger or even Magic Initiate is much better already. I even picked up Magic Weapon with my EK, but in The same session I found a magic scimitar, so I traded it right away.

[DracoKnight]

It's not OP, but maybe have the knight seek out a Bladesinger from whom to learn the spell

How does a Bladesinger know it? Bladesingers are wizards, and it's not on the wizard list.

[djreynolds]

I have played like 4 different EK concepts, an archer type, a wizard/fighter, an arcane trickster/EK, and a tank.

The tank (old fashion) was cool, with protection from evil (blur), mirror image, blade ward (when spell slots diminished) and the shield spell and a touch of cleric, I could tank very well... even better next to the paladin we had. 14 intelligence... thought about taking 2 evocation wizard so I could drop fireballs on myself.

The wizard fighter, sort of worked, initially I went for 5th level EK, but who really cares about the extra attack when you have scaling cantrips (pre SCAG) and chain lightning. It was just an armored wizard in the end.

The archer type was very cool, very arcane archer 11 EK/wizard. Could've grabbed some ranger for other spells

They AT/EK was more of a theory build, but ended up okay basically a nasty shield master type. Medium armor, invisibility, melee havoc.

The archetype is flexible and easily multiclassed, and it seems as with most fighter archetypes what you need to do post 12th level or 14th level.

My issue has always been the spell lists, ranger and paladin have some cool spells, that could or maybe should've been accessible to the EK

[Citan]

No, its only +1 damage and +1d4 damage, and they can never cast the more powerful version of the spell themselves. The EK should have this spell, all it does is add to their diversity.
100% agree, well said.



The archetype is flexible and easily multiclassed, and it seems as with most fighter archetypes what you need to do post 12th level or 14th level.

My issue has always been the spell lists, ranger and paladin have some cool spells, that could or maybe should've been accessible to the EK
Nice summary. ;)

My take about design choice was they made this because they were torn between balance and identity (don't put all these on Wizard list otherwise the Ranger/Paladin will lose key original spells) and simplicity ("so, when you take EK, you can also learn spells from this specific list: ...").

ALthough honestly, I wouldn't be buying the simplicity argument: seeing as how Cleric, Paladin, Druid and Warlock get "added spelllists", I don't figure how it would be that much complex for EK (or AT) to say "ok, you're bound to 2 schools + the following expansion"...

[djreynolds]

100% agree, well said.

Nice summary. ;)

My take about design choice was they made this because they were torn between balance and identity (don't put all these on Wizard list otherwise the Ranger/Paladin will lose key original spells) and simplicity ("so, when you take EK, you can also learn spells from this specific list: ...").

ALthough honestly, I wouldn't be buying the simplicity argument: seeing as how Cleric, Paladin, Druid and Warlock get "added spelllists", I don't figure how it would be that much complex for EK (or AT) to say "ok, you're bound to 2 schools + the following expansion"...

Yes, that's cool.

An EK could take an element, and get a bunch of fire spells, in addition, I'm talking 4-5 spells... fireball, flaming sword, fireshield, scorching ray, flaming sphere, etc.. and then maybe some resistance to fire but be vulnerable to cold.

He could take arcane or magic, and get some stuff that deals force damage.

I like the class, but it can be bland with the spell choices as a good amount are already spoken for.
You have 13 spells.. shield, blur, mirror image, fireball, lightning bolt, haste, fire shield, protection from evil... 5 spells left... levitate, fly... 3 spells left... hold person, hypnotic pattern, ... 1 spell left... stoneskin.

[Spiritchaser]

My only concern would be that a bladesinger EK multiclass with TWF and three attacks plus bonus offhand attack plus hasten could have the high level spell slots to upcast this and with 5 attacks the damage would add up...

Probably still ok because you lose out on so much high level bladesinger/wizard/wizard spell list stuff.