The IFCC's second call

[Lheticus]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the situation will escalate pretty soon to an ideal time for the IFCC to call in their second "time out" they have on V? IF they want the Order to fail here, of course. Which given the circumstances of the first one, well...who knows about that, I guess. Just saying we might be seeing it soon, I think.

[hroþila]

All things considered, the first call happened very recently, and there's still plenty of story left. I don't expect the IFCC to play that card again until the climax of this book or thereabouts.

[Grey Watcher]

But do they WANT the world destroyed? I'm having trouble figuring out what that would get them: if the gods remake the world, there might not BE any Gates to exploit in world 3.0 (since, presumably, they've identified the bug that caused the Rifts in the first place and will fix it for the rerelease).

Whatever their game is, they seem to want it to come to a head at Chez Kraagor. (I suppose if they want to control the Gate themselves, they let Girard's Gate be destroyed to ensure there'd be only one, so they could exploit the Gates without interference from someone doing the same on the other Gate.)

[Hamste]

Plus they obviously didn't want the order to be destroyed when they did the first call. If they did they would have just called V back immediately while the others fought the army. If they work for Hel (and by calling V back that time they manipulated the gate to be destroyed as well as caused Greg to be created. If V was there they and Durkon would have went to find Belkar (as V couldn't really help with the door) which would have been a much harder fight for Malack) in which case it might be reasonable for them to do a recall now. Otherwise I imagine there is very little advantage to the world being destroyed.

[mouser9169]

I don't see the IFCC having too much of an interest in this event.

The giants are a hindrance, but the party won't have too much trouble defeating them, even without V's help. Narratively, my guess is that this encounter will add to the Andi vs Bandana dynamic which will ultimately remove the Mechane from the playing field.

[jidasfire]

Based on dramatic convention, there are two books left (current one included) and two calls left, so we're probably going to get one more in each book. My own personal guess is we're going to see the three minute one happen in this book, most likely toward the end, and the big one in the final arc. If not that, I could see them using both back-to-back in the final arc just for the added treachery.

[factotum]

But do they WANT the world destroyed?

My money's on "no". They obviously snatched V from the pyramid to ensure the Gate would be destroyed, but I think that was to prevent it falling into Xykon's hands rather than destroy the world. We still don't fully know what the IFCC's motives are, though, so I could be entirely wrong on that!

[Goblin_Priest]

I don't see the IFCC having too much of an interest in this event.

The giants are a hindrance, but the party won't have too much trouble defeating them, even without V's help. Narratively, my guess is that this encounter will add to the Andi vs Bandana dynamic which will ultimately remove the Mechane from the playing field.

I wouldn't casually dismiss the giants like this, especially since the last few strips have done nothing but elaborate on just how much of a threat they were. This strip was the talk about how cleric spells could shut down the Mechane, last one was the threat of the engines and the risk of mutiny, a few strips before that was all the talk about turning back and fleeing... Sure, we *also* saw displays of how much more powerful the PCs are than they first were, but giants are still threatening, especially if in large numbers. That natural reach can prove quite treacherous.

Add to this that there are now high level giants to challenge them.

And that the party is, again, split. They didn't learn from their "don't split the party!" book (which I admit to not having read). Haley is no longer invisible, her damage output will now be incredibly low. The giants probably have buffs to protect themselves from many, if not most, of V's spells. Belkar is all alone against countless giants. Roy and Elan are being completely worthless on board the Mechane.

The IFCC could seal the fate of this fight. Will they? I have no idea. We don't know what their agenda is. Last time, they made sure that V couldn't tell Roy to not smash it. But to what ends? Team Evil arrived shortly thereafter... maybe the IFCC doesn't actually want Team Evil to succeed? If they know of the Dark One's plan, there's little reason for them to want to let that happen. But they also wanted V to get Xykon moving out of Gobbotopia...

[dtilque]

if the gods remake the world, there might not BE any Gates to exploit in world 3.0 (since, presumably, they've identified the bug that caused the Rifts in the first place and will fix it for the rerelease).

It's not stated explicitly, but the impression I got was that the rifts were from the minor disagreements between the gods when making World 2.0. Considering that those disagreements may still be there but also add in the Elven gods plus the Dark One getting involved (the DO will want to be involved even if not invited), I would expect even more rifts in World 3.0. However, the gates were just band-aids placed on the rifts by mortals, so it's unlikely there will such in the next interation of the world, at least not at first.


Roy and Elan are being completely worthless on board the Mechane.

Roy and Elan are going to be involved in the resolution of the mutiny sideplot. Not worthless at all.

[Goblin_Priest]

Roy and Elan are going to be involved in the resolution of the mutiny sideplot. Not worthless at all.

The last mechane strip didn't even show Elan and Roy at all.

The strip before that they were trying to dissuade Belkar and telling them to be as useless as them, that's all.

The one before that, Roy was giving instructions that were clearly already the crew's plans, and thus was utterly useless. Elan just gets a short appearance at the end stating the obvious.

And even if they weren't being completely useless by being "involved in the resolution of the munity sideplot", that offers little in the terms of surviving the giant swarm and that they cannot provide any meaningful assistance to the split up party.

[ChillerInstinct]

I still think the shortened call will be used to protect their investment. By which I mean abuse the hell out of the whole "your body is immune to harm while you're with us" part of their deal. If the Order gets Sneak Attacked, V would likely be the first target, and if they had a chance to kill hir right then an--

"Now."

Presumably the attackers would think V died or something, giving hir the element of surprise when the local high-level wizard suddenly reenters the picture in the middle of a heated battle...

[Kish]

I will be very surprised if the IFCC calls in their debt in a way that's to the benefit of Vaarsuvius or the Order.

[Goblin_Priest]

I still think the shortened call will be used to protect their investment. By which I mean abuse the hell out of the whole "your body is immune to harm while you're with us" part of their deal. If the Order gets Sneak Attacked, V would likely be the first target, and if they had a chance to kill hir right then an--

"Now."

Presumably the attackers would think V died or something, giving hir the element of surprise when the local high-level wizard suddenly reenters the picture in the middle of a heated battle...


I will be very surprised if the IFCC calls in their debt in a way that's to the benefit of Vaarsuvius or the Order.

It'd be an interesting twist. They did say they didn't want V to die to Xykon in their duel, right?

[Peelee]

It'd be an interesting twist. They did say they didn't want V to die to Xykon in their duel, right?

Because if V died against Xykon, then all that they did was for nothing. V would have gotten everything he asked for, and the IFCC's plans for V would have come to naught.

[zimmerwald1915]

Because if V died against Xykon, then all that they did was for nothing. V would have gotten everything he asked for, and the IFCC's plans for V would have come to naught.
Well, Nero probably would have ended up with V's soul if she died there. That's just a pretty paltry gain, given the stakes the Directors are playing for.

[LadyEowyn]

If V was dead, then V wouldn't be able to contribute to the Order. Removing V from the Order permanently would have a similar effect to temporarily removing V from the Order three times, except that the Order would have more time to plan around V's absence. (I'm assuming the Order wouldn't be able to find another high-level wizard just sitting around, any more than they were able to find another high-level cleric to replace Durkon.)

I think we're missing something about the fiend's plans. When they took V the first time, it was to prevent him from stopping Roy from destroying the gate. But if V had died fighting Xykon, then neither Roy nor anyone else would have known about the world inside the gate, and Roy would have destroyed the gate anyway. For that situation, V dying while fighting Xykon wouldn't have been a "waste" for the fiends; it would have resulted in the exact same outcome that they got from their first claim.

They've got to be playing for something more than just removing V from the party for a bit of time. I figure there has to be some more "exact words" going on, and we'll get a twist next time they make a claim. Since they said that putting another soul in V's body would be "a gross violation of contract", maybe they can claim V's soul while leaving it still in his/her body and control his/her actions that way? Combining that with shielding V's body from all harm could give them a formidable weapon.

[dtilque]

The last mechane strip didn't even show Elan and Roy at all.

The strip before that they were trying to dissuade Belkar and telling them to be as useless as them, that's all.

The one before that, Roy was giving instructions that were clearly already the crew's plans, and thus was utterly useless. Elan just gets a short appearance at the end stating the obvious.

None of which refute in any way my contention that Roy and Elan are going to be involved in resolving the mutiny sideplot.


And even if they weren't being completely useless by being "involved in the resolution of the munity sideplot", that offers little in the terms of surviving the giant swarm and that they cannot provide any meaningful assistance to the split up party.

Have a bit of faith in V and Haley. They'll take care of the giant clerics in some way or another. They don't need Roy to hold their hands all the time.

[zimmerwald1915]

They don't need Roy to hold their hands all the time.
Don't Split the Party says otherwise.

[factotum]

But if V had died fighting Xykon, then neither Roy nor anyone else would have known about the world inside the gate, and Roy would have destroyed the gate anyway. For that situation, V dying while fighting Xykon wouldn't have been a "waste" for the fiends; it would have resulted in the exact same outcome that they got from their first claim.


No it wouldn't, because they wouldn't have had two more claims on V's time, and the Order might have gone and found another wizard if their first one were dead. Having these claims over V gives them some control over the situation and an ability to react to changing events that they simply wouldn't have if V had died fighting Xykon.

[dtilque]

Don't Split the Party says otherwise.

Not for the short amount of time it will take to overcome the giant clerics. There've been other times when a subset of the order has fought and won battles without Roy there. The most recent being the fight against Crystal Golem.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, combat's the one place the Order can hold it together. Everything other than that...

[Psyren]

I don't see the IFCC having too much of an interest in this event.

The giants are a hindrance, but the party won't have too much trouble defeating them, even without V's help. Narratively, my guess is that this encounter will add to the Andi vs Bandana dynamic which will ultimately remove the Mechane from the playing field.

This. The giants' narrative purpose is to add pressure to an already volatile morale situation aboard the Mechane. If Rich wanted them to be a more serious threat, he wouldn't have had three clerics fail a will save :smalltongue:

[ChillerInstinct]

I will be very surprised if the IFCC calls in their debt in a way that's to the benefit of Vaarsuvius or the Order.

It's more likely than you might think. V and the Order are effectively high-value assets to them right now, even if most of them don't know it. The IFCC effectively has the ability to affect the outcome of any scenario they're involved in-- see Girard's Gate.

More to the point, if V were to die permanently for any reason, they'd lose the return on their investment. Even for a temporary death, without a Cleric on board, V could possibly be dead for a long time. Long enough to miss several windows of opportunity for the IFCC.

Using the short, six minute debt to protect their investment would be smart risk management. The IFCC has a vested interest in the Order's survival so that they can sabotage them down the road.

I don't think it'll happen HERE, of course-- probably sometime closer to the showdown with the HPoH-- but I've got a strong suspicion that it WILL happen in the fullness of time.

[Kish]

Ten gold says it won't.

[littlebum2002]

Ten gold says it won't.

Ahh, you're a Bayesian statistician (https://xkcd.com/1132/)I see.

[zimmerwald1915]

Using the short, six minute debt to protect their investment would be smart risk management.
Are we sure each Director must use his whole allotment of time at once? I don't think we are.

[Grey Watcher]

Are we sure each Director must use his whole allotment of time at once? I don't think we are.

Indeed. We've assumed, and they see no need to correct. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I've wondered about this. Though one tiny bit of weak evidence in favor of the hypothesis that they must each use their allotted time in a single chunk is that they waited until 918 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0918.html) to return V the first time, rather than, say, as soon as the earth shattering krackkakkooooom was all done in 900 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html).

[Peelee]

Indeed. We've assumed, and they see no need to correct. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I've wondered about this. Though one tiny bit of weak evidence in favor of the hypothesis that they must each use their allotted time in a single chunk is that they waited until 918 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0918.html) to return V the first time, rather than, say, as soon as the earth shattering krackkakkooooom was all done in 900 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html).

That may be, but if we're playing Rummy and I have a set in my hand, I don't need to lay it on the table if I think you're going for a run I know you can't get.

I never thought I'd get to make a metaphor in which "playing your cards close to your chest" was literal.

[nleseul]

Are we sure each Director must use his whole allotment of time at once? I don't think we are.

The text we're given describing the deal in #633 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) is "So, maintain all three splices for an hour, your soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates. / Exact order of custody to be determined at a later point."

It seems to strongly imply that they regard each period of custody as a continuous block, but doesn't state it outright.

They did choose to take custody at Girard's Gate for a complete block of 19 minutes when they really only needed a few seconds, but that might be because they don't want V to realize yet that they do reserve the option to split a block of time.

Narratively, I think three continuous blocks are easier to use as plot elements than the possibility of a near-infinite number of brief intervals sprinkled all over the story, so I think that's really the most likely use of the time, regardless of what might technically be allowed by the wording of the deal.

[factotum]

They did choose to take custody at Girard's Gate for a complete block of 19 minutes when they really only needed a few seconds, but that might be because they don't want V to realize yet that they do reserve the option to split a block of time.


I don't see what benefit hiding that information from V would have, though? It's not like he has any power to refuse the summons when it happens, or any way to back out of the deal once he realised the terms weren't favourable to him.

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't see what benefit hiding that information from V would have, though? It's not like he has any power to refuse the summons when it happens, or any way to back out of the deal once he realised the terms weren't favourable to him.
V and Roy planned for two more abductions, one of about 20 minutes in length, one for about five. Imagine their surprise when it turns out, after two slightly-shorter abductions, that two or possibly many more abductions remain.

[Grey Watcher]

V and Roy planned for two more abductions, one of about 20 minutes in length, one for about five. Imagine their surprise when it turns out, after two slightly-shorter abductions, that two or possibly many more abductions remain.

Aloud: "We simply don't need to trick you if we can get what we want by playing it straight."

Thinking: "But tricking you is still a great way to get bonus perks!"

[keybounce]

I think we know what the IFCC's goals are. Maintain the status quo / present system.

They don't want the world destroyed. They don't want anyone to control the gate/snarl.

If the 6 minute possession will protect V's body from harm, and give the order a sneak attack afterwards, you can bet they will do that, if that is what it takes to keep the conflict going.

So what's going to happen at the final gate? We know that there's another world inside, possibly another universe. We know that if someone can control the gate/snarl, bad things happen. We know that if the universe is destroyed and remade, bad things happen. We know that the IFCC doesn't want those to happen.

We know that The Order has to get to point B to prevent a lopsided vote; they are likely to have issues with these giants, in this mountain playground, as well. The predictable nature of this outcome? V out of most of V's spells. When the big battle comes up later, V won't be at full strength, otherwise it would be too easy.

The only thing I could think of that would make the IFCC use a possession now? If V is about to be trampled by a giant from the rear -- and then to prevent damage to the body while taken.

[Goblin_Priest]

I think we know what the IFCC's goals are. Maintain the status quo / present system.

They don't want the world destroyed. They don't want anyone to control the gate/snarl.

If the 6 minute possession will protect V's body from harm, and give the order a sneak attack afterwards, you can bet they will do that, if that is what it takes to keep the conflict going.

So what's going to happen at the final gate? We know that there's another world inside, possibly another universe. We know that if someone can control the gate/snarl, bad things happen. We know that if the universe is destroyed and remade, bad things happen. We know that the IFCC doesn't want those to happen.

We know that The Order has to get to point B to prevent a lopsided vote; they are likely to have issues with these giants, in this mountain playground, as well. The predictable nature of this outcome? V out of most of V's spells. When the big battle comes up later, V won't be at full strength, otherwise it would be too easy.

The only thing I could think of that would make the IFCC use a possession now? If V is about to be trampled by a giant from the rear -- and then to prevent damage to the body while taken.

We don't "know" any of that, though you are free to assume. We don't know their goals, we don't know what they want for the world, we don't know what they want of the snarl, and have not been presented with much evidence to make ourselves an idea about it either. We also don't know what's on the other side of the rift, we don't know if the gate and snarl can truly be controlled, we don't know what will happen if it does, we don't know the if the IFCC wants to avoid the universe being unmade. I also don't think we know that the party will arrive at their final destination before V gets to prepare new spells, and lastly we don't know if they still want V to live at this point and would bother.

We don't know any of that, and all evidence supporting your assumptions are weak and countered by evidence of equal or greater strength. We aren't meant to know at this point, and so Rich hasn't granted us enough information to reliably understand what's going on. Sure we can guess, and odds are at least one person will guess right, but in the end it'll have remained a lucky wild guess.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm pretty sure they don't want the entire multiverse erased, since that'd erase them too. Beyond that, their only known goals are pointless, destructive combat and unifying all the Lower Planes so as to annihilate the Upper Planes (and probably the planes in between, but that's not a given).

[factotum]

we don't know if the gate and snarl can truly be controlled

Given that the spell to achieve this was created by a God, I think we can be reasonably sure the gate can be controlled. The Snarl can't be, of course, since it's a being of pure Chaos, but the intent is only to put the gate into some god's home and let the Snarl do what it does best, so no control of it is necessary.

[Markozeta]

We all know the real purpose of the second call will be to screw up Blackwing. He'll finally do something important and then - "Now". We can all see it.

[wumpus]

But do they WANT the world destroyed? I'm having trouble figuring out what that would get them: if the gods remake the world, there might not BE any Gates to exploit in world 3.0 (since, presumably, they've identified the bug that caused the Rifts in the first place and will fix it for the rerelease).

Whatever their game is, they seem to want it to come to a head at Chez Kraagor. (I suppose if they want to control the Gate themselves, they let Girard's Gate be destroyed to ensure there'd be only one, so they could exploit the Gates without interference from someone doing the same on the other Gate.)

It might be a handy backup plan. They need to kill a ton of metallic dragons to appease Tiamat. If they could claim even a sliver of Hel's kills (and I'm sure the IFCC are masters of such loopholes) they could get Tiamat off their backs while they start operations on the next world the gods create. Expect the IFCC to switch to Hel's side the moment their plans appears to be in danger (they might like the world, but if they can't deliver the dragons for Tiamat nothing in the world can save them).

[archon_huskie]

It might be a handy backup plan. They need to kill a ton of metallic dragons to appease Tiamat. If they could claim even a sliver of Hel's kills (and I'm sure the IFCC are masters of such loopholes) they could get Tiamat off their backs while they start operations on the next world the gods create. Expect the IFCC to switch to Hel's side the moment their plans appears to be in danger (they might like the world, but if they can't deliver the dragons for Tiamat nothing in the world can save them).

Nothing except feeding Tiamat to the Snarl.

[keybounce]

Can you imagine what the Snarl would be like after a meal of Tiamat?

[M Placeholder]

Can you imagine what the Snarl would be like after a meal of Tiamat?

Remember, The Chromatic Dragon Queen is an ally of The Dark One and Rat. Perhaps The Dark One can move the gate to Bahamut and make him the first victim of The Snarl as a favour for Tiamat. 1 Bahamut equals how many Metallic Dragons?

[hroþila]

Remember, The Chromatic Dragon Queen is an ally of The Dark One and Rat.
"Ally" may be too strong a word.

[Kish]

It's the word used in Start of Darkness.

That said, I see no indication that the Snarl was significantly changed in any visible way by the gods it ate before, so there's likely no need to imagine what it would be like after eating Tiamat, if for some reason it ate Tiamat: just look and see (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html).

[zimmerwald1915]

Why are we even talking about the Snarl as if it consumes, rather than annihilates, [the souls of] the beings that approach it? It's never shown or described as consuming anything, always destroying or killing.

[hroþila]

It's the word used in Start of Darkness.
I don't think SoD uses "allies" as in "The gods who would start plotting with the Dark One", but rather as "the gods who defended him when the other gods tried to outright kill him". I.e. I don't think SoD implies the sort of formal alliance the post I was replying to would necessitate.

[hamishspence]

Why are we even talking about the Snarl as if it consumes, rather than annihilates, [the souls of] the beings that approach it? It's never shown or described as consuming anything, always destroying or killing.

"Devouring" sounds pretty similar:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html

[M Placeholder]

I don't think SoD uses "allies" as in "The gods who would start plotting with the Dark One", but rather as "the gods who defended him when the other gods tried to outright kill him". I.e. I don't think SoD implies the sort of formal alliance the post I was replying to would necessitate.

It doesn't have to be a formal alliance. Just a solid from one evil god to another.

[zimmerwald1915]

"Devouring" sounds pretty similar:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html
That's one word (technically two, but I'll get to that), out of a spiel that includes "strike," "destroy," "slay," "execute," "cut," "rain armageddon," and "undo." If all of these are meant to be taken literally, the balance of probabilities is sharply one way. But more likely, Shojo was speaking poetically, embellishing with metaphor.

The crayon art also shows the Snarl tearing, puncturing, crushing, and pulverizing, but not consuming - even though it's drawn with a mouth, claws, and more importantly for the metaphor argument, eyes. Shojo describes them as "hungry." But in the Snarl's actual appearance (where it definitely impales an Empire of Sweat soldier through the chest the same way it did Zeus in the crayon art), its tendrils are not tipped with claws, and its eyes and mouth are nowhere to be seen. At best, for the literal interpretation, they're off panel. More likely, they don't exist and never did.

Finally, it should be noted that even if Shojo is absolutely literal and correct, he only describes the Snarl being "hungry" for and "devouring" mortal souls. Most (but by no means all) of those other descriptive words described what the Snarl did to the Eastern Pantheon and presumably does to gods generally. So if we're talking about Tiamat meeting the Snarl, it's still not appropriate to describe the result as it "eating" her.

[Psyren]

That's one word (technically two, but I'll get to that), out of a spiel that includes "strike," "destroy," "slay," "execute," "cut," "rain armageddon," and "undo." If all of these are meant to be taken literally, the balance of probabilities is sharply one way. But more likely, Shojo was speaking poetically, embellishing with metaphor.

Thing is, "consuming" something and "destroying" it are not mutually exclusive. We use both terms with fire and acid, for example.

Having said that, I don't think the things the Snarl eats/burns/etc would alter it significantly.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Thing is, "consuming" something and "destroying" it are not mutually exclusive. We use both terms with fire and acid, for example.

Having said that, I don't think the things the Snarl eats/burns/etc would alter it significantly.

It's a being of such pure chaos that I find it hard to believe that the Snarl would actually have a digestive tract or any such functions. It grew from inter-deity conflict, remember? Why would mortal bodies and souls fuel it at all?

Something can be "consumed", as detailed above, without deriving any material or nutritional benefit from it. Much as salt is apparently consumed by water by dissolution, the Snarl simply moves things it strikes into a state of greater entropy.

[Snails]

I will be very surprised if the IFCC calls in their debt in a way that's to the benefit of Vaarsuvius or the Order.

I would argue that their first intervention did help both the Order and V, albeit it was a side-effect of a larger plan we do not quite understand. Roy's reasoning was sound and V's well intentioned argument could have only muddied the waters long enough to allow Xykon or Tarquin to seize the Gate. The likely result would have been world annihilation by the gods.

[Snails]

The short glimpse we see of what happened to Laurin I believe qualifies as putting us on notice that our usual ways of interpreting behavior and action may not apply to the Snarl, certainly far less so than those very anthropomorphized gods.

[TheNecrocomicon]

The short glimpse we see of what happened to Laurin I believe qualifies as putting us on notice that our usual ways of interpreting behavior and action may not apply to the Snarl, certainly far less so than those very anthropomorphized gods.

Just as in the other thread, that's not really indicative of anything at this point, since Blackwing was similarly mentally paralyzed upon gazing into the Rift in Azure City, and since that point he has shown absolutely nothing in the way of lingering effects from it. Since Blackwing has humanoid mental faculties, and so does Laurin, the most probable outcome is that the same end result of a full recovery happened to them both. But I guess there are those who won't believe that unless Mr. Burlew explicitly cuts back to the Western Continent to show Laurin's current status, despite how unimportant that is to the actual plotline at this point.

There are no real rules or ways of understanding or dealing with an entity like the Snarl, which is essentially chaos incarnate. It has no plans, no thought, no central mind; it is pure malevolence given form and is more or less a force of nature in the world these characters inhabit.

[Snails]

There are no real rules or ways of understanding or dealing with an entity like the Snarl, which is essentially chaos incarnate. It has no plans, no thought, no central mind; it is pure malevolence given form and is more or less a force of nature in the world these characters inhabit.

Well, there could be rules and ways of understanding the Snarl, but the gods were too scared to try after its demolition of Zeus and friends and the World 1.0. The Scribblers never got around to figuring anything out either. Perhaps the High Priest of the Holey Hole had useful information, but the Scribblers did not bother to ask.

As Redcloak has stated, given the tales of the Snarl's previous behavior, it is surprising the Snarl has not reached out and taken some bites out of Azure Goblin City. The gap over Goblin City looks hundreds of feet wide, after all.

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, there could be rules and ways of understanding the Snarl, but the gods were too scared to try after its demolition of Zeus and friends and the World 1.0. The Scribblers never got around to figuring anything out either. Perhaps the High Priest of the Holey Hole had useful information, but the Scribblers did not bother to ask.

As Redcloak has stated, given the tales of the Snarl's previous behavior, it is surprising the Snarl has not reached out and taken some bites out of Azure Goblin City. The gap over Goblin City looks hundreds of feet wide, after all. Given that the Snarl is a being of Chaos, we ought not assign to it rational thinking modes. Projection, and all that. Who knows why it does what it does in its current condition? Who knows how close you need to get to it to trigger a response? Very few data points so far.

[nleseul]

Well, there could be rules and ways of understanding the Snarl, but the gods were too scared to try after its demolition of Zeus and friends and the World 1.0. The Scribblers never got around to figuring anything out either. Perhaps the High Priest of the Holey Hole had useful information, but the Scribblers did not bother to ask.

As Redcloak has stated, given the tales of the Snarl's previous behavior, it is surprising the Snarl has not reached out and taken some bites out of Azure Goblin City. The gap over Goblin City looks hundreds of feet wide, after all.

I don't think we've actually seen any events in Gobbotopia since the Snarl(?) attacked Laurin in the desert, have we? It's possible it didn't realize the rifts were vulnerable until she started psionically poking it. If that's the case, it might have started spilling out of the Gobbotopia rift too, off-screen. Meaning that there could be a very panicked Jirix trying to get a sending through to Redcloak.

[LadyEowyn]

I don't think we've actually seen any events in Gobbotopia since the Snarl(?) attacked Laurin in the desert, have we? It's possible it didn't realize the rifts were vulnerable until she started psionically poking it. If that's the case, it might have started spilling out of the Gobbotopia rift too, off-screen. Meaning that there could be a very panicked Jirix trying to get a sending through to Redcloak.

I'm quite afraid that's what will happen - if not now, after the conflict at the final gate. There's so much poetic irony in it: the city that exemplifies what Redcloak wanted to achieve for his people being destroyed by his dedication to the Plan and his continued alliance with Xykon.