Dragon Magic Races Guide?

[Meanlucario]

Is there a guide for the races in the book of Dragon Magic? Not it their stats and such, but if they're good or not.

[Exocist]

Well lets see:

Deepwyrm Drow/Half-Drow - About as good as the regulars, which is to say not very good unless you had something specific in mind.

Fireblood Dwarf - If you were planning on playing a Dwarf and needed the Dragonblood type, they're probably alright. +4 AC vs Dragons is probably going to show up a bit more than +4 AC vs Giants (Dragons are cooler).

Forestlord Elf/Half-Elf - See Deepwyrm Drow/Half-Drow. If you needed to play an Elf and wanted dragonblood, they should be fine. E.g. Dragonfire Inspiration Half-Elf Bard.

Stonehunter Gnome - The only reason to play these guys is because you're focusing on Illusions, usually with Shadowcraft mage. Losing the Illusion bonus is bleh, and Wizards usually don't want the dragonblood type anyway (They don't need it for anything).

Glimmerkin Halfling - Just play a Strongheart Halfling.

Sunscorch Hobgoblin - +1 LA, not many bonuses. Do not take.

Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc - These are actually quite good. Don't lose much (Vulnerability to fire lol). Water Orcs are usually better though because of +2 CON.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Viletooth Lizardfolk - They're better than the regulars because they don't lose much (Just 2 STR, but they even out by losing the INT penalty). They would be good if Lizardfolk didn't have the RHD...

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Consensus: Take them if you need Dragonblood (Not like there isn't a million other ways to get this), but otherwise there's usually a racial variant that's better.

[Troacctid]

Also, sometimes you need the class skills, but it should be pretty obvious when that's the case.

[Darrin]

Silverbrow humans: Very good, obviously due to the bonus feat. The feather fall SLA can also be used to qualify for certain caster level requirements. Very useful in a feat-starved build if you want to take advantage of dragonborn-only feats, spells, soulmelds, etc. I also like putting Dragonborn of Bahamut on there because I'm lazy and don't want to recalculate skill points (you can lose any other feat, including armor/shield feats, instead of your human bonus feat).

Frostblood Orcs/Half-Orcs: My favorite, because a huge amount of my builds tend to involve Swift Hunter rangers or TWF, and that Endurance feat becomes the equivalent of a human bonus feat. Even better, add Dragonborn of Bahamut, and you lose the nearly useless Endurance but keep the bonus feat. You also lose the vulnerability to fire, since that's not from a subtype.

Deepwyrm Half-Drow: I use these occasionally if I need to mix Drow and Dragonborn elements. Drow, not so much, unless it's Savage Progression or lesser (no LA) Drow. I seem to recall the hand crossbow proficiency could be useful in a Crossbow Sniper build.

Forestlord Half-Elves: I prefer to use these over the vanilla half-elves because it's nice to have racial abilities with actual flavor. I use these when I need an elf-only PrC but multiclass penalties are being enforced. Well, ok, mostly Eternal Blade builds. Forestlord Elves are good for getting into Revenant Blade (needs Hide and Move Silently). The treewalk thing is a great back-pocket ability that you can surprise DMs with (particularly with a few Tree Feather Tokens).

The Fireblood Dwarves I like because who doesn't need fire resistance, but haven't had a good build to use them in yet. Glimmerskin Halflings... almost as boring as vanilla half-elves. I haven't found a use for them yet. Stonehunter Gnomes... meh. Favored class: ranger might be useful, but it's hard to top Whisper Gnomes in the "sneaky small person" category. Sunscorch Hobgoblins need to lose the LA first. Viletooth Lizardfolk need to lose the racial HD and the LA (Savage Progression levels would have been nice.)

[Meanlucario]

How would we get rid of the LA for Lizardfolks and Hobgoblins?

[Inevitability]

How would we get rid of the LA for Lizardfolks and Hobgoblins?

Take 10 levels of Renegade Mastermaker or Green Star Adept, then have Incarnate Construct cast on you. Retrain the levels afterwards unless your build needed them anyway.

[Manyasone]

LA buyoff in Unearthed arcana

[Red Fel]

I remember asking this same question in a previous thread, you can find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392426-Dragonblood-Races-Your-Thoughts). My own thoughts on them:


I recognize that, from an optimization standpoint, Silverbrow Humans are almost strictly better than regular Humans (unless you really need those skill points). Viletooth Lizardfolk also seem almost strictly better, since they don't actually seem to give up anything except the ability to hold their breath underwater, which is a waste if they can breathe underwater anyway. Forestlord Elves seem almost strictly worse, since they give up almost everything for a single ability they can only use 1/day per 5 HD.

Flavorwise, I'm rather fond of the Fireblood Dwarves; they're pretty decent mechanically, too, since I figure you're more likely to face fire than poison, and dragons than giants.

[Darrin]

How would we get rid of the LA for Lizardfolks and Hobgoblins?

Mostly, beg the DM to handwave them.

[Meanlucario]

LA buyoff in Unearthed arcana

How would I do that? I can't understand how it works, and I tried to understand.

[Inevitability]

How would I do that? I can't understand how it works, and I tried to understand.

After gaining enough HD (3 times the amount of LA) you can spend a number of XP points to lose the LA. This sets your character back a bit, but is better in the long run.

For example, you could play a Sunscorch Hobgoblin warblade. Upon gaining your 3rd HD (you'd be ECL 4 by then), you could pay 3000 XP to lose the LA, becoming an ECL 3 character with 3 HD and no LA.

[Meanlucario]

After gaining enough HD (3 times the amount of LA) you can spend a number of XP points to lose the LA. This sets your character back a bit, but is better in the long run.

For example, you could play a Sunscorch Hobgoblin warblade. Upon gaining your 3rd HD (you'd be ECL 4 by then), you could pay 3000 XP to lose the LA, becoming an ECL 3 character with 3 HD and no LA.

Thanks, I think that helped. It would be the same for the Viletooth Lizardfolk, right?

[Troacctid]

I remember asking this same question in a previous thread, you can find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392426-Dragonblood-Races-Your-Thoughts). My own thoughts on them:
Playing pretty fast and loose with "strictly better" there. Frankly I'd say silverbrow humans are significantly worse than standard humans on a build that doesn't care about the dragonblood subtype. Extra skill points are way more useful than feather fall as a spell-like ability.


Glimmerskin Halflings... almost as boring as vanilla half-elves. I haven't found a use for them yet.
Best use I've found for them so far is Nosomatic Chirurgeon. You have to be a halfling and you need Heal ranks.

[Inevitability]

Thanks, I think that helped. It would be the same for the Viletooth Lizardfolk, right?

Pretty much, though note that the 2 RHD lizardfolk have don't count towards the 'must have 3 HD' rule. You wouldn't be able to buy off the LA until you're ECL 6 (and drop to ECL 5 as a result).

...Yeah, RHD suck.

[DrMotives]

The one trick I see to remove RHD mentioned is failing a save vs level loss after getting hit with negative levels. Then with at least one class level, you shuck off the RHD and have a clean build.

[Meanlucario]

Pretty much, though note that the 2 RHD lizardfolk have don't count towards the 'must have 3 HD' rule. You wouldn't be able to buy off the LA until you're ECL 6 (and drop to ECL 5 as a result).

...Yeah, RHD suck.

Would there be a way for me to ditch the bonus HD?

[Echch]

Would there be a way for me to ditch the bonus HD?

Level drain.

[WhamBamSam]

I like Forestlord Elf and especially Half-Elf for some builds for the free hide skill. For instance, in conjunction with Dragonblood Sorcerer (and the thematically appropriate Green Dragon heritage) you snag Hide and Move Silently on a caster build. I'm fond of taking Aereni Focus (Iaijutsu Focus) from there for a stylish Whirling Blade-based stealthy Gish.