The dm is a clever bastard

[Kevin Drake]

Has anyone had one of those moments that you realized that your dm is actually targeting you specifically? I have. My character is a mage/healer specializing in fire magic, ice magic, and lightning magic. And guess where our dm had us start out in? MOTHER****ING ATLANTIS.

[Occasional Sage]

You know salt water conducts, right?

And that ice is made of water?

Plus, being bathed in boiling water probably hurts as badly as being burned.

That said, some advance warning would've been good, either before you built your character or when he saw it before the first session.

[Sigreid]

Atlantis post sinking into the sea? I ask because it could be a really cool campaign either trying to stop the sinking or surviving right after.

[Innocent_bystan]

I don't quite see the problem. (And yes, what happens to Atlantis)

Healing stays viable throughout any campaign. Elemental magic works differently under water, but will you be playing under water for long periods?
I'd sit down with the DM and discuss how being submerged affects your spells, after that you're good to go.

[Asmotherion]

If a problem occures, and if your DM is not the sneaky type that likes to make his players suffer for no apparent reason (never has this been fun, yet some people still do it aparently), you could discuss with him that, eventhough you are underwater (I suppose this is the problem), your spells work normally; Fire Bolt for example is magical fire, not just fire, and we have examples of magical fire (continual flame) able to be submerged without being quenshed. Otherwise, wile submerged, your DM could rule that the heat of the spell creates a boiling water sphere, rather than a flame, witch does the same damage.

[Herobizkit]

Chances are high that your DM's Atlantis has domed, non-sea areas where magic works normally. :3

[Trolleitor]

Did your DM ruled that you can't cast spells with verbal component underwater?

Because that would be hilarious...

[Kevin Drake]

Atlantis post sinking into the sea? I ask because it could be a really cool campaign either trying to stop the sinking or surviving right after.
Post sinking, we were infiltrating an enemy castle on the outskirts of it

[Slipperychicken]

You locked in a character before even knowing what the campaign would be about?

[Kevin Drake]

Also as for why I couldn't use the spells, if I used lightning it would instantly result in a tpk, if I used ice it would freeze my character, and fire wouldn't do jack ****.

[JackPhoenix]

Also as for why I couldn't use the spells, if I used lightning it would instantly result in a tpk, if I used ice it would freeze my character, and fire wouldn't do jack ****.

Submerged creatures have resistance to fire damage. That's it. RAW, water has no effect on lightning or cold damage or spells (it's not like lightning spells obey our laws of physics in the first place).

[Unoriginal]

Also as for why I couldn't use the spells, if I used lightning it would instantly result in a tpk, if I used ice it would freeze my character, and fire wouldn't do jack ****.

That's not being clever, that's your DM being a stupid jerk.

Nothing about this is how D&D spells work. You can cast electricity-based spells, ice-based spells and fire-based spells underwater without any ill effect.

Either your DM genuinely didn't get how magic work in that situation, or he deliberately tried to **** your character for no reason.

[stoutstien]

was it mandatory you make up a character with no clues about the campaign? did he hand out or list any house rules he wishes to use prior to the first dice roll? If no on ether fronts your DM is very inexperienced or a horrid DM. ether way i'd ask for a ....post-pre-meeting? to talk about important stuff. have you played with this person in the past?

[mgshamster]

Personally I'd go with the challenge and see what you can make of it in this setting. It may end up being a super fun character, even if it didn't turn out like you were expecting.

[lunaticfringe]

That's not being clever, that's your DM being a stupid jerk.

Nothing about this is how D&D spells work. You can cast electricity-based spells, ice-based spells and fire-based spells underwater without any ill effect.

Either your DM genuinely didn't get how magic work in that situation, or he deliberately tried to **** your character for no reason.

Yup, also Underwater is ****ing terrible for everyone not a Triton or Water Genasi. According to the rules anyway, which they apparently aren't following.

[Arcangel4774]

Abuse his rules. Figure out the range/damage of the whole lightning tpk. Suicide bomb enemies or, if its available, use a find familiar to perform shocking grasp to do it and keep yourself safe.

The same can go with ice spells.

[Unoriginal]

You should talk to your DM and ask them why they did this.

[Knaight]

That's not being clever, that's your DM being a stupid jerk.

Nothing about this is how D&D spells work. You can cast electricity-based spells, ice-based spells and fire-based spells underwater without any ill effect.

Either your DM genuinely didn't get how magic work in that situation, or he deliberately tried to **** your character for no reason.

It's not being clever, but it could easily be a nod to simulationism instead of the DM being a jerk, particularly if the DM is cool with you taking advantage of this water behavior (e.g. managing to make an air bubble around the party then hose down the water with lightning).

[Scripten]

No offense to OP meant, at all, but I had much higher hopes about this thread before I read it.

I thought we were going to be sharing stories of 5E DMs that pulled legitimately clever stuff, rather than a jerk DM screwing over their players.

[Kuulvheysoon]

That's not being clever, that's your DM being a stupid jerk.

Nothing about this is how D&D spells work. You can cast electricity-based spells, ice-based spells and fire-based spells underwater without any ill effect.

Either your DM genuinely didn't get how magic work in that situation, or he deliberately tried to **** your character for no reason.

Actually, as JackPhoenix pointed out, everybody gets Resistance to Fire if they're completely submerged.

[JackPhoenix]

Is it? My impression is less of a GM houserules, but rather player assumptions based entirely on the fact that it's going to be underwater campaign (or at least starts as one) and not knowing what the rules really say about the situation. That, or, given the tone of the OP, trolling (or perhaps I've spent too much time on /tg/)

[Unoriginal]

Actually, as JackPhoenix pointed out, everybody gets Resistance to Fire if they're completely submerged.

Fair enough, but it's not the spell that's modified, it's the people who are protected.

If I'm underwater and casting Firebolt at someone who's on the ground at the surface, my Firebolt isn't diminished.

[Foxhound438]

if I used lightning it would instantly result in a tpk

just do that then. demonstrate why this rule is stupid, and then go play a different campaign without that kind of garbage.

[mgshamster]

Post sinking, we were infiltrating an enemy castle on the outskirts of it

So if you were infiltrating an enemy castle on the outskirts of Atlantis, how is that the same as starting in a submerged Atlantis?

Was the castle also submerged? Did your enemy escape into the waters and you chose to pursue him? Or did the DM just say, "You're infiltrating a castle on the outskirts of Atlantis, and you're all underwater. Ready to begin?"

Also, what pre-campaign information did your DM give you?

[DarkKnightJin]

just do that then. demonstrate why this rule is stupid, and then go play a different campaign without that kind of garbage.

"You guys sick of this ****? I am." *Casts Lightning Bolt, and wipes the party* (ooc) "So.. new characters?"

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Atlantis post sinking into the sea? I ask because it could be a really cool campaign either trying to stop the sinking or surviving right after.

Do you mind if I use that in my next campaign? Thats a cool concept. Also I am currently I am playing through Curse of Strahd because the DM is a good friend of mine he decides to give me a hard time. "Hey a pack of wolves they all attack the poor monk." (I'm the monk) Hey a Strahd lets have it bite the monk."

(If the_brazenburn is reading this I mean you no harm.) :smallbiggrin:

[Ivor_The_Mad]

Ok so I have more on the CoS dungeon. So we were trailing to a village of anthropomorphic leeches. (Thats what I get for telling the DM my ideas.) I decide to be flank guard (DMs idea) and suddenly I was dragged into the swamp by a leech after that encounter (dropped to 10hp) we nearly fell in a trap door with a leech in it. I try to activate it but instead the leech grabs my staff and proceeds to drag me into the swamp then Irena (Npc) tries to help but fails and gets pulled in after me then the druid tries and gets dragged in too. *I proceed to yell at the dm then leave* when I return the DM takes pity on us and let us re roll. after that was a lot more picking on the monk and a lot more failed strength saves.

My DM is a bastard (the_brazenburn if you are reading this this is not an invitation to take it out on the monk.)

[the_brazenburn]

Ok so I have more on the CoS dungeon. So we were trailing to a village of anthropomorphic leeches. (Thats what I get for telling the DM my ideas.) I decide to be flank guard (DMs idea) and suddenly I was dragged into the swamp by a leech after that encounter (dropped to 10hp) we nearly fell in a trap door with a leech in it. I try to activate it but instead the leech grabs my staff and proceeds to drag me into the swamp then Irena (Npc) tries to help but fails and gets pulled in after me then the druid tries and gets dragged in too. *I proceed to yell at the dm then leave* when I return the DM takes pity on us and let us re roll. after that was a lot more picking on the monk and a lot more failed strength saves.

My DM is a bastard (the_brazenburn if you are reading this this is not an invitation to take it out on the monk.)

I had no choice. The druid would have been auto-killed by the leech attack, and you guys don't give a single Asmodeus's Golden Arse about Ireena Kolyanvich. You were the only one who had both a good chance of survival and a good chance of being rescued.

[Zanthy1]

So....I don't see how that seems like he is targeting you specifically. It seems like the situation your campaign is under didn't fall in line with a character concept you had, and that if you really wanted to you could have made something more suitable. Regardless, all your spells should be fine, and the rest of the party also has to deal with it, which makes me think you just cannot handle the fact that you're in a challenging campaign spot, and thus complain here that you are being targeted by your "clever dm" which I will echo is a very misleading way to describe it as I clicked hoping for a cool story and was met with a whinner.

[Finlam]

I had no choice. The druid would have been auto-killed by the leech attack, and you guys don't give a single Asmodeus's Golden Arse about Ireena Kolyanvich. You were the only one who had both a good chance of survival and a good chance of being rescued.
This just got awkward....


Seriously though, just a suggestion: don't get attached to NPCs and don't fix your plot lines in stone. It's perfectly OK to let an NPC die, even if they're a major plot component. This goes triple if the PCs don't care for the NPC being around (nobody wants a drag on their fun).

Sometimes the "Oh ****, we needed that person and they're dead, what do we do now?" moment is worth it in and of itself. But what usually happens in that moment is that players (in or our of character) discuss what to do and what they *want* to do. If you're willing to listen to the players and to adapt the story, this presents you, as the DM, with a good opportunity to course-adjust the plot to get the players and their characters more involved with the story.

It also presents the opportunity for you to naturally incept ideas into the conversation so that players *may* and *will* (if you're really good at incepting) decide to go do X or pursue point Y, and think it's entirely their own idea, never knowing that it was exactly what you wanted them to do.


In short, don't get emotional or overly attached to NPCs and plots, everyone's there to have a good time. Just remember the words of the ultimate DM:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/en.futurama/images/2/22/Godentity.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090524190124
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

[Unoriginal]

I had no choice. The druid would have been auto-killed by the leech attack, and you guys don't give a single Asmodeus's Golden Arse about Ireena Kolyanvich. You were the only one who had both a good chance of survival and a good chance of being rescued.

How did you not have a choice?

If the endangered NPC is not being saved, they die. Simple.

[the_brazenburn]

This just got awkward....


Seriously though, just a suggestion: don't get attached to NPCs and don't fix your plot lines in stone. It's perfectly OK to let an NPC die, even if they're a major plot component. This goes triple if the PCs don't care for the NPC being around (nobody wants a drag on their fun).

Sometimes the "Oh ****, we needed that person and they're dead, what do we do now?" moment is worth it in and of itself. But what usually happens in that moment is that players (in or our of character) discuss what to do and what they *want* to do. If you're willing to listen to the players and to adapt the story, this presents you, as the DM, with a good opportunity to course-adjust the plot to get the players and their characters more involved with the story.

It also presents the opportunity for you to naturally incept ideas into the conversation so that players *may* and *will* (if you're really good at incepting) decide to go do X or pursue point Y, and think it's entirely their own idea, never knowing that it was exactly what you wanted them to do.


In short, don't get emotional or overly attached to NPCs and plots, everyone's there to have a good time. Just remember the words of the ultimate DM:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/en.futurama/images/2/22/Godentity.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090524190124
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

I guess it makes sense, but the NPC Ireena is essentially a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. If you've read Curse of Strahd, you'll know this:

Ireena is the reincarnation of Tatyana, Strahd's one true love. The only reason that the CR 15 Strahd hasn't yet killed the level 4 party is that he's still waiting to capture Ireena and make her into his vampire consort. If they allow her to die, he'll just resurrect her and then wipe the players off the map.

You can see why it irks me that they don't care about Ireena, and so she gets all sorts of cool buffs to give them a reason to keep her around (and doesn't get unnecessarily placed in harm's way).

[Ivor_The_Mad]

WAIT hold on. We most certainly care about Irena some what. we wouldn't purposefully leave her to die. Its just the DM forgets to mention her half the time or remind us that she's there the only reason we let the first guy take her is because we thought the guy was a high cr that we couldn't face and we later planed and executed a rescue mission. The second time with Strahd the DM completely forgot to mention her and even forgot to give her a spot at the table until the encounter as over and then remembered and explained that Irena WAS there. So that was NOT our fault!!!!

If the DM cant even remember the NPC then how can we?

[the_brazenburn]

WAIT hold on. We most certainly about Irena. Its just the DM forgets to mention her half the time or remind us that she's there the only reason we let the first guy take her is because we thought the guy was a high cr that we couldn't face the second time with strahd the DM completely forgot to mention her and even forgot to give her a spot at the table until the encounter as over and then remembered and explained that Irena WAS there. So that was NOT our fault!!!!

If the DM cant even remember the NPC then how can we?

I literally told you, word for word, that Strahd had taken Ireena last session. I even tipped you off to where she had gone. Instead of saving her from Castle Ravenloft, you went to Vallaki, murdered civilians with thunderwave spells and rescued a monkey!

For anybody who has no idea what we're talking about, or wishes to pass judgement on whether I am a bastard or not, see our post on the CoS adventure: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540101-Ivor-and-Brazenbuns-Curse-of-Strahd-Farce

[Ivor_The_Mad]

But not until after we had the encounter, THEN you remembered

[Kevin Drake]

Everyone know that the dm wasn't being an *******. Technically we all were *******s cuz we didn't know how to properly make a character (this was the first ever session for any of us) and the dm had to find some way to get some actual challenge in there so it was fun. He made it a one-off though and now we use more reasonable characters