Ezmeralda's Magic Wagon Booby Trap, A DM's insight needed.

[Silly Ox]

Description:

Cruse of Strahd (p 168)

Booby Trap

The inside handle of the door has a wire looped around it, and the wire is connected to a flask of alchemist's fire hanging form the wagon's ceiling. When the door is opened, the flask falls and explodes, ogniting one hundred more flasks of alchemist's fire that dangle from wires like ornaments along the wagon's interior walls. A creature within 30 feet of the wagon when it explodes must succed a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 55 (10d10) fire damage on a failed save, or half as much on a succesfull one. (continues ...)

What happened in game:

1. Knocked on door and asked if anybody was inside. --> no answer.
2. Detection for traps on the door --> no traps detected.
3. The PC tried to open the door by lowering the door handle without using excessive force.
4. Upon lowering door handle, trap was activated.
5. Allot of damage + wagon and contents where destroyed.

I stand by the DM's ruling for the continuation of the game, but would like some insights of other DM's. I just want a friendly discussion.

Questions:

1. Was lowering the door handle enhough to set of the trap?
2. Does detecting traps on the (outside of the) door work to detect the trap?
3. Are these kind of booby traps common in the world of Barovia? Should we be scared of every door handle?

[Aembrosia]

Nah.

Depends was it an investigation check or the spell detect traps? Investigation: no. Spell: probably.

Be careful where you step at all times and use the word "power" as seldom as possible.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Questions:

1. Was lowering the door handle enhough to set of the trap?
2. Does detecting traps on the (outside of the) door work to detect the trap?
3. Are these kind of booby traps common in the world of Barovia? Should we be scared of every door handle?

1. DM's call. You could reasonably have the trigger be either 'on moving the handle' or 'on moving the door'. The thing is, if turning the handle hadn't set off the trap, what would the PC have done? 100-to-1 they open the door and the trap goes off anyway. So it's academic.

2. No. The trap is non-magical and wouldn't have any give-aways outside the door. On the other hand, a good Perception check (I'm assuming 'detecting traps' is usually Investigation) might detect the smell of Alchemist's Fire seeping through cracks in the door. If the PCs are not expecting 10d10 exploding rooms, it seems quite unfair to drop it on them with no warning, so some kind of hint may be in order. If you know the person who owns the wagon is a half-mad alchemist, that's fair warning. If you see exploded rooms elsewhere, that's fair. Otherwise, not so fair.

3. No idea, sorry. I don't know the lore.

[ClintACK]

It sounds like you've got a sense that something went wrong -- something was unfair -- but you're not exactly sure what. You're not going to find it in plausibility or real-world physics or anything like that. What went wrong is a mismatch in expectations -- meta-rules of the game. A narrative problem, not a Rules problem.

You can reasonably expect the game to follow the format of:

DM describes a situation
Players decide how their characters react
DM describes how the world responds -- which is determined by the choices of the players


You were presented with a (potentially mortal) danger, did everything in-game to check for that danger, and it hit you anyway. Not because of bad rolls, but because the scenario was a Kobayashi-Maru no-win scenario. Player choices didn't matter.

(In Story terms: Rocks just fell from the sky, with no foreshadowing or context. And the readers feel betrayed -- there was no way they could anticipate that, so the "surprise" is cheap and unearned, like a bad horror movie's jump scares.)

Of course, we're missing all kinds of context. Your DM might have given you all kinds of warnings that you just missed.

[Arial Black]

I've played through this.

We assumed the wagon belonged to Rictavio (we were wrong, but not that wrong!). He is the guy who asked us to meet him at this place. We are hoping that he becomes an ally.

My PC, a City Watch Investigator from Balder's Gate, knocked on the door and called out, "Hello, is anyone there?" a few times.

When no-one answered, she went to study the door to the tower.

Then our rogue (who has previously been known to sneak into the rooms of potential allies in order to steal loose change!) went up to the door and tried picking locks. I, as a player, asked him what he was doing? It's not some random dungeon door, but the home of a potential ally? He's Breaking and Entering!

He didn't care, he was going to do it anyway!

Ah, well, my character isn't there at this point so she can't stop him; she isn't in a position to even see him do this.

So, it explodes and is 3 hp from killing him outright.

Clearest case of attempted suicide I ever saw. I was only sorry that he failed.

We hoped he'd learn a lesson. He did, but not the hoped for, 'don't be a ****', but instead he just wrote, 'CHECK FOR TRAPS' on his character sheet, for future reference when he tries to be a ****.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Well, it is possible to bypass the trap by

Going through the trapdoor on the bottom of the wagon

It's just that there's not any obvious prompt to do so. I only noticed it because a random unattended wagon next to a crumbling tower triggered my case of adventurer's paranoia and I checked the window and saw the alchemists fire.

(We then confiscated the alchemists fire and refused to give it back to Ezmerelda when she turned up. Clearly, the woman was a danger to herself and others and could not be trusted with the stuff.)

[Temperjoke]

To answer your last question first, no, this isn't the normal sort of trap that you'd commonly encounter. That being said, welcome to Barovia, where sometimes all you can hope for is for your corpse to either be cremated or buried in secret so it be desecrated.

I don't want to spoil things for others, but given Ezmeralda's background and occupation, setting a massive trap in hopes of annihilating any presumably unfriendly (after all, why would a "friendly" attempt to break and enter her personal space?) attempting entry that would also help preserve her secrets is not out of the ordinary.

[Battlebooze]

Find traps skill should work on this, but you might have failed in your roll. It's a brutal trap, that's for sure. At least the alchemy inside is easily taken if you defeat it.

[Battlebooze]

There is another real problem with this trap, it's simply too easy to activate if you have it work by the door handle being turned. Ezmeralda wouldn't have her wagon very long if the trap just went off by the door being checked...

Now if the trap was activated by the door being opened, which should be locked, then that would be fine. It would only activate after someone picked the lock and was obviously trying to break in, not just someone walking by and trying the door handle.

[Hrugner]

Looking for traps probably should have worked. You move the handle a bit near the end of your check and notice a sleight weight is pulling it back into place. You may also hear the sound of the wire rubbing against its pulley and the tinkling of glass chimes.

But you should also peek in the window first.

[Silly Ox]

Now if the trap was activated by the door being opened, which should be locked, then that would be fine. It would only activate after someone picked the lock and was obviously trying to break in, not just someone walking by and trying the door handle.

This is what I was also thinking, the trap should be activated by the door opening and the door should be locked (It's not specified in the handbook?). That, or she's just a complete nutter.
This tuesday I will need to decide how I will to react on her returning to her blown up wagon. I will probably go with: you're insane and I down't want to risk my life working with you! But it's generaly accepted in our party that she could be important in defeating strahd.

THANKS FOR ALL THE REPLIES SO FAR!

[MrStabby]

I haven't played the module but is there nowhere you can acquire a 10 ft pole?

Picking the lock then being round the corner as you open the door should shield you from the worst of it. Use of mage hand to open the door would do the same. With this cantrip being available to so many classes and with magic initiate available if you play with feats it is certainly by choice if the party doesn't have access to the cantrip.

[georgie_leech]

I haven't played the module but is there nowhere you can acquire a 10 ft pole?

Picking the lock then being round the corner as you open the door should shield you from the worst of it. Use of mage hand to open the door would do the same. With this cantrip being available to so many classes and with magic initiate available if you play with feats it is certainly by choice if the party doesn't have access to the cantrip.

If the players can engineer a corner to hide behind in the open space the wagon is parked, maybe. This trap isn't 'hurt whoever opens the door as discouragement,' it's 'blow the whole thing to smithereens.'

[MrStabby]

If the players can engineer a corner to hide behind in the open space the wagon is parked, maybe. This trap isn't 'hurt whoever opens the door as discouragement,' it's 'blow the whole thing to smithereens.'

I had thought damage was to someone withing 30ft of the wagon, and the wagon was behind the door, so anything more than about 20 ft from the door would probably be OK - although mentaly i may have the layout wrong.

[georgie_leech]

I had thought damage was to someone withing 30ft of the wagon, and the wagon was behind the door, so anything more than about 20 ft from the door would probably be OK - although mentaly i may have the layout wrong.

Probably. The door people are referring to is the door to the wagon itself.

[Naanomi]

I'd allow some skill to detect the trap (though maybe at a high DC); having a 'no chance to detect it' trap doesn't feel right.

Also, If I were in a game where it was established that lots of alchemist fire bottles stacked in one area acted like that, I would immediately start abusing that for my own purposes (transmutation wizard go!)

[Alerad]

I'm DMing CoS and we haven't reached the tower yet, but find it one of the worst dungeon designs I've seen. You have a lair which entire purpose is to blow up.

I already changed a lot of other dungeons (Argynvostholt was more populated and the monsters from the book roamed the castle. Some of them fought each other.)

Consider giving the players A LOT of small hints that something is wrong:
- Perception to see tracks under the wagon
- Perception to smell ingredients of Alchemist fire
- Can the windows be open/broken?
- Investigation to figure out what kind of trap there could be even if you don't see it
- Insight to sense that something is just not right
- Lots and lots of warnings. Seriously, this trap should have blown, but it hasn't. Which means locals stay AWAY from the tower. If characters ask around they should get a lot of early warning signs.
- Kill an NPC. Ismark can take the damage.

It's not your fault, or the players, it's how the adventure is written.

[Temperjoke]

I'm DMing CoS and we haven't reached the tower yet, but find it one of the worst dungeon designs I've seen. You have a lair which entire purpose is to blow up.

I already changed a lot of other dungeons (Argynvostholt was more populated and the monsters from the book roamed the castle. Some of them fought each other.)

Consider giving the players A LOT of small hints that something is wrong:
- Perception to see tracks under the wagon
- Perception to smell ingredients of Alchemist fire
- Can the windows be open/broken?
- Investigation to figure out what kind of trap there could be even if you don't see it
- Insight to sense that something is just not right
- Lots and lots of warnings. Seriously, this trap should have blown, but it hasn't. Which means locals stay AWAY from the tower. If characters ask around they should get a lot of early warning signs.
- Kill an NPC. Ismark can take the damage.

It's not your fault, or the players, it's how the adventure is written.

The adventure is meant to be very lethal. It's a gothic horror campaign, and a heavy risk of death is part of the horror. I mean, do what you want, but that level of lethalness is designed as intended.

As for why you would leave the door trapped like that, it's because you don't use that door. Ever. On purpose. The people using that door are likely your enemies, if you aren't there to warn them to not use it. Barovia is a very lethal and dangerous place, it takes an extreme level of professional paranoia to survive. She also doesn't take the wagon a lot of places where casual people might set off the trap accidentally, she rides a horse when she travels. And regular people do not travel widely in Barovia, since the mist itself can be lethal. People stick to the roads and towns, they do not randomly explore.

[MrStabby]

I presume the creator is a high level caster? It sounds like there is no way our of the wagon one they have set the trap except teleport/dimension door type spells?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I presume the creator is a high level caster? It sounds like there is no way our of the wagon one they have set the trap except teleport/dimension door type spells?

Like I said,
There's a trapdoor on the bottom of the cart. The creator has 7th level Wizard casting, so not that powerful - about the 5th or 6th most powerful mage in Barovia.

[MrStabby]

Like I said,
There's a trapdoor on the bottom of the cart. The creator has 7th level Wizard casting, so not that powerful - about the 5th or 6th most powerful mage in Barovia.

Ah right, this falls into place now. I had misunderstood - sorry.

OK, this seems a much more fair encounter

[JellyPooga]

1. Was lowering the door handle enhough to set of the trap?

It depends on the style of door handle:

- A round door "knob" doesn't lower, only turns, so wouldn't set the trap off.

- A more modern lever-style door "handle" probably would set the trap off, if the wire is looped around the end (looped around the pivot end of the handle would be functionally the same as for a door knob)...however...if the wire is looped around the end of the handle, there's a chance that the wire will slip off randomly and as someone designing a trap, I would be wary of this method unless it was rigged in a hurry or only temporary. You don't want your trap going off randomly, after all. Bear in mind that the lever-style door handle being common is a relatively modern construction; "back in the day" they would be reserved for the very rich and a travelling wagon would be unlikely to have such an expensive door mechanism (especially if you plan on blowing it up!).


2. Does detecting traps on the (outside of the) door work to detect the trap?

Again, it depends on the trap. Is the door locked? If not, carefully opening the door (assuming a "door knob" set up rather than "precarious door handle") might reveal the unexpected weight. As someone else mentioned, in the door handle scenario, noticing the handle "return" because of the extra weight or the smell of that much alchemists fire could give the game away. A Find Traps spell would reveal it immediately (despite the awkward wording of the spell with regards to LoS, the door is trapped and I'd rule it would detect as such). Unless a trap is very specifically set up to be undetectable from one side of a door or another (e.g. a tripwire behind a door, set to go off when the door opens onto it, which is somehow rigged to a ballista sitting 20ft away from the door behind an illusory wall...the door itself is not trapped, but opening the door triggers it), then it probably should be detectable somehow. In this case, the door itself is trapped, so a good Rogue should have at least a chance at finding it.


3. Are these kind of booby traps common in the world of Barovia? Should we be scared of every door handle?

A good Rogue is paranoid.

There's a reason for that, Barovia or not.

[Gravy Kingpin]

I just want to say, as the one who set this trap off, this is a stupid trap. Who would rig their house to blow up when someone tests an unlocked latch? Were the latch locked, picked or forcibly compromised, yes, then perhaps it triggers at that moment. This was little more than a "Gotcha" moment written into CoS added to do maximum dmg vs a minimal intrusion.

[P. G. Macer]

As someone who has DM’ed Curse of Strahd, I’d like to point out that the owner of the wagon left a big sign saying KEEP OUT on the trapped door. Ezmerelda was with my party when they reached the tower and wagon, so they bypassed the trap.

I am AFB and it’s been a while since I ran it, but I see both the point that this trap both fits very well with Ezmerelda’s justified paranoia, but also that the trap would make more sense if it didn’t go off when someone tried to open a locked door but instead succeeded after picking the lock.

The trap is also very setting-appropriate, as even the good guys have to take drastic measures in Barovia.

I’ll have to reserve my final verdict for after we learn how the player checked for traps. Was it Investigation, Perception, the find traps spell, or something else, and how high did they roll?

[Ventruenox]

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