Starting New Campaign, PC's will be Vampires

[nuaragonis]

So the main focus of this post is to gather some thoughts from the crowd and get ideas on what should I add to my world. I am using the Lords of the Night PDF from Dream Scarred Press to help build up a framework to run this game. This game will be set in a classic Urban setting, a Large Trade Port City. The main goals for this campaign is to see how far the PC's can go and how powerful they can become with the restrictions of being a vampire in a human world. Starting level will be 5th, the group is only three players strong. Any thoughts so far?

[WarKitty]

I suspect it would end up being a very minion-heavy game, what with the vampire's inability to function in sunlight. I might make some extra allowances for obtaining and using hirelings.

What are the players doing in the city, exactly? What exactly is their goal? Gain power? Gain wealth? Root out a cult? Just survive?

[nuaragonis]

I suspect it would end up being a very minion-heavy game, what with the vampire's inability to function in sunlight. I might make some extra allowances for obtaining and using hirelings.

What are the players doing in the city, exactly? What exactly is their goal? Gain power? Gain wealth? Root out a cult? Just survive?

The players have been brought to the City by their Progenitor, As of now the goal is to find a place for themselves in the current heirarchy of the vampires that currently inhabit the city. So, gain power, survive, protect the secrecy of themselves and other vampires from the mortals they feed off of. I figure the main focus of early quests would be to root out predators that are a danger to the secrecy surrounding the vampires, and possible hunting down anti-vampire groups in the city.

As for allowances for hirelings. How about I provide a service from the current vampire guild that provides reliable hirelings for vampires who choose to be part of the group. Maybe at a higher expense than normal?

[nuaragonis]

So far, two of the three players have chosen classes. One chose a Bard and the other chose a Monk. The Bards plan is to use the city's large amount of trade traffic to start a brothel, easy ways to find food and good alibis. The monk wants to become a tutor.

[WarKitty]

The players have been brought to the City by their Progenitor, As of now the goal is to find a place for themselves in the current heirarchy of the vampires that currently inhabit the city. So, gain power, survive, protect the secrecy of themselves and other vampires from the mortals they feed off of. I figure the main focus of early quests would be to root out predators that are a danger to the secrecy surrounding the vampires, and possible hunting down anti-vampire groups in the city.

As for allowances for hirelings. How about I provide a service from the current vampire guild that provides reliable hirelings for vampires who choose to be part of the group. Maybe at a higher expense than normal?

Hirelings paid extra for secrecy might not be a bad idea - with normal hirelings you run the risk of them figuring out too much.

[nuaragonis]

Hirelings paid extra for secrecy might not be a bad idea - with normal hirelings you run the risk of them figuring out too much.

I want to try and focus in on the secrecy on part of the players. Anything to overt and it might hold consequences for the vampires and them specifically if they are found out. Mortals are not to found of blood thirsty predators in their town. So I may end up having them be the enforcer squad that goes around and works on part of the Guild to take care of business. Allowing time for them to try and gain power on the side.

I'll be working on an "Alert" scale for the town going from 1 to 10, 1 being peaceful and 10 being manhunt. The lower the scale the more benefits the vampires get for moving around town, less guards and greater penalties for an npc rolling to see if they spot them as a vampire. The higher up they are the more patrols, Adventuring parties, and bonuses npcs get for rooting out the threat. Lords of the Night goes into more details on it.

[nuaragonis]

So a few questions I have so far is: What class do you think would be best for a vampire queen and the nobles of her court. Should I have the players come from different sires, or the same one. Lastly, any good side plot hooks for the beginning of the game?

[WarKitty]

I want to try and focus in on the secrecy on part of the players. Anything to overt and it might hold consequences for the vampires and them specifically if they are found out. Mortals are not to found of blood thirsty predators in their town. So I may end up having them be the enforcer squad that goes around and works on part of the Guild to take care of business. Allowing time for them to try and gain power on the side.

That might be fun - I find it useful personally to at least start the game with some sort of stated mission that the PC's are given, to promote party unity and get things moving. This may vary by your players, but I've found starting too open-ended makes for a disunited party.


I'll be working on an "Alert" scale for the town going from 1 to 10, 1 being peaceful and 10 being manhunt. The lower the scale the more benefits the vampires get for moving around town, less guards and greater penalties for an npc rolling to see if they spot them as a vampire. The higher up they are the more patrols, Adventuring parties, and bonuses npcs get for rooting out the threat. Lords of the Night goes into more details on it.

One thing that's worth considering is that "humans" isn't going to be a single uniform group. So does, for example, the criminal mob boss know that vampires exist and live in the town? If so, what does he do about it? Shadier types of characters might be more willing to line their own pockets in exchange for secrecy and trade with vampires. And that doesn't just have to include the underworld - perhaps a corrupt noble could be paid off to discourage rumors of vampires.

[nuaragonis]

That might be fun - I find it useful personally to at least start the game with some sort of stated mission that the PC's are given, to promote party unity and get things moving. This may vary by your players, but I've found starting too open-ended makes for a disunited party.



One thing that's worth considering is that "humans" isn't going to be a single uniform group. So does, for example, the criminal mob boss know that vampires exist and live in the town? If so, what does he do about it? Shadier types of characters might be more willing to line their own pockets in exchange for secrecy and trade with vampires. And that doesn't just have to include the underworld - perhaps a corrupt noble could be paid off to discourage rumors of vampires.

For sure, like I said the Lords of the Night PDF does a pretty good job at going into detail on Corruption and such in the town itself and how that effects the alert system. The fact that there is a Mob in the city would for example raise the base alert level because the city officials would be on the look out for shadier individuals.

[WarKitty]

It might be useful to establish a network of allies, pseudo-allies, enemies, and pseudo-enemies beforehand. If nothing else if the PC's want to go to a guy you'll know who they can go to. And it just makes the potential plots more interesting - maybe Bob the Mafia Guy wants the vampires to take on a hit for him in exchange for his continued silence, for example.

Personally, I'd have them all have the same sire, just for the sake of party cohesion. Gives the PC's a good reason to know each other and work together.

As far as classes, I'd think any of wizard, sorcerer, or cleric would be appropriate for the upper echelons. Bard or Beguiler might also be fun, especially for a mastermind character.

[Ualaa]

Way of the Wicked (by Fire Mountain Games), Books 4 & 5 each have the appendix on playing as either a Vampire or Lich.

Very good information there, if you have access.
The printed books are hard to come by.
But you can get the PDFs rather cheaply on Drive Thru RPG, if you so desire.

As an aside, that campaign has easily been better than anything our group has run by Paizo.
It takes (evil) characters from 1st to 20th, across six books.
There are frequently 'victory points' for objectives, without telling the players that there are points.
So you can adjudicate how well they do something, and how the objective turns out.



In regards to your specific campaign...

Becoming a Vampire, the numerous weaknesses of being a member of the undead, the amazing strengths that the template gets you... and it is very strong, when you break it down.

Dealing with the need of a coffin, is covered.
So is the idea that if you're discovered, sleeping in a coffin during the day is a substantial weakness... and if a weakness is never exploited, then that's a lost story opportunity.
That said, you might not want to make it a constant string of attacks while the PCs are asleep.

There are several items for the undead.
Several feats as well.

They cover the Lich too.

Optional rules, entirely.
But they make sense, and are set within a Pathfinder adventure, so the same rules type as the Dreamscarred Press you're using.

[Geddy2112]

I argue that minions are not needed, instead the players will just operate in non daylight hours. Most adventuring parties of mortals sleep 8 hours during the night-the vampires can just sleep during the day, and work during the night. Your characters are already helping you choose classes for this-a bard running a brothel will see the most customers from sundown to early morning, when the day laborers are off shift. The tutor could offer classes in a night school setting-children who need to help with their parent's trade, but are being sent to a cram school after hours. Or as a monk it could be a martial arts/yoga class/gym, the kind of thing people do after their 9-5.

Also, if you are in a port town, there is going to be sailors rolling in and our 24/7, so plenty of adventure to be had. Most of Bram Stoker's Dracula takes place in a port town in England, when Dracula moves there. It has a lot of details about how me moved himself and other vampires in coffins, and how he acquired real estate.

If there is a large population of vampires with a governing guild, then I would expect a charisma based class at the top, but a powerful arcane(intelligence) or divine caster is possible. You might have a single Strahd style leader, or a council like True blood.

For side quests, you have anything from hunters, non vampire political and elite interfacing with the vampires, religions for and against the undead, any large cruise or cargo ships and other port activity, and uh...ahem... "fangbangers" and similar groupie types.

[nuaragonis]

So the reason for running this semi-evil game, is to test the limits of the players moralities. I want to try and come up with some truly evil scenarios and see how far the players take it. No need to go into any gruesome details, it can be a fade to black once the decision is made etc. Have any of you had to make the hard choice in a game that really tested your morals as a player? I understand they are the ones playing the vampires, but even so vampires have a near complete memory of life before undeath, also they are fairly recently made vampires so the social restrictions of life are still upon them.

Also thanks for the previous comments, very useful information.

[Geddy2112]

So the reason for running this semi-evil game, is to test the limits of the players moralities. I want to try and come up with some truly evil scenarios and see how far the players take it. No need to go into any gruesome details, it can be a fade to black once the decision is made etc. Have any of you had to make the hard choice in a game that really tested your morals as a player? I understand they are the ones playing the vampires, but even so vampires have a near complete memory of life before undeath, also they are fairly recently made vampires so the social restrictions of life are still upon them.

I would avoid going the route of "evil scenario and see how much puppy kicking they do in response". Evil characters should and are rarely evil for the lulz or the evilz, but for a good reason. Perhaps they just don't see life as sacred, something mechanical-they see no difference between killing a person and weeding a garden or any other activity. Maybe they are in a kill or be killed society-they are vampires after all, and they have to feed on living things to survive and fuel their inherently evil undeath. They also probably don't just feed the minimum or care about leaving their victims alive-if they don't kill a victim or torture/lock up their cattle, it is for utterly selfish reasons that have nothing to do with care for another.

The main difference is that good characters often choose a harder route- they want to slay the dragon, but they also don't want the dragon's slaves to come to harm. They risk life and make their jobs harder by trying to help others. Evil characters won't give two flips about that kind of stuff. Hostages work because the good guys care about the hostages, but the evil party has no problem kicking the door in and taking out the hostage takers. If they start killing hostages, team evil does not care. Heck, they might just take em all out, hostages and hostage takers. Evil will do whatever it takes to get results, including kill innocent people. However, it is very rare that evil commits random acts of evil just because, or to prove they are evil. Remind the players that they are evil because they are undead monsters, and that nobody is going to take their evil card away if they don't kill X puppies a session. Give them the same quests and adventure hooks you give any other party-the difference is the evil characters have every means at their disposal. THey can go about solving problems like good and neutral parties, but if those methods don't work, take too long, or otherwise prove problematic, they can reach into the evil toolbox and go about solving the situation in evil ways.

[Ualaa]

The Blight (Frog God Games) recently finished its' kickstarter, and backers will receive it somewhere near Q4 2016 or Q1 2017.
It advertises a not for kids rating, that descends into depravity and is gruesome, but without actually crossing the line or breaching the licensing agreement.

I'm rather curious what it will be like.

This will probably be the opposite, where the setting is a little disturbing without going into specific details.



Way of the Wicked had prologue advice on this theme too.
As truly evil and vile villains (the characters) may be doing something, that would disturb the players.

The general idea was to not go too far for the comfort level of your group.
And to be willing to fade the scene away, without going beyond the boundaries of the players.

Evil groups tend to dissolve, if they're played properly.

The first book I believe is a free download, on Drive Thru.
You'd get access to the prologue that discusses the flaws of evil groups, and how the scenario can run to overcome the inherent difficulties of those kinds of games.