Looking For Some Scouting Advice...

[FerretCannon]

In the campaign I currently play, scouting ahead to see what might be in store for the party is never done. The party enters nearly every combat with no idea of what it might be facing, no tactics prepared, and no hope of getting a surprise round. This is done partly because of some character RP choices and partly because some of the players don't really care. That campaign is winding down and a new one will start soon after. I'm thinking that in the new campaign (likely to be CoS if that matters) it might be fun to try for a style of play where scouting, preparation, and tactics do enter into the equation. I'm guessing I will probably have to be the party scout if I want that to happen, but that is not a role that is very familiar to me. I typically gravitate towards casters or gish-type characters, but I am willing to branch out.

So with that being said, here is what I would like to hear about from the community:

A) Mechanical stuff - What build do you like that excels at scouting ahead and allowing the party to gain advantage either by gathering useful information and/or acting directly with the advantage of surprise? Rogue seems like the default class here, but I would love to hear about any class (or MC) that you think is effective in this role.

B) Tricks of the trade - Do you have scouting tips and tricks that you have found effective? Are there any spells, skills, or items that you have found to be particularly useful in this role?

C) Stories - Tell us about your successes and your failures. Why do you enjoy playing this role?

Thanks in advance folks! Happy Gaming!

[ClintACK]

0th order answer -- make sure the rest of the Players are interested in a more scout-and-plan game. If they're not, you could end up like the high-Charisma Bard built to be the diplomancer in a party that thinks "talking" is the thing you do to distract people while they get in position to backstab and flank.


With party buy-in -- three good options:

1) Rogue with stealth expertise and a druid or ranger in the party to cast Pass without a Trace. Good luck to anyone trying to spot you.

2) Warlock with Pact of the Chain. Invisible flying scout in telepathic contact with you. And if it dies, it just takes an hour to replace.

3) Land Druid. Pass without a Trace. Wildshape into something that fits the environment you're scouting in. Go.

The advantage of #2 is: you can also be the Charismatic everyone's-best-friend gatherer of information. (Fey Patron for happiness with Friends and Charm Person, or GOO Patron and you suck the information straight out of their heads.)

Actually, the biggest advantage of #2 is that you're sitting in camp with the rest of the party relaying the information to them in real-time, rather than having to get back to the party to tell them what you've seen. This can make the scouting scene much more interactive and everyone-plays, rather than the "bathroom break" when the Rogue goes on his one-on-one with the DM.

The advantage of #3 is: if you can scout out the enemy a day in advance, you have a *huge* range of options to prepare to face the known enemy.

[Human Paragon 3]

Another key to scouting is to be very mobile, not just very stealthy. There are a couple reasons for this.

First, there's the chance you will get caught scouting, which means you need to have the ability to flee or you may find yourself vastly outmatched by whatever you found.

Second, it opens up some tactical options, such as laying an ambush, and then leading the enemy into the ambush. This won't work if they're faster than you and catch you before you get to the ambush zone. Of course, this is only a viable tactic after you know what you're up against.

The final reason to be mobile is that sometimes you might actually want to deliberately engage the enemy to gauge their strength before going back to your party. For instance, imagine you scout ahead and find six knights in plate mail. You have some sense of their capabilities, but you won't know how powerful they are unless you try to fight them. Having a fast combat with them and then fleeing gives you a lot more info than just watching them. You could learn their AC, attack bonus, average damage, spells and abilities, and tactics this way from just a couple rounds of combat. If you can count on being able to flee, this is very worthwhile. Yes, you will have alerted them to your presence, but there's nothing saying you need to engage them again today, or ever. This is frequently what scouts actually do in modern warfare.

[jok]

The real problem with scouting is that it is often a solo job.

Consider a standart dungeon setting:
The party does nothing while one player is exploring the dungeon and playing the sneaky mini game with the DM. If the players don't meta game the scout player is always deciding wich way to take, wich door to open and the first to interact with any interesting enviroment. Only when the scout player finds some monster the party can join the game.

The other problem is that one or two bad stealth rolls can put the scout face to face with an enemy that is a challenging fight for a full four person party. This is probably his death unless the DM is pulling punshes.

Now if everyone in the party is alittle sneaky, that would fix all these problems. The scout only needs to sneak a few yards ahead to peak around the corners.

Another option would be to use spells, summons or other abilities like the new ranger enemy radar as scouts.

[djreynolds]

The rogue, for just 2 levels, grants you expertise in 2 skills and cunning action.

Stealth and perception and the ability to dash twice a turn to get away, all for a 13 in dex

Uncanny dodge, if you get caught at 5th level

2 more skills with expertise

Evasion at 7th level and dex save proficiency when you are running away and the enemy wizard is throwing fireballs at you

Now a bard and ranger have good stuff, and there are plenty of multiclassing things you can do.

I think a rogue 6-9 levels, going with Arcane trickster here and the rest wizard, gives you a lot to work with. Very solo type, expertise in persuasion or deception, and maybe expertise in arcana for counterspelling purposes. A big spellbook chock full of goodies, utility spells and you can still damage

[JellyPooga]

In no particular order;

- Druids are probaly the best scouts, with both Wild Shape and PWT by 5th level. Add in later game options like being able to earth glide to round out the suite.

- Dipping Rogue 2 for Expertise and Cunning Action is a solid choice for any scout.

- Lore Bard can get Expertise, PWT and (Greater) Invisibility, combining some of the best scouting options into one easy package. Late game, they can also add Etherealness, Pass Wall and any other spell you care to mention. Bards make very good magical scouts.

- Anyone can pick up Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for Find Familiar.

- Chain Warlocks get an invisible familiar that can talk; much more useful than the other, non-invisible kind. Add Darkness+Devils Sight shenanigans.

- Earth Genasi get PWT 1/day, I believe (I'm AFB, so you might want to check this).

- Shadow Monks can do a lot with Darkness and Silence.

- Don't overlook Gaseous Form for scouting; being able to turn into a cloud of smoke and drift through a keyhole, under a door, through a window or grate without having to open it (if there even is an opening mechanism) is great for scouting. Slow, perhaps, but subtle.

[JellyPooga]

The real problem with scouting is that it is often a solo job.

There are some workarounds to this particular problem.

Magic is the easy answer; Pass Without Trace is a party buff with a duration of an hour, allowing even the Dex-dumped Plate-mailed Fighter to do some sneaking. Alter Self, Invisibility, Gaseous Form, Fly even Enhance Ability are all good low level scouting tools that can be shared around somewhat. At higher levels, the likes of Scrying, Arcane Eye and the other divinations become more useful tools because they allow the party to stay safely away from any danger, rendering more mundane scouting relatively useless, so long as you're willing to expend the spell slots (Diviner Wizards come in handy for this).

Beast Sense is a ritual spell available to even the Barbarian, allowing the user to piggy-back the senses of an animal. If that animal is doing some scouting for you (e.g. a Beastmaster Rangers companion), great. Better yet is the Warlocks Gaze of Two Minds, allowing you to piggy-back the party scout himself; this reduces the delay of waiting for the scout to report back, allowing him to get on with scouting while the party catches up and if he gets in trouble, the party can come dashing to the rescue. Unfortunately, Familiars are neither humanoid nor beast and as such, cannot benefit from either of these options. They do, however, have their own perks.

Having the party "buy-in" to Stealth proficiency during character gen isn't that bad of an idea; it's easy to do and even with Disadvantage from heavy armour, you can still have a decent chance of beating the typically quite poor Passive Perception of a given foe and if you're using the Group Check rules you only need half the party to succeed.

tl;dr - If you want to avoid the solo-scouting problem;
1) Party-wide Stealth prof.
2) Send someone else to scout for you (e.g. animal companion, familiar).
3) Use magic. Magic solves everything.

[djreynolds]

In no particular order;

- Druids are probaly the best scouts, with both Wild Shape and PWT by 5th level. Add in later game options like being able to earth glide to round out the suite.

- Dipping Rogue 2 for Expertise and Cunning Action is a solid choice for any scout.

- Lore Bard can get Expertise, PWT and (Greater) Invisibility, combining some of the best scouting options into one easy package. Late game, they can also add Etherealness, Pass Wall and any other spell you care to mention. Bards make very good magical scouts.

- Anyone can pick up Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for Find Familiar.

- Chain Warlocks get an invisible familiar that can talk; much more useful than the other, non-invisible kind. Add Darkness+Devils Sight shenanigans.

- Earth Genasi get PWT 1/day, I believe (I'm AFB, so you might want to check this).

- Shadow Monks can do a lot with Darkness and Silence.

- Don't overlook Gaseous Form for scouting; being able to turn into a cloud of smoke and drift through a keyhole, under a door, through a window or grate without having to open it (if there even is an opening mechanism) is great for scouting. Slow, perhaps, but subtle.


I was going to suggest, a champion in full plate with remarkable athlete,

but, Mr Pooga's advice is better than mine. This great stuff. Very thorough.

I'm stealing the druid idea.

[JellyPooga]

Ooh, one other thing; Nondetection is essential for any "mundane" (i.e. not divination focused) scout at higher levels, to avoid the attention of magical sensors. This makes Deep Gnomes very good scouts, especially at higher levels. Having Advantage to Stealth in rocky terrain and 120ft Darkvision is icing on the cake.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Rogue 1/Shadow Monk is hands-down the best Scout, bar none. Expertise in Stealth and Perception and a Dex/Wis focus means your base checks are great, and you can cast Pass Without Trace for the +10 more times than anyone. (Plus, casting Minor Illusion with nothing but a somatic component is gold)