Phantom's Eye
2016-10-29, 07:17 PM
Since I'm kind of in the zone, I was helping one of my players with her spell load out offering advice on what spells she should take from a roleplaying standpoint and of course combat standpoint. I was looking at most of the spells from the lower-tiered spell selection, 1-3 and was blown away.
Not because she had chosen any bad spells, but because some of the spells she chosen virtually became useless as you level on during the campaign or we just limited from the start. I understand that once you become more attune with spells, you will just switch this out in favor or better spells, or higher-tiered spells. But it shouldn't be that way. It should be the other way around. You want to use your high-level/costing spells as a last resort or when you fight a difficult enemy.
Of course some of the low-tiered spells could help you in a fight with powerful encounters, but for the most part are used out of combat. (Which is fine, not disputing that).
I just feel that low-tiered spells should get stronger or become more effective as you level up. As you become more attune with magic.
Take sleep for an example. Sleep is an amazing spell that puts 4HD worth of creatures that fail their save to sleep rendering them helpless. Great in the beginning, but as we move on in the campaign it becomes useless.
Color Spray is another example of a spell that is amazing in the beginning puts low level creatures in serve stun, I also think knocking them unconscious at low levels/2HD or less. While stunning a high hitdice creature for 1 round.
I'm sure there are more spells out there that you can list that are great in the beginning but begin to fade as the campaign moves forward. So I was thinking of a way to improve these spells without completely going over-board with it.
Problem is that it might not be balanced. Personally, I don't care too much about balancing issues but there are other players that are strict about maintaining balance. I'm on the fence most of the time.
I should explain what I've have planned to help spell casters in general for both players and Dungeon Masters/Monsters. (Besides modifying every spell....)
1. Spells that effect creature HD (At first, I thought about just removing the HD restriction, but that would make all spells overpowered. So I thought of something like this. ''Spells that have HD requirements improve as you spell caster becomes more powerful.'' If your sleep spell could only effect 4HD now it has the potential to increase its hitdice depending on your spellcaster level. For 3rd, spell casters can cast sleep to affect all creatures with 7HD (4 + Caster Level).
2. Spells that Summon Creatures (This one is kind of a mix bag, but i think it would be fair to summon creatures with CR 'Challenge Rating) equal to your caster level + depending on the level of the spell. So at third level you could summon creatures with a total CR of (4) at third level with summon monster 1. At 10th level, you could summon creatures with a total CR of (12) with monster. The trick is that the higher level you are the more powerful your summoned creature is. This is not counting the feats you could take. And if you don't want to take summon monster 2,3,4, and etc... You could just stick with summon monster 1 and summon creatures with a total CR of (11). There of course would be restricts on what you could summon. But for the most part you still have a could minion to rely on.
3. Creating undead (Again mix bag. I think if you create a creature you have power over it. Simple as that. Your creating it using matierals and your own magicka. You have power of it. When creating said undead creature you could only create a creature with challenge rating equal to your caster level. If you chose create greater undead spell, you gain a +5 bonus to create the undead creature. Around 18th level you could create an undead creature that is loyal to you with the CR of 18 without create greater undead, CR of 23 with Create Greater Undead. The thing is though, you could create any undead as long as the CR equal to your caster level. If you want to create multiple undead zombies you can as long as their total CR is equal to your Caster level.)
4. Spells that Deal Minimal Damage (This one is a lot easier to do, basically spells in general that deal damage, deals +1 damage equal to your caster level.)
5. Spells that have 1 round effects (This one needs fixing, but the best i could do is that the effects last an extra +1 round/1/2caster level. With color spray you could at least stun the boss for 2 rounds instead of 1 round and possibly more.)
For now that is really all i could think off right on top of my head. This may seem overpower and I'm incline to agree, but bare in mind I haven't implemented this house rule, and this would also effect the bad guys as well.
So I'm blowing off some steam while trying to find some way to improve spells in general. If there is a thread like this, or if you handle a similar situation, would you mind pointing me in the right direction. I would also like to read if you have any thoughts on this matter.
Thanks and sorry for this rant....
--Phantom's Eye
Not because she had chosen any bad spells, but because some of the spells she chosen virtually became useless as you level on during the campaign or we just limited from the start. I understand that once you become more attune with spells, you will just switch this out in favor or better spells, or higher-tiered spells. But it shouldn't be that way. It should be the other way around. You want to use your high-level/costing spells as a last resort or when you fight a difficult enemy.
Of course some of the low-tiered spells could help you in a fight with powerful encounters, but for the most part are used out of combat. (Which is fine, not disputing that).
I just feel that low-tiered spells should get stronger or become more effective as you level up. As you become more attune with magic.
Take sleep for an example. Sleep is an amazing spell that puts 4HD worth of creatures that fail their save to sleep rendering them helpless. Great in the beginning, but as we move on in the campaign it becomes useless.
Color Spray is another example of a spell that is amazing in the beginning puts low level creatures in serve stun, I also think knocking them unconscious at low levels/2HD or less. While stunning a high hitdice creature for 1 round.
I'm sure there are more spells out there that you can list that are great in the beginning but begin to fade as the campaign moves forward. So I was thinking of a way to improve these spells without completely going over-board with it.
Problem is that it might not be balanced. Personally, I don't care too much about balancing issues but there are other players that are strict about maintaining balance. I'm on the fence most of the time.
I should explain what I've have planned to help spell casters in general for both players and Dungeon Masters/Monsters. (Besides modifying every spell....)
1. Spells that effect creature HD (At first, I thought about just removing the HD restriction, but that would make all spells overpowered. So I thought of something like this. ''Spells that have HD requirements improve as you spell caster becomes more powerful.'' If your sleep spell could only effect 4HD now it has the potential to increase its hitdice depending on your spellcaster level. For 3rd, spell casters can cast sleep to affect all creatures with 7HD (4 + Caster Level).
2. Spells that Summon Creatures (This one is kind of a mix bag, but i think it would be fair to summon creatures with CR 'Challenge Rating) equal to your caster level + depending on the level of the spell. So at third level you could summon creatures with a total CR of (4) at third level with summon monster 1. At 10th level, you could summon creatures with a total CR of (12) with monster. The trick is that the higher level you are the more powerful your summoned creature is. This is not counting the feats you could take. And if you don't want to take summon monster 2,3,4, and etc... You could just stick with summon monster 1 and summon creatures with a total CR of (11). There of course would be restricts on what you could summon. But for the most part you still have a could minion to rely on.
3. Creating undead (Again mix bag. I think if you create a creature you have power over it. Simple as that. Your creating it using matierals and your own magicka. You have power of it. When creating said undead creature you could only create a creature with challenge rating equal to your caster level. If you chose create greater undead spell, you gain a +5 bonus to create the undead creature. Around 18th level you could create an undead creature that is loyal to you with the CR of 18 without create greater undead, CR of 23 with Create Greater Undead. The thing is though, you could create any undead as long as the CR equal to your caster level. If you want to create multiple undead zombies you can as long as their total CR is equal to your Caster level.)
4. Spells that Deal Minimal Damage (This one is a lot easier to do, basically spells in general that deal damage, deals +1 damage equal to your caster level.)
5. Spells that have 1 round effects (This one needs fixing, but the best i could do is that the effects last an extra +1 round/1/2caster level. With color spray you could at least stun the boss for 2 rounds instead of 1 round and possibly more.)
For now that is really all i could think off right on top of my head. This may seem overpower and I'm incline to agree, but bare in mind I haven't implemented this house rule, and this would also effect the bad guys as well.
So I'm blowing off some steam while trying to find some way to improve spells in general. If there is a thread like this, or if you handle a similar situation, would you mind pointing me in the right direction. I would also like to read if you have any thoughts on this matter.
Thanks and sorry for this rant....
--Phantom's Eye