OOTS #351 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Brickwall]

Elan is awesome in this one! I can't wait until the cryptogram translation is up!

Editation: Booyah, first post!

[Exachix]

isn't the comic 351? EDIT: IT is 351!

And it's the first post! whoot!

EDIT: fine second.

And that's another fine comic!

[Oblivion]

Poor poor Elan... I love him so much and yet, he's so sadly dumb. Meh, guess that's why he's so charming! :P

*Insert here the obligatory woot first page*

[kamoo]

1st page

GOOOOOOOD comic

Non-NALE...Great!

[Finwe]

wow, two comics in one day!



I wonder what Nale has in store for Elan. I would have thought that he'd kill Elan right there. Maybe he wants to gloat first.

[orcmonk89]

Woot first page. Another great comic Rich.

[Manticorkscrew]

Ah, the Giant has set us a cunning pop quiz question!

Is this 351 or 352?

Hmm... I don't know. :o

Poor Elan. His relationship with Nale reminds me of mine with my sister. Including the stabbing and hitting.

[Sneak]

Here's the obligatory "Woot! First page!"

[Rolaran]

"yay! time for fun!"

When a half-orc says "fun", I say "a scene of unimaginable carnage".

This oughta be good.

EDIT: Also, first page w00t.

[Midnight Son]

The Giant must have built up a lot of comic pressure in his soul while only posting one or two a week. We're just witnessing the breaking of the dam.

Put some ranks in spot already.(or get a dog) You'd think they woulda learned after the first few comics in book one, but, no, they're too good for spot.

Edit: Damn! I was hoping for Page 2! ::)

[Dudukain]

fIRST PAGE!!!!

FIRST TIME EVER!!!


Oh yeah...I rock...

anyway, does anyone else wonder why it looks like thog's axe is going THROUGH Elan's head instead of against it...Did Thog just slice Elan's head open?

[Evil_Pacifist]

Lovely, lovely comic.

And I suppose you'll hang me if I don't say "W00t! First page!"...

W00t! First page.

[Shular]

Hey! Leave poor Elan alone. He's harmless.


Edit: Errr, spelled Elan's name backward

[Michael_Proteau]

OOTS 352? I guess that's what we get when we let Elan number the strips ;)

Hmm it seems Nale forgot to account for our trembling dwarf in his recap, maybe he can overcome his fear of trees to save the day for our troubled bard.

I have really been enjoying the strip since the August interegnum ended.

-M

[tmacdevitt]

Awesome, Thanks Rich.

Whoot! page two! ;)

Thank you for posting based upon your own schedule, it really helps to know you can count on an OOTS fix!

[Abelard]

"He was a good father"

Ha!

Not with a capital "G", I suppose!

[greenoak]

Ahh.... but where's sis?

[Orzel]

Elan can really take an axe blow.
But it is really just a d12.

poor Elan
Nice comic

[Winged One]

"He was a good father!" "He was a better fassion accessory!" ;D

[fangthane]

What happened to #351? :)

Good comic even though the post here has the wrong number (until/unless changed) :)

Nothing like suspense over the weekend :)

[Guzame]

Great comic,Rich, as usual!

Edit: Yay first post ever and second page, if i didn't have to register i would've been first 8).

[mikeyq6]

"But he was a better fashion accessory..."

Classic Belkor!

Being picky, but, shouldn't "orchastrated' actually be "orchestrated"?

Oh, and the 'BONK' sound when the axe hit Elan's head, I guess that was because Thog hit him with the flat of the blade, which also explains the lack of blood.

Nice work Giant!

[Nerd-o-rama]

TIME PARADOX!

Heh. "He was a better fashion accessory." Belkar is a far better villain than Rugen ever was.

Now, what could be in that knapsack that's so important? Elan's PB&J? A Helm of Opposite Alignment?

[Dragon_Rider]

Hey, what is Nale holding throughout the entire strip? Looks like some sort of bag.

[Cythraul]

The tension mounts...

Edit... insert 'obligatory second page comment' here

[ikcor]

I'm going to guess that Haley is saying "Here, Kitty, kitty, kitty."

Yes, it's a bird, but "birdy" doesn't work.

[SumGuy]

"But he was a better fashion accessory"

priceless.

well, not the fashion accessory, the joke.

[Sky_Schemer]

Oooooo. A cliff hanger ending!

[Shea Landford]

Woot! Second page!
lol. "Time for fun!" and "not-nale"
Also a good recap of the current plotline.

[Dawnstrider_Moogle]

BONK!! made me laugh really, really loud and I'm not too sure why. :P

But...did Thog just sneak-attack? I guess he's got a +plot axe.

edit: the third page belongs to me. I'M SO RAD.

[UtherSRG]

I'm going to guess that Haley is saying "Here, Kitty, kitty, kitty."

Yes, it's a bird, but "birdy" doesn't work.


I do believe you are correct!

[Felinoid]

Hmm. Good joke between Belkar and Yokyok, but otherwise predictable. It barely even moves the plot a centimeter, and character development...well, we already knew Nale was like this. It's a good placeholder, but not up to the usual standards. I wait in anticipation of the next. :)

EDIT: And since this is a new page, I'll reiterate for any reading mods that the thread title seems to be a little off.

[fangthane]

Maybe it was a called-bonk and applied a fort save DC 10+damage or get conked out. And we all know what a bard's bad save is, right? :)

That's my thought, anyhow. In any case, as has been said before, where the rules interfere with (as opposed to enhancing) plot and humor, they take a back seat.

@Tarak - Pretty much has to be, I'd think.

[Zeikz]

Awesome Comic Giant!

=) I laughed out loud at work, and once again my coworkers thought I was crazy...nothing new, really...

Anyway great comic!

[AyuVince]

Page 3! I've never been so close to the first page! Woot!

Brilliant strip, Giant. I absolutely loved Belkar's comment. Can't wait to see how the "SWAT team" will save everyone's wererat's asses.

[bosssmiley]

Methinks Belkar *still* managed to steal the show. ;D

"He was a better fashion accessory."

[Tobimaro]

"The jerkiest jerk of all." That about sums it up for Nale. And we get the answer of where Thog was at.

Now, as someone else said, what's in the knapsack? ???

And I'm kinda wondering what the strip title means? ???

[Aereshaa_the_2nd]

This is the closest I have ever gotten to first page.
Anyways...
I loved the BONK! I laughed out loud. Can't wait till next comic!

[eswan9]

Nice! ;D

[soni]

yay! Thog showed up!

[dragonspar]

I have to say, not exactly laugh out loud funny. but i'm not knocking it, not all can be that way, but at least it did move plot.
I have to agree though, the fashion accessory comment was great

[Adeptus]

Ip! Poor Elan, and poor V.

It's not looking good for our heroes.

[Lerch]

I'd have to agree with Here, kitty kitty kitty. (although I'm not any good with cryptograms) in a bout of sarcasm that's what I'd say....

[Heloisa]

OMG!

Poor Elan!!! :'(

[DArKandEViL]

Ohhh, poor Elan

But why'd he take Elan, Revenge? Or just to prove a point?

[silvadel]

Looks like the good guys are down for the count. I am a nastier GM than the giant though (and the fact that this could never happen as it would end the strip ....) I would have them locked up and sabrine knock em all down to level 0 or 1, have the time for restoration lapse then let them go as newbs or permanewbs.

[theKOT]

Hmm. Good joke between Belkar and Yokyok, but otherwise predictable. It barely even moves the plot a centimeter, and character development...well, we already knew Nale was like this. It's a good placeholder, but not up to the usual standards.
I whole-heartedly agree. This strip was just.... uninteresting. Meh, hopefully this is all going somewhere. That napsack thing seems to be important, but it could have debuted in a more interesting way. We already knew the OOTS was tied up fighting, why did nale bother talking to Elan? He could have had thog knock him out in panel 1! This feels like the Giant had a few things he wanted to show us and blew that into a full-length strip, when it required maybe two, three panels TOPS. Oh well, Guess there's nothing I can do but sit tight and wait for the next one.

[Ezbez]

Nale's in trouble now - they left Elan's banjo/lute/assorted string instrument behind!

[TinSoldier]

theKOT and Felinoid: I disagree about the plot. I thought that this was a very important strip to moving the plot along. Certainly much more than 349. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html)

There was only a little humor, but that's to be expected from time to time. I'm satisfied with the quality of this strip.

I am also very happy to be surprised by the strip being posted early! Yay, go Giant!

It's too bad that Elan didn't get one of his flash intuition insights that he gets from time to time. As a bard he usually seems to understand plotting and storyline meta-info a lot better than he did in this strip.

[Draz74]

Q1: Knocking out Elan with one blow? This could, of course, be purely plot-driven. But let's look at it in RAW terms.

Thog had a -4 penalty on his attack due to striking with the flat of the blade, and a +2 bonus for flanking, for a total of a -2 penalty to his normal attack bonus.
Elan's flat-footed AC is probably just 14 (for his chain shirt).
I'll assume Thog has a +6 Strength modifier, even while not raging. That's actually pretty conservative, considering he gets a racial Strength bonus and could have magic items enhancing him. He also has a +3 greataxe.
If he used full Power Attack (even though it would be smarter to use only -8 Power Attack, it would be less dramatic), it would leave him with a +7 bonus to hit. That means he'll hit Elan as long as he rolls at least a 7. Which apparently he does.

Then he does an average of 42.5 damage. Hmm, that's still not enough to force a Fort save or go unconsious, and it seems like Elan would have more HP than that. Well, maybe Thog has other bonuses we don't know about. Or happened to roll a crit (which would EASILY lay out Elan with only a moderate Power Attack, with x3 damage). Point is, it's not too unreasonable by RAW to knock Elan out in one hit.

Q2: What's in the knapsack? Could it possibly be a fake goatee, about to be used in a Disguise check?

Q3: They just leave the lute behind. Who will find it? How upset will they be that Elan has been abducted?

I loved Belkar's inability to stay afraid for very long; he banters even as he runs for his life. I'm surprised that Nale has learned to respect Roy's tactical abilities (it was pure luck, as far as he's concerned, that the Order beat him last time by shooting his amulet ...).

[Kinneus]

"All I see is that you’re a mean jerk. A jerky jerk. The jerkiest jerk of them all."
Good stuff.
I wonder what Nale is planning...

[charik]

Almost everything is going according to plan for Nale; he even anticipated the cops showing up. But, good for the Order, there's still one loose thread he doesn't know of yet.

[Faramir]

Q2: What's in the knapsack? Could it possibly be a fake goatee, about to be used in a Disguise check?



That was my guess too.

Belkar gets the best line this time around.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Q1: Knocking out Elan with one blow? This could, of course, be purely plot-driven. But let's look at it in RAW terms.

Thog had a -4 penalty on his attack due to striking with the flat of the blade, and a +2 bonus for flanking, for a total of a -2 penalty to his normal attack bonus.
Elan's flat-footed AC is probably just 14 (for his chain shirt).
I'll assume Thog has a +6 Strength modifier, even while not raging. That's actually pretty conservative, considering he gets a racial Strength bonus and could have magic items enhancing him. He also has a +3 greataxe.
If he used full Power Attack (even though it would be smarter to use only -8 Power Attack, it would be less dramatic), it would leave him with a +7 bonus to hit. That means he'll hit Elan as long as he rolls at least a 7. Which apparently he does.

Then he does an average of 42.5 damage. Hmm, that's still not enough to force a Fort save or go unconsious, and it seems like Elan would have more HP than that. Well, maybe Thog has other bonuses we don't know about. Or happened to roll a crit (which would EASILY lay out Elan with only a moderate Power Attack, with x3 damage). Point is, it's not too unreasonable by RAW to knock Elan out in one hit.

Q2: What's in the knapsack? Could it possibly be a fake goatee, about to be used in a Disguise check?

Q3: They just leave the lute behind. Who will find it? How upset will they be that Elan has been abducted?

I loved Belkar's inability to stay afraid for very long; he banters even as he runs for his life. I'm surprised that Nale has learned to respect Roy's tactical abilities (it was pure luck, as far as he's concerned, that the Order beat him last time by shooting his amulet ...).

Thog's strength modifier increases according to the needs of the plot. Hell, all stats are whim to the needs of the plot.

[Aerysil1]

Poor little abandoned lute, lying there in the alley, all alone...

[Oppolo]

I'm going to guess that Haley is saying "Here, Kitty, kitty, kitty."

Yes, it's a bird, but "birdy" doesn't work.


Remember, the bird's name is Kitty.

[Iruka]

I think I know now, what Nale's plan is ;D
he's such a meany

[Martok]

"He was a good father!" "He was a better fassion accessory!" ;D
This is why I love Belkar. :P

Great strip, Rich (as usual)!

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

I don't know about you guys, but I never have hated Nale for him being "a big meanie" (as Elan would say), but with this strip I find that I hate him.

Get off these filhty hands from Elan, you Elan wannabe! ;)

In regard to the the comments that The King of Town (hey, man, where's Poopsmith?) and Felinoid said about this comic, you know, I disagree. :) I really think that a complete comic is not just made of punchlines every strip, but with plot advances and character developments. This is a story, there is a plotline here. OTOH, the most gianter of us have managed to do all these said things in just one comic before.

Oh, and I love OotS. Sorry, just had to say it. :D

[Bilbo27]

Oh my, Nale has actually outsmarted the OOTS.

If ever a plot hook or railroading needed to happen!

Loved it!

[KeiranHalcyon]

Oh my, Nale has actually outsmarted the OOTS.
Actually, I consider the fact that Nale's grand plan seems to be working to be a wild stroke of luck, as it all depended on Roy's glaring tactical error of splitting up the party. Unless I missed something that gave him a good reason to split up the party.

Anyone else notice that the background of frame one (V getting wumphed by the trees) is identical to the background of frame one in #348?

[TinSoldier]

In regard to the the comments that The King of Town (hey, man, where's Poopsmith?) and Felinoid said about this comic, you know, I disagree. :) I really think that a complete comic is not just made of punchlines every strip, but with plot advances and character developments. This is a story, there is a plotline here. OTOH, the most gianter of us have managed to do all these said things in just one comic before.They've been around for awhile and while I can't speak for them they know that not every strip has to be a laugh-fest.

I enjoy reading the well-thought-out criticism that theKOT usually writes. I usually like Felinoid's posts, too.

I just disagree that this episode didn't move the plot along. I thought that this episode of OotS was more plot than humor.

[kunou126]

Haley is saying: "Here, Kitty kitty kitty".

That seems to make the most sense in the context, considering the bird's name.

As for the sack? I think Nale is going to frame Elan for the murders he's been committing. Why else would he want the cops there?

And if you think about it, the cops did have composite sketches and plenty of eye witnesses to the murders. All is setup for what is about to happen.

[fangthane]

If it weren't for the fact that Elan has been knocked insensible (or moreso) by Thog, I'm sure he'd be able to explain the purpose of the strip himself; regardless of milieu, any Villain so close to the successful and flawless culmination of his master plan is actually required by the Rules As Extant (RAE) to divulge his sinister cunning in a showdown with his opponent. That's what this strip is about. In most cases, it's then the opponent who figures a way out; I think we can safely rule out that possibility here, but regardless Nale has to maintain certain criteria or lose his Villain certification. It's easy enough to renew, but I doubt even he would want to re-sit the theoretical exam.

[Querzis]

Oh my, Nale has actually outsmarted the OOTS.

If ever a plot hook or railroading needed to happen!

Loved it!

Thats nothing new, as far as I know he outsmarted them last time too and he was defeated because Roy knew Haley was gonna roll a 20. But this time a 20 is not gonna save the OOTS. Go Linear Guild.

[TheDRaconicLord]

And now, we have truly reached the climax. The "General" has played his cards, and he has played well. Elan was captured but Nale has now a flaw on his amazing plan. Roy's sis is loose. That tiny flaw is going to destroy everything I reckon.

Anyway, great comic. I especially enjoyed the Yikyik and Belkar :D

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

They've been around for awhile and while I can't speak for them they know that not every strip has to be a laugh-fest.


Yes, I know that. They're Barbarians or something, I'm just a Pixie. :D

I didn't mean they don't know it. I just said that I like the comics with no little or no humor too. Like these ones. :)

[Kish]

"The jerkiest jerk of all." That about sums it up for Nale.
He doesn't have a chance of that title while Belkar is around. :P Kill him slowly, Yokyok.

[Varian7]

Haley is saying: "Here, Kitty kitty kitty".

That seems to make the most sense in the context, considering the bird's name.

As for the sack? I think Nale is going to frame Elan for the murders he's been committing. Why else would he want the cops there?

And if you think about it, the cops did have composite sketches and plenty of eye witnesses to the murders. All is setup for what is about to happen.

I agree absolutely. Poor Elan!

[Wolfwood2]

It's now fairly obvious what Nale is up to. He's not going to kill Elan.

He's going to replace Elan.

What other reason to distract all of Elan's friends? It's so none of them will have a chance to see the switch.


And you know, that offers so many interesting plot possibilities that I think he may just succeed.

[Seffbasilisk]

Yay Thog!

[TinSoldier]

Wolfwood2, that seriously needs to be colored for spoiler!

Otherwise, wow! Great prediction!

[fithi]

Poor, poor Elan.

I was mildly amused by this one, but not chuckling as much as previous comics. I'm looking forward to the conclusion of this sideplot and getting back to Xykon.

[Grey Watcher]

It's now fairly obvious what Nale is up to....

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Agthorr]

Is this the first time a character refers to V as "V"? I thought that was just slang forum-speak, but maybe I just don't recall.

[Kish]

Is this the first time a character refers to V as "V"?
No, this is. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html)

[Abthek]

"And I'm kinda wondering what the strip title means?"


The strip title refers to the questioning that nale gave elan when he was trying to get elan to figure out what it was all about.. lol.

good comic giant

[theKOT]

theKOT and Felinoid: I disagree about the plot. I thought that this was a very important strip to moving the plot along. Certainly much more than 349. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html)

There was only a little humor, but that's to be expected from time to time. I'm satisfied with the quality of this strip.


I know. That's why I also disliked 349 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1158637696 ;start=53#53). I just don't see how this comic advances the plot more than 2-3 panels could. What significance does Nale and Elan's little dialog have? We already knew the team was tied up, and Nale's plan was extremely obvious. We didn't need to be told what was going on, we could have been shown it. I gave my reasons for disliking this comic in my original post, and would be interested in hearing why you enjoyed it.


In regard to the the comments that The King of Town (hey, man, where's Poopsmith?) and Felinoid said about this comic, you know, I disagree. :) I really think that a complete comic is not just made of punchlines every strip, but with plot advances and character developments. This is a story, there is a plotline here. OTOH, the most gianter of us have managed to do all these said things in just one comic before.

Oh, and I love OotS. Sorry, just had to say it. :D
I don't mind a comic with NO jokes. My favorite plotline was the Miko arc. While that certainly had its own share of humor, I enjoyed the plot comics much more. But if a comic is not going to be funny, I like to see serious plot advancement. Which I did not see in this one.

[nougat]

"And I'm kinda wondering what the strip title means?"
The title is a direct quote from the movie Speed, to which the answer is probably "shoot the hostage."

[TinSoldier]

I just don't see how this comic advances the plot more than 2-3 panels could. What significance does Nale and Elan's little dialog have? We already knew the team was tied up, and Nale's plan was extremely obvious. We didn't need to be told what was going on, we could have been shown it. I gave my reasons for disliking this comic in my original post, and would be interested in hearing why you enjoyed it.Meh. Maybe it could have been shorter. #349 certainly could have been.

I like the little jokes even though none of them were LOL funny to me. I like Nale's exposition, such as villains are wont to give. (Well, it's exposition inasmuch as he's making Elan figure it out.) I think it sets up for the next strip containing Elan and Nale quite nicely. Kind of like a bridge.

No matter what I think this strip was necessary for plot advancement. Maybe this part of the story could have been told in fewer panels and another part of the story added on. Maybe not. That part is subjective, I think.

Hmm. Part of it (that I have a hard time explaining) is the rhythm of the story. If #349 had been shorter then it would have had to have been included with #350 either making it longer or shorter or butting it up with the next comic. Maybe #352 has to have a certain number of panels to explain the story and telling #351 in 2 or 3 or 6 panels would have pushed some of that off into the future and hurt the rhythm...

[Solmage]

I think I have a new quote to add to my funniest oots quotes: "He was a good father!" "He was a better fashion accessory!" :D

[Fillbert]

How very Bond-ish....

Elan: Do you expect me to figure this out?

Nale: No.... I expect you to die!!!

[theKOT]

Meh. Maybe it could have been shorter. #349 certainly could have been.

I like the little jokes even though none of them were LOL funny to me. I like Nale's exposition, such as villains are wont to give. (Well, it's exposition inasmuch as he's making Elan figure it out.) I think it sets up for the next strip containing Elan and Nale quite nicely. Kind of like a bridge.

No matter what I think this strip was necessary for plot advancement. Maybe this part of the story could have been told in fewer panels and another part of the story added on. Maybe not. That part is subjective, I think.

Hmm. Part of it (that I have a hard time explaining) is the rhythm of the story. If #349 had been shorter then it would have had to have been included with #350 either making it longer or shorter or butting it up with the next comic. Maybe #352 has to have a certain number of panels to explain the story and telling #351 in 2 or 3 or 6 panels would have pushed some of that off into the future and hurt the rhythm...

Well, 349 and 351 could have been squished together. Think about it: do the order of these strips really matter? Make 350 into 349, squish 349 and 351 into a new 350, and we have an entire extra comic.

The exposition was unnecessary and tedious.

4/10(I really liked Belkar's joke, but it wasn't enough to carry this comic to a good rating)

[oowatie]

Congratulations, Mr. Giant. You've finally managed to give me a wet keyboard moment, as I was drinking some water when I read the comic.

"But he was a better fashion accessory!"

I'm gonna laugh at that one for weeks. ;D

[SPoD]

We already knew the team was tied up, and Nale's plan was extremely obvious. We didn't need to be told what was going on, we could have been shown it.

You have missed the point of Nale's dialogue. The point here is that Nale is such an egomaniac, he needs to make sure ELAN understands what's going on. He needs Elan to see how smart he is or else he'll never be satisfied. And unfortunately, Elan is a little dense. He does need things spelled out for him.

The key is Nale's line, "I knew this wasn't a wasted effort." It's important to Nale that Elan be capable of grasping the full extent of his situation in order for Nale to enjoy his revenge.

It doesn't matter whether we, the reader, know this information. What matters is that Nale is taking the time out of his plan to make sure Elan understands before he knocks him out cold. I half expect that if Elan hadn't ever been able to grasp the scope of what Nale has done, Nale would have gotten pissed off and said, "You know what? Never mind, this was a waste of time." He craves that feeling of revenge served cold. There would be no point in having Thog knock Elan out in Panel One, because then Nale wouldn't be sure that Elan really understood how screwed he was.

I don't understand why anyone thinks there's some sort of virtue in saving panels, as if panels were this limited resource that needed to be conserved. Yes, Rich could have told this strip in less panels. He also could outline the entire remaining plot of the entire series in a few pages of prose text and save us all the trouble of waiting, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Thundranium_Cube]

Another hapless prediction:

...

Not only will Nale take Elan's place, but he will leave Elan-now-Nale to the mercies of Elan's very own party mates! Tied up and gagged and goateed? Oh my! And don't those city policefolk have rather detailed sketcheries regarding Nale-now-Elan? Hmm.

...

(edit) Oh yeah... and isn't it cute how, even though Thog's already carrying his greataxe and an unconcious bard, Nale still wants him to carry the knapsack too. Thog must have a much better encumberance rating... or he's a lot more lazy than a half-orc.

[EloquentRune]

im glad this new part is coming together and that we might get back to the main plot soon

[Eldhrin]

You have missed the point of Nale's dialogue. The point here is that Nale is such an egomaniac, he needs to make sure ELAN understands what's going on. He needs Elan to see how smart he is or else he'll never be satisfied. And unfortunately, Elan is a little dense. He does need things spelled out for him.

The key is Nale's line, "I knew this wasn't a wasted effort." It's important to Nale that Elan be capable of grasping the full extent of his situation in order for Nale to enjoy his revenge.

It doesn't matter whether we, the reader, know this information. What matters is that Nale is taking the time out of his plan to make sure Elan understands before he knocks him out cold. I half expect that if Elan hadn't ever been able to grasp the scope of what Nale has done, Nale would have gotten pissed off and said, "You know what? Never mind, this was a waste of time." He craves that feeling of revenge served cold. There would be no point in having Thog knock Elan out in Panel One, because then Nale wouldn't be sure that Elan really understood how screwed he was.

I don't understand why anyone thinks there's some sort of virtue in saving panels, as if panels were this limited resource that needed to be conserved. Yes, Rich could have told this strip in less panels. He also could outline the entire remaining plot of the entire series in a few pages of prose text and save us all the trouble of waiting, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

* Applause *

You've summed it up perfectly, SPoD.

As for me, I have only one thing to say:

Yay! Thog's back!

[Bakta]

Not to demean Elan or anything, but given his brain processing power, how come a blow on his head can stun him?. It's like a good kick on anyone's butt, painful but by no means crippling. Elan's brain is really not a critical part of his body.

I'm quite curious here

[battleburn]

I loved the "Truly, your cunningly crafted retort stings my pride."
And of course the evil monologue is just genius.
Sorry the KOT, I don't agree with you.
Ok the plot didn't proceed very much, but the whole comic was a joke. Even though all the readers must understand what is going on, Elan hasn't got a clue. And here you see the reason the evil mastermind always tells the plot.

Pride

The rest of the LG are the "simple henchman" who cares whether they understand the plot. It is his worst enemy that has to understand the full implications of the plan in order to boost his ego. His worst enemy has beaten him before. So he is the only one worthy enough.

So don't read this comic as just another pointing out the obvious, but a necessary plotline development/joke.

-battleburn

[Miklus]

Oh my, V is taking an awful beating there, I'm surpriced (s)he is still alive.

I guess it is up to Durkon and "Sis" to save the day. Is it just me, or has Durkon been consistently unhelpful in all the party's critical battles? Except behaps the one against Xykon? So it is up to "Sis" to save the OotS.

And I agree with the spoilers, it is obvious that Nale wants the CPPD to show up there. He even drew them a map!

[battleburn]

Miklus, the idea of spoilers is that they are not spoken out in this thread except when collored so you cannot read them unless you want to. Reacting to Spoilers should therefore also happen under the same guidelines.
Though in this case it is just a bit to obvious to be a spoiler really ;-)

[Grey Watcher]

Of course, the fact that this Comic was posted on a FRIDAY can't have anything to do with it being all hints and no delivery. I think Rich is trying to whet our appetites for whatever comes next week.

I stand somewhere in the middle on this Comic, yeah, it wasn't chock full of either humor or stunnign plot revelations, but I, for one enjoyed Nale gloating (or at least trying to, given how dense Elan is), and ratcheting up the tension for what's to come. Drama and comedy are both all about timing, and I think if Rich had just rushed and dumped Nale's plot in our laps, it wouldn't be nearly as fun to read. OK, so it's not my favorite OotS Strip Ever, but I find it quite respectable.

[Natsilani]

I gave my reasons for disliking this comic in my original post, and would be interested in hearing why you enjoyed it.

I'd like to answer that, even though you were probably not talking to me :)

We've been speculating over #351 for a while now. It feels a little rewarding to have been right ;). Plus, all the pieces are in place now, which fills me with a happy anticipation. Definitely not something that should be glossed over, in my opinion. And the added perks are the chuckle-worthy gags all over the strip, thus making it overall very enjoyable.

[EmeraldRose]

I have to say I think some of the spoiler predictions make a good point. It will be interesting to see if it comes to pass...

[Felinoid]

You have missed the point of Nale's dialogue. The point here is that Nale is such an egomaniac, he needs to make sure ELAN understands what's going on. He needs Elan to see how smart he is or else he'll never be satisfied. And unfortunately, Elan is a little dense. He does need things spelled out for him.

The key is Nale's line, "I knew this wasn't a wasted effort." It's important to Nale that Elan be capable of grasping the full extent of his situation in order for Nale to enjoy his revenge.

It doesn't matter whether we, the reader, know this information. What matters is that Nale is taking the time out of his plan to make sure Elan understands before he knocks him out cold. I half expect that if Elan hadn't ever been able to grasp the scope of what Nale has done, Nale would have gotten pissed off and said, "You know what? Never mind, this was a waste of time." He craves that feeling of revenge served cold. There would be no point in having Thog knock Elan out in Panel One, because then Nale wouldn't be sure that Elan really understood how screwed he was.

Not really. As I said before, we already know Nale's like that. If this strip had been skipped entirely, with Elan just turning up missing later, you'd be thinking the same thing you are now, that Nale and Thog kidnapped him, and probably after some long-winded speech. The strip is just a placeholder, a safeguard for people who wouldn't have made the leap to the right idea (probably coming out with yet more off-the-wall predictions, which isn't really a bad thing :) ).

Though I have to admit, I am a little curious about what is so important in that knapsack. I think Grey Watcher sums it up well, although I don't feel as good about it as he does.


I don't understand why anyone thinks there's some sort of virtue in saving panels, as if panels were this limited resource that needed to be conserved. Yes, Rich could have told this strip in less panels. He also could outline the entire remaining plot of the entire series in a few pages of prose text and save us all the trouble of waiting, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

It's like blank pages or unnecessary babbling in an essay; it takes up space. But in this case it's space we read, space we spend time on, and more importantly, space Rich spends time on. The filler delays the good stuff, and leaves us jonesing. In the end, it's his story to tell as he wishes, but that doesn't mean I can't be unsatisfied with one particular page.

[Allandaros]

No! They left the lute!

KHAANNNN!!

[Blood]

Well, this will be interesting...

[Daedrous Avari]

GO THOG!

[theKOT]

You have missed the point of Nale's dialogue. The point here is that Nale is such an egomaniac, he needs to make sure ELAN understands what's going on. He needs Elan to see how smart he is or else he'll never be satisfied. And unfortunately, Elan is a little dense. He does need things spelled out for him.

The key is Nale's line, "I knew this wasn't a wasted effort." It's important to Nale that Elan be capable of grasping the full extent of his situation in order for Nale to enjoy his revenge.

It doesn't matter whether we, the reader, know this information. What matters is that Nale is taking the time out of his plan to make sure Elan understands before he knocks him out cold. I half expect that if Elan hadn't ever been able to grasp the scope of what Nale has done, Nale would have gotten pissed off and said, "You know what? Never mind, this was a waste of time." He craves that feeling of revenge served cold. There would be no point in having Thog knock Elan out in Panel One, because then Nale wouldn't be sure that Elan really understood how screwed he was.

I don't understand why anyone thinks there's some sort of virtue in saving panels, as if panels were this limited resource that needed to be conserved. Yes, Rich could have told this strip in less panels. He also could outline the entire remaining plot of the entire series in a few pages of prose text and save us all the trouble of waiting, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
My response to this is Fellinoid's. I have just one thing to add: When making movies, or books, or anything like that, after the rough draft the creators cut things out that they deem unnecessary. At least part of this strip would have been cut out.

I loved the "Truly, your cunningly crafted retort stings my pride."
And of course the evil monologue is just genius.
Sorry the KOT, I don't agree with you.
Ok the plot didn't proceed very much, but the whole comic was a joke. Even though all the readers must understand what is going on, Elan hasn't got a clue. And here you see the reason the evil mastermind always tells the plot.

Pride

The rest of the LG are the "simple henchman" who cares whether they understand the plot. It is his worst enemy that has to understand the full implications of the plan in order to boost his ego. His worst enemy has beaten him before. So he is the only one worthy enough.

So don't read this comic as just another pointing out the obvious, but a necessary plotline development/joke.

-battleburn
But HOW was it necessary? As I said, we knew this before, we didn't need to see Elan being told it. There is no application for the information contained in this comic. It IS pointing out the obvious, which was in no way necessary to the plotline.



I'd like to answer that, even though you were probably not talking to me :)

We've been speculating over #351 for a while now. It feels a little rewarding to have been right ;). Plus, all the pieces are in place now, which fills me with a happy anticipation. Definitely not something that should be glossed over, in my opinion. And the added perks are the chuckle-worthy gags all over the strip, thus making it overall very enjoyable.
You didn't realize that everything was going according to Nale's plan before? That all the pieces were in place? It wasn't screamingly obvious due to the fact that every single character was tied up? The pieces already were in place, this comic was just a page telling us that they were. Anyway, I didn't find the jokes very funny; the only one that was humorous to me was Belkar's statement. I would hardly call anything else in the strip a joke.

[Fillbert]

I'm Jerky The Jerky Jerk, The Jerkiest Jerk in the whole wide Jerk!!!!

[faerwain]

Well, this will be interesting...

Yep..especially as I still remember some bony guy with a handful of minions heading to a certain blue town meanwhile..

[TreesOfDeath]

HORRAY!

*Bonk*

Cool comic

[KeiranHalcyon]

My response to this is Fellinoid's. I have just one thing to add: When making movies, or books, or anything like that, after the rough draft the creators cut things out that they deem unnecessary. At least part of this strip would have been cut out.
Actually, a big reason things get cut from movies is runtime constraints. Rich doesn't have that restriction. I agree with the others, that though this strip isn't necessary, it's almost required of Nale to do it. That is, the strip is a satire of stereotypical egotistical villainous behavior. And yes, we already knew Nale was like that... but what's the point of knowing that he's like that if we don't get to see him being like that from time to time?

Another point I'd like to raise: Elan didn't actually come to a conclusion about the setup before Thog bonked him. "You and me... alone in a secluded alley... with no one to interfere?" That could mean quite a few different things. I personally doubt that Elan is anywhere near "absolutely correct".

[charik]

You didn't realize that everything was going according to Nale's plan before? That all the pieces were in place? It wasn't screamingly obvious due to the fact that every single character was tied up?
My only critique of this is that there was a fair amount of discussion here as to whether Yokyok was in fact a member of the Linear Guild, or if he was coincidental. Nale's exposition settled the matter.

[Woolysock]

Q1: Knocking out Elan with one blow? This could, of course, be purely plot-driven. But let's look at it in RAW terms.

Thog had a -4 penalty on his attack due to striking with the flat of the blade, and a +2 bonus for flanking, for a total of a -2 penalty to his normal attack bonus.
Elan's flat-footed AC is probably just 14 (for his chain shirt).
I'll assume Thog has a +6 Strength modifier, even while not raging. That's actually pretty conservative, considering he gets a racial Strength bonus and could have magic items enhancing him. He also has a +3 greataxe.
If he used full Power Attack (even though it would be smarter to use only -8 Power Attack, it would be less dramatic), it would leave him with a +7 bonus to hit. That means he'll hit Elan as long as he rolls at least a 7. Which apparently he does.

Then he does an average of 42.5 damage. Hmm, that's still not enough to force a Fort save or go unconsious, and it seems like Elan would have more HP than that. Well, maybe Thog has other bonuses we don't know about. Or happened to roll a crit (which would EASILY lay out Elan with only a moderate Power Attack, with x3 damage). Point is, it's not too unreasonable by RAW to knock Elan out in one hit.



Maybe thog has ranks in Stunning Attack...

[theKOT]

My only critique of this is that there was a fair amount of discussion here as to whether Yokyok was in fact a member of the Linear Guild, or if he was coincidental. Nale's exposition settled the matter.

I guess. But it was pretty obvious to me that he was. Besides, it settled nothing. He could simply have known of what Yokyok had done, and his speech would have made perfect sense.


Actually, a big reason things get cut from movies is runtime constraints. Rich doesn't have that restriction. I agree with the others, that though this strip isn't necessary, it's almost required of Nale to do it. That is, the strip is a satire of stereotypical egotistical villainous behavior. And yes, we already knew Nale was like that... but what's the point of knowing that he's like that if we don't get to see him being like that from time to time?

I know "runtime constraints" are the main cause of cutting things from movies. What I meant was that this was unnecessary and tedious. I was just giving an example. I don't see how it is satirical. Nothing funny or out of the ordinary happened; it was exactly like every villain monologue ever. I think we've seen enough of Nale acting like that. He does it every time we see him. I get it already. This was a bit tiresome, and it certainly wasn't funny that he said it.

[Zeb The Troll]

Q1: Knocking out Elan with one blow? This could, of course, be purely plot-driven.
----
Then he does an average of 42.5 damage. Hmm, that's still not enough to force a Fort save or go unconsious, and it seems like Elan would have more HP than that.
----

Okay, by my math, Thog can do between 37 and 48 points of damage in one hit with a full Power Attack (and I think your 42.5 average matches this, so we're using the same underlying numbers).

Elan's hit points...

I think it's safe to say that Elan doesn't have a terribly exceptional constitution. That's puts him averaging 42 hit points plus whatever his Con bonus would give him, if anything, assuming 12th level. This means that any of the following would contribute to Thog getting what he needs to knock out Elan in one hit...

1.) A decent damage roll from Thog (7 or better)
2.) Below average hit points, even slightly
3.) 11 or lower Constitution
4.) Any single item or combination of items that increases Thog's strength (gauntlets of ogre power/belt of giant's strength/bull's strength spell)

In fact, with gauntlets and a Bull's Strength cast by Nale right before the encounter, the average/max goes up to 46/52, allowing for Thog to only need a 2 on that d12 to still hit the average 42 points. A 10 would cause a Fort save and a maxed out 52 would almost hit the average 54 points Elan would have with up to a 13 con. All without having to roll a critical hit or raging.

Zeb

[Querzis]

Okay, by my math, Thog can do between 37 and 48 points of damage in one hit with a full Power Attack (and I think your 42.5 average matches this, so we're using the same underlying numbers).

Elan's hit points...

I think it's safe to say that Elan doesn't have a terribly exceptional constitution. That's puts him averaging 42 hit points plus whatever his Con bonus would give him, if anything, assuming 12th level. This means that any of the following would contribute to Thog getting what he needs to knock out Elan in one hit...

1.) A decent damage roll from Thog (7 or better)
2.) Below average hit points, even slightly
3.) 11 or lower Constitution
4.) Any single item or combination of items that increases Thog's strength (gauntlets of ogre power/belt of giant's strength/bull's strength spell)

In fact, with gauntlets and a Bull's Strength cast by Nale right before the encounter, the average/max goes up to 46/52, allowing for Thog to only need a 2 on that d12 to still hit the average 42 points. A 10 would cause a Fort save and a maxed out 52 would almost hit the average 54 points Elan would have with up to a 13 con. All without having to roll a critical hit or raging.

Zeb

In Rich comic when some rule are not logical then he dont care about it. Even if you are a level 20 fighter, if you get hit by an arrow in the heart you should die, no matter how much hit point you got. And even if you are a 12th level bard, if you get hit on the back of the head by a barbarian half-orc you should be unconscious for a while, it could even kill you.

[Blaznak]

Wow, what a fun story! This is actually becoming a very nifty run. And (dah dah DAHHHHH) its in a city! Whoot!

I enjoyed the snapshots of what everyone else is up to, by the way...

OH OH! And where is our wild card, Julia, in all this? Hmmm Hmmm???????

[Aliquid]

You didn't realize that everything was going according to Nale's plan before? That all the pieces were in place? It wasn't screamingly obvious due to the fact that every single character was tied up? The pieces already were in place, this comic was just a page telling us that they were.Nothing personal, but that is a very egocentric and arrogant point of view.

Just because it was obvious to you, dosen't mean that it was obvious to everyone else. Sure, everyone was tied up, but there was no reason to assume that it was according to Nale's plan. It could have been coincidence, bad luck.

And then there are all the casual readers out there. Those who don't go to the message boards, those who don't spend their spare time thinking and dreaming about OOTS. Those who don't sit down after every epidode and wonder what's going to happen next. They might have seen what you see as "obvious" if they took the time to think about it, but they had better things to do with their time.

[MacDude]

I'm going to guess that Haley is saying "Here, Kitty, kitty, kitty."

Yes, it's a bird, but "birdy" doesn't work.


"Polly" fits

[AyuVince]

As far as I know, both Gauntlets of Ogre Strength and the spell "Bull's Strength" give the recipient an enhancement bonus, and those don't stack. So the Bull's Strength, which gives you +4, overlaps with the Gauntlets.
Regardless, Thog should be easily able to knock out Elan whether you apply rules lawyer logic or plain common sense.

[The_Kobold_Hero]

Go Yokyok! Go!

[theKOT]

Nothing personal, but that is a very egocentric and arrogant point of view.

Just because it was obvious to you, dosen't mean that it was obvious to everyone else. Sure, everyone was tied up, but there was no reason to assume that it was according to Nale's plan. It could have been coincidence, bad luck.

And then there are all the casual readers out there. Those who don't go to the message boards, those who don't spend their spare time thinking and dreaming about OOTS. Those who don't sit down after every epidode and wonder what's going to happen next. They might have seen what you see as "obvious" if they took the time to think about it, but they had better things to do with their time.

Actually, It would be egocentric if I assumed everyone except me hadn't seen it and that I was brilliant for knowing that.. As it was, I assumed everyone else could see it because I thought it was glaringly obvious. I never said "You are stupid if you can't see this!" So I really don't know why you are so agressive in your post. Unless you didn't see it and felt personally attacked by what I said. Even though I never said a bad word about those who didn't guess at it.

A coincidence? Really? So Nale just happened to say, in comic 341 that "all the pawns are in place", but the OOTS was tied up just due to an extremely improbably set of coincidences? Right.

I don't think someone would have needed to look at the message boards or taken much time to think about it in order to pick up on the fact that this was all part of Nale's scheme.

I simply have a hard time understanding how someone could have missed that. If someone only quickly glances over the comics and then doesn't think of how they fit in to the overall storyline I suppose they could have missed it. Still, those sort of people would need everything spelled out for them in every comic, something that isn't really done in this webcomic.

Really, the way you wrote this post is, "Nothing personal, but you're a jerk." You basically insult me throughout the entire post. Please, I don't want to get into a fight over this. Let's keep it civil, shall we?

[theswarm]

3 cheers for Yokyok!!!

[RiderofStorms]

Awesome Comic ^^ Poor Elan, hope he gets out okay ;)

[Aliquid]

Actually, It would be egocentric if I assumed everyone except me hadn't seen it and that I was brilliant for knowing that.. As it was, I assumed everyone else could see it because I thought it was glaringly obvious.What I saw as egocentric was the fact that you assumed everyone else should see it as glaringly obvious because you see it that way.

To put a bit more context to my comment…
At an old job, I had a manger that had a memory (for details) like a steel trap. I also had a co-worker who would forget details quite easily if he didn’t write them down. Anyway, the manager would often have the attitude of “It was incredibly easy for me to remember all those details, I can’t understand how someone would have a problem with this”. And he would make such comments in a very condescending tone. The manager honestly though that remembering things should be as easy for everyone else as it was for him, and the only reason for forgetting was being lazy. Then I would have to come in and do damage control, so my co-worker’s self esteem didn’t get totally trashed.

The ironic thing was that my co-worker was a human calculator, and the manager wasn’t too good with math. But when I pointed out that the co-worker could easily say “that calculation was easy, I can’t comprehend why you can’t do it in your head”… the manager responded “That’s different” and then made some half ass excuse for the difference.

Anyway, if you haven’t gotten bored from reading this yet… the point is, when I read your “It wasn't screamingly obvious…” comment, I heard my old managers condescending tone of voice.

Assuming that you didn’t have a condescending frame of mind when you typed that… it appears that I might have thrown a bit of misdirected hostility towards you



Let's keep it civil, shall we?Fair enough

[theKOT]

Actually, I really didn't. I was a bit surprised that someone had missed it plus....

Sometimes I go a little overboard with my posts because I'm trying to encourage further debate. Yeah. I enjoy debating, and ever since the Miko plotline ended, the best thing to debate upon is the goodness or badness of a strip.

Oh, and sometimes I AM a little bit that way. But I didn't mean to insult the intelligence of anyone who couldn't get that right away, I was just surprised that anyone could have missed it.

[KeiranHalcyon]

I think we've seen enough of Nale acting like that. He does it every time we see him. I get it already. This was a bit tiresome, and it certainly wasn't funny that he said it.
Well, I still find it entertaining, as do many of the other readers, even if it's gotten stale for you. (But then, I freely admit to being easily entertained.)

[theKOT]

Well, I still find it entertaining, as do many of the other readers, even if it's gotten stale for you. (But then, I freely admit to being easily entertained.)
Yup. This comic could be enjoyable I suppose, it just wasn't to me. I am not very easily entertained(curse you youtube!) and sometimes it is fun to play the role of critic.

[Nashua]

I just realized Nale said "Wererat's ass." This ho-hum episode just got funnier!

[TinSoldier]

I don't mind being critical at all. I'm glad that theKOT expressed his opinion of the strip even if I didn't agree.

And I'm glad that no one jumped all over him for having that opinion as has happened here before.

Can't wait for the next one, though!

[Shakalooloo_Doom]

If this strip had been skipped, more people would be complaining at its loss than are complaining about its inclusion.

[Fillbert]

Why does Nale say "Bring him, and the Knapsack", when he is holding the knapsack???

[taraxia]

BONK!! made me laugh really, really loud and I'm not too sure why. :P

But...did Thog just sneak-attack? I guess he's got a +plot axe.

edit: the third page belongs to me. I'M SO RAD.

You don't have to be able to do Sneak Attack damage to be able to act in the surprise round, and even a not-very-sneaky Barbarian like Thog can pull that off against a distracted character, especially one with Elan's abysmally low Wisdom score.

Nor do you have to be able to do Sneak Attack damage to do a lot of nonlethal damage by Power Attacking for full with a two-handed weapon. Even adding together Power Attack and the -4 penalty for doing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon, you still have a great chance to hit if you roll high against a lightly-armored character who's been caught flat-footed (and depending on his Dex bonus to AC), especially since that greataxe has at least a +3 enhancement bonus. And if your BAB is as high as Thog's is (remember he's at least level 13 or 14 with a full BAB progression) you'll do an *enormous* amount of damage if you succeed on a Power Attack for full.

He'd still have to roll high on damage to knock Elan out in one blow, but since Elan has a d6 hit die, it's still eminently possible.

...And wow, I feel like I just gained a level in Boring Geek for this post alone.

[taraxia]

Actually, I consider the fact that Nale's grand plan seems to be working to be a wild stroke of luck, as it all depended on Roy's glaring tactical error of splitting up the party. Unless I missed something that gave him a good reason to split up the party.

Anyone else notice that the background of frame one (V getting wumphed by the trees) is identical to the background of frame one in #348?


I think he anticipated that Roy has a somewhat old-fashioned sense of honor (i.e. a somewhat second-edition-ish understanding of the Lawful Good alignment, probably inspired by his famous ancestor) and is therefore likely to answer a personal challenge such as Nale's by going in alone with sword in hand. Especially since their last interaction probably left Roy feeling somewhat overconfident about the Linear Guild.

Maybe it's an unrealistic assessment to make, but hey, it turned out he was right. Give Nale points for an amazingly unrealistically clever ability to manipulate and anticipate people, a la Iago in Othello.

[theKOT]

If this strip had been skipped, more people would be complaining at its loss than are complaining about its inclusion.
Maybe. But I wouldn't. And in my opinion, nothing was gained by it. meh.


I think he anticipated that Roy has a somewhat old-fashioned sense of honor (i.e. a somewhat second-edition-ish understanding of the Lawful Good alignment, probably inspired by his famous ancestor) and is therefore likely to answer a personal challenge such as Nale's by going in alone with sword in hand. Especially since their last interaction probably left Roy feeling somewhat overconfident about the Linear Guild.

Maybe it's an unrealistic assessment to make, but hey, it turned out he was right. Give Nale points for an amazingly unrealistically clever ability to manipulate and anticipate people, a la Iago in Othello.
I think it was force of plot more than anything. A story that was completely realistic and based on logic would be pretty boring.

[KeiranHalcyon]

To all those arguing over whether Thog could realistically knock out Elan in one blow... really, it's too bad they didn't include the sap maneuver (from AD&D Player's Option: Combat & Tactics) in 3.x. In exchange for a -4 to hit, it's a 5% chance of KO per point of damage, maximum of 40%, but doubled if the target is unaware (as Elan is). With the amount of damage Thog can reliably do in one hit (even if he were a 2nd ed. build), it's an 80% chance of a KO, which will succeed due to the laws of plot probability (which obey similar physical laws as the speed of plot).

[battleburn]

I didn't see it in the rest of the thread, but...
Where is Durkon in the mean time.
We saw him running away, but how far and what is he doing now.
Every turn he is allowed a roll to get back in control.
So considering the amount of strips we had, I think it's safe to assume he is in control of himself again.
He hasn't gone to help Roy, cause that would have been seen by Pompey.
What I think is the following:


A few possible things really.
1. Durkon ran into the cops and is now interrogated. This is not according to Nales plan and Durkon therefore saves the day.
2. Durkon ran away in a random direction. The chances of running into the escaping Thog, Nale en Elan is one in a milion. Therefore it must happen. Durkon beats the crap out of Thog and Nale makes his escape while leaving Elan behind.
3. Durkon is no help at all. Now that Nale has his captive, the rest of the linear guild runs off. OotS is arrested for the murders.
4. No really that was allready it. It has absolutely no use for you to read on.
5. Hello, there is nothing here, get the point.

[thatwolfguy]

the guy controlling the trees. when did we first see him?

thanks

[Dragon_Rider]

the guy controlling the trees. when did we first see him?

thanks
Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html)

[Haarculaneaum]

Okay okay,
Apart from saying Hi to Fillbert and asking him when he is going to show up for game,

I wanted to say that the Online Comic Strip is an excellent format for diversion, excess, and pointlessness. I love Sluggy Freelance but GOOD GOD sometimes the extras & fillers are just too damn much. Having said that, we should all thank our d20s that Rich flubs the "show don't tell" maxim so very little. Besides, the recap inherent in 351 keeps up the "this is a story board for a t.v. episode" theme quite nicely.

Having said that:


If Nale replaces Elan, what will Sabine do? Elan's charisma is an 18+, is Nale's?

Haar

[TheQuestionable]

Additional over-looked and exaggerated fan-boy praise.

It was good for the purpose of moving the storyline along.

[Azarkon]

I just felt the need to register (finally) in an attempt to defend the comic. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that Nale is actually telling YOU to think about the events that are happening. I've seen DMs do this in the past when their players were missing some pretty obvious plot hints. Judging from several of these posts, some of you are putting two and two together and getting somewhere around a 6-8. I don't have their the future predicted exactly, but I'm waiting to see how close I am with the parts I've been able to work out.

I just wanted to say that I think that #351 (Number changed. Nice correction) has a purpose if you just look hard enough.

[thatwolfguy]

Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html)

so we didn't know that the guy controlling the trees was part of Nale's crew before this eh?

[theKOT]

I just felt the need to register (finally) in an attempt to defend the comic. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that Nale is actually telling YOU to think about the events that are happening. I've seen DMs do this in the past when their players were missing some pretty obvious plot hints. Judging from several of these posts, some of you are putting two and two together and getting somewhere around a 6-8. I don't have their the future predicted exactly, but I'm waiting to see how close I am with the parts I've been able to work out.

I just wanted to say that I think that #351 (Number changed. Nice correction) has a purpose if you just look hard enough.
What do you mean by saying some people are getting 6-8? You need to clarify what you are saying here. Also, did we need an entire strip telling us to really think about what was happening? That seems like a waste to me.

[Daedrous Avari]

Thog is awesome in this one.

[battleburn]

What do you mean by saying some people are getting 6-8? You need to clarify what you are saying here. Also, did we need an entire strip telling us to really think about what was happening? That seems like a waste to me.
He says, 2+2=4, but some people seem to get a number between 6 and 8 instead.
I can't say I agree with what he states, but grumbling about him having to clarify isn't right. It was fairly obvious to me.
So here you see the KOT, not everyone has the same logic. So perhaps it isn't so strange after all that the Giant uses an extra comic to explain these things. Especially when you are reading all these comics at once. Then you don't have time to think about what happens.
For me I thought is was kind of obvious, but I was still a bit in doubt because of all the people on the boards saying they thought Leeky wasn't part of the linear guild.
Having this clarified is something I must thank Rich for. I agree with those that stated before that more people would have complained if this comic hadn't been there. I am one of those people. I wouldn't want to miss the evil monologue by Nale gloating over his cunning.
And of course:

Now that Nale has climbed this high, it will be much more fun when he falls.

[Azarkon]

Thank you battleburn.

I'm glad that the KoT didn't need the extra comic to put together the bigger picture of what's going on. I also didn't need it, but I'm willing to wait a strip or two for anyone that needs it to catch up.

I recall someone in the past week saying something about Nale not counting on the police being here. There were other similar comments that bothered me, but I'm too lazy atm to try to find other examples to support my point: Some people needed this comic.

[theKOT]

He says, 2+2=4, but some people seem to get a number between 6 and 8 instead.
I can't say I agree with what he states, but grumbling about him having to clarify isn't right. It was fairly obvious to me.
So here you see the KOT, not everyone has the same logic. So perhaps it isn't so strange after all that the Giant uses an extra comic to explain these things. Especially when you are reading all these comics at once. Then you don't have time to think about what happens.
For me I thought is was kind of obvious, but I was still a bit in doubt because of all the people on the boards saying they thought Leeky wasn't part of the linear guild.
Having this clarified is something I must thank Rich for. I agree with those that stated before that more people would have complained if this comic hadn't been there. I am one of those people. I wouldn't want to miss the evil monologue by Nale gloating over his cunning.
And of course:

But We still don't know that! Leeky and Yokyok could just as plausably be happy coincidences for Nale as before. Oh, and I got what he meant by the 2+2=6 or 8 thing, I just didn't understand what incorrect solution he was reffering to. What are some people mistaken on? That was what needed clarification.

Besides, I wasn't "grumbling", I was asking for further edification before I made a response. I would appreciate it if you would stop taking such an aggressive tone with me.


I recall someone in the past week saying something about Nale not counting on the police being here. There were other similar comments that bothered me, but I'm too lazy atm to try to find other examples to support my point: Some people needed this comic.
Couldn't they just have been shown that later? What purpose was there to knowing for sure this was Nale's plan?

I guess you could do an nfinite amount of expository comics, and there would always be someone who found it useful. But that doesn't mean you need to do that.







It is fine with me if you liked this comic. I, however, did not and will continue to debate its virtues with my fellow forum-goers.