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Naez
2016-10-30, 03:06 PM
I'm helping a friend of mine throw together a ray focused spellcaster. Spellwarp Sniper, etc. The issue I found was when we were looking for metamagics was where the hell to start since nearly every worthwhile metamagic I could think of has the prereq of "Any other metamagic feat". Anyone have a list of metamagics with no prerequisites to start with?

Vizzerdrix
2016-10-30, 03:12 PM
Heighten and invisable are good starts.

Venger
2016-10-30, 03:54 PM
Heighten and invisable are good starts.

invisible requires 1 other metamagic feat known.

what kinds of things does your friend want to do? there are dozens of metamagics that don't require other metamagic to start, so it might be cumbersome to list them all. you said he was a spellwarp sniper, so I'd recommend ocular spell, since it can turn spells into rays. it requires no other metamagic and is takable very early on.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-10-30, 03:56 PM
Empower (for damaging spells, along with other variable effects, of which there are many) and Extend (for basically anything at all with a duration) are my favorite entry metamagic feats. So useful, the both of them.

Venger
2016-10-30, 04:05 PM
a comprehensive list for ease of reference:
bend spell, black lore of moil, blistering spell, Born of three thunders, city magic, coercive spell, consecrate spell, corrupt spell, deafening spell, deceptive spell, delay spell, disguise spell, disrupting spell, earthbound spell, echoing spell, empower spell, energize spell, energy admixture, energy affinity, enervate spell, enlarge spell, entangling spell, explosive spell, extend spell, fell animate, fell drain, fell energy spell, fell frightened, fell weaken, fiery spell, flash frost spell, fortify spell, ghost touch spell, guided spell, heightened spell, imbued healing, imbued summoning, insidious magic, lingering spell, lord of the uttercold, maximize spell, metanode spell, ocular spell, pernicious magic, persistent spell, piercing cold, purify spell, quicken spell, rapid spell, reach spell, reaping spell, retributive spell, sacred spell, searing spell, silent spell, smiting spell, song of the dead, spell specialization: energy missile, spell specialization: ray, still spell, sudden extend, sudden silent, sudden still, sudden widen, transdimensional spell, umbral spell, violate spell, violate spell-like ability, widen spell

Troacctid
2016-10-30, 04:18 PM
Fell Drain is pretty good. Makes those rays of frost look a lot nastier.

Venger
2016-10-30, 04:38 PM
Fell Drain is pretty good. Makes those rays of frost look a lot nastier.

kelgore's grave mist is where it's at.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-10-30, 04:38 PM
Fell Drain is pretty good. Makes those rays of frost look a lot nastier.My biggest problem with Fell Drain is that, if the negative level kills something, it rises as a wight. At low levels, this is a complete nightmare, as a single wight alone could result in a party wipe. At higher levels, it's still a nightmare, though whether it's complete or not is entirely dependent on how much trouble your group is currently in and whether adding a hostile, level-draining wight will add enough strain to result in a TPK.

Anything that could result in a wightocalypse, shadowpocalypse, or similar is still something I'd rather avoid.

Venger
2016-10-30, 04:43 PM
My biggest problem with Fell Drain is that, if the negative level kills something, it rises as a wight. At low levels, this is a complete nightmare, as a single wight alone could result in a party wipe. At higher levels, it's still a nightmare, though whether it's complete or not is entirely dependent on how much trouble your group is currently in and whether adding a hostile, level-draining wight will add enough strain to result in a TPK.

Anything that could result in a wightocalypse, shadowpocalypse, or similar is still something I'd rather avoid.

by the time you can freely use fell drain, it's more likely to act as a debuff against an enemy rather than kill it outright. even if it does, by that time waiting around a few hours to kill a cr 2 monster is hardly going to tax the party much.

MaxiDuRaritry
2016-10-30, 04:47 PM
by the time you can freely use fell drain, it's more likely to act as a debuff against an enemy rather than kill it outright. even if it does, by that time waiting around a few hours to kill a cr 2 monster is hardly going to tax the party much.I would suggest preparing spells to control undead specifically whenever you have spells with Fell Drain tacked on, then use them as minions. As well as if you have them inflicting negative levels themselves.

Just make sure to have contingencies in place for destroying them instantly if they ever get out from under your control. Repeating spell traps which trigger upon being released come to mind.

Darrin
2016-10-31, 08:22 AM
I usually start with Extend Spell or Sudden Extend (Complete Arcane).

If you're trying to do blasty-stuff, Energy Affinity might be worth a look... it's similar to Energy Substitution, but you can qualify for it without taking any other metamagics. However, you can't get it at first level, as it requires 5 ranks of Knowledge: Arcana.