Good build for about 2000 level 1 characters?

[Lukalaly]

So I took leadership and got a level 11 cohort, who also took leadership and got a level 9 cohort, who took leadership and got a level 7 cohort, who took leadership and got a level 5 cohort, who took fiery soul and got free leadership, who's level 3 cohort did the same. Along with some magic items, a few racial feats and prestige class levels, i have over 2000 level 1 followers. My DM said that I can't get my several hundred thousand gold by having my cohorts killing them and taking their money, so I decided to try to make use of them. Anybody got any ideas for for upwards of 2k characters working together? Money is basically no object to me, as our party of 2 level 13 characters goes up against CR 20+ monsters without breaking a sweat, and our DM gives us the treasure and xp for it as well.

A much more amusing and much, much less complicated idea would be a sort of commoner cannon (that I could hopefully mount onto my mech?), if anyone knows of one. I'd love to ride into battle and just shoot a few hundred people at a hill giant.

[Masema]

Uhh... I would use them to storm the king's castle. Perhaps not for you though.

2000 is quite a few followers.

[Brannmuffyn]

I would suggest simply having all of your 2000 level 1 characters be Level 1 Muckdweller Exoticist ACF fighters. No, really. Have them take Handcrossbow Focus and Two Weapon-Fighting, if you have flaws take Rapid Shot and Point Blank Shot. Have them two weapon fight with handcrossbows. They usually only hit on a 20, but that doesn't matter because there is 2000 of them(which can each make 2 or 3 attacks).

The important part is the cohorts, which should be Dragonfire Inspiration Bards using that instrument who's name I can't remember that increases the effect range to miles.

Simply have your level 1 characters rush in and start firing like mad.

[Lukalaly]

The important part is the cohorts, which should be Dragonfire Inspiration Bards using that instrument who's name I can't remember that increases the effect range to miles.

How much BAB do the Dragonfire Inspiration Bards get? I need them to have at least 5 by (preferably) 6th level, otherwise I can't take the prestige class and my follower count gets cut in about half.

[SangoProduction]

Go Sorcerer. Have them take Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile).

For spells, take Magic Missile, and (half of them) Touch of Enfeeblement and (for the other half) Silent Image.

Obviously, Magic Missile will be your primary spell, since it's a no-save, and no-attack roll spell that does 3d4+3 damage per caster who casts it.

The other spells are just for some backup utility. Not great, but hey, they are level 1 (well, an army of Silent Images...heard of Sun Tsu?).

For cantrips, mix in Acid Splash, Message, and Ray of Frost. Just for those things that aren't targetable by magic missile (like non-creatures), as well as allowing for ease of communication.

[Lukalaly]

Uhh... I would use them to storm the king's castle. Perhaps not for you though.

2000 is quite a few followers.

While that would be quite amusing, and perhaps fitting for my LE character (as it isn't illegal to overthrow a king where I am, just very stupid), I just don't really want to. After I complete the quest given to me by the king himself, I may turn traitor and take over the kingdom for myself start a revolution with the reward I receive. Heck, I may even put my (followers') title of warlord to use. (Although the reward was boring and probably useless enough to where I can't even remember what it was, so it might not be very helpful, I don't know)

[Lukalaly]

Go Sorcerer. Have them take Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile).

For spells, take Magic Missile, and (half of them) Touch of Enfeeblement and (for the other half) Silent Image.

Obviously, Magic Missile will be your primary spell, since it's a no-save, and no-attack roll spell that does 3d4+3 damage per caster who casts it.

The other spells are just for some backup utility. Not great, but hey, they are level 1 (well, an army of Silent Images...heard of Sun Tsu?).

For cantrips, mix in Acid Splash, Message, and Ray of Frost. Just for those things that aren't targetable by magic missile (like non-creatures), as well as allowing for ease of communication.

That would be an amazing idea if most of the monsters I fight have DR high enough to where I'd need a fairly high roll to even scratch them with magic missile, and even then their regen would likely recover it the same round. Although, 2000 potential high rolls could kill a dragon if they had a surprise round.

[daremetoidareyo]

400 five person teams?

[SangoProduction]

That would be an amazing idea if most of the monsters I fight have DR high enough to where I'd need a fairly high roll to even scratch them with magic missile, and even then their regen would likely recover it the same round. Although, 2000 potential high rolls could kill a dragon if they had a surprise round.

Magic doesn't care about DR, unless it deals Bludgeoning, piercing, or Slashing damage.

I can't imagine a single creature that can survive 6000d4+6000 damage (not even in epic) unless they are straight up immune to damage, in which case, level 1 characters are pointless against them.

[Draconium]

Magic doesn't care about DR, unless it deals Bludgeoning, piercing, or Slashing damage.

I can't imagine a single creature that can survive 6000d4+6000 damage (not even in epic) unless they are straight up immune to damage, in which case, level 1 characters are pointless against them.

Well, tis might be a good idea, but it goes to hell the second you fight something with Spell Resistance at a decent level. Then your Magic Missiles can't really do much - or, in fact, anything.

[eggynack]

Well, tis might be a good idea, but it goes to hell the second you fight something with Spell Resistance at a decent level. Then your Magic Missiles can't really do much - or, in fact, anything.
Part of why I like wizards more for this. You can have some of them prepare lesser orb of X, or just split them into, say, sixths, and have each group prepare a different element or a magic missile, or you can have them all swap over to one spell when needed. Moreover, all of the wizards have fancy utility and such, because there're a lot of solid first level spells, and you get all of them. Possibly the best reason for wizards, though, is that you can have most of them take abrupt jaunt, giving them some real resilience and mobility. Wizards just seem better, given that you're not hurting for slots, and the additional versatility can be put to good use. Oh, also, a large number of them, maybe all of them, can take precocious apprentice, which really expands the possibilities available.

[Lukalaly]

Magic doesn't care about DR, unless it deals Bludgeoning, piercing, or Slashing damage.
Most monster DR is converted to /- for our purposes, so unless I don't know how the rules work (which is pretty likely), then magic is still effected


I can't imagine a single creature that can survive 6000d4+6000 damage (not even in epic) unless they are straight up immune to damage, in which case, level 1 characters are pointless against them.

We are actually fighting epic monsters, my friend showed our DM the epic-level handbook at our last meeting and he said that he'd definitely be using them in our next meeting. I mean, I did pretty much 2 shot a mindflayer that had turned into a demigod (and my DM said it was only a CR 11 encounter cuz it took 3 character levels, thus increasing the normal mindflayer CR by 3, which is total BS), and the only reason I didn't say kill is because he's immortal, can plane shift at will as a free action, has lifesteal and is always in close proximity to several golems, so I'd either have to dimensional anchor and metamagic a disintegrate spell up to level 9, since oh-by-the-way he's immune to all spells that aren't 9th level, or wish him away in order to actually kill him.

(I'm pretty salty about only getting xp for a CR 11 monster from that, in case you didn't notice)

[SangoProduction]

Part of why I like wizards more for this. You can have some of them prepare lesser orb of X, or just split them into, say, sixths, and have each group prepare a different element or a magic missile, or you can have them all swap over to one spell when needed. Moreover, all of the wizards have fancy utility and such, because there're a lot of solid first level spells, and you get all of them. Possibly the best reason for wizards, though, is that you can have most of them take abrupt jaunt, giving them some real resilience and mobility. Wizards just seem better, given that you're not hurting for slots, and the additional versatility can be put to good use. Oh, also, a large number of them, maybe all of them, can take precocious apprentice, which really expands the possibilities available.
Eh, you can have Sorcerer learn that too. I was simply only working with the core spell list. Functionally, you can know all level 1 spells with your army of sorcerers, if you really wanted to, and you'd get more uses per day. Sure, those uses are less flexibly slotted, but at 2000 who cares - you've got more than enough. A sorcerer sucks long-term compared to a wizard, because they constantly lag behind with spell levels, but level 1...


Most monster DR is converted to /- for our purposes, so unless I don't know how the rules work (which is pretty likely), then magic is still effected

Yeah. Doesn't matter. DR still doesn't affect anything that aren't those 3 types of damage, unless it's a homebrew rule that DR = universal energy resistance (which is fair enough, and a few on this board do that).



We are actually fighting epic monsters, my friend showed our DM the epic-level handbook at our last meeting and he said that he'd definitely be using them in our next meeting. I mean, I did pretty much 2 shot a mindflayer that had turned into a demigod (and my DM said it was only a CR 11 encounter cuz it took 3 character levels, thus increasing the normal mindflayer CR by 3, which is total BS), and the only reason I didn't say kill is because he's immortal, can plane shift at will as a free action, has lifesteal and is always in close proximity to several golems, so I'd either have to dimensional anchor and metamagic a disintegrate spell up to level 9, since oh-by-the-way he's immune to all spells that aren't 9th level, or wish him away in order to actually kill him.

(I'm pretty salty about only getting xp for a CR 11 monster from that, in case you didn't notice)

Well, free actions still require it being his turn. lol. Level 1s aren't going to help you, if it's a high-op epic creature.

[Draconium]

Honestly, with all those followers, you know what I would do? Have them spread out among the various cities and countries in your world. Use them to keep tabs on what's going on in the various kingdoms, and make sure you always have at least one contact in any major city you visit. You know, be that guy that seems to have friends in both high and low places, no matter where he goes.

[Brannmuffyn]

Go Sorcerer. Have them take Arcane Thesis (Magic Missile).

They are level 1, Arcane Thesis requires 9 ranks in Knowledge(arcana). Your idea doesn't work

[Exocist]

They are level 1, Arcane Thesis requires 9 ranks in Knowledge(arcana). Your idea doesn't work

Have them all make Faustian pacts? :P

Co-Operative Spell could work instead, maybe?

Otherwise, Versatile Spellcaster (Or Metamagic School Focus Wizard) + Forceful Spell (Dragon 358) should do the trick.

You might also be able to get away with an Ancestral Relic, though I'm not sure what for.

[Endarire]

+1 to a swarm of magic missiles. There are plenty of counters (shield, minor globe of invulnerability, high enough spell/power resistance), but who plans for two thousand magic missiles per round?!

[Exocist]

+1 to a swarm of magic missiles. There are plenty of counters (shield, minor globe of invulnerability, high enough spell/power resistance), but who plans for two thousand magic missiles per round?!

Minor Globe/Normal Globe is sometimes considered standard for reasons including the above as well as Sanctum (Greater) Arcane Fusion.

SR is stock standard on pretty much any outsider/construct.

[CharonsHelper]

Level 1 fighters with composite longbows.

Feats: Point-Blank Shot & Rapid Shot (& Precise Shot if human)


Use them to guard your stronghold behind parapets & arrow slits to jack up their AC/Reflex saves.

Anything without DR will die horribly to them, as even just hitting on 20's and with +1 STR damage they would average 577.5 damage per turn. Give them silver, cold iron, & blunt arrows to deal with many of the most common DRs.


Maybe have a few hundred be sorcerers with lesser orb spells. That way they can deal with anything big (dragons etc.) which have horrible touch ACs.

[eggynack]

Eh, you can have Sorcerer learn that too. I was simply only working with the core spell list. Functionally, you can know all level 1 spells with your army of sorcerers, if you really wanted to, and you'd get more uses per day. Sure, those uses are less flexibly slotted, but at 2000 who cares - you've got more than enough. A sorcerer sucks long-term compared to a wizard, because they constantly lag behind with spell levels, but level 1...
I mostly just meant that you can seriously vary things on a wizard army, and that abrupt jaunt is nice.

[SethoMarkus]

Have each of them take Chicken Infested; drown the world in chickens.

[SangoProduction]

Have each of them take Chicken Infested; drown the world in chickens.

Then have them kill their chickens for xp (and food. It's a pain to feed so many otherwise). Now you've got a bunch of slightly higher level characters who can spam out even more magic missiles!

Or, invest all 2000 of those characters in to Wilders, and have them know Control Light! Why? Well, clearly it's for the Death Note. OK, no, not really. But, each one of them can improve the brightness of a light by 100%. Even assuming additive rather than multiplicative stacking, that's 4,000 times the normal brightness of the light source. IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES!

Or have them take Matter Agitation and usher in the Wilder Industrial Revolution.

[Vizzerdrix]

Do they get flaws? If so then a 1st level human fighter can get DR5/byeshk and troll blooded. You could take 1st level warlocks with mortal bane for some decent ranged support. Dragonfire adepts can get entangling breath. Druid 1 with wild cohort and soulspark familiar gets you 4 for 1 and decent damage if you toss in a handfull or DFI bards.

Look up the commoner handbook for more ideas.

[Coidzor]

2000 Warlocks is quite a bit of Eldritch Blasting.


How much BAB do the Dragonfire Inspiration Bards get? I need them to have at least 5 by (preferably) 6th level, otherwise I can't take the prestige class and my follower count gets cut in about half.

Bards have 3/4 BAB. Therefore, at 4th and 5th level, they have +3 BAB, while at 6th level they go up to +4 BAB. You would have to multiclass them for two levels in a full-BAB class to get +5 BAB by 6th level.

Alternatively, if the Heartfire Fanner PrC(Dragon Magazine 314) is on the table, you could make non-Bard full-BAB types become Bards. A Ranger or Paladin would qualify as long as they were able to invest in Diplomacy and Perform, or any multiclass build that dips into a class that gives 1st level spells. The PrC gives non-Bards the Bardic Music abilities of a 5th level Bard, so 3 levels lower than the earliest entry into the PrC normally.

Dragonfire Inspiration is a feat from Dragon Magic.

Warchanter is another PrC of interest, this time from Complete Warrior, its 10th level ability, Inspire Legion, gives even low HD creatures the BAB of the highest BAB ally they have or BAB = the Warchanter's character level, significantly buffing Level 1 followers' to-hit.

[D&DPrinceTandem]

2000 lvl ones!!!
1000 lvl1 clerics (evil so you can get rebuke undead)(all have mad faith servere)(planning/death domain)(dmm persist cheeses)
1000 lvl1 Barbarians (frenzy instead of rage)
all you lvl 2 dread necromancers (necropolitans, all your undead that are under the clerics control are inta healed)
use your barbs for killing and your cleric for animating and your dreads for healing your undead preaty soon you won't need barbs, you can replace them with bards with dfi's. use any corpes on your team to raise as well
...
Profit!
Ps. probably wanna be evilzzz

[Lukalaly]

2000 lvl ones!!!
1000 lvl1 clerics (evil so you can get rebuke undead)(all have mad faith servere)(planning/death domain)(dmm persist cheeses)
1000 lvl1 Barbarians (frenzy instead of rage)
all you lvl 2 dread necromancers (necropolitans, all your undead that are under the clerics control are inta healed)
use your barbs for killing and your cleric for animating and your dreads for healing your undead preaty soon you won't need barbs, you can replace them with bards with dfi's. use any corpes on your team to raise as well
...
Profit!
Ps. probably wanna be evilzzz

I have the evil part on lockdown, the followers that I get from leadership all end up killing each other because the pain feels so good. Spellclock with distilled joy ends up giving me infinite crafting experience.
In case you were wondering, I got that idea from this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1000.msg6465#msg6465). My DM said that he didn't feel like doing math, so I just don't have to pay crafting xp at all, ever for this character. He is, of course, an artificer, so now one of the bigger drawbacks of crafting is 100% gone! Yay!

[Jowgen]

I made a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499714-Arch-Lantern-Corps-a-silly-Create-Lantern-Archon-optimization-exercise-of-mine) a while back that dealt with something somewhat similar. Perhaps you will find it of use?

[Martimus Prime]

I do like the idea of making them all sorcerors, wizards, or other arcane spellcasters that can get Obtain Familiar. Then, you take their familiars and turn them into swarms of the appropriate type - if they're small enough, they'd even be immune to physical damage - and use them to besiege smaller settlements that don't have the luxury of AoE casters on their own side. Druids could also be good (animal companions/healing/area control spells).

[Vizzerdrix]

One commoner 1 with the weresheep flaw so you can infect the rest with free lycanthropy.

[SangoProduction]

OK. Know what? This is all a little pointless. Let's end it now. Set a wight on them. Then send your army of 2000 wights on the rest of the world.

[flamewolf393]

+1 to a swarm of magic missiles. There are plenty of counters (shield, minor globe of invulnerability, high enough spell/power resistance), but who plans for two thousand magic missiles per round?!

One of my old dm's would now. I played a character that fired off something like 330 magic missiles per turn at 14 damage each, that bypass the shield spell. :P