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View Full Version : Recommendations for an "elementalist" sorcerer



Shisumo
2007-07-12, 11:38 AM
Though I have a lot of D&D books, there are some large holes in my collection (the Heroes books, the races books, the Compendia), and my knowledge even of what I do have is not exactly encyclopedic. I'm trying to sketch out a character development plan for an elementally-themed sorcerer, and I'd like some help from the experts.

What I'm looking for:
* Suggestions for spells known - ideally, this would include spells at as many levels as possible of all four elements; also, I'm looking for maximum flexibility and utility to a party, secondary to the theme - I realize I'm likely to wind up as a blaster in most respects, and I'm okay with that, but ideas for elemental effects that help the group out in other ways would be appreciated
* Feat ideas - I'm looking closely at reserve feats, since some of the effects dovetail nicely with the concept of a spellcaster who instinctively channels the power of the elements, but there might be other things I could better spend feat slots on
* Recommendations for PrCs - I know there's an "elementalist" class in CompArcane - the elemental savant - but it's focused on a specific element, and it's exactly the wrong thing for my purposes; other than generic ideas like the archmage (which I doubt would be a good fit anyway), I'd like to fid something that complemented the idea

For the record, I'm using 32 point-buy and the Metamagic Specialist alternative class feature from the PHBII (which I may not use, but is likely to be more help than a familiar would be...).

Starsinger
2007-07-12, 11:45 AM
You may want to ask your DM if you could use the WuJen spell list instead of the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list.

Person_Man
2007-07-12, 11:50 AM
A classic elemental Sorcerer build uses Stormcaster (Stormwrack PrC) with Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness). By ECL 9ish, whenever you cast any energy spell, it:

Is 50% Electricity and 50% Sonic
Anyone who is damaged by the spell must Save or be Stunned for one round. They must do this TWICE (once from the Stormcaster ability, once form Born of Three Thunders).
Anyone Stunned by the spell must Save or be knocked Prone (Born of Three Thunders).
And it does all this WITHOUT any level adjustment, which means that even your 0th level spells can have a very powerful effect.

The side effect from Born of Three Thunders is that you are then Dazed for one round with no Save. But Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action at the start of your next turn to Save and recover vs. any Daze or Stun effect (even if it doesn't normally allow a Saving Throw).

Shazam. You are now an insanely potent blaster caster with excellent battlefield control. Be sure to pick up a Force spell for back-up against Energy Immune enemies, plus Greater Invisibility, Fly, and Energy Immunity (Spell from the Draconomicon. Use it on your friends, so you can dump area of effect spells into the middle of the battlefield) and you'll be set.

Shisumo
2007-07-12, 11:59 AM
You may want to ask your DM if you could use the WuJen spell list instead of the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list.

Wu Jen use the 5 Chinese elements instead of the four Classical/Greek elements; otherwise that's decent suggestion.


A classic elemental Sorcerer build uses Stormcaster (Stormwrack PrC) with Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness). By ECL 9ish, whenever you cast any energy spell, it:

Is 50% Electricity and 50% Sonic
Anyone who is damaged by the spell must Save or be Stunned for one round. They must do this TWICE (once from the Stormcaster ability, once form Born of Three Thunders).
Anyone Stunned by the spell must Save or be knocked Prone (Born of Three Thunders).
And it does all this WITHOUT any level adjustment, which means that even your 0th level spells can have a very powerful effect.

The side effect from Born of Three Thunders is that you are then Dazed for one round with no Save. But Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action at the start of your next turn to Save and recover vs. any Daze or Stun effect (even if it doesn't normally allow a Saving Throw).

Shazam. You are now an insanely potent blaster caster with excellent battlefield control. Be sure to pick up a Force spell for back-up against Energy Immune enemies, plus Greater Invisibility, Fly, and Energy Immunity (Spell from the Draconomicon. Use it on your friends, so you can dump area of effect spells into the middle of the battlefield) and you'll be set.

That's an excellent build, but it's going in the wrong direction for what I want. I'm interested in spells that work with fire, water, earth, and air, and as many as possible of them as I can manage. So specializing like that, and going for sonic/electricity over fire/cold, are both just about opposite from what I'm aiming toward.

Lapak
2007-07-12, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't be afraid to grab spells that lack a descriptor, and fluff out the elemental aspects. For battlefield control and party assistance, the various fog-style spells are pretty on-theme. Combining Air and Water gives you a Fog Cloud; throw in some fire/earth for sulfurous fumes and you get a Stinking Cloud; throw in a LOT of fire and you get an Incendiary Cloud, etc.

The spells that transmute one element to another or transform anything into a pure element are in-theme and can be good for a degree of battlefield control/non blaster save-or-dies, too. Rock to Mud, Flesh to Stone, that kind of thing.

Wind Wall and Wall of Fire are good in-theme buffs/controls. Oh! And any summons you can pick up that bring out elemental creatures fit the theme as well.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-07-12, 12:22 PM
At very late levels, the Archmage PrC lets you get Mastery of Elements which basically lets you sub out any elemental flavor you want at no additional cost.

Reserve feats suck. They let you blow spells to do crappy things. Go Metamagic instead.

Sorcerer5/MotAO4/Incantatrix10/AM1 is the build I suggest.

Incantatrix is metamagic GOLD. Reduction on additional cost for all metamagic feats. Grab Archmage once you qualify for Mastery of Elements. Then just pick the right spell list.

0th level: Acid Splash. No SR, and acid damage.
1st level: Various Lesser Orb of Element. Again, no SR, pick a flavor.
2nd level: Scorching Ray and Melf's Acid Arrow
3rd: Fireball and Lightning Bolt
4th: Orbs of Element. Like the lesser, only nastier. Also Fire Shield.
5th Cone of Cold. It's a classic.
6th: Acid Fog, Chain Lightning, and Freezing Sphere
7th: Delayed Blast Fireball
8th: will be metamagic'd stuff from lower levels since your choices suck
9th: You want Time Stop. Again, metamagic'd lower level spells.

There's all your blasting goodness to make all kinds of elemental type stuff go BOOM

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-12, 04:51 PM
Consider basing it on the Wujen class with the Wujen quirks (Taboos) and bennies (Spell Secrets) if not PRCing.

The Mormegil
2007-07-21, 04:57 PM
Dragonskin (Spell Compendium) is utility goodness. And Sorceror cast it at CL +1.
Channeled Pyroburst (PHBII) is nice. I personally like it for the flavour of channeling fire through your body, but I love a rapid blast like it.
Heart of X, from CM, will do.
I'd take only one blast per level anyway. More are redundant. Choose the best of them and be sure to have all four energy types: Energy Immunity is killing you, if not.

I think taking a LOT of Knowledge ranks is a must, plus add Collector of Stories Skill Trick. It's good to know that is a thoqqua and therefore immune to fire, right?

Archmage 1 is good. PHBII variant is good. Incantatrix 10 is BROKEN.
Take also (ALSO) Rapid Metamagic (CM). It's not the same that your class feature is: it is unlimited, but won't work with Quicken Spell. Grab it anyway: you can use it 3+Int times a day.

I'd take Metamagic School Focus (evocation) and Persistent Spell. The second is particulary good 'cause you are a sorceror. That means you fire up all your persistent buffs before going to sleep, then recover them all.

Who
2007-07-22, 06:12 AM
At very late levels, the Archmage PrC lets you get Mastery of Elements which basically lets you sub out any elemental flavor you want at no additional cost.

Reserve feats suck. They let you blow spells to do crappy things. Go Metamagic instead.

Sorcerer5/MotAO4/Incantatrix10/AM1 is the build I suggest.

Incantatrix is metamagic GOLD. Reduction on additional cost for all metamagic feats. Grab Archmage once you qualify for Mastery of Elements. Then just pick the right spell list.

0th level: Acid Splash. No SR, and acid damage.
1st level: Various Lesser Orb of Element. Again, no SR, pick a flavor.
2nd level: Scorching Ray and Melf's Acid Arrow
3rd: Fireball and Lightning Bolt
4th: Orbs of Element. Like the lesser, only nastier. Also Fire Shield.
5th Cone of Cold. It's a classic.
6th: Acid Fog, Chain Lightning, and Freezing Sphere
7th: Delayed Blast Fireball
8th: will be metamagic'd stuff from lower levels since your choices suck
9th: You want Time Stop. Again, metamagic'd lower level spells.

There's all your blasting goodness to make all kinds of elemental type stuff go BOOM

Reserve feats do not suck

TheLogman
2007-07-22, 07:48 AM
Energy Affinity the feat, you have to have 5 ranks in knowledge Arcana, and one spell of each of the energy types (Acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic), but it lets you alter the element of any spell to another that you choose at feat selection, I usually choose Sonic, since very very few things are immune to sonic damage, and a Ball of Sonic, and Cone of Sonic, and even Sonic Fog are cool.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-07-22, 11:29 AM
Reserve feats do not suck

Can you perhaps tell us why you think that? I really don't see how they don't completely suck. They do minor damage or effects. Come on, blow a 9th level spell to do 9d6 damage? I can chunk a fireball or lightning bolt to do more than that by the time I'm 9th level, and that's only a 3rd level spell. Heck, even Scorching Ray does more damage than that if all three rays hit, and it's only a 2nd level spell.


Energy Affinity the feat, you have to have 5 ranks in knowledge Arcana, and one spell of each of the energy types (Acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic), but it lets you alter the element of any spell to another that you choose at feat selection, I usually choose Sonic, since very very few things are immune to sonic damage, and a Ball of Sonic, and Cone of Sonic, and even Sonic Fog are cool.

It's a trap, trust me. You blow feats to do this, wheras it can be a class feature later on. Also, you can just pick up a Sonic Orb as a regular spell, and you're done. I'd rather get Still or Silent spell.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-22, 12:57 PM
Let your sorcerers take a UA/D20 SRD Variant Mage Domain like the Fire Domain as a freebie bonus domain to spellcasting and known spells and give them an Elemental Reserve Feat instead of a familiar or take an Elemental Familiar or Summon Elemental options from Complete Mage.

Consider letting them take a sorcererous variant of the Master Specialist PRC based on their element which you tweak mechanically.

Merlin the Tuna
2007-07-22, 01:09 PM
Wu Jen use the 5 Chinese elements instead of the four Classical/Greek elements; otherwise that's decent suggestion.A lot of Metal could be described as Wind, and you'd be pretty much set.

Aside from that, the Warmage actually might fit you pretty well. Obviously it's mostly a blaster (as you basically intend to be anyway), but it does have a bit of elemental control to it (Wall of Fire, Ice Storm, Sleet Storm, etc.).

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-07-22, 01:15 PM
A classic elemental Sorcerer build uses Stormcaster (Stormwrack PrC) with Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness). By ECL 9ish, whenever you cast any energy spell, it:

Is 50% Electricity and 50% Sonic
Anyone who is damaged by the spell must Save or be Stunned for one round. They must do this TWICE (once from the Stormcaster ability, once form Born of Three Thunders).
Anyone Stunned by the spell must Save or be knocked Prone (Born of Three Thunders).
And it does all this WITHOUT any level adjustment, which means that even your 0th level spells can have a very powerful effect.

The side effect from Born of Three Thunders is that you are then Dazed for one round with no Save. But Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action at the start of your next turn to Save and recover vs. any Daze or Stun effect (even if it doesn't normally allow a Saving Throw).

Shazam. You are now an insanely potent blaster caster with excellent battlefield control. Be sure to pick up a Force spell for back-up against Energy Immune enemies, plus Greater Invisibility, Fly, and Energy Immunity (Spell from the Draconomicon. Use it on your friends, so you can dump area of effect spells into the middle of the battlefield) and you'll be set.

Hook, line, and sinker. Great build.

Quietus
2007-07-22, 01:24 PM
Can you perhaps tell us why you think that? I really don't see how they don't completely suck. They do minor damage or effects. Come on, blow a 9th level spell to do 9d6 damage? I can chunk a fireball or lightning bolt to do more than that by the time I'm 9th level, and that's only a 3rd level spell. Heck, even Scorching Ray does more damage than that if all three rays hit, and it's only a 2nd level spell.

You seem to be slightly off on this. You don't have to blow a spell to do it - you just have to not cast it. If you can cast only one ninth level spell per day (hypothetically), and you know Meteor Swarm and have the fire reserve feat, you can throw 9d6 blasts of fire as much as you want.

The damage reserve feats are generally not all that great. They're nice at low levels, so you can always have something to do in combat, but at higher levels you might as well just cast one of your lower level spells - you shouldn't run out too quickly. Some of them, however, are very nice; if memory serves, some of them let you breathe water, or teleport short distances, and such, WITHOUT CASTING A SPELL. Nice benefits to have.

brian c
2007-07-22, 01:32 PM
You seem to be slightly off on this. You don't have to blow a spell to do it - you just have to not cast it. If you can cast only one ninth level spell per day (hypothetically), and you know Meteor Swarm and have the fire reserve feat, you can throw 9d6 blasts of fire as much as you want.

If you really wanted to do that though, just play a Warlock.

Zherog
2007-07-22, 02:20 PM
Do you have access to Dragon Magazine material? If so, I had an article in Dragon 330 called "Sorcerers are Special...ists, too" that would likely help. Basically, it defines a new mechanic called "spell spheres" which allows sorcerers to specialize. Unlike a wizard - who must choose a school - the sorcerer selects a theme. So, for example, you could opt to go with a "fire" theme, and gain bonuses to any fire related spell. In return, you take a penalty to "cold" related spells.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-24, 01:28 AM
A classic elemental Sorcerer build uses Stormcaster (Stormwrack PrC) with Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness). By ECL 9ish, whenever you cast any energy spell, it:

Is 50% Electricity and 50% Sonic
Anyone who is damaged by the spell must Save or be Stunned for one round. They must do this TWICE (once from the Stormcaster ability, once form Born of Three Thunders).
Anyone Stunned by the spell must Save or be knocked Prone (Born of Three Thunders).
And it does all this WITHOUT any level adjustment, which means that even your 0th level spells can have a very powerful effect.

The side effect from Born of Three Thunders is that you are then Dazed for one round with no Save. But Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action at the start of your next turn to Save and recover vs. any Daze or Stun effect (even if it doesn't normally allow a Saving Throw).

Shazam. You are now an insanely potent blaster caster with excellent battlefield control. Be sure to pick up a Force spell for back-up against Energy Immune enemies, plus Greater Invisibility, Fly, and Energy Immunity (Spell from the Draconomicon. Use it on your friends, so you can dump area of effect spells into the middle of the battlefield) and you'll be set.

I am confused by your ECL 9ish Stormcaster. I do not read it working like you are posting in The Stormcaster PRC. It would Normally require a Sorcerer - 6 (To cast Lightning Bolt possibly with a PRC level or two) and up to 3 levels of Stormcaster losing a casting level during the first PRC level so this ECL 9 PC casts as a Sorcerer - 8.

The supernatural PRC Thunderclap LOSES spells to GENERATE a 30 foot sonic burst dealing 1D4 points of sonic damage per level of the spell to all targets in the area (This would include the adventuring party) and any creature damaged by the effect is stunned for one round if they Fail their Fortitude save. This ability doesn't stack with other spell damage and since it doesn't give a range it appears to be centered on the Stormcaster from the text.

The PC needs to take 5 levels of the PRC to get the Thunderbolt extraordinary ability which only works on lightning based attacks. You would need an ECL 11+ PC which in many games PCs never attain through leveling up. Targets still get Fortitude saves.

It looks like it would be better for a PC to just go and take the feats you suggested and PRC into something else.

Behold_the_Void
2007-07-24, 03:01 AM
Does it have to be an arcane caster? If you wanted to play a Kineticist Psion, for example, you'd be able to channel most of the elements with the various energy powers.

ImperiousLeader
2007-07-24, 06:20 AM
The side effect from Born of Three Thunders is that you are then Dazed for one round with no Save. But Quick Recovery allows you to use a Move action at the start of your next turn to Save and recover vs. any Daze or Stun effect (even if it doesn't normally allow a Saving Throw).

If you play in Eberron, you can do better with a Dragonmark and the feat "Mark of the Dauntless", which makes you immune to dazing and stunning.

Indon
2007-07-24, 08:25 AM
-Pick up multiple Energy Substitution feats (I _think_ this is possible).
-Learn spells of any element; Fireball, Acid Arrow, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, etc.
-Cast those spells as spells of any element you like; Lightningball, Cold Arrow, Fire Bolt, Cone of Acid, etc.

Edit: Oh, my bad. You can't take Energy Substitution: Sonic.

Edit again: I think? It doesn't name Sonic as an example, but Sonic is an energy identifier, and I'm pretty sure you could use Energy Substitution to change a Sonic spell to another element.

That said, Greater Acid-Shout.

Edit yet again: I'm trying to find that one feat or whathaveyou that lets a Sorceror cast Metamagic competently and can not seem to find it...

Person_Man
2007-07-24, 09:22 AM
You could ask your DM for a house rule. Free Energy Substitution of every type, but your caster can only use spells that deal elemental energy. Maybe use the Warmage as the base class. It wouldn't be very powerful, but it might capture what you're looking for.

Indon
2007-07-25, 08:29 AM
Okay, found what I was looking for.

It's a Sorceror variant, the Metamagic Specialist: You give up your Familiar in exchange for being able to cast Metamagic without increasing your spell casting time.

I do believe it's in PHB2.