Test your knowledge! Demolish a character!

[Einselar]

Once upon a time, in a land far far away and right next door, I made a character. This character was called Hell's Fang. Hell's Fang was made because I and a DM were tired of a certain munchkin and decided that the rules were more like the double yellow line in the middle of the road. A mere guideline to follow and not mandatory. And so a monstrosity was created. A year later, and Hell's Fang was retired a good long time ago, but the meme lives on. Many characters have been made based on this broken Mary Sue and all have since been balanced. But that is not why I have invited you all here.

This thread is made for two-fold purposes:
1. I would like to learn more about the game, and the best way to learn is to work with something you are familiar with.
2. I'm sure others would like to learn more about the game or show off.

And so I present you with Hell's Fang's Character sheet. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=162074) I invite you to study it, tear it apart, and if you so choose, put it back together. Bonus points if you can keep her at her written level and keep the same abilities she has now. I will note that she implements a home-brew template (in addition to 2 canon ones) that the DM and I nerfed a bit (heavily) so as to not make the entire party irrelevant. You can find it here. (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Soulmerged_(3.5e_Template))

I wish you all the best of luck. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have if I remember the answers. Enjoy tearing the 10th Lord of Hell apart.

P.S. As HF was played for 2-3 levels before being retired, she bought off some LA. However, it is still incredibly broken. Enjoy!

[Inevitability]

What is the point of this thread exactly? Are we supposed to look at your character and say things about it?

You tell us to 'take it apart' and 'put it back together', but what do you mean by that?

[Einselar]

What is the point of this thread exactly? Are we supposed to look at your character and say things about it?

You tell us to 'take it apart' and 'put it back together', but what do you mean by that?

Point out everything that is wrong with it. What rules were broken, what could be stronger, what should be scrapped. It's mostly for a bit of fun if you like helping other people fix their characters.

[Fizban]

It's a level 9 Soulknife with +2 LA and way more than WBL in magic items. The only things of note are DR and regeneration over "water+divine," which presumably have something to do with the DnD wiki template. I think you will find the playground is not impressed by soulknives, LA, or DnD wiki.

Also, the double yellow line means the exact opposite: do not cross, period. Dotted/dashed lines indicate that you can pass if it's otherwise safe, while solid lines indicate a no-passing zone. You're probably going to say "that's the point of the joke," except that's not a joke, it's just a simile that doesn't make any sense. And if you do think you're allowed to cross solid lines whenever you want, you need to stop driving.

[ekarney]

I think you will find the playground is not impressed by soulknives, LA, or DnD wiki.

DnD Wiki is basically a curse word at my table, before we just considered it rude to use, but after someone managed to sly an LA +0 pixie from it onto their character sheet it became a curse word.

LA is just a curse - a burden, you could get effectively similar effects, save from regeneration and the abilities from necropolitan, which is also totally rules legal unlike the DnD Wiki stuff.

If you REALLY want those extra saves and stuff, pay a Wu Jen16/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Incantatrix 3 to cast a persisted, extended Transcend Mortality on you, and a day later get Pact of Return cast on you. Borderline abusive though.

[Einselar]

It's a level 9 Soulknife with +2 LA and way more than WBL in magic items. The only things of note are DR and regeneration over "water+divine," which presumably have something to do with the DnD wiki template. I think you will find the playground is not impressed by soulknives, LA, or DnD wiki.

I don't want to impress you. I want to see what you and the playground do that can fluff in a similar fashion but not break the rules of the game.


Also, the double yellow line means the exact opposite: do not cross, period. Dotted/dashed lines indicate that you can pass if it's otherwise safe, while solid lines indicate a no-passing zone. You're probably going to say "that's the point of the joke," except that's not a joke, it's just a simile that doesn't make any sense. And if you do think you're allowed to cross solid lines whenever you want, you need to stop driving.

Probably a good thing I take the bus then. Mine is a dry sarcastic humor strongly rooted in hyperbole. If it bugs you, ignore the metaphor and take the exercise for what it is meant to be. I'm not going for Comedian of the Year, I am just curious to see what everyone does.

[Einselar]

DnD Wiki is basically a curse word at my table, before we just considered it rude to use, but after someone managed to sly an LA +0 pixie from it onto their character sheet it became a curse word.

LA is just a curse - a burden, you could get effectively similar effects, save from regeneration and the abilities from necropolitan, which is also totally rules legal unlike the DnD Wiki stuff.

If you REALLY want those extra saves and stuff, pay a Wu Jen16/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Incantatrix 3 to cast a persisted, extended Transcend Mortality on you, and a day later get Pact of Return cast on you. Borderline abusive though.

The more time I spend on Giantitp, the more I hear about Wu Jen. I need to seriously look at it, seeing as it appears to be a fundamental class for a lot so spellsword build.

As for DnD wiki, I totally agree with you. I refuse any material from it in my campaigns with the sole exception being Lancer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lancer_(3.5e_Class)) and even that exception is disallowed in some campaigns.

[Fizban]

I don't want to impress you. I want to see what you and the playground do that can fluff in a similar fashion but not break the rules of the game.
What fluff? It's a purely mechanical build build for a purely mechanical purpose. All you've given us is "Enjoy tearing the 10th Lord of Hell apart.", which is a title that could be bestowed upon anything. We don't know what modifications you made to the custom template, or what the starting stats were, which aside from WBL are the the only major rules violations to consider- unless you're saying that you deliberately violated feat requirements and wrote arbitrary numbers in there and expect us to proofread it. What are we supposed to build that can "fluff in a similar fashion but not break the rules of the game" when the only fluff is "this exact build of TWF Soulknife multitemplated Tibbit?"

The more time I spend on Giantitp, the more I hear about Wu Jen. I need to seriously look at it, seeing as it appears to be a fundamental class for a lot so spellsword build.
Not really, there's just a vocal segment that likes suggesting it. It has a couple unique spells that are more interesting to abuse with a gish build than a non-gish build, Transcend Mortality and Giant Size and that's it. The given build is basically the whole trick: take a spell that's meant to make you nigh-invincible for a couple minutes before killing you and make it last all day, then beat everything up-though it's hardly a gish build with that much lost BAB. Transcend Mortality is a 9th level spell so it's not exactly something that matters for a long time, and the build you posted is 11th.

[Inevitability]

I don't want to impress you. I want to see what you and the playground do that can fluff in a similar fashion but not break the rules of the game.

Everything can be fluffed in a similar fashion, and only very rarely does it break the game rules.

[GilesTheCleric]

The unique thing about this character is regeneration and an AoE attack action. To replicate it within the rules, give a Troll the cleave feat. I think there might be a full attack cleave in SS, but I'm AFB.

[The Viscount]

Recreating this build legally will be difficult, because we need to address a number of problems that exist in it.. First off, where are you getting the 2 LA from? Soulmerged as written has an (outlandish) LA of 1, and Fire and Air Element each have LA of 4. This character should be ECL 18, not 11. A tibbit using a two-bladed sword deals 1d6 damage, not 1d8. You're going to have to explain what you mean by regen 10/water+divine, because water is not to my knowledge a damage type.

Could you please outline what abilities from this build you would say are relevant and that you want to keep?

Out of curiosity, what character did you use this to kill?

[ekarney]

The more time I spend on Giantitp, the more I hear about Wu Jen. I need to seriously look at it, seeing as it appears to be a fundamental class for a lot so spellsword build.

As for DnD wiki, I totally agree with you. I refuse any material from it in my campaigns with the sole exception being Lancer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lancer_(3.5e_Class)) and even that exception is disallowed in some campaigns.


I think it's because A, the spell list is smaller, but also still versatile. B, The spell list has a lot of gish focused spells. One of the capstone spells basically turns you into the most beefy opponent on the field.

Plus it's got some nifty little class features and it's generally pretty fun to play.

[Einselar]

Recreating this build legally will be difficult, because we need to address a number of problems that exist in it.. First off, where are you getting the 2 LA from? Soulmerged as written has an (outlandish) LA of 1, and Fire and Air Element each have LA of 4. This character should be ECL 18, not 11. A tibbit using a two-bladed sword deals 1d6 damage, not 1d8. You're going to have to explain what you mean by regen 10/water+divine, because water is not to my knowledge a damage type.

Could you please outline what abilities from this build you would say are relevant and that you want to keep?

Out of curiosity, what character did you use this to kill?

Yes, this character's LA should be outlandishly high. A lot of LA got handwaved by the DM and an additional 3 levels were bought off.

The weapon damage was an oversight. We completely forgot they are small creatures and that it changes their damage output.

regen/water + divine was decided because she is essentially a Hellcat. Therefore she doesn't like Water and Divine damage would hurt like a sonofabitch. Usually this manifested as a wizard casting create water on top of her to disable her regeneration.

She was made to get pissed at and kill a Multiclassed munchkin of doom. I was new to 3.5 at the time, so I didn't know what classes it used, but I do know it was covered in grafts, could cast disintegrate X times per day where X is an absurdly high number, and had enough grafts that it had higher stats than the character presented here. The more I think on it now, the more I feel that it was using incredibly high levels of homebrew, but I don't have the character sheet to prove or disprove that.


What fluff? It's a purely mechanical build build for a purely mechanical purpose. All you've given us is "Enjoy tearing the 10th Lord of Hell apart.", which is a title that could be bestowed upon anything. We don't know what modifications you made to the custom template, or what the starting stats were, which aside from WBL are the the only major rules violations to consider- unless you're saying that you deliberately violated feat requirements and wrote arbitrary numbers in there and expect us to proofread it. What are we supposed to build that can "fluff in a similar fashion but not break the rules of the game" when the only fluff is "this exact build of TWF Soulknife multitemplated Tibbit?"

This is entirely my bad. The character has become such a meme amongst my dnd group. The TL;DR of it is that she is a tibbit that, at the beginning of creation, accidentally became the Lord of the Tenth plane of Hell thanks to a paperwork accident. Some Mary Suing later and she had built and owned 89 more layers of Hell to do with as she wished, namely inviting divine entities over for "Blackjack and Hookers"

It's a very mechanical build, yes. But every mechanic is meant to reflect part of her, (Except for Air Elemental's perfect fly of 100, which was acquired due to spite.

I'll keep answering questions when I get back, but I have to take off for work.

[Inevitability]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. Seems like me that this character was played in your group once, became an, I quote, 'meme', and is now presented to us in its initial form, without the history your group had that made it so memorable (I presume).

[Einselar]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it. Seems like me that this character was played in your group once, became an, I quote, 'meme', and is now presented to us in its initial form, without the history your group had that made it so memorable (I presume).

On further reflection, I see your point. I'm just so used to it I forget how many things and small bits of lore are part of the character that no one outside of the group would know.

Thanks for putting up with my antics I suppose. I'm sure I'll be posting something else soon enough.

[Hydrattler]

She was made to get pissed at and kill a Multiclassed munchkin of doom. I was new to 3.5 at the time, so I didn't know what classes it used, but I do know it was covered in grafts, could cast disintegrate X times per day where X is an absurdly high number, and had enough grafts that it had higher stats than the character presented here. The more I think on it now, the more I feel that it was using incredibly high levels of homebrew, but I don't have the character sheet to prove or disprove that.

Yeah...that person was playing a character that was entirely off the scale compared to the rest of the party, even a tad too far for pulling things back, some form of plague doctor like person, to my knowledge the only homebrew on it was a weakened variant of vampire or similar at a reduced LA (or death knight cause he doesn't like most conventional undead). It was definitely a nightmare to party with x.x (and this is coming from the person that was playing an unseelie fey at that point). Can't remember the classes although probably a spelldancer gish of some form

[Erit]

Out of curiosity, what character did you use this to kill?

A character designed by someone who held the DM and all in attendance in open contempt except for my girlfriend of the time. Said player asked to join games but insisted on playing characters with ECLs well into epics when the rest of the party would be below the double digits, and a WBL rating exceeding that appropriate for the said epic level.

Hell's Fang was a build that told rules to go sit in the corner, made in response to a character who told the spirit of the game to do likewise. The campaign containing both of them also holds Darkscale, who many concerned have dubbed "The One True Dark Knight" owing to the ludicrous amount of abilities he had which harmed himself to deal damage to enemies. The entire campaign was a mess of PCs holding power way beyond what they ought to within the scope of the system because the DM has a "throw-it-in" mentality. Which while not wrong, has proven taxing.

[prufock]

I'm not really seeing the big deal about this character. Is it just me? What's so broken about it, other than an underestimated ECL? I feel like I may be missing something.

[Erit]

I'm not really seeing the big deal about this character. Is it just me? What's so broken about it, other than an underestimated ECL? I feel like I may be missing something.

The ELC is due to copious LA buyoff. The rest of the party of that campaign is ECL 15-16.

The "broken" aspect is mostly the highly-contentious-at-the-most-generous template combination and the nearly Tarrasque-esque Regeneration. Her ability scores being rather obscene doesn't help, but the thrust of the matter is the Regeneration.

[Troacctid]

So basically you just used some broken homebrew and the character was broken as a result.

I'm not impressed.

[Vaz]

So basically you just used some broken homebrew and the character was broken as a result.

I'm not impressed.

Inb4 "BRB, just going to go home and cry, I've not got validation from Troacctid."

[Zanos]

A character designed by someone who held the DM and all in attendance in open contempt except for my girlfriend of the time. Said player asked to join games but insisted on playing characters with ECLs well into epics when the rest of the party would be below the double digits, and a WBL rating exceeding that appropriate for the said epic level.
So the DM was letting some guy cheat, and in response he let one of the other players cheat to kill him?

This is a very silly campaign.

[Troacctid]

Inb4 "BRB, just going to go home and cry, I've not got validation from Troacctid."
This happens every time with tibbits. They always run home crying. I'm sure there's a pun I could make here based on some crude cat-related slang.

[Inevitability]

So the DM was letting some guy cheat, and in response he let one of the other players cheat to kill him?

This is a very silly campaign.

I'd compare it to two kids playing cowboys and indians, getting in a fight over who shot who, and one running home then proudly declare a few minutes later his parents told him he won.

[tsj]

If a player wants to play a charecter that you as the DM deems overpowered then just don't let him play that charecter.

I've played d&d with people that were rules lawyers and I decided to stop playing with those people since they destroy the game.

You as the DM are always always always right. And even if you are not then you still are. No matter WHAT the rules say.

YOU are the rules. YOU are the DM. YOU are the GOD. YOU create the world they play in.

If you get some kicks out of making a super power full npc for whatever reason ... using official, unofficial or home brew stuff then go ahead... you have the right to create whatever npc you wish.

[Troacctid]

I've played d&d with people that were rules lawyers and I decided to stop playing with those people since they destroy the game.
Excuse me, I am a rules lawyer. I worked hard to put myself through rules law school and pass my rules bar exam so I could get a job at a prestigious rules law firm, and I do not appreciate your attitude. :smallcool:

[Einselar]

The player in question was a friend of the DM, and they were eventually booted out.


So basically you just used some broken homebrew and the character was broken as a result.

I'm not impressed.

I'm gonna go cry in my safe space now. How dare some random stranger on the internet say something that doesn't validate my reason for being.:smallamused:


If a player wants to play a character that you as the DM deems overpowered then just don't let him play that charecter.

I've played d&d with people that were rules lawyers and I decided to stop playing with those people since they destroy the game.

You as the DM are always always always right. And even if you are not then you still are. No matter WHAT the rules say.

YOU are the rules. YOU are the DM. YOU are the GOD. YOU create the world they play in.

If you get some kicks out of making a super power full npc for whatever reason ... using official, unofficial or home brew stuff then go ahead... you have the right to create whatever npc you wish.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. Sometimes you have an issue with players that can't be solved via rule zero because the resulting tantrum will cause an issue. While that happened anyway, we all were trying to accommodate the special flower child. Perhaps not the right decision, but it is the one that was made.



A character designed by someone who held the DM and all in attendance in open contempt except for my girlfriend of the time. Said player asked to join games but insisted on playing characters with ECLs well into epics when the rest of the party would be below the double digits, and a WBL rating exceeding that appropriate for the said epic level.

Hell's Fang was a build that told rules to go sit in the corner, made in response to a character who told the spirit of the game to do likewise. The campaign containing both of them also holds Darkscale, who many concerned have dubbed "The One True Dark Knight" owing to the ludicrous amount of abilities he had which harmed himself to deal damage to enemies. The entire campaign was a mess of PCs holding power way beyond what they ought to within the scope of the system because the DM has a "throw-it-in" mentality. Which while not wrong, has proven taxing.

Erit's memory is better than mine.


The ELC is due to copious LA buyoff. The rest of the party of that campaign is ECL 15-16.

The "broken" aspect is mostly the highly-contentious-at-the-most-generous template combination and the nearly Tarrasque-esque Regeneration. Her ability scores being rather obscene doesn't help, but the thrust of the matter is the Regeneration.


So basically you just used some broken homebrew and the character was broken as a result.

As Erit says, it was broken for those reasons. To go off of my swiss-cheese memory it was broken because:

Homebrew
Air and Fire Elemental Templates are not meant to be mixed
More LA was being bought off then should ever be allowed
The Tibbit is small, not medium, and should be treated as such.
DR/Water doesn't actually exist
Regeneration should never go on a PC. Ever.


So that's why this thread was made. I was mostly curious to see how I could recreate this character legally. I also managed to use the worst phrasing possible.

[Eldan]

So, you want something cat and fired themed, with area attacks?

How about, as a starting point, and this is far from overpowered, Eldritch Claw Warlock, maybe on a Tibbit? I'm sure someone can cheese regeneration that.

[Swaoeaeieu]

So that's why this thread was made. I was mostly curious to see how I could recreate this character legally. I also managed to use the worst phrasing possible.

If you want to see how to recreate this, i think the playground will need a list of what you want it to do exactly. what is the part that needs to be rebuild?

[Eldan]

If you want to see how to recreate this, i think the playground will need a list of what you want it to do exactly. what is the part that needs to be rebuild?

IF he wants it to confirm to the rules... everything?

[Swaoeaeieu]

IF he wants it to confirm to the rules... everything?

yes i get that it all needs to be redone. but i meant what does he want the rebuild to do? what parts of the originals abilities would he like to see in the new one?

[prufock]

As Erit says, it was broken for those reasons. To go off of my swiss-cheese memory it was broken because:

Homebrew
Air and Fire Elemental Templates are not meant to be mixed
More LA was being bought off then should ever be allowed
The Tibbit is small, not medium, and should be treated as such.
DR/Water doesn't actually exist
Regeneration should never go on a PC. Ever.

The LA buyoff is unimportant here though. You're in a group of level 15 characters, your real ECL is probably around 15 as well (just eyeballing it), you're likely taking on 15th-level challenges, the guy this was built to beat was probably around ECL 15. For all intents and purposes, you're ECL 15. At this level, the character is pretty much what I'd expect on nearly all metrics. Attacks, defenses, skills, special abilities ALL seem pretty standard. Ability scores are high, sure, but not unreasonably so.

There are 2 things that make him stand out to me: maneuverability and regeneration. He's got really good flight, but by level 15 flight is mandatory. Still, speed 100' of perfect maneuverability isn't so common. So he can move in and attack from farther off than most. Still, he doesn't seem to have a way to move, attack, and move again, which leaves him in melee (or he'll just focus on ranged or area attacks, which anyone can do).

The regen is good, especially if your attacker doesn't know what overcomes it, but you can still be knocked out by nonlethal damage. Divine spells overcome it, which are easy to get. I look at this guy's stats and I think "He's destroyed by a well-built power attacker, sneak attacker, or caster."

[D&DPrinceTandem]

Well the first thing i would do is change divine to good and change water to either a cold or something like that race from sandstorms that swims through sand.
2
Personally i like Soulknife 2. I would ask the Dm if he would allow your Mind Blade to form into a halo like thing(Bubble kitty) where it effects you unarmed attacks and go 2 lvls into monk then as your monk bonus feats take stunning fist and fiery fist(Fire kitty Paws). Take 1 lvl in warlock(hell kitty) and take Eldritch Claws so you get your Eldritch Blast damage to your unarmed attack, as you first invocation take Devils Sight(night vision kitty (0+0)). Dragon Fire adept1 for when you want to lay off the paws(FIRE BREATHING KITTY) take Deafening Roar for invocations because who is not going to be scared of a lion kitty. Take 1 lvl of battle dancer for Cha to ac (Dancing cats) then finally take 2 lvls in ninja because who doesn't want to die to an invisible kitty.
So your a Bubble, Fiery, Dancing, Hellish, Night vision, FIRE BREATHING, ROARING, INVISIBLE, KITTY!!!!!


also if you want to give race.
Tibbit because cats are awesome. Take half fire elemental so you a on fire! Take monster of legend which weirdly doesn't have an la but does have a challenge rating +2, make sure you get the Fast healing, and, regrow limbs.

does that cover it.

[tsj]

Excuse me, I am a rules lawyer. I worked hard to put myself through rules law school and pass my rules bar exam so I could get a job at a prestigious rules law firm, and I do not appreciate your attitude. :smallcool:

I guess you have an advantage when being a DM. But if you argue a lot with a DM then you risk using all game time discussing rules :)

I have always weived the rules as being mere guidelines :)

[Erit]

So the DM was letting some guy cheat, and in response he let one of the other players cheat to kill him?

This is a very silly campaign.

Indeed, 'tis. Thankfully it's switched more towards RP in recent sessions and the scope was always that of the evil PCs conquering the world piece by piece. But that campaign has a lot of very silly history behind it, most of which Einselar actually isn't privvy to since he joined at about the halfway mark with a completely different character from the one presented here. However, that character was "broken" in the sense of "did not work as intended" without even having Monk or Soulborn levels.

'Tis a silly place. Most here probably wouldn't enjoy it, but the campaign doesn't take itself all that seriously and so neither do I.

[Deadline]

regen/water + divine was decided because she is essentially a Hellcat. Therefore she doesn't like Water and Divine damage would hurt like a sonofabitch. Usually this manifested as a wizard casting create water on top of her to disable her regeneration.

That ... that isn't how regeneration works.

But, to take a stab at this, I'll second Eldan for using an Eldritch Claw Warlock on a Tibbit, probably with the Trollblooded feat from Dragon mag. Alternatively, give up on Regeneration, and go for one of the various ways to just be immune to damage entirely. For a lower powered option, you could do a Crusader with Stone Power for ablative Temp HP (can also be done with a caster and the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat, but you'll have fewer HP and it eats your swift action each round).

But basically when considering theme you are shooting for a Tibbit turned Hellcat?

Ability wise, what's important?

Flight + great maneuverability. Is any kind of flight sufficient here? What is the minimum maneuverability category you want to maintain?
Regeneration. Is this a must? Are you just shooting for really tough (So substitutes like DR, ablative Temp HP, or lower Regen would be ok)?
Is Soulknife relevant to the build?(it's really not a good class) Are you just wanting to have natural weapons, or weapons that can't be taken from you?
Is spellcasting a thing you are ok with? Because if you want a powerful build, there's no substitute for a spellcaster base.
What ECL are we shooting for?
Is Tibbit a requirement?
Is the Area attack thing a requirement? There are a couple of ways to do it with PrCs (Warmind and Hulking Hurler), but I don't know if those fit your theme. How necessary is it? Can area spells be used to replicate it?


I think that'll do for initial questions.

[Eldan]

Well, if Eldritch Claw Warlock is the way to go, more levels of warlock also quite easily give you Flight, Invisibility and area attacks. Improved Flight brings up your maneuverability.

[Erit]

But basically when considering theme you are shooting for a Tibbit turned Hellcat?

Ability wise, what's important?

Flight + great maneuverability. Is any kind of flight sufficient here? What is the minimum maneuverability category you want to maintain?
Regeneration. Is this a must? Are you just shooting for really tough (So substitutes like DR, ablative Temp HP, or lower Regen would be ok)?
Is Soulknife relevant to the build?(it's really not a good class) Are you just wanting to have natural weapons, or weapons that can't be taken from you?
Is spellcasting a thing you are ok with? Because if you want a powerful build, there's no substitute for a spellcaster base.
What ECL are we shooting for?
Is Tibbit a requirement?
Is the Area attack thing a requirement? There are a couple of ways to do it with PrCs (Warmind and Hulking Hurler), but I don't know if those fit your theme. How necessary is it? Can area spells be used to replicate it?


Since Ein seems to have gotten lost in the ceaseless void that is "real life" I'll answer for the sake of expedience. In order:


Good at minimum since hovering while spouting taunts is part of the character's shtick. Perfect is better since she has a favored technique of tackling other flying enemies into the clouds.
Regeneration is not required. Survivability is kind of negligible but some form of fast healing and DR would go a long way towards keeping the character mechanically consistent.
Soulknife is not inherently relevant to the character. Ein just picked it because he's a weeb.
Spellcasting is frowned upon because while it is certainly the most powerful option in the system, it also lacks the "set it and forget it" kind of style that Hell's Fang rolls with in personality.
ECL is largely irrelevant; low and high are both fine, but if you can happen to get something at 14-15 then we might be able to get the DM to approve a rebuild for the sake of removing some insanity from the field.
Tibbit is mostly required; she's a cat before anything else.
The area attack or an approximation thereof would be nice to have but isn't necessary.

Before someone questions my involvement; Einselar and I have been friends since high school, and while he's the one who initially got me into D&D I'm the one who got him into 3.5. I had no hand in the making of this character, but I do know what makes 'er tick.

[Troacctid]

I'd probably go with warlock as well. Invocations:

Least: Darkness (for the ambiance), Eldritch Glaive (to represent a flurry of claw attacks), Voice of Madness (the whole point of the character was to drive the DM insane, so let's do that in-game too)
Lesser: Fell Flight (obvious), Walk Unseen (also obvious), Brimstone Blast (for the fire theme, and to qualify for Hellfire Warlock)
Greater: Eldritch Cone (there's your AoE fire breath)

That takes you up to level 11.

[Eldan]

Yeah. Hellfire blast and Eldritch Claws gives you firey claws. Then you can use Eldritch Claws with other shapes, like Cone and the one that hits everyone around you (Storm? I forget) for area attacks, which you can fluff as scratching everyone with firey claws.

Fell Flight gives you good maneuverability. Improved Flight could take it up to Perfect, but feats are always scarce.

[Troacctid]

Eldritch Claws don't work with blast essences, so you'd want Eldritch Glaive for that.

I wouldn't take Eldritch Claws on a tibbit anyway, though. -8 Strength is a killer. It really cuts into your damage and accuracy. I mean, maybe if you cheese it away with ray of resurgence, which I guess could work if you never leave cat form.

[Erit]

Yeah. Hellfire blast and Eldritch Claws gives you firey claws. Then you can use Eldritch Claws with other shapes, like Cone and the one that hits everyone around you (Storm? I forget) for area attacks, which you can fluff as scratching everyone with firey claws.

Fell Flight gives you good maneuverability. Improved Flight could take it up to Perfect, but feats are always scarce.

Eldritch Doom, which is a Dark shape.

[Eldan]

Eldritch Claws don't work with blast essences, so you'd want Eldritch Glaive for that.

I wouldn't take Eldritch Claws on a tibbit anyway, though. -8 Strength is a killer. It really cuts into your damage and accuracy. I mean, maybe if you cheese it away with ray of resurgence, which I guess could work if you never leave cat form.

Weapon Finesse? Getting feat-starved, though.

[Troacctid]

Sounds like wasting a feat to do less damage than you would have done just by taking Eldritch Glaive. Remember, even if you have Weapon Finesse, the Strength penalty still applies to your damage.

[Einselar]

Since Ein seems to have gotten lost in the ceaseless void that is "real life" I'll answer for the sake of expedience. In order:


Good at minimum since hovering while spouting taunts is part of the character's shtick. Perfect is better since she has a favored technique of tackling other flying enemies into the clouds.
Regeneration is not required. Survivability is kind of negligible but some form of fast healing and DR would go a long way towards keeping the character mechanically consistent.
Soulknife is not inherently relevant to the character. Ein just picked it because he's a weeb.
Spellcasting is frowned upon because while it is certainly the most powerful option in the system, it also lacks the "set it and forget it" kind of style that Hell's Fang rolls with in personality.
ECL is largely irrelevant; low and high are both fine, but if you can happen to get something at 14-15 then we might be able to get the DM to approve a rebuild for the sake of removing some insanity from the field.
Tibbit is mostly required; she's a cat before anything else.
The area attack or an approximation thereof would be nice to have but isn't necessary.

Before someone questions my involvement; Einselar and I have been friends since high school, and while he's the one who initially got me into D&D I'm the one who got him into 3.5. I had no hand in the making of this character, but I do know what makes 'er tick.

I appreciate it mate. I did, in fact, get called off to work as soon as I woke up. I've not had a moment to myself.

The list is as Erit says. Regen is not needed because it's broken and in essence, I out-tank the tank in some cases, which is rather unnecessary.
No Spells. I've never been a spellslinger myself and it rather prevents the gung-ho "I'm going to charge the scariest thing on the map and keep it's attention while doing decent damage."

I don't care about soulknife. I only had it because it let me materialize a flaming weapon (DM fluff fiat)

Flight is nice, but not required. I like the Air elemental template for flight just because 100 perfect. But if there is another template the better serves that purpose (Fire Elemental in particular draws my attention,) then I will happily trade that out and find another source of flight.


That ... that isn't how regeneration works.

But, to take a stab at this, I'll second Eldan for using an Eldritch Claw Warlock on a Tibbit, probably with the Trollblooded feat from Dragon mag. Alternatively, give up on Regeneration, and go for one of the various ways to just be immune to damage entirely. For a lower powered option, you could do a Crusader with Stone Power for ablative Temp HP (can also be done with a caster and the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat, but you'll have fewer HP and it eats your swift action each round).

As fun as it was, regen was undoubtedly broken on her. Not to mention Drag Mag is notoriously unbalanced. With the amount of nonsense that is involved on this character, regen frankly doesn't need to be duplicated. Some amount of DR and/or Fast Healing wouldn't hut though. She's meant to be somewhat of an off-tank after all. Someone who can hold the attention of the scariest thing on the field to prevent overwhelming of the tank (Not really a concern seeing who our tank is, but good for porting into other campaigns.)


Flight + great maneuverability. Is any kind of flight sufficient here? What is the minimum maneuverability category you want to maintain?
Regeneration. Is this a must? Are you just shooting for really tough (So substitutes like DR, ablative Temp HP, or lower Regen would be ok)?
Is Soulknife relevant to the build?(it's really not a good class) Are you just wanting to have natural weapons, or weapons that can't be taken from you?
Is spellcasting a thing you are ok with? Because if you want a powerful build, there's no substitute for a spellcaster base.
What ECL are we shooting for?
Is Tibbit a requirement?
Is the Area attack thing a requirement? There are a couple of ways to do it with PrCs (Warmind and Hulking Hurler), but I don't know if those fit your theme. How necessary is it? Can area spells be used to replicate it? Multiple posts similar to this, but this seemed to sum them all up.

Most of these were answered quite handily by Erit, so I'll let you look to the above for that.

I'll end this post with saying that optimization isn't my priority. I want the character to be relevant in a high-ish power campaign, but being able to RP her within the confines of the DnD 3.5 rules is more important. So as far as RP is concerned:


She is a Tibbit. She is a cat to the exclusion of all else.
Because of her silly backstory, she now has a Hell motiff, specifically controlling one extra layer. While technically, she turned that layer into a casino, it's still hell and so she should likely remain fire-themed.
She is not a monk. She is the opposite of what a monk embodies. (Except perhaps for a Drunken Master)
She's Chaotic Neutral. So any alignment requirements other then that you'd really have to sell me on. And you will never sell me on Lawful.
She's not a spell slinger. Regardless of the fact that spellcasters are unmatched in power, se's a martial character


I believe that is all I have for hard RP requirements. Thanks for everyone's help!

[The Viscount]

Eldritch Claws don't work with blast essences, so you'd want Eldritch Glaive for that.

I wouldn't take Eldritch Claws on a tibbit anyway, though. -8 Strength is a killer. It really cuts into your damage and accuracy. I mean, maybe if you cheese it away with ray of resurgence, which I guess could work if you never leave cat form.

You could always just do away with it via the standard 2 level CE Soulborn dip.

[Starbuck_II]

Once upon a time, in a land far far away and right next door, I made a character. This character was called Hell's Fang. Hell's Fang was made because I and a DM were tired of a certain munchkin and decided that the rules were more like the double yellow line in the middle of the road. A mere guideline to follow and not mandatory. And so a monstrosity was created. A year later, and Hell's Fang was retired a good long time ago, but the meme lives on. Many characters have been made based on this broken Mary Sue and all have since been balanced. But that is not why I have invited you all here.

This thread is made for two-fold purposes:
1. I would like to learn more about the game, and the best way to learn is to work with something you are familiar with.
2. I'm sure others would like to learn more about the game or show off.

And so I present you with Hell's Fang's Character sheet. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=162074) I invite you to study it, tear it apart, and if you so choose, put it back together. Bonus points if you can keep her at her written level and keep the same abilities she has now. I will note that she implements a home-brew template (in addition to 2 canon ones) that the DM and I nerfed a bit (heavily) so as to not make the entire party irrelevant. You can find it here. (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Soulmerged_(3.5e_Template))

I wish you all the best of luck. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have if I remember the answers. Enjoy tearing the 10th Lord of Hell apart.

P.S. As HF was played for 2-3 levels before being retired, she bought off some LA. However, it is still incredibly broken. Enjoy!

So we get ECL 18 (9 class/11 LA) to make this due to later mentioned you messed up LA bonuses.

So for a sweeping area attack: we can make it a Soulknife/warmind if Soulknife required.

Trollblooded for Regen if need it. Then get some resist fire/acid for protection from losing the Regen.

Instead FC 2 has a magic location (worth 30K) called Shiver. If you survive 4 rounds, you get immune to shaken, frightened, sickened, nauseated, fatigue, confused, +2 fort saves, and Regen 1/Good and Chaotic.
But this lasts for 99 days before it is gone (so assume you gained it prior to game). This means your WLB treats this as a consumable meaning you are meant to get it back.