Anyone with in play experience of the revised ranger?

[MrStabby]

I may be starting a new campaign as a player in a few months so I am beginning to think about my new character.

I am beginning to get a bit excited by the new ranger: http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf

Normally we don't play with UA, homebrew or other addons like SCAG but no one in this group has ever taken a ranger and there is agreement the PHB class "could use some work". This coupled with the fact that it is intended for later release has persuaded the DM to open it up.

I wanted to solicit some feedback from people who have played the class - is it fun? How does it compare with other classes? Which archetypes have you played? Is it frustrating that a lot of the class abilities are situational? Is there something you can do better than other classes?

Whilst I might indulge in a spot of multiclassing, ranger would be the main aim.

One character I am drawn to is a coastal ranger with a Giant Crab animal companion. It seems a pretty solid companion with AC17 and the ability to improve this (OK at higher levels it can get up to 24). It also seems like it can do well to increase the tankyness of the party being tough and also using grapples to keep enemies out of melee with softer party members.

For the animal companion, its stats go up every time you get an ASI and every time your proficiency goes up. I am presuming the intent is that the ASIs are only Ranger ASIs - so you can't just multiclass fighter at ranger level 4 to create a beefcake companion with loads more ASIs.

[DizzyWood]

We are about to start another campaign and our DM is pushing one of us to play this hard. While we have several more sessions to go in the old story we are doing an intro session this weekend. One of the players is thinking of playing a halfling ranger. SO I will let you know what I think if he dose!

[Arcangel4774]

With the revised ranger your DM may consider reverting the preferred foe humanoid back to pbh ranger's version of pick 2 humanoids. Also it can be a little confusing with companion stats trying to figure out where they came from. IIRC wolves bite is str or dex + prof, with a str rider. It's ac is barbarian like (10+dex+con)*. The revised ranger adds proficiency to attack, damage, and ac. It can be ridiculous if you don't talk through these calculations with your DM first to come up with your own rules.

*these calculations aren't explicitly stated but extrapolated from comparing wolf to dire wolf to other animals like panthers.

[Specter]

Beastmaster is an absolute beast now. I'm DMing for an ape guy and it's like another party member with them. I let his beast take Weapon Master, at level because a sword-wielding ape is too cool to pass.

[TrinculoLives]

I have run exactly two sessions with the revised UA Ranger. However, the ranger was level 1 and 2 and I honestly couldn't tell much of a difference yet. He usually went first in combat, that was one thing I noticed.

[ZX6Rob]

I'm playing a Deep Stalker Revised Ranger in Curse of Strahd right now! Currently 4th level, moving to 5th in the next session or two, I expect.

I think it's a big improvement over the Ranger as presented in the PHB, in a lot of subtle ways. Your abilities feel more broadly applicable, and especially with the Deep Stalker archetype, I feel like I'm a much more effective skirmisher than was previously possible. Advantage on initiative and always-on bonuses from Natural Explorer, rather than things that were previously tied to specific terrains, mean that I feel like my abilities matter more and I don't have to remember to use them situationally.

The big changes are all around the Beastmaster, and from what I've seen, it's a huge improvement. I really like the new Coordinated Attack replacing Extra Attack, and moving the latter to the archetype choice was an excellent improvement. It frees up the Beastmaster's pet to be more self-sufficient and take more real actions in combat.

All in all, I've all but replaced the PHB Ranger with the new UA Ranger in both the game I'm playing in and games in which I DM. I think it addresses pretty much every major complaint about the existing Ranger while still staying well within the bounds of power and balance as established by the rest of the classes at large.

[Gwendol]

I'm trying out one myself, but it's too soon to tell as the ranger is typically quite strong early on (comparing with my experience of the original ranger). Going first is a thing, and the ability to attack with advantage early on in combat can be quite the tide-turner.

[Breaklance]

I'm taking with my DM about him letting me play the revised ranger and the biggest thing I can think of as problematic is the companion stats. It's a low level campaign ending around lvl 8 so it shouldn't get too crazy but I also intend to go halfling and ride my wolf into combat as a makeshift tank option. Our group has been a bit too chaotic for the paladin so he left the group (the PC stayed and made a diff character he was just finding it too hard to stick to his oaths with us around)

But tldr I'm also very interested in how others have handled / ruled some of the changes and stats

[mephnick]

Run a few sessions with a level 10 Hunter ranger. It obviously isn't much different but the new extras from the base class seem to make the player happy. My only complaint is that I don't think the favoured enemy change was worth doing, I thought it was fine to start with.

[MeeposFire]

Run a few sessions with a level 10 Hunter ranger. It obviously isn't much different but the new extras from the base class seem to make the player happy. My only complaint is that I don't think the favoured enemy change was worth doing, I thought it was fine to start with.

I think it will tend to come up more often than before which will probably make most players happier.

The new one is closer to the 1e version of ranger which had a wide list (with great damage in 1e) whereas the original was closer to 3e which was far more situational.

[shuangwucanada]

On our table, all of the players plus DM believe that the new ranger is over powered. It will hurt the game.

[ZX6Rob]

On our table, all of the players plus DM believe that the new ranger is over powered. It will hurt the game.

Have you played with it yet? Which parts do you believe are overpowered, and why?

Having played one, I don't think it's overpowered at all. Seems right where it needs to be now.

That said, if you really don't like it, the original Ranger will be remaining AL-legal even after they end up publishing the Revised version, whenever they get around to doing that.

[Pramxnim]

I'm playing a level 11 Beastmaster Ranger, and the new ranger is pretty sweet, but definitely not overpowered.

In a round, you'll get up to 3 attacks if you can position yourself and your beast companion correctly (1 from the beast on its turn, 1 from you and conditionally 1 from the beast on your turn). The beast's multiattack is also great, allowing you to deal with multiple foes at the same time. With the beast's improved hp and saves, as well as its decent AC, you can afford to let it do this without too much fear.

However, you won't always get to use the maximum number of attacks per round, and by itself, the Beastmaster Ranger is fairly weak (one attack per round, even with Favored Enemy bonus and Hunter's Mark just doesn't cut it). You really need to work in concert with your beast.

Primeval Awareness is great, but should be used sparingly to avoid derailing the DM's plans too much (plus it can be obnoxious if abused), and the bonus action Dash is really helpful for getting in position quickly. Unfortunately, the tradeoff is you can't command the beast to Dash anymore, making it less mobile than before (and since you take your turns separately, the mounted halfling/gnome Beastmaster is a thing of the past now).

I didn't like how they nerfed the beast's attack bonus. Before, you used to just add the Ranger's proficiency bonus to the beast's attack rolls, but now you replace the beast's proficiency bonus with your own, resulting in a -2 to attack rolls, which makes the beast less accurate in parties with magic weapons. The beast's attack is also annoyingly not magical after a certain point, rendering it near useless in high level fights against enemies who resist nonmagical attacks.

In terms of damage, you're still trailing behind the other melee classes on account of having more inconsistent attack scenarios, but you're more effective against groups of enemies if you can maneuver the beast into prime position to strike. Also, if you can, get an ally to cast Haste on your beast companion since its attack deals more damage than yours.

[mephnick]

On our table, all of the players plus DM believe that the new ranger is over powered. It will hurt the game.

Nah, the only thing really wrong with it is how front loaded it is for dipping which I assume will be spread out a bit when published.

[Breaklance]

Unfortunately, the tradeoff is you can't command the beast to Dash anymore, making it less mobile than before (and since you take your turns separately, the mounted halfling/gnome Beastmaster is a thing of the past now).

I didn't like how they nerfed the beast's attack bonus. Before, you used to just add the Ranger's proficiency bonus to the beast's attack rolls, but now you replace the beast's proficiency bonus with your own, resulting in a -2 to attack rolls, which makes the beast less accurate in parties with magic weapons. The beast's attack is also annoyingly not magical after a certain point, rendering it near useless in high level fights against enemies who resist nonmagical attacks.


How so? I mean yeah if you are riding your beast you can't use the bonus dash but I'd think it's a fair trade off for mounted combat bonuses especially with your beast being tougher and you then harder to kick off it.

If the two of you end up far apart in the attack order it could be a lot harder to work in concert but that's true even without being on top of your pet. since you become more dependent on hunters mark for doing even decent damage and your pet doing more damage I think that would always be a tactical concern

[Arcangel4774]

I didn't like how they nerfed the beast's attack bonus. Before, you used to just add the Ranger's proficiency bonus to the beast's attack rolls, but now you replace the beast's proficiency bonus with your own, resulting in a -2 to attack rolls, which makes the beast less accurate in parties with magic weapons. The beast's attack is also annoyingly not magical after a certain point, rendering it near useless in high level fights against enemies who resist nonmagical attacks.

In terms of damage, you're still trailing behind the other melee classes on account of having more inconsistent attack scenarios, but you're more effective against groups of enemies if you can maneuver the beast into prime position to strike. Also, if you can, get an ally to cast Haste on your beast companion since its attack deals more damage than yours.

I'll use wolf as an example as I mentioned that I had determined calculations (although nothing was explicitly mentioned in book)
Old proficiency was 2, and is now replaced by a 2 that will scale up as levels are gained.

Hit bonus = str/dex + prof
Assuming every wolf asi has been invested in dex thats +8 for level 10. Not bad.

AC = 10 + dex + con + prof
Now that's a fairly decent 19. Not bad

Let's assume the wolf can react for half the rounds accounting for enemy not in range and Rangers not attacking.
DPR = 1.5(2d4+dex/str+prof)
That's again a fairly nice 19.5

This is all before we factor in bite's prone rider, and the frequent advantage from pack tactics.

[Naanomi]

I don't think natural armor is tied to Con in the way people seem to be implying... it certainally isn't for my giant crab

My ranger (13th) isn't optimized really but I've had a great time with the new version... feeling more useful and less 'gimmicky', especially since I chose my initial favored terrain for background reasons then we we were never there... Water Gensai with a giant crab using ALish Rules

[MrStabby]

The other question I meant to ask was if people felt that they got enough spells per day? Hunter's mark is obviously a great spell but less good for a beastmaster ranger than a hunter with hordebreaker and 2 attacks. The other spells all seem a little immediate - even if very good.

Hail of thorns is nice, ensnaring strike is nice, even fog cloud can be good but you don't get many slots. I was contemplating a 1 level dip into warlock just to get about 6 more spells per day. What I don't know is if this is important in practice.

[Naanomi]

Spells always feel pretty limited; I was using Beast Bond until I started focusing on using a net now I mostly Ensnaring Strike with the bulk of my slots; with some AoE and Pass w/out Trace as needed

[Arcangel4774]

I don't think natural armor is tied to Con in the way people seem to be implying... it certainally isn't for my giant crab

You're probably right, I only got to that conclusion when comparing the 3 wolves in the monster manual (normal, dire, and winter) and using the panther to confirm my results. After posting I went back and looked and not many other things follow that rule. I guess it's my logic that dex should support AC of things that aren't arrmored, and worked from there. I concede that that point is likely wrong, and definitely wrong for an armored like crab.

Unfortunately my case was convincing enough with 4 examples that my DM didn't bother looking into it himself.

[Breaklance]

You're probably right, I only got to that conclusion when comparing the 3 wolves in the monster manual (normal, dire, and winter) and using the panther to confirm my results. After posting I went back and looked and not many other things follow that rule. I guess it's my logic that dex should support AC of things that aren't arrmored, and worked from there. I concede that that point is likely wrong, and definitely wrong for an armored like crab.

Unfortunately my case was convincing enough with 4 examples that my DM didn't bother looking into it himself.

I was running numbers on the "improved" wolf and was getting 16 AC at level 5. It doesn't wear armor so I was getting to that via 13 natural + 3 proficiency.

Getting him light armor should run cheap. Studdes leather costs 180 gp (45 X 4) and boosts its AC to 18 (12 from armor +3 Dex after Asi +3 proficiency) which isn't bad at all.

I was considering running with a shield, defense style, and mounted combat for my own AC 19 to protect him. But other than having way higher HP the pet should have similar if not better defenses than their ranger buddy. That is if your DM will allow barding.

[Beerbarian]

I was playing a PHB Mountain Dwarf Ranger when the UA Revised Ranger came out. The DM let me reroll my character into a Beast Conclave Ranger. We're playing Rage of Demons, so we're in the Underdark, so I managed to get a Giant Wolf Spider for a companion.

I can tell you that it's a ton of fun to play, but also a little tough to remember everything. You're essentially playing 2 characters now, so you hog a bit of play time, but no one seems to mind. We have a small party, so the Spider is a welcome addition. The spider also has poison on it's attack, which we determined the DC is based on his (my) proficiency + WIS modifier so that we can keep it balanced like a spell since it can apply with each attack.

The spider is very stealthy, and can climb ceilings. We recently had him stealth climb above an unsuspecting group of bad guys that were clustered, and the Bard polymorphed the spider into an Elephant. Operation Dumbo Drop, bad guys went splat, spider took only a little fall damage. Pretty hilarious.

Primeval awareness is very useful. The DM just gives me pertinent info, I tell him what info I am seeking, ei, "I stretch out my awareness seeking any humanoids that are near our position." or something like that. That way he's not describing the entire city.

Natural Explorer is great, Spike Growth + Mobility means I can entangle the enemy, run in, hit them, run out, and they keep taking damage trying to get to me. TWF means we are attacking 4x/round, and if I want, I can now Conjure Animals to really make a mess of the bad guys.

It's a lot to manage, and I wouldn't recommend it for a new player, but for someone who wants some versatility, it's really great.

[Foxhound438]

One guy tried new BM ranger, made the mistake of not having giant crab companion, ultimately when I offered the group rebuilds (one was hating his build, one I had to ban psion out from under them) he decided to instead play barbarian in the 7th campaign in a row... In any case, it felt strong enough. It's pretty clear looking at the things it gets that it's strictly better than PHB ranger, with the possible exception of the loss of extra attack; losing the beast hurts a lot more with this version.

[Arcangel4774]

Getting him light armor should run cheap. Studdes leather costs 180 gp (45 X 4) and boosts its AC to 18 (12 from armor +3 Dex after Asi +3 proficiency)

I'm liking this ruling of it better, I'll show my DM. We were having issues with barding being weaker, but if we assume natural is fixed, reimplimenting the prof. And allowing armor to allow addition of dex, it would work much cleaner and without having to come up with new rules for each beast.

[Breaklance]

I'm liking this ruling of it better, I'll show my DM. We were having issues with barding being weaker, but if we assume natural is fixed, reimplimenting the prof. And allowing armor to allow addition of dex, it would work much cleaner and without having to come up with new rules for each beast.

My thought being that armor replaces their natural armor and allows for Dex as that type of armor specifies and the prof bonus is tied to special abilities like the monk / barb unarmored defense adding str/wis

You could get your companion AC pretty high, but I'd think the high monetary cost and how their HP is pretty low should compensate that. Imo a beast master without his beast his severely handicapped so your pet should only die if your being stupid with it and not cause someone gets a lucky crit. Even with an AC north of 20 it's hardly unkillable just harder which to me makes sense in that DMs don't typically go around trying to cut off your hand every combat if your a fighter.

The ability to ressurect your pet lessens this to an extent but still if you can't take a long rest to do so your stuck fighting one handed basically.