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JellyPooga
2016-10-31, 11:04 AM
So the other thread about Bards knocking around got me thinking about their spell list and the question of Power Word: Heal popped into my head again.

It's an odd sort of spell;

- It's Bard only, which is odd in itself. You'd think Cleric would get access to this 9th level healing spell, but they don't.

- It's a bit of a cure-all; restores HP to max and strips off a bunch of status effects (including prone). Compared to an upcast Heal, which restores 100 HP and removes a similar list of conditions, it's not doing that much more.

So what's the opinion on it? I've never rated it particularly highly because it's a rare situation where you need to spend your 1/day ultimate magic spell on mere HP restoration, but is there something I'm missing?

I imagine it could come in at a critical juncture to get the Fighter or Barbarian back on his feet to continue his slug-fest with the BBEG, but it seems...a bit of a waste, really, when you could probably True Polymorph or PW:Kill that same bad guy, let alone any of the other options available to the Bard (who, at lvl.20, potentially knows all four 9th level spells on his list, plus two off-list ones). Time Stop, for example, would let you go do a bunch of other stuff, then on the last "free" turn, go cast Heal, an up-cast Cure Wounds or other healing spell to get that Fighter back up; which seems a better use of a 9th level spell to me, especially in such a critical situation.

RickAllison
2016-10-31, 11:26 AM
One good thing about the spell is it has no upper limit. For most PCs it is a waste (barring corner cases like level 20 barbarians with 24 Con and Tough), but it becomes far more useful with powerful NPC allies. That epic showdown between Tiamat and Bahamut? Becomes a lot more one-sided when the dragonborn bard fully regenerates Bahamut.

jas61292
2016-10-31, 11:34 AM
While not a mechanical benefit, one could argue that using this spell is the ultimate show of bardliness. It is currently, due to various feats and class features, the only spell in the entire game unique to one class and one class alone, with that class being bard.

That alone would be reason enough for me to want it on my high level bard.

Joe the Rat
2016-10-31, 11:50 AM
The other comparable is Mass Heal, which doles out a lot more HP to a lot more targets, with fewer de-debuffs.

But what does PWH have going for it?
It's native to the Bard List. No spending Magic Secrets to get to it.
Unlimited HP cap - Beats the upcast Heal on those rare super-high-hp characters... or NPC allies... or polymorphs (Get that T-Rex up to full!)
Panacea - fix (almost) all the debuffs. Handy if somebody has been piling on.
V component. All you need is a voice. No finger waggle, no touchy. This is a minor feature, but I do love spells that require nothing more than words. It's rather Bardish (Bardiche?)

Ninja_Prawn
2016-11-01, 06:18 AM
V component. All you need is a voice. No finger waggle, no touchy.

...It has an S component in my PHB. Has that been in the errata?

Arkhios
2016-11-01, 06:42 AM
While not a mechanical benefit, one could argue that using this spell is the ultimate show of bardliness. It is currently, due to various feats and class features, the only spell in the entire game unique to one class and one class alone, with that class being bard.

That alone would be reason enough for me to want it on my high level bard.

Actually, it isn't the only spell unique to one class. Elemental Weapon is unique to Paladin (which is slightly odd, as the spell can be upcast at 7th level slot which paladins don't have - unless they multiclass)

DivisibleByZero
2016-11-01, 06:53 AM
Actually, it isn't the only spell unique to one class. Elemental Weapon is unique to Paladin (which is slightly odd, as the spell can be upcast at 7th level slot which paladins don't have - unless they multiclass)

The various Smite spells, some of the archery spells for Ranger, etc.
Magical Secrets waves.
His point is that there aren't ANY spells which are unique to any one class in the game because of MS. But the Bard having a spell unique to itself means that this spell is literally the only unique spell there is, because Bards can poach spells from other others, but no one can poach spells from them.

Arkhios
2016-11-01, 07:42 AM
The various Smite spells, some of the archery spells for Ranger, etc.
Magical Secrets waves.
His point is that there aren't ANY spells which are unique to any one class in the game because of MS. But the Bard having a spell unique to itself means that this spell is literally the only unique spell there is, because Bards can poach spells from other others, but no one can poach spells from them.

Is it? Or is it just your interpretation of what he said? I read it differently, and you read it your way. Let's just agree to disagree and move on, shall we? :)

DivisibleByZero
2016-11-01, 08:00 AM
Is it? Or is it just your interpretation of what he said? I read it differently, and you read it your way. Let's just agree to disagree and move on, shall we? :)
That wasn't just my interpretation. That's what he said. That was his point.

There are many spells unique to a single class, most of them Pally or Ranger, some of them Wizard or Cleric.
But none of them are truly unique to that class because of MS.
A unique Bard spell truly is unique to Bards.

Arnie82
2016-11-01, 08:33 AM
Is it? Or is it just your interpretation of what he said? I read it differently, and you read it your way. Let's just agree to disagree and move on, shall we? :)

That's what was said. He mentioned feats and class feature. BARDS have access to every spell be a use of MS so your examples earlier can still be taken by a bard.

Arkhios
2016-11-01, 08:36 AM
That's what was said. He mentioned feats and class feature. BARDS have access to every spell be a use of MS so your examples earlier can still be taken by a bard.


That wasn't just my interpretation. That's what he said. That was his point.

There are many spells unique to a single class, most of them Pally or Ranger, some of them Wizard or Cleric.
But none of them are truly unique to that class because of MS.
A unique Bard spell truly is unique to Bards.

You just couldn't let it be? Was is truly necessary to flaunt about it?

Arnie82
2016-11-01, 08:42 AM
You just couldn't let it be? Was is truly necessary to flaunt about it?


What was flaunted?

Arkhios
2016-11-01, 08:51 AM
What was flaunted?

I may have read it wrong, but you just had to flaunt with your reading it differently (which, I admit, may have been correct interpretation) Yay! Want a medal?

Arnie82
2016-11-01, 08:56 AM
I may have read it wrong, but you just had to flaunt with your reading it differently (which, I admit, may have been correct interpretation) Yay! Want a medal?

All I did was support the other persons statement that you read it wrong. That is not flaunting anything. NO need to get all defensive. If you don't want people to point out when your wrong, don't try to point out other people's "mistakes".

You miss read something, and that happens. You whining that someone pointed it out is just sad.

*On a final note, yes I want my gold medal, because I was right and you were wrong. * that's flaunting and sarcasm.

Arkhios
2016-11-01, 09:00 AM
All I did was support the other persons statement that you read it wrong. That is not flaunting anything. NO need to get all defensive. If you don't want people to point out when your wrong, don't try to point out other people's "mistakes".

You miss read something, and that happens. You whining that someone pointed it out is just sad.

*On ila final note, yes I want my gold medal, because I was right and you were wrong. * that's flaunting and sarcasm.

I agreed that DBZ may have read it differently. I never said I was right and he was wrong. I just read it differently, simple as that. No need to drive your point any further.

Arnie82
2016-11-01, 09:02 AM
Back on topic, I'm not sure if it's worth the high level spell slot. Knowing it is not a bad thing, I just think you spend your level 9 else where. Granted, when you do use it, it could be fun.

Biggstick
2016-11-01, 12:02 PM
Back on topic, I'm not sure if it's worth the high level spell slot. Knowing it is not a bad thing, I just think you spend your level 9 else where. Granted, when you do use it, it could be fun.

Thank you lol.

I'd definitely agree with some of the posters above in that Power Word Heal is a strong spell if you are fighting with an ally that has a huge amount of hp. This is even more effective if you have an NPC on your side with a huge amount of hp (Bahamut vs Tiamat for example), and you're able to pop them back up to full hp. If you're playing the game at level 17+, it is definitely conceivable to have an NPC ally or PC ally with that sort of hp bonus.

Other then that though, I'd definitely be looking at Foresight or True Polymorph as a Bard.

Ashrym
2016-11-01, 05:32 PM
It's a bit niche for the limited selection of high level spells but it's good against several conditions and it heals a lot more than an upcast heal spell.

I think mass heal is generally the superior healing spell (700 is a lot of hp) but PWH has a clear role in recovery on a teammate who gets dropped at such a high level as demonstrated by the rare prone recovery included with the spell.

I am of the opinion that healing spells < damage mitigation regardless and status effect removal / protection is the true purpose of a healer. PWH fits that nicely and foresight is more effective but it's not like a person can plan out foresight on the PC who would have needed the healing. The advantage with PWH over foresight is a guarantee the ninth level slot goes to the PC who needs it.

It's a decent spell but situational.

jas61292
2016-11-01, 07:34 PM
For what its worth, yes I was mostly talking about Magical Secrets. That lets bards get every spell in the game, so the only truly class specific spells would have to be bard spells. There are only 2 uniquely bard spells, Vicious Mockery, which can be grabbed by anyone with Magic Initiate, and Power Word Heal.

Naanomi
2016-11-01, 07:46 PM
Good on an enemy... nothing more obnoxious in an ancient dragon fight than when her 'herald' you were mostly ignoring pumps her back to full

Dimers
2016-11-01, 09:10 PM
One advantage of PWH over other 9th level spells is OOC. If your spell lets your friend's character be conscious and useful, your friend will probably be much happier than if your spell just goes toward finishing off the baddies. Being unable to play is no fun. And if you're playing a bard, you're more likely to be the sort of player who gets a kick out of supporting your friends.

Specter
2016-11-01, 09:56 PM
One point in favor of it is that it makes a Bard a Tarrasque's best friend. Get your Tarrasque a bard buddy sent from the upper planes to bring him back to full HP and you can have dozens of 20th-level dudes against a nice challenge.

MaxWilson
2016-11-01, 09:59 PM
One good thing about the spell is it has no upper limit. For most PCs it is a waste (barring corner cases like level 20 barbarians with 24 Con and Tough), but it becomes far more useful with powerful NPC allies. That epic showdown between Tiamat and Bahamut? Becomes a lot more one-sided when the dragonborn bard fully regenerates Bahamut.

Tiamat: *Counterspell!*
Bahamut: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of Power Word: Heal*
Tiamat's Other Head: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of the Counterspell of Power Word Heal"
Bahamut: aw, rats!

RickAllison
2016-11-01, 10:04 PM
Tiamat: *Counterspell!*
Bahamut: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of Power Word: Heal*
Tiamat's Other Head: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of the Counterspell of Power Word Heal"
Bahamut: aw, rats!

Nope! She gets one reaction per turn from Multiple Heads, not unlimited reactions. Bahamut is fully healed. You know, supposing she doesn't also have henchmen using Counterspell (which if the PCs are there, they probably are too).

Ashrym
2016-11-01, 10:20 PM
Nope! She gets one reaction per turn from Multiple Heads, not unlimited reactions. Bahamut is fully healed. You know, supposing she doesn't also have henchmen using Counterspell (which if the PCs are there, they probably are too).

Does she even have counterspell available? I didn't see it in her status block.

RickAllison
2016-11-01, 10:31 PM
Does she even have counterspell available? I didn't see it in her status block.

I hand waved that as it could just be her not at full power, but I see no reason why he would give her an ability that is already represented in her stat block, especially when it is one with no precedence in this edition.

ShikomeKidoMi
2016-11-04, 06:53 AM
Tiamat: *Counterspell!*
Bahamut: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of Power Word: Heal*
Tiamat's Other Head: *Counterspell! the Counterspell of the Counterspell of Power Word Heal"
Bahamut: aw, rats!


Nope! She gets one reaction per turn from Multiple Heads, not unlimited reactions. Bahamut is fully healed. You know, supposing she doesn't also have henchmen using Counterspell (which if the PCs are there, they probably are too).
But if she gets one extra reaction from Multipleheads, that's two. Two counterspells are two reactions, thus the example works.

RickAllison
2016-11-04, 07:11 AM
But if she gets one extra reaction from Multipleheads, that's two. Two counterspells are two reactions, thus the example works.

No, you're wrong. The ability states that Tiamat gets one reaction per turn instead of one reaction per round. She gets one Counterspell per turn, but for the example she needs multiple Counterspells in one turn. Bahamut is healed, hooray, Good wins.

Biggstick
2016-11-04, 10:50 AM
No, you're wrong. The ability states that Tiamat gets one reaction per turn instead of one reaction per round. She gets one Counterspell per turn, but for the example she needs multiple Counterspells in one turn. Bahamut is healed, hooray, Good wins.

Does she have a ninth level Counterspell? If not, she's rolling a die to see if she can hit a DC 19 with that Counterspell check.

Even if she does succeed, you've burnt her high level spells.

Asmotherion
2016-11-04, 12:07 PM
If the 3.5 ruling that healing energy damages undead instead of healing them still applied, it would have been somewhat interesting due to versality, as dealing 100 HP of direct damage to a Lich could be a life-saving situation. However the spell specifically says it does nothing to Undead or Constructs, thus even speculation that it might have worked this way is shut down.

In other (power) words, power words are sub-optimal choices, as all their effects have much better alternatives:

Power Word Heal: A much better alternative is ofcource Mass Heal (also accessible by the Bard ofcource), as it can heal up to 700 HP, divided as you want, to as many creatures you want within 60 feet ... instead of just 100 HP and a range of touch. Even Heal cast at 9th level is better, healing the same amount of HP, but at least with a range of 60 feet, instead of touch.

Power Word Kill: Wile virtually a good spell, at first glance, you have no way to know how much HP your oponent has left (unless I'm missing something, but I don't think so). So, using it is a huge gambit, betting your presious 9th level spell slot, that the opponent has less than 100 HP. Also, it's usually only usefull when you are fighting a boss fight, with a massive HP boss (such as a Dragon), were it would be dificult to judge if its at the right hp, and you are entirelly dependent on DM description. At this point you're also better off targeting said boss with a Disinegrade spell, or Finger of Death. Or simply continue doing what you did till now, because if it worked till the Massive HP oponent lost that much HP, you were doing something right, don't you think?

Power Word Stun: Or cast Hold Monster. Ok, PWS doesn't have concentration, is not a 9th but 8th level spell which doesn't make it as terrible as the other 2 power words... that said, what's that about a constitution save? The things you'd need to pws will usually have a huge con bonus, and profisiency in the save, so you're basically stunning it for one round, 2-3 at best. Better use Hold Monster, with a wisdom save... Upcasting it, can also target more than one oponent, witch is neat.

Ashrym
2016-11-04, 01:31 PM
If the 3.5 ruling that healing energy damages undead instead of healing them still applied, it would have been somewhat interesting due to versality, as dealing 100 HP of direct damage to a Lich could be a life-saving situation. However the spell specifically says it does nothing to Undead or Constructs, thus even speculation that it might have worked this way is shut down.

True but irrelevant. 5e mechanics are independent of 3e mechanics.


In other (power) words, power words are sub-optimal choices, as all their effects have much better alternatives:

Not necessarily. More situational is a better way to put it.


Word Heal: A much better alternative is ofcource Mass Heal (also accessible by the Bard ofcource), as it can heal up to 700 HP, divided as you want, to as many creatures you want within 60 feet ... instead of just 100 HP and a range of touch. Even Heal cast at 9th level is better, healing the same amount of HP, but at least with a range of 60 feet, instead of touch.

Power word heal has no healing limit. That 20th level dwarf bbn with the bonus hp, 24 con, and tough feat would still heal every point, not just 100 hp. He would also get to use his reaction to stand up from the prone that came with dropping so he's ready to move on his turn. That's far better than a 9th level heal spell.

If there is only one person to heal then all those extra points from mass heal don't come into play and the condition removal becomes more relevant.

Mass heal is generally better because it heals the party and with range but PWH is situationally better.


Word Kill: Wile virtually a good spell, at first glance, you have no way to know how much HP your oponent has left (unless I'm missing something, but I don't think so). So, using it is a huge gambit, betting your presious 9th level spell slot, that the opponent has less than 100 HP. Also, it's usually only usefull when you are fighting a boss fight, with a massive HP boss (such as a Dragon), were it would be dificult to judge if its at the right hp, and you are entirelly dependent on DM description. At this point you're also better off targeting said boss with a Disinegrade spell, or Finger of Death. Or simply continue doing what you did till now, because if it worked till the Massive HP oponent lost that much HP, you were doing something right, don't you think?

Cast polymorph first. Then the target has less than 100 hp. PWK will work and the development feedback on it was the character changes back in form but dead is still dead unless a newer response came out that I missed.

Extra slot to cast and action, and polymorph has a save added to the mix but the combination can work.


Word Stun: Or cast Hold Monster. Ok, PWS doesn't have concentration, is not a 9th but 8th level spell which doesn't make it as terrible as the other 2 power words... that said, what's that about a constitution save? The things you'd need to pws will usually have a huge con bonus, and profisiency in the save, so you're basically stunning it for one round, 2-3 at best. Better use Hold Monster, with a wisdom save... Upcasting it, can also target more than one oponent, witch is neat.

PWS has no initial save either. It's guaranteed to keep the target stunned from the caster's turn until the end of the target's next turn. No concentration is nice and V only makes it suitable with both hands full regardless of feats.

PWS will also doesn't stipulate that it doesn't work on undead like hold does.


Each of those can be better in the right situation but there is no guarantee of that situation. PWH is generally better for single target's because of the different status removal portion.