PDA

View Full Version : Encumbrance



ndragonsbane
2007-07-12, 01:41 PM
I'm getting ready to start a new campaign that will have only 2 characters. Now, I'm quite used to running campaigns for only a few characters and one thing I've noted in the past (as I'm generally a stickler for having PC's keep track of weight) is it can be ridiculously hard to haul around treasure.

Here's the question: just how strict do you guys (or your DM's) follow the encumbrance rules?

I've personally had campaigns where my DM didn't even require us to write down weight for anything and the characters (when higher level) ended up carrying 4 weapons an extra set of armor and about 10000gp each easily.

I've also been in a couple of campaigns as a rogue where I have had serious issues with my carrying capacity. (Ex: A Tiefling Rogue with a STR of 12 is having to rethink his standard equipment so that he can wear both studded leather armor and a buckler without being medium-ly encumbered...a serious pain as he has hardly any other equipment aside from food a dagger and a couple darts.)

I'm thinking about only using the encumbrance rules when the PC's are trying to tote around a few thousand gold each or possibly large items like vases and carpets; the rest of the time I'll just ignore the weight of the PC's equipment.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 01:45 PM
Some players appreciate going by the book (with encumberance and all the rules). Ask if your two players will want to.

Otherwise just have a general idea of what they're carrying and let them know when they'd be slowing themselves down or when it's just not possible to carry more.

de-trick
2007-07-12, 01:46 PM
the only time I use encumbrance is when I'm a class that needs to be in a light load eg ranger, rogue, barbarian, if im a fighter or paladin i don't care because with a 18 strength u can carry alot of equipment

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 01:56 PM
the only time I use encumbrance is when I'm a class that needs to be in a light load eg ranger, rogue, barbarian, if im a fighter or paladin i don't care because with a 18 strength u can carry alot of equipment

Being at a light load is very important for every class, even fighters or paladins with 18 str. Otherwise you're Max Dex goes down, you're taking check penalties, and your movement is reduced (including how fast you can run).

I don't see why you'd play by the rules only some of the time.

de-trick
2007-07-12, 02:05 PM
I ussally play as dwarfs

FireSpark
2007-07-12, 02:05 PM
This is actually a pretty easy problem to solve, especially since you're the DM. As such, you can ensure that one of the earlier treasure items that PCs get is one (or more if necessary) bag of holding. Also, a portable hole makes a great money pit. Just open it up on the floor, and sweep all the the loose coins in! :smallbiggrin:

Indon
2007-07-12, 02:07 PM
My group generally tracks items, but assumes coins are weightless... thankfully!

Rama_Lei
2007-07-12, 02:09 PM
If encumbrance is hurting your characters, then don't over do it. Just be reasonable. Let them where slightly heavier armor, but don't let them haul around an entire shop.

Piccamo
2007-07-12, 02:10 PM
Yeah, coins are weightless. Equipment is not, but generally that's not tracked too closely. In my current campaign I also got rid of encumbrance by armor and changed it to only by load level.

Matthew
2007-07-12, 02:12 PM
Most games I run are 'expeditionary', so there is plenty of carrying capacity in the form of Hirelings, Henchmen, Pack Animals, etc... Usually a good deal of initial planning goes into an expedition on the part of the Player Characters.

However, when handling smaller groups of individuals, I tend to pay fairly close attention to encumbrance. Certainly, dragging around 10,000 GP (200 lbs!) would be duly noted. On the other hand, I'm fairly reasonable about carrying capacity.

0oo0
2007-07-12, 02:16 PM
In our games we never really keep track of weight. The DM probably wouldn't allow us to carry around the castle gate or anything of that nature, but for the most part, encumbrance is ignored in our games. I personally like this, because encumbrance and nit picky weight tallying doesn't fit with our games style.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 02:17 PM
Most games I run are 'expeditionary', so there is plenty of carrying capacity in the form of Hirelings, Henchmen, Pack Animals, etc... Usually a good deal of initial planning goes into an expedition on the part of the Player Characters.

My three players just bought a mule and for the first time I realize how amazing they are to low level characters. They move at normal human walking speed and carry a small horde of loot and items. At only 8 gp, who can't afford to start the game with one?


However, when handling smaller groups of individuals, I tend to pay fairly close attention to encumbrance. Certainly, dragging around 10,000 GP (200 lbs!) would be duly noted. On the other hand, I'm fairly reasonable about carrying capacity.

In the end most DMs just want the game to Go, so I think we all become reasonable/flexible.

Quietus
2007-07-12, 02:40 PM
Yeah, coins are weightless. Equipment is not, but generally that's not tracked too closely. In my current campaign I also got rid of encumbrance by armor and changed it to only by load level.

Coins weigh 1 lb per 50 coins.


Being at a light load is very important for every class, even fighters or paladins with 18 str. Otherwise you're Max Dex goes down, you're taking check penalties, and your movement is reduced (including how fast you can run).

I don't see why you'd play by the rules only some of the time.

But if the penalties from your armor are bigger than the penalties for encumbrance, then the encumbrance doesn't matter.

Piccamo
2007-07-12, 02:42 PM
Coins weigh 1 lb per 50 coins.

Not in my games :smalltongue:

valadil
2007-07-12, 02:56 PM
We usually start with encumbrance, but forget about it as the game progresses. In general as long as you're wearing an item in each slot and not carrying around too much excess you're probably fine. Of course I'm also used to higher level games where everyone has a Heward's Handy Haversack or three.

shakes019
2007-07-12, 03:15 PM
As a player, I always want to start with a mount or mule just to offset carrying capacity. Of course, I have had a number of DM's come up with ingenious ways to eliminate the poor thing.

Most gaming groups have gone with a cash society that assumes multiple denominations of money in order to allow for cash to be weightless. We've never felt any interest in role-playing merchants who can't make change. Unless the DM didn't want us to have something, or wanted us to pay extra for something we wanted.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-12, 03:25 PM
Not in my games

Ah, so the dragon's hoard is one trip without the need of bag's of holding then?

Kiero
2007-07-12, 03:38 PM
Here's the question: just how strict do you guys (or your DM's) follow the encumbrance rules?


I ignore them, largely, bean-counting isn't my idea of fun. Only becomes an issue when someone is obviously abusing it.

Indon
2007-07-12, 03:41 PM
Ah, so the dragon's hoard is one trip without the need of bag's of holding then?

Dragons have far more treasure than just coins.

Telonius
2007-07-12, 03:51 PM
In games I DM, Handy Haversacks are standard issue equipment to all adventurers, and do not count against WBL. At 2,000 gp, it's not a big enough thing to be game-breaking, and saves a whole bunch of busy-work on the part of the players (less time spent bookkeeping = more time spent having fun). Aside from the Haversack, though, I do keep track of encumbrance. If your 10-STR cleric is wearing adamantine fullplate and carrying a tower shield, we will have issues.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-12, 04:12 PM
Just some suggestions,

* Give treasure in gems, rather than coin.

* Tenser's Floating Disc.

* Throw in an NPC hencman.

* Leomund's Secret Chest.

* Wizard mark all the treasure and have a spell to summoning it to you.

* In-dungeon shops.

* Strength-boosting gear as treasure.

Skjaldbakka
2007-07-12, 04:50 PM
Dragons have far more treasure than just coins.

Which doesn't change the fact that a dragon's hoard (typically) has a very large number of coins.

Foolosophy
2007-07-12, 05:17 PM
after several years of gaming without caring for item weight and encumberance my group decided to start using them by the book. One thing we realised: it really is a balance point, "tank clerics" etc. get considerably weaker and both characters investing in physical skills and characters who can do without heavy armor etc. are getting some more chances to shine.

SilverClawShift
2007-07-12, 06:36 PM
Heh. Our DM considered this a big problem when we were learning how to play. He likes to give us stuff, especially interesting stuff. We like to HAVE interesting stuff.

We ran out of ways to carry our stuff before other problems came about (I'm not even talking magical items here, grappling hooks, poles, collapsable ladders, binding gear, rope, chains, climbing gear, magnifying lenses and such... I like to carry chalk dust, to blanket across random hallways so I can see if anyone came through. Also tends to make people think the area is trapped in some horrible way).

As a group, we toyed with the idea of ignoring, or altering, the encumberance rules, but decided they ultimately seemed fair and realistic. He could have thrown a handysack or a bag of holding or any number of portable items, but he didn't like the idea of second level characters (who are basically guys on the street) having extra dimensional toys.
The party members toyed with the idea of getting a pack animal or two, but we knew that, with us, there was no chance in hell those animals would survive long. And if we DID manage to avoid killing them, the DM would probably off it to watch us scramble.

So the DM comes up with his solution. "Gear of the Packmule". It was a pair of gloves, along with a bunch of straps, nets, cloth slings, and a mouth bit. Was this our DMs way of showing us he wouldn't kill our pack animals?

Heh. No.

The Gear of the Packmule was a 'magical' set that caused the wearer (and you had to be wearing the mouth bit too) to have quadruple strength... but ONLY for carrying capacity and encumberance limits.
It had enough nets and slings and straps that you could balloon it out to the size of a small wagon, and the magic of the item would cause the carrier to handle it as if they had quadruple carrying capacity. It could also be dropped and picked up by the carrier really easily (he usually let it happen 'as combat was starting' before anything major had happened).

So our 18 STR fighter was walking around the countryside with us, carrying a cloth pack 3 times his sive on his shoulders, strapped to his mouth and gloves :smallbiggrin:.

We also thought up the idea of intimidating some group by having him toss the straps around a huge boulder and lifting it up while roaring, but it never actually came up because unpacking the gear just to lift a boulder to scare someone was too much work.

JellyPooga
2007-07-12, 06:49 PM
Encumbrance is vitally important, if you want my opinion.

Not keeping track of how much weight you're lugging around is just being lazy. There's a reason why a good few class abilities don't work when wearing medium or heavy armour or carrying a medium or heavy load...

Not keeping track of how much gear you have on you negates the usefulness of bags or holding, handy haversacks, tensers floating disk and a myriad of other items/spells that are specifically designed to compensate for the vast amounts of wealth that high level adventurers are expected to find/steal.

If I were running a game and found that one of my players was not keeping a close tally on how much stuff and how he was carrying it, then I would be quite displeased. Weight isn't everything..."just how are you carrying that 10' pole?...10' is really quite long you know"

Oh yeah, the gold thing...there's a reason for different denominations you know. If you find copper, you have to deal with carrying it if you want that dosh. There's no way you're getting away with carrying around several thousand GP worth of various different coins without a good reason or being heavily overloaded...even Heroquest (the board game by MB) recognised this.

Tellah
2007-07-12, 06:55 PM
after several years of gaming without caring for item weight and encumberance my group decided to start using them by the book. One thing we realised: it really is a balance point, "tank clerics" etc. get considerably weaker and both characters investing in physical skills and characters who can do without heavy armor etc. are getting some more chances to shine.

Absolutely true. That venerable grey elf wizard with a STR of 2 looks an awful lot less viable when you realize that he can barely carry a backpack, spellbook, spell component pouch and scroll case-- and that at a heavy load. I'd encourage DMs to watch their players' adherence to encumbrance rules, especially if their games present a lot of skill checks and physical challenges, as mine do.

dr.cello
2007-07-12, 07:13 PM
Here's what my groups always end up doing: if you're wearing your armor, it doesn't count. The easiest way to carry a shirt of chain is to actually wear it. The weight distributes itself fairly nicely. And your primary weapons also don't generally count. Everything else, the stuff in the backpack, still counts.

Another suggestion if that seems too lenient is to cut the weight of any armor/weapons worn in half. I personally think it's a silly idea that a bandolier of daggers should encumber you as much as a big book in your backpack. Stuff carried in pockets and on belts, or simply worn, doesn't encumber you nearly as much as something which is just loading up your backpack. There is something to be said for weight distribution. Putting things in pockets seems to almost nullify the weight--I've carried Coke cans (a whole twelve pack), laptops, etc. in large enough pockets and you barely notice the weight.

The Handy Haversack is a useful item for decreasing loads, as well.

Matthew
2007-07-12, 07:28 PM
I have always rather liked the idea of ascribing minimum Strength Ratings for Armour and Weapons, ala Baldur's Gate 2. I have been known to sporadically implement it.

kjones
2007-07-12, 08:02 PM
It can be helpful, for bookkeeping purposes, to issue Encumbrance Audits on your players, in which they go through all their gear and add up the weights to make sure they're still at whatever load they should be at. Prevents abuses, and keeps everything kosher. Plus, it can be helpful for your players to look through their equipment lists every once in a while... how often do you hear, "I forgot I had that!".

horseboy
2007-07-12, 08:12 PM
:sabine:

binding gear, rope, chains,

(and you had to be wearing the mouth bit too)
:sabine:

Just what kind of Roleplaying are you-- never mind.

We have the "encumbrance lesson". So long as you keep it in a reasonable frame, we don't care. The GM will usually once over the list, if the magnitude is unreasonable the offender is taken outside. We then gather up everything they're claiming their character is carrying (or weight equivalent for stuff like trail rations). They then have to do wind sprints carrying all of it. The object lesson is usually enough to get them to scale down to something reasonable.

ndragonsbane
2007-07-12, 09:45 PM
Alright, I've read through these and I've decided to keep doing it the way I am right now...strict adherence.

Also, I got a lot of suggestions saying I should pickup some sort of extra-dimensional loot carrier: believe me, I've tried. Extenuating circumstances make it impossible in almost every campaign I've ever been in with this guy.

As for giving my PC's one, I tend to if they need it; rare is the party I don't give at least a haversack to by 3rd level.

Thanks

Swordguy
2007-07-12, 10:24 PM
I would suggest one thing - that stuff carried inside a backpack counts as say, 75% of it's normal weight for encumbrance purposes. I've found it's a mechanical reason to take backpacks at lower levels, but you're not getting all THAT big a benefit out of it. The downside is that you have to rule what can and can't be carried in a backpack. A potion? Sure. A Greatsword? Hell no. A light mace? Well...now you've got an issue...

Matthew
2007-07-12, 10:30 PM
Hmmn. Light Mace, ehy? I reckon I could fit it in a Large Back Pack. I'd estimate 12-24" length for a Light Mace. :smallbiggrin:

JellyPooga
2007-07-13, 08:00 AM
Remember that not everything carried in your back pack is physically 'inside' your pack...a bedroll is more than likely strapped to the top, weapons can be tied to the sides, etc. It'll count, for almost all intents and purposes, as being in your pack (e.g. when you drop your pack, you drop the stuff tied to it), but it's still not 'inside' it for dimensional purposes (i.e. it's too long or too wide to fit inside).

AtomicKitKat
2007-07-13, 11:53 AM
Oh yeah, the gold thing...there's a reason for different denominations you know. If you find copper, you have to deal with carrying it if you want that dosh. There's no way you're getting away with carrying around several thousand GP worth of various different coins without a good reason or being heavily overloaded...even Heroquest (the board game by MB) recognised this.

So did Sierra's Hero's Quest(later renamed to Quest for Glory because of the above MB game, which came later, I think. Someone forgot to trademark the name.). This sometimes became embarrassingly complicated when you would have a bunch of troll beards, then exchange them for 2 healing potions, whose combined weights would be more than the beards, and then drink said potions, become unencumbered, return the potion flasks to the healer, and then find yourself encumbered all over again.:smallbiggrin:

Lolth
2007-07-13, 11:55 PM
On our chat, Encumberance rules are in place, but we aren't anal about it.

If the Strength 16 fighter in the Breastplate, Shield, and Greatsword has an OK looking equipment load, as a DM I don't go snooping to make sure he's not a half-pound into heavily encumbered.

If the Strength 6 Wizard is carrying the kitchen sink, I'll look closer.

Many of my encounter rewards kinda are done with Encumbrance in mind. "You found a huge chunk of mithril-laden ore! Whee! Probably worth quite a bit when you get it smelted out... Now, how exactly are you getting it home?"

OzymandiasVolt
2007-07-14, 12:09 AM
By tossing it in a bag of holding. Or rolling it out to the cart I'm sure the party brought. Or getting the wizard to teleport it. Or breaking it into smaller pieces and spreading the weight among the party members. It's not THAT hard to deal with a heavy but valuable rock. :smallbiggrin:

Joltz
2007-07-14, 01:37 AM
everyone in our group carries some form of extradimensional storage as soon as we can afford it. When I DM I skim over what people are carrying, but I've never seen anyone carrying something ridiculously over their limits and I'm the one handing out the treasure, so I know if they get something big.

Also, lol about henchmen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50570)

Kiero
2007-07-14, 04:58 AM
Encumbrance is vitally important, if you want my opinion.

Which depends entirely on your play style. I find it totally pointless and un-fun, as I do all tracking and bean-counting. Guess what? I don't do XP either, I prefer just levelling people up every so often. Same goes for wealth.

Yuki Akuma
2007-07-14, 05:40 AM
Which depends entirely on your play style. I find it totally pointless and un-fun, as I do all tracking and bean-counting. Guess what? I don't do XP either, I prefer just levelling people up every so often. Same goes for wealth.

How do you do item crafting, then? Or spells with XP components?

Anyway, did anyone actually ask you about your house rules?