Pathfinder caravan rules

[Calthropstu]

So I am running the Jade Regent, and the caravan rules in it are extremely ummmm...

Bad. The party has had to shift massive amounts of gold into the caravan, the thing can not logically sustain itself. I decided last session that I was going to divide the costs by 10, with the exception of the wagons, because the prices those things are listed at are completely unsustainable.

The players had a different idea. They poured over half their gold value into the caravan, getting a cauldron of plenty and other things for the caravan. They have made it so that the caravan cannot possibly run out of food, and then they dropped 3,000 gold of "loose purchases." After all of that, they want to say they never have to worry about caravan costs again... because they do not want to play "the caravan master party" they want to play adventurers.

I kind of agree with them. but a good portion of the the adventure, especially the next book, is based around the caravan. So what would you guys recommend?

[Psyren]

I know nothing about this AP but I've seen other threads on the Paizo boards discussing the shortcomings of this mechanic, have you tried looking there? "Jade Regent Caravan Rules" should find you several, including some with James Jacobs commentary.

[Calthropstu]

I know nothing about this AP but I've seen other threads on the Paizo boards discussing the shortcomings of this mechanic, have you tried looking there? "Jade Regent Caravan Rules" should find you several, including some with James Jacobs commentary.

Aye, I had looked at some of them. And I ultimately came to a decision. But I post on the playground because the playgrounds elite munchkinry always yields an interesting result. I am wondering what the playground thinks.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why do they need a caravan? What is preventing them from piling stuff into a bag of holding, selling or abandoning whatever doesn't fit, and zipping around on Phantom Steeds?

[Sayt]

The caravan rules are bad. My party just ignored them. ESPECIALLY when the warpriest decided "I step off of the caravan and obsidian floe the hostile villagers which are savaging the caravan.

[Coidzor]

The caravan rules are bad. My party just ignored them. ESPECIALLY when the warpriest decided "I step off of the caravan and obsidian floe the hostile villagers which are savaging the caravan.

I'm morbidly curious now what the party was supposed to do if not defend their property and selves.

[Sayt]

I'm morbidly curious now what the party was supposed to do if not defend their property and selves.

I think technically we were supposed to try and de-escalate the Peaceful Villagers Fearmongered By Evil Elder.

[Fizban]

So, what's the problem? It sounds like they're being charged a bunch of upkeep costs for feeding and fixing the caravan. If those costs are high enough that 6,000 gp is a good trade then yeah they're probably bogus.

[Calthropstu]

Why do they need a caravan? What is preventing them from piling stuff into a bag of holding, selling or abandoning whatever doesn't fit, and zipping around on Phantom Steeds?

There's an artifact with the party that cannot be teleported. It marks one of the NPCs as the heir to the throne of Minkai, and also marks the PCs as legitimate heirs as well. The only way to get the NPC onto the throne is to transport the artifact to the palace in Minkai.

Also, the characters start at 1st level.

[Coidzor]

Are these rules basically them, or are these rules a more cleaned up version of what's in the AP? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/caravans)

If so, if they have the ability to generate food at will, then Consumption is effectively irrelevant to them, because it seems to only have to do with having enough food for the travelers and beasts of burden.

Apparently the consensus (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tra6?Jade-Regent-Caravan-Help) is that if you want to use caravan rules, you're going to have to research a set of houseruled fixes (https://sites.google.com/site/berkeleypathfinderjr/house-rules/caravans/caravan-rules-modified) that you and your group can live with.Or do away with the combat entirely and mostly just have it for travel and transportation rules. (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q0bm?Caravan-rules-how-do-you-guys-feel-what-do)

[Fizban]

Looking over that link. . . wow, those are bad. "Stores" cost the same amount as buying proper trail rations (which are priced at a premium) for the same number of days, except you also pay a bunch of extra overhead based on the "consumption" score of your wagons in addition to feeding the people. Wagons are way more expensive in Pathfinder to begin with, and even though Pathfinder has the exact same repair rule as 3.5 (repair is 1/5 the original price), the repair materials cost 25gp per lot: 1/2 a basic pf wagon's price in order to repair some piddly amount of hp.

It's the worst sort of optional rule: far more complex than tracking standard mechanics and the results are vastly inferior. At least their stronghold rules allowed you to craft at 1/4 cost, if nothing else. The only reason I can see buying into this is if your DM is running standard guards as warrior 1's that have no chance of fighting off even other standard warrior 1's (orcs outclass humans by a landslide and lizardmen and gnolls have extra hit dice just for being born). In that case, converting their combats to a nebulous roll makes them far more effective than they actually are, but 100gp per month is freaking insane. That's what you pay a merc with half a dozen levels to enter a battle of attrition where people are guaranteed to die, not what you pay a warrior 1 to follow a wagon around.

[Extra Anchovies]

There's an artifact with the party that cannot be teleported. It marks one of the NPCs as the heir to the throne of Minkai, and also marks the PCs as legitimate heirs as well. The only way to get the NPC onto the throne is to transport the artifact to the palace in Minkai.

I'm guessing that what they're transporting is the Amatatsu Seal in the Warding Box, yeah? There's restrictions on teleportation and interplanar travel, but the question of "why not travel light and use Phantom Steeds?" remains.