[Spheres of Power] The Creation Sphere Handbook Open Playtest

[Desril]

Greetings! At this point I suspect most everyone here has at least heard of Drop Dead Studio's (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/) Spheres of Power (http://paizo.com/products/btpy96pr?Spheres-of-Power) system and that expansion handbooks for each of the individual Spheres are being created, and I've had the honor of working on the Creation Sphere Handbook (Working Title, names are hard). However, one neophyte writer working with just the helpful suggestions from other handbook authors isn't as effective an editing tool as crowd-sourcing, so in an effort to make sure the book is perfect before it's sent to print, I present to you an early look into the Creation Sphere Handbook, use it as you see fit, break games, make your GMs and players cry with awkwardly worded rules text, realize there's a missing size limit somewhere and create a new moon, or just point out that one of the abilities uses a comma when it needed a semi-colon, any feedback is helpful, and even if you don't see anything wrong to call out then have fun with it!

The Creation Sphere Handbook Playtest (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit?usp=sharing)

Feel free to leave your comments on the google doc itself, here, or both. Content, rules mistakes, rules interaction, copy editing, and any other pertinent errors or issues are fair game. All replies will be read and considered, even if I don't respond to each in detail.

[stack]

I will finally be able to make a master of anvils.:smallbiggrin:

[digiman619]

I was thinking Manifester for the name, but that word 's kinda taken...

EDIT; Oh! How about Fabricator's Handbook?

[Desril]

I was thinking Manifester for the name, but that word 's kinda taken...

EDIT; Oh! How about Fabricator's Handbook?

Oh, that might work. I'll toss that onto the list of possibilities.

[SergharCromwell]

I see the term "cubic feet" being used a lot. Is that supposed to be 5-foot cubes?

[khadgar567]

posting so I can keep the track of treat

[Desril]

I see the term "cubic feet" being used a lot. Is that supposed to be 5-foot cubes?

The ones that are 5 cubic feet are supposed to fill a 5-foot cube. Honestly talking about volume gets very confusing, especially because 90% of the game deals with 2 dimensions. It's a real possibility that I messed up the wording somewhere.

[SergharCromwell]

Acidic Creation, for example, says it treats "3 cubic feet" as a small object. One 5-foot cube would be 125 cubic feet, meaning you'd need to be CL 42 to make even a single cube of liquid.

[khadgar567]

is there a suplementery talent for making create food and liquid tasty vecouse ı want to make incanter who feeds party with 5 star meals via magic and corect me if I am wrong there is a permenet creation talent in creation sphere right if not can you please make it.

[Desril]

Acidic Creation, for example, says it treats "3 cubic feet" as a small object. One 5-foot cube would be 125 cubic feet, meaning you'd need to be CL 42 to make even a single cube of liquid.

OK, so my gut was right when I tried to initially write Mass Liquid Generation as 125 cubic feet. Could you do me a favor and comment on that talent so I can remember to adjust it later? (I was intending to make some changes today but scheduling issues came up and I may be busy)

The 3 cubic feet options are correct since they match the base water option. It's the 5-cubic feet ones that I need to adjust to say 5-ft cubes/125 cubic feet.

[Desril]

is there a suplementery talent for making create food and liquid tasty vecouse ı want to make incanter who feeds party with 5 star meals via magic and corect me if I am wrong there is a permenet creation talent in creation sphere right if not can you please make it.

There is, the Create Food option lets you use Profession (Cook) or similar to make the food taste better (though not without spending a spellpoint, if you don't it's just bland).

Also I'm debating whether or not to combine Create Food and Mead Mastery or just buff the latter so stay tuned for that.

[khadgar567]

There is, the Create Food option lets you use Profession (Cook) or similar to make the food taste better (though not without spending a spellpoint, if you don't it's just bland).

Also I'm debating whether or not to combine Create Food and Mead Mastery or just buff the latter so stay tuned for that.
instead of mead mastry just make whole talent create liquid then put table for diffrent dcs like dc10 for water simple liquids, dc 15 for teas semi comlex stuff, dc 20 for mead like complex brews( may require time sphere for aging the liquid)and dc 25+ to truely complex thing like cola in medival world or with check potions it self

[Flesh_Engine]

Agreed, the mead & water talents aren't very attractive individually but when rolled into one talent that scales do make it more attractive.

I'd like to see the Object of Force talent specify if the creator can specify opaqueness for the effect.

Also, the Floating Creation talent could use some extra wording regarding it's combination with an Instantaneous Create and cover the case for Objects of Force having no weight.
This talent also heralds the advent of mechanical power generation and locomotion, as long as the creator is present. Would be nice if one could just set a pattern for the Floating Creation to follow (ie, move up 3 rounds, down 3 rounds, repeat).

I'd review the Gaseous Generation talent, as is, it is rather lackluster bordering useless, being 15th level, making a cloud that deals 2d6 damage is laughable. Even moreso if you later on read the (accurate) sidebar regarding pc power level regarding infinite wealth on the Create Costly material talent.

Being able to transmute air into stone seems no different from actually displacing said air with stone you simply created instead. Vice versa, you could functionally replace the stone with air by simply using Alter to Destroy the stone instead. Trying to trap creatures by turning the air into stone seems to already be covered by the basic Create, inhibiting their movement and suffocation takes so exceedingly long to do anything that it is largely a none factor.

Honestly I expected something akin to being able to make fog clouds, solid fogs, acid fogs or something along those likes.

Of course, I could have missed the point entirely, in which case am curious.

All for now...

[khadgar567]

Agreed, the mead & water talents aren't very attractive individually but when rolled into one talent that scales do make it more attractive.

I'd like to see the Object of Force talent specify if the creator can specify opaqueness for the effect.

Also, the Floating Creation talent could use some extra wording regarding it's combination with an Instantaneous Create and cover the case for Objects of Force having no weight.
This talent also heralds the advent of mechanical power generation and locomotion, as long as the creator is present. Would be nice if one could just set a pattern for the Floating Creation to follow (ie, move up 3 rounds, down 3 rounds, repeat).

I'd review the Gaseous Generation talent, as is, it is rather lackluster bordering useless, being 15th level, making a cloud that deals 2d6 damage is laughable. Even moreso if you later on read the (accurate) sidebar regarding pc power level regarding infinite wealth on the Create Costly material talent.

Being able to transmute air into stone seems no different from actually displacing said air with stone you simply created instead. Vice versa, you could functionally replace the stone with air by simply using Alter to Destroy the stone instead. Trying to trap creatures by turning the air into stone seems to already be covered by the basic Create, inhibiting their movement and suffocation takes so exceedingly long to do anything that it is largely a none factor.

Honestly I expected something akin to being able to make fog clouds, solid fogs, acid fogs or something along those likes.

Of course, I could have missed the point entirely, in which case am curious.

All for now...
well only way i thing create air to be useful is making air blather so you can stay under water longer and thanks for vote of agreement on liquid talent

[khadgar567]

Just out of curiosity can object of force talent use able as armor. If yes then whats the ac of it

[stack]

Just out of curiosity can object of force talent use able as armor. If yes then whats the ac of it

Equal to whatever is normal for the type of armor I assume. A chain shirt of force has the same coverage as one of steel.

[khadgar567]

Equal to whatever is normal for the type of armor I assume. A chain shirt of force has the same coverage as one of steel.
Thanks stack with protection sphere this makes first bikini armor on apearane full armor on paper situation

[Desril]

Agreed, the mead & water talents aren't very attractive individually but when rolled into one talent that scales do make it more attractive.

I'd like to see the Object of Force talent specify if the creator can specify opaqueness for the effect.

Also, the Floating Creation talent could use some extra wording regarding it's combination with an Instantaneous Create and cover the case for Objects of Force having no weight.
This talent also heralds the advent of mechanical power generation and locomotion, as long as the creator is present. Would be nice if one could just set a pattern for the Floating Creation to follow (ie, move up 3 rounds, down 3 rounds, repeat).

I'd review the Gaseous Generation talent, as is, it is rather lackluster bordering useless, being 15th level, making a cloud that deals 2d6 damage is laughable. Even moreso if you later on read the (accurate) sidebar regarding pc power level regarding infinite wealth on the Create Costly material talent.

Being able to transmute air into stone seems no different from actually displacing said air with stone you simply created instead. Vice versa, you could functionally replace the stone with air by simply using Alter to Destroy the stone instead. Trying to trap creatures by turning the air into stone seems to already be covered by the basic Create, inhibiting their movement and suffocation takes so exceedingly long to do anything that it is largely a none factor.

Honestly I expected something akin to being able to make fog clouds, solid fogs, acid fogs or something along those likes.

Of course, I could have missed the point entirely, in which case am curious.

All for now...


There we go, sorry I'm a bit late, the weekend and Monday were...hectic.

You make a good point about Object of Force and I've done as you requested. They're translucent by default but you can make them opaque or invisible with the transparency talent at no cost.

Getting a floating creation to follow persistent commands is more Enhancement's realm, but I might be able to add a 'Dancing Creation' feat later on. I'll keep that in mind.

Gaseous Generation is in the odd situation of needing to not be too powerful while still allowing for options. I do agree that it's pretty lackluster mechanically however and am open to suggestions, and I'm kind of a moron for not thinking about the Fog spells. I'll try and figure out where to add those in or clarify that they're options and get that updated. That said, preventing 'air to stone' is mostly a case of trying to avoid "I fill the dragon's mouth with antifreeze" and atom splitting shenanigans. Breaking wealth guidelines is one thing but I have to try and limit GM headaches as best I can for some shenanigans.

[Mithril Leaf]

Just wanted to say I adore the Knight of Willpower, but have one consideration:
EDIT:Nevermind.


Also Material Body with Object of Force is almost exactly just a straight up better version of the Obstruction Talent from Protection. I like the general idea of it, but that maybe isn't something you want to do?

[Desril]

Just wanted to say I adore the Knight of Willpower, but have one consideration:
EDIT:Nevermind.


Also Material Body with Object of Force is almost exactly just a straight up better version of the Obstruction Talent from Protection. I like the general idea of it, but that maybe isn't something you want to do?

Oh, you bring up a good point, I didn't actually consider the combination of those two. I think I might just add a call out in Material Body that doesn't let you use Force for the material.

[Mathias1313]

So I have a little bit of feedback for ya. Hope any of it helps. :)



-Barrier Knight
-Barrier Mastery does not seem very good.So at 5th lvl I get to exchange an Immediate action and a spell point to give someone a +2 to ac? Not worth a spell point in my opinion. At 10th a spell point to give +4 is kinda ok. Full cover at 15th is good though
I kinda think this would be cooler if the immediate action created a physical barrier that absorbed the damage done depending on the material you use as well as the Cover. Say absorbs an amount of damage equal to the HP of the material you use? That would be worth a spell point + immediate action
-Unconsious Shielding I always loved this type of ability. Instead og giving a single +1 if you already have wis to Ac, how about a +1 per 5 lvl in barrier knight? Gives you a little something extra for staying in the class longer?


-Lingchi Warrior
-Armory Arena is a very cool and interesting ability. Kudos to you. :)
-Arsenal Tricks:
-Absolute Control - Why the hell is this lvl 12? The first thing I thought of when reading the Arena ability was that I thought it odd that anyone could just pick and choose what they got. Then I see this and I am like, oh cool... a trick seems worth it to do this... then I saw lvl 12. To me this makes no sense. I get making me spend a trick for it but if I wasnt to take it, no reason I cant at low lvl.
-Arena Patrol - So this works pretty much like Combat patrol right? except that it covers the whole area of the Arena?
-Dancing Arena - Very cool but is there a reason why the damage die of the Arena got bigger? Not that I am complaining, just asking.

-Incanter Specialization
-Master of Creation. Not sure wht the 1 less spell pint is given at 3rd and the +1 CL is at 8th. They seem like they should be switched?
-Sword Birth, is this suppose to be Mystic Combat? ISnt that for Mageknights? Shouldnt you get Arsenal tricks for this?

Basic Talents:
I agree with most people on combining some of the talents. Water Well, Mead mastery and create food, in my mind, should just all be combined.

Other than what I have mentioned above, good job man. This was my least favorite sphere and now I enjoy it quite a bit. :)

[Mithril Leaf]

-Incanter Specialization
-Master of Creation. Not sure wht the 1 less spell pint is given at 3rd and the +1 CL is at 8th. They seem like they should be switched?

I agree with the sentiment expressed within. maybe move the Spell Point Reduction to 8, then drop the level 5 ability to level 3 and the current level 8 ability to level 5?

Follow up, can I Create fancy guns with Exquisite Detail? I kind of love the idea of a character who's goal is to advance the technology level of the setting through creation of nearly impossible objects.

Thirdly, as written Wall Mastery applies fully to Object of Force walls, which I don't think you want.

[Troacctid]

Instead of saying "cubic feet," just say "fits within a 5-foot cube." It's what 5th Edition does and it's much more intuitive.

[Mithril Leaf]

So I've recently read through the Ships of Skybourne book, which I absolutely adore and I have a ton of questions about using magic to create an airship:
1. When anchoring an object to another object, it says to use the Break DC of the weaker object. How does that work when I want to anchor the left half of a larger object to the right half of that object?
2. Within the same line of reasoning, can I use a number of separate Fabrications to create a single larger object?
3. I really want to make a super cool force airship, pretty please can that be an option?
4. Since it has no weight, shouldn't it probably do that Mithril/Darkwood thing where it counts as a lighter class than it actually is?
5. Related to airships, it seems like one should probably half the weight when calculating an airship's mass when using raw Force, much like using Darkwood, yes?
6. Exquisite talent feels a bit weak, would it be unreasonable to allow you to apply it when using Fabricate, maybe at reduced strength?
7. When using the Change Material talent to turn something into Force, you use the normal statistics for your Objects of Force regarding hardness and HP, correct?
8. At level 5 does Gaseous Generation let you make Helium?

Thank you so much, I love the Creation sphere.

[Desril]

So, I think my hard drive is dead, which means it will likely be a few days before I can get my computer running again which means responses here and on the document will be postponed for the time being.

I'll get responses up once I get my computer running!

OK, computer running again, but I'm not home today. Further corrections edits and responses on the document resume Sunday.

[JerichoPenumbra]

First off, I am thrilled that the Creation Sphere is being worked on as it is one of my favorites.

Barrier Knight
This seems to straddle the line between the Creation and Protection Spheres and honestly seems like it would be slightly more appropriate in the eventual Protection sphere expansion since it focus more on "force field" barriers rather than "wall" barriers.

Lingchi Warrior
The Material Armory arsenal trick is a combination of the Improved Materials and Greater Materials tricks from the SoP Core except you get everything sooner then you would by taking the latter two.

I like the flavor of the Dancing Armory trick but it seems to be a watered down version of the Soaring Blade Archetype from the Telekinetic's handbook. I think that following with the theme, some more tricks that add buff/debuff effects like giving enemies a penalty to armor class, or adding low grade bleed or poison effect to the "zone of pain".

The only other gripe that I have is that Object of Force talent is similar to the Kinetic Creation feat from the Telekinetic's handbook, except it is literally better in almost every way and doesn't have the 7th level prerequisite. I think it's a cool effect, but it seems a little much that it completely outshines some of the previous work in the expanded SoP line.

Otherwise, everything look brilliant. Two ideas that I think would be interesting if they seem viable would be an armorist that forgoes the bound equipment and in turn gets greater flexibility/power from summoning or forging new equipment. For the other, an archetype that specializes in the creation of mundane traps, like maybe getting the instant burial feat or exquisite detail for free, or a talent for putting semi complex mechanical traps (like an arrow trap or guillotine triggered via a pressure plate) into material without being that time consuming.

[Mithril Leaf]

Two additional things to comment on here.

First is that Dwarf literally has no Alternative Racial Traits. Every other core race has at least one. This seems like it could be and ideal book for one. Maybe Greed and Stonecunning for Creation Sphere.

Second is that I really desperately want to make contact and injury poisons. Inhaled and Ingested are thus far covered, but it seems like the only option for creating functional combat poisons is through creating the reagents (either through Create Materials or Alchemic Mastery) and then using Fabricate on them.

EDIT: Third is could one be persuaded to let you make intelligent oozes that possess maybe half or a quarter of your CL in Hit Dice? Also can I make permanent Oozes with Permanent Creation? Please say yes, I want adorable pet slimes.

[Desril]

Just thought I should say that this isn't dead! Things got a little chaotic on my end for a while there but I've been adding and editing the handbook slowly over the last couple weeks again and I didn't realize there were posts on this thread that I hadn't gotten around to replying to before I went dark for a bit!


First off, I am thrilled that the Creation Sphere is being worked on as it is one of my favorites.

Barrier Knight
This seems to straddle the line between the Creation and Protection Spheres and honestly seems like it would be slightly more appropriate in the eventual Protection sphere expansion since it focus more on "force field" barriers rather than "wall" barriers.

Lingchi Warrior
The Material Armory arsenal trick is a combination of the Improved Materials and Greater Materials tricks from the SoP Core except you get everything sooner then you would by taking the latter two.

I like the flavor of the Dancing Armory trick but it seems to be a watered down version of the Soaring Blade Archetype from the Telekinetic's handbook. I think that following with the theme, some more tricks that add buff/debuff effects like giving enemies a penalty to armor class, or adding low grade bleed or poison effect to the "zone of pain".

The only other gripe that I have is that Object of Force talent is similar to the Kinetic Creation feat from the Telekinetic's handbook, except it is literally better in almost every way and doesn't have the 7th level prerequisite. I think it's a cool effect, but it seems a little much that it completely outshines some of the previous work in the expanded SoP line.

Otherwise, everything look brilliant. Two ideas that I think would be interesting if they seem viable would be an armorist that forgoes the bound equipment and in turn gets greater flexibility/power from summoning or forging new equipment. For the other, an archetype that specializes in the creation of mundane traps, like maybe getting the instant burial feat or exquisite detail for free, or a talent for putting semi complex mechanical traps (like an arrow trap or guillotine triggered via a pressure plate) into material without being that time consuming.


You're not wrong that Barrier Knight is a bit of a Creation/Protection hybrid, I think I'll mess with the fluff a little soon to make that lean a little more toward Creation.

As for Lingchi Warrior;
That's intentional, it's just limited to the archetype rather than available to any armorist.

I like the idea but I'm not sure how I'll have to think on how I could implement it without it getting too powerful, but I'm open to suggestions.

I think I missed that talent, I'll look at the TK handbook again and see what I can do.

There's not much I can do with that first one, I'm actually pretty close to the recommended size limit, I don't think I can squeeze another full archetype in but the latter is a good idea. I might be able to work something like that in!


Two additional things to comment on here.

First is that Dwarf literally has no Alternative Racial Traits. Every other core race has at least one. This seems like it could be and ideal book for one. Maybe Greed and Stonecunning for Creation Sphere.

Second is that I really desperately want to make contact and injury poisons. Inhaled and Ingested are thus far covered, but it seems like the only option for creating functional combat poisons is through creating the reagents (either through Create Materials or Alchemic Mastery) and then using Fabricate on them.

EDIT: Third is could one be persuaded to let you make intelligent oozes that possess maybe half or a quarter of your CL in Hit Dice? Also can I make permanent Oozes with Permanent Creation? Please say yes, I want adorable pet slimes.


Personal bias showing, dwarves suck, never managed to play with one that wasn't problematic! :smalltongue: But I'll see about adding something in for them later.

Hm, poisons could probably be expanded on, I'll see what I can do.

Intelligence is really the domain of Enhancement more than Creation, but I could add a line that allows it to affected by the Bestow Life advanced talent easily enough.

[LordOfCain]

Personal bias showing, dwarves suck, never managed to play with one that wasn't problematic!

I mean... I was going to buy the handbook.... Joking aside, was it the players or the roleplaying of dwarves? I just can't see how dwarves could inherently be problematic.

[Desril]

I mean... I was going to buy the handbook.... Joking aside, was it the players or the roleplaying of dwarves? I just can't see how dwarves could inherently be problematic.

The players in question, the fact that they were dwarves was merely coincidental, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the species. Anyway, as mentioned, I'll add something in there for 'em.

[stack]

The players in question, the fact that they were dwarves was merely coincidental, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth for the species. Anyway, as mentioned, I'll add something in there for 'em.

Hey now, I do read this thread!:smalltongue:

[Mithril Leaf]

You're not wrong that Barrier Knight is a bit of a Creation/Protection hybrid, I think I'll mess with the fluff a little soon to make that lean a little more toward Creation.

Personal bias showing, dwarves suck, never managed to play with one that wasn't problematic! :smalltongue: But I'll see about adding something in for them later.

Hm, poisons could probably be expanded on, I'll see what I can do.

Intelligence is really the domain of Enhancement more than Creation, but I could add a line that allows it to affected by the Bestow Life advanced talent easily enough.

Maybe let them qualify for Advanced Talents and Feats based on conjuration as if their CL were a bit higher? I think that's an underused ability in general, plenty of caster level boosts but only Focus Spheres get early qualification.

I understand your hatred of a specific race, but for me it's elves and I love dwarves. Dwarves are a beautiful industrious people, while elves sit in their dirty tree hovels and complain about you cutting down trees. Bunch of pansies.

Poison is one of my favorite things about magical conjuration personally, because they're basically unusable otherwise. If they're free early they are awesome for the time before everything becomes poison immune.

For the ability to create intelligent oozes, I mainly want to be able to create these super adorable little scamps (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/apallie/). So cute!

[Desril]

Hey now, I do read this thread!:smalltongue:

You're not the first problematic dwarf, nor do I expect you to be the last.

Mithral, in regards to your last post, I'll get to it at some point next week, hopefully sooner. Because of course the day I respond to this thread my block loses power and ****s up my computer, I'm taking it into the shop tomorrow and I'm going to be incredibly irritated if it can't be fixed by Monday.

[Saffron-sama]

When creating what size is a 5 foot cube?
If using walls as the example, ift would be 60 small objects to get a 10 by 10 by 5 rectangle with wall master 30 would be necessary.

[khadgar567]

When creating what size is a 5 foot cube?
If using walls as the example, ift would be 60 small objects to get a 10 by 10 by 5 rectangle with wall master 30 would be necessary.
probably a medium object since lowest wall creating spell creates half of the square as barrier so YMMW.

[Saffron-sama]

@Desril
Hardlight feat in the light hand book made the knight of willpower first ability a little confusing. Since it has nothing to do with the hardlight material which the Hardlight feat allows you to make.

Edit
Aasimar's alternate racial trait should be changed to include an extra talent or have a better exra bit. It's ability is actually detrimental to a creation character as they loose a racial trait or magic talent to gain a very weak power.

[Saffron-sama]

Some abuse I have noticed is the spontaneous creation of permanent magic arms and armor with Create Materials & Enhanced Creation. It also being a Free action I can spontaneously create a +6 flaming, corrosive, frost and shock weapon which does extra damage each based on my caster level, I can also make it add bleed damage and make it a keen weapon.
Armor is not as bad since there is not many good enhancig abilities for them besides lighten which object of force does just fine for.

[mrguymiah]

[Preface: my apologies if this counts as necroposting, but the author of the handbook has restarted work on the book and I wanted to give some input.]

I would like to suggest an addendum to "Create Materials", like with Classic Substances. Considering Fabricate also exists, there is no rule against using Creation to create armor, weapons, etc in a permanent fashion. It merely becomes a tax to have a different talent and some extra time. My suggestion is to either allow craft-check creation at a certain Cl or to allow it if you also have Fabricate. At least to me, it doesn't make sense to have the restriction there as a talent tax, especially when there are other taxes already.

[Desril]

[Preface: my apologies if this counts as necroposting, but the author of the handbook has restarted work on the book and I wanted to give some input.]

I would like to suggest an addendum to "Create Materials", like with Classic Substances. Considering Fabricate also exists, there is no rule against using Creation to create armor, weapons, etc in a permanent fashion. It merely becomes a tax to have a different talent and some extra time. My suggestion is to either allow craft-check creation at a certain Cl or to allow it if you also have Fabricate. At least to me, it doesn't make sense to have the restriction there as a talent tax, especially when there are other taxes already.

Heh, I wouldn't say "restarted" it was just an annoying conflux of various things for the first half of the year that limited my ability to actually get work done. I never stopped writing I was just greatly delayed!

In any case, I don't thing the change is going to happen. Not that I don't think you have a point, but rather because it would obsolete the Fabricate advanced talent, rather than open new options for it.

[mrguymiah]

Heh, I wouldn't say "restarted" it was just an annoying conflux of various things for the first half of the year that limited my ability to actually get work done. I never stopped writing I was just greatly delayed!

In any case, I don't thing the change is going to happen. Not that I don't think you have a point, but rather because it would obsolete the Fabricate advanced talent, rather than open new options for it.

A fair point. What if the two were rebalanced a smidgeon? Fabricate gets addended to allow create with it and Create Materials let's you create one size category larger per CL? (Perhaps some extra spell point usage in one of these) Akin to how Telekinesis has Powerful TK make it to where you _can_ lift more but be able to do less with it.

It'd give Create Materials the purpose of generating large quantities with Fabricate allowing more detailed work (which it already is intended to do).

I'm more than willing to brainstorm additional expansion on the situation.

It just seems odd to me that the base ability lets you create detailed items from nothing, but the advanced ones put weird restrictions on doing so. This is compounded by the fact that both of the advanced talents require Forge. If both are just advanced subsets of the same basic ability, it doesn't make sense to me for their division.

[Desril]

A fair point. What if the two were rebalanced a smidgeon? Fabricate gets addended to allow create with it and Create Materials let's you create one size category larger per CL? (Perhaps some extra spell point usage in one of these) Akin to how Telekinesis has Powerful TK make it to where you _can_ lift more but be able to do less with it.

It'd give Create Materials the purpose of generating large quantities with Fabricate allowing more detailed work (which it already is intended to do).

I'm more than willing to brainstorm additional expansion on the situation.

It just seems odd to me that the base ability lets you create detailed items from nothing, but the advanced ones put weird restrictions on doing so. This is compounded by the fact that both of the advanced talents require Forge. If both are just advanced subsets of the same basic ability, it doesn't make sense to me for their division.

Hm, I think I have a solution to this; I'll just add a clause to Create Materials stating that if you have Fabricate, you can use it as part of the same action. I'll make that adjustment when I do a few other revisions which I'm intending to do tomorrow.

[khadgar567]

Updated size table would be nice but instead of chairs and tables can you use swords and cannons as measurements along with old ones

[Desril]

Updated size table would be nice but instead of chairs and tables can you use swords and cannons as measurements along with old ones

That's actually not a bad idea. Not everyone actually knows how such items are classified, it's simple but having an easily referred to chart is a good idea.

[khadgar567]

That's actually not a bad idea. Not everyone actually knows how such items are classified, it's simple but having an easily referred to chart is a good idea.
And makes lot of headache gone by simply know how many swords thrown when some one goes archer emiya on party my acidental math shows higher fire rate then browning machine gun with whoopin 2125 swords in 6 seconds which highest fire rate of browing is 600 bullets in 6 seconds so hard numbers would be nice to know how much damage bigger creation realy gives to party

[mrguymiah]

That's actually not a bad idea. Not everyone actually knows how such items are classified, it's simple but having an easily referred to chart is a good idea.

I certainly agree. It might be worthwile to restate the Paizo rule that; "Light weapons are two sizes smaller than the creature they're intended for, one-handed is one smaller, and two handed are equal." On top of that, as was brought up in the AMA thread, armor is of particular confusion, since there is no Paizo ruling. To summarize the suggestions from that discussion for you;


All armors are equal to their creature's size
They scale the same way as weapons, with light being two sizes smaller
they scale similarly to weapons, with light being one smaller and the other two being equal

[Mithril Leaf]

Hey, so does anything allow you to actually create a liquid that isn't inherently water, poisonous, or for consumption? Things like oil, mud, and mercury all seem to be unable to created at room temperatures.

Speaking of which, is there actually any limit to the temperatures at which you can create materials? I've always just sort of assumed room, but it doesn't seem to say anywhere. Maybe between 0 and 110 degrees Fahrenheit? Those are the limits of the fourth severity weather effects.

[khadgar567]

Hey, so does anything allow you to actually create a liquid that isn't inherently water, poisonous, or for consumption? Things like oil, mud, and mercury all seem to be unable to created at room temperatures.

Speaking of which, is there actually any limit to the temperatures at which you can create materials? I've always just sort of assumed room, but it doesn't seem to say anywhere. Maybe between 0 and 110 degrees Fahrenheit? Those are the limits of the fourth severity weather effects.
good question know i need to add fire damage to my rain of swords build

[Mithril Leaf]

Still no option to allow the Dwarf to trade Greed and Stonecunning for Basic Magical Training in Creation? Perhaps with Material Focus on Iron or Stone, allowing them to purchase Classic Expanded Materials to unlock everything else as normal (seeing as it normally doesn't give a talent).

[Drrakerr]

About the construct creator feat, it explicitly gives the ability to create persistent animated objects, but doesn't require the animate object talent from the enhancement sphere. Is there any particular reason for that?

[A.J.Gibson]

About the construct creator feat, it explicitly gives the ability to create persistent animated objects, but doesn't require the animate object talent from the enhancement sphere. Is there any particular reason for that?

I can't speak for this specific feat, but I can say that SoP in general avoids prerequisites unless the feat wouldn't make sense without them. 3rd Edition loved weird prerequisites (like 13 Int for combat expertise) and often used them to enforce certain character builds. The fact that enhancement can do something doesn't mean it owns the exclusive rights to the ability.

[Desril]

I can't speak for this specific feat, but I can say that SoP in general avoids prerequisites unless the feat wouldn't make sense without them. 3rd Edition loved weird prerequisites (like 13 Int for combat expertise) and often used them to enforce certain character builds. The fact that enhancement can do something doesn't mean it owns the exclusive rights to the ability.

I actually added the Animate Objects requirement to it. The reason it wasn't there was because that particular feat saw several reworks, the initial version being more purely construct focused, though I suppose I could be convinced to remove it once again.

[digiman619]

Now that Spheres of Might is out and the Champions of the SPheres is apparantly running out of wordcount, any chance to get a Creation based Blacksmith archetype?

[EldritchWeaver]

Now that Spheres of Might is out and the Champions of the SPheres is apparantly running out of wordcount, any chance to get a Creation based Blacksmith archetype?

Why do you believe that Creation hasn't the same problem?

[khadgar567]

So spheres of power expanded volume 2 is on the horizon since every sphere gonna nerd to get few more talents to balance them selfs

[A.J.Gibson]

So spheres of power expanded volume 2 is on the horizon since every sphere gonna nerd to get few more talents to balance them selfs

News to me? And I'm a writer.

[khadgar567]

News to me? And I'm a writer.
lets cut to the chase shall we until some one brew unlimited blade works for creation and time accel for time sphere we can go lot more volumes for the expansion books and creation can use a second book to expend much material for possible?

[meemaas]

lets cut to the chase shall we until some one brew unlimited blade works for creation and time accel for time sphere we can go lot more volumes for the expansion books and creation can use a second book to expend much material for possible?

Honestly. You're starting to get annoying with this. The Creation book pretty much already has Unlimited Blade Works as an Armorist archetype. And the authors are not required to create your favorite anime techniques in their various books. So please stop demanding it from them.

[AlienFromBeyond]

lets cut to the chase shall we until some one brew unlimited blade works for creation
But that's exactly what the Lingchi Warrior does!

And DDS is under ZERO obligation to make anything for you. Though considering the existence of the new Destruction sphere Apocrypha, we may end up seeing more of these tiny 10 or so talent "books" for various spheres.

[digiman619]

Though considering the existence of the new Destruction sphere Apocrypha, we may end up seeing more of these tiny 10 or so talent "books" for various spheres.
Wait, what? A secondary Destruction sphere? For those like I who missed this, care to explain?

[AlienFromBeyond]

Wait, what? A secondary Destruction sphere? For those like I who missed this, care to explain?
It's like I said, a new, very small additional book for Destruction.

...You didn't think it was a new sphere named Apocrypha did you?

Look here. (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/224356/Spheres-Apocrypha-Destruction-Talents)

[digiman619]

It's like I said, a new, very small additional book for Destruction.

...You didn't think it was a new sphere named Apocrypha did you?

Look here. (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/224356/Spheres-Apocrypha-Destruction-Talents)

*mutteres nervously* Of course I didn't. I mean, that- that would be dumb, right? I was just making sure that no one else made such a boneheaded mistake that did not myself make.