Help with a Campaign Idea

[Reaver25]

So, recently, I discovered that I love the idea of a cosmic good vs. evil type of campaign. I do have a few problems, though. I don't really know in which direction to point the campaign or what the big overall "storyline" is. I just don't really know. I will say that I definitely want to include these things:

- In this world, magic will be feared and even looked at as an influence of demons/devils. Dragons, regardless of their alignment/color are considered evil by *most* humans, and so in that respect, Sorcerers are considered spawns of demons/devils/dragons, all of which are evil to *most* humans.
- Essentially, the "world" is set in a time of strife. There is a large empire ruled by a king which spans most of the land on one landmass. The Church (still unsure of which gods to use for this game) advises the King and is the main culprit for spreading ideas about magic being evil. Of course, Divine Magic doesn't count. Not everyone in the Church will agree with this idea, so perhaps there might be a Schism of sorts.
- I would love for one of the PC's to be a Paladin, I love the idea of a Paladin in the middle of this conflict between good and evil.
- I think the main BBEG will be an archfiend of some kind or another. Not sure who or in what way, so I guess the motivation for said BBEG is unknown at the moment.

I know this is a lot, but I really value the Playgrounders and the opinions presented in here. Note that we will be playing 5e. Any ideas whatsoever, from what smaller conflicts could be to how the final battle should go and everything in between will be greatly appreciated. :D

[Fuzzy Logic]

What if the archfiend turned out to be the pope of the church? He's been working for centuries as the various different church leaders to spread the anti-magic sentiment to divide and weaken the mortal races

[RumoCrytuf]

What if the archfiend turned out to be the pope of the church? He's been working for centuries as the various different church leaders to spread the anti-magic sentiment to divide and weaken the mortal races

THAT HAS GOT TO BE THE GREATEST PLOT TWIST I HAVE EVER SEEN!!! Make sure his name is Francis :P

[Reaver25]

I might do something like that, but I don't want it to be too cliché or easy to see coming, if that makes sense. I really want my PCs to be surprised. :D

[Mongobear]

Your initial list of desires really sounds like a setting reminiscent of the early Dragon Age games, like almost spot on with exception of a few class names. (Paladin = Templar, Gods = Chantry/The Maker)

I myself have tried a similar setting, pretty much Dragon Age: Origins but with rewritten events from the game to change the story, but it mostly flopped because a lot of the new story elements could be seen a mile away, because my players really liked Dragon Age, and sort of knew what I was doing before I did it.

[Arcangel4774]

When I think cosmic good vs evil I think Final Fantasy Dissidia. Goddes of harmony, Cosmos, gathers heroes while God of discord, Chaos, gathers villians to fight as champions. Warrior of Light is as paladin as it gets. If they've been summoned as champions of good, or even one of them has, it's an easy ways to start a quest without having to explain why they're there.

[Reaver25]

Your initial list of desires really sounds like a setting reminiscent of the early Dragon Age games, like almost spot on with exception of a few class names. (Paladin = Templar, Gods = Chantry/The Maker)

I myself have tried a similar setting, pretty much Dragon Age: Origins but with rewritten events from the game to change the story, but it mostly flopped because a lot of the new story elements could be seen a mile away, because my players really liked Dragon Age, and sort of knew what I was doing before I did it.

I think I internally knew this because I have played those games and I really like them. Additionally, when I think of 'Old Europe' I think of people who were afraid of "witches" and people who were "magical." So it's a bit of both, to me. I appreciate all of the ideas so far. What are some good plot points, twists, ideas that you guys have? Any bad guys or BBEG specific ideas? What about NPCs they meet along the way? This is where I really get lost.

[Mongobear]

*snip*

What are some good plot points, twists, ideas that you guys have? Any bad guys or BBEG specific ideas? What about NPCs they meet along the way? This is where I really get lost.

Well, as mentioned before, a highly ranked benevolent figure like an Arch-Bishop, Prince/Duke, Governor, etc who is actually the BBEG or a loyal minion is a good trope to follow. A bit cliche, but if you can draw out the reveal until months and months of play and having the PCs fully trust him before the reveal can lead to quite a reaction from your group.

Something I have always wanted to do, was combine elements from a Sword & Sorcery setting with something like Warhammer 40k, basically, the game starts off normal/D&D-esque, then somewhere around the end of the first act, a massive Space Ship crashes somewhere in the land the PCs are and it has Space Marines, which in-turn draws attention of either the Chaos Gods or Orks or any of the other obviously evil factions from that setting. I havent gotten to run this exact scenario, because I am the only person in my group who likes the 40k-verse, but its always something I think of when starting new.

[Arcangel4774]

A decent idea for a good bbeg fight that follows along is a literal army of mind controlled soldiers or something

[Reaver25]

Well, as mentioned before, a highly ranked benevolent figure like an Arch-Bishop, Prince/Duke, Governor, etc who is actually the BBEG or a loyal minion is a good trope to follow. A bit cliche, but if you can draw out the reveal until months and months of play and having the PCs fully trust him before the reveal can lead to quite a reaction from your group. *snip*

This is a good idea, and like I said, I want to find a way to make these characters as subtle as possible. I really love big reveals, but most of my group is awful at not metagaming, tbh. I hate that, lol. Anyhow, I really enjoy the idea of some kind of high up official being the BBEG.

[DMThac0]

Just a few simple ideas that popped into my head:

The Church, attempting to quash all the blasphemous magic users, has sent out armies to destroy Wizard towers, Druid circles, Sorcerer Enclaves, etc.

The imbalance of magics in the world, derived from the creatures being destroyed, creates an ecological break down in the arcane creating rifts and magically related "natural" disasters.

The Elves, Dwarves, etc who all have their lineages tied into the mystical could also go into hiding, but less Tolkien and more coup/underground railroad esque.

[Reaver25]

Just a few simple ideas that popped into my head:

The Church, attempting to quash all the blasphemous magic users, has sent out armies to destroy Wizard towers, Druid circles, Sorcerer Enclaves, etc.

The imbalance of magics in the world, derived from the creatures being destroyed, creates an ecological break down in the arcane creating rifts and magically related "natural" disasters.

The Elves, Dwarves, etc who all have their lineages tied into the mystical could also go into hiding, but less Tolkien and more coup/underground railroad esque.

These are great! I love the idea of a massive human army going out to different areas, under the authority of the Church, and squashing these other "blasphemous" groups. Also, it's possible that the group of PCs could be with the humans going out to squash these evil folk, only to find out that they've been killing for the wrong reasons! Or something like that, lol.

[Herobizkit]

In a campaign of Good versus Evil, there might be a third faction who just wants to be left alone (yes, the Neutrals) and are willing to take on/interfere with both sides in order to ensure neither gains full power.

Humans running around crushing all the Magic-folk? Can't have that. But wait, they're secretly using Magic-folk to, I dunno, grind into powder to fuel their "Mekanikal" war machines? Uh-oh. Can't kill them ALL, I guess.

[Mongobear]

Another dream setting of mine:

It finally happened. After countless millenia of warfare, across an infinite number of realities, the eternal struggle that has plagued the lands of Greyhawk, Krynn, Faerun, Eberron, Ravenloft, and an infinite number of minor shard-worlds through-out the multiverse, is over. Good finally triumphed over Evil. In a final multiverse rattling battle across the infinite cosmos, the combined forces of Good struck the death blow against Evil, eradicating it from all existence forever.

But...

What the brave heros who assisted these beings in their victory didn't know, is that all of existence cannot survive without the existence of both Good and Evil struggling against one-another. The cosmic struggle is the balance that keeps the multiverse together, with one side wiped out, the multiverse will slowly begin to unravel, until eventually, nothing will remain.

This is where the PCs come in. Representing the final shreds of Evil across the multiverse, hailing from any number of planes of existence, they took refuge on Sigil as the war came to an end, managing to hide themselves in the depths of the city to survive. Now, they are the only hope to save reality, for they are the only beings capable of 'Evil' left in the cosmos. They must restore the balance, wage a [Number of PCs] man war against all of existence to bring Evil back into power and restore the balance so that all of existence doesn't wink out of existence.

[CaptainSarathai]

I was pinged to do seem writing for a tabletop game trying to get started out of Australia (actually had the artist from the 'Braid' console game) anyway -
The idea was that a human kingdom used some means to surpass the god they had long worshipped. Feeling greater than their god, they stopped believing in it - sacrificing, praying, whatever it was that had been sustaining their deity. Without sustenance, it died. The resulting cataclysm wiped the race out in an eyeblink, turning them into undead who's only vestige of reason is an undying hate of the living.
The death of the god weakens all other gods in the setting, similarly to a spreading plague. Mirroring the spreading plague in the heavens, a roiling fog begins creeping along the earth, inside of which live horrible, alien creatures of nightmare and death.
The world descends into darkness and anarchy. Civilized lands become brutally strict theocracies, attempting with varying degrees of success to keep their gods on 'life support', fearing the awful undead fate that awaits them should their god die entirely. Less successful cities see a wasting sickness, their population dwindling day by day as birth-rates plummet, the sick die, and the dead return to devour the living.
Creatures long lost to myth and legend (such as centaurs, dryads, other Fey etc) both good and evil walk the land, defending the lives of the 'Old Gods' whose worship has survived in hidden enclaves deep within the wilderness.

The largest kingdom in particular becomes the most successful, and most strict. Draconian, puritanical laws mirror the real-world events of the witch hunt. Devout priests tout the evils of Arcana - magic which drains the very life force of their holy god - and the common peasantry is whipped into a frenzy, forming lynch-mobs targeting suspected mages, burning 'heretical' temples, and perhaps even targeting certain races like Tieflings, Elves, and Dragonborn.

Enter your heroes, on a diplomatic mission to scout through the teeming, overgrown wilds and find allies not yet devoured by the fog or the plague. Perhaps they know the truth, that all gods are interconnected and only through cooperation can anyone hope to survive the horrors dwelling within the fog. Perhaps not.

The BBEG lives within the fog. 'Good' is represented by the need for fearful, disparate, misunderstood cultures to come together under a unified banner to save their gods and themselves from the spreading blight.

[Reaver25]

*snipped*

I really like all of this stuff. I think I would like the PCs to be characters that are trusted by the King of the Realm and he will be the one to issue command to the PCs. Something like, "Go and find out why all of these people are dying." Perhaps even the King won't know that the Church is going behind his back and killing any non-humans or magic users. Along the path, they find out that it is the Church doing this, and they have to tell the King. Before they can do this, the King is assassinated and the "Church" takes over. The plot for my story will go something like this, but again, I'm not sure how any of this will work logistically. Essentially, I'm wanting to create a good story-line and campaign that will last for quite awhile. What do you fellow playgrounders think?

[CaptainSarathai]

Well, if you want to run that setting (I've run a few campaigns using bits and pieces of it) then how you manage the story is up to you.

I think most people will tell you that shuffling the party from set-piece to set-piece is a bad idea. Because this is bad, it's hard to write out a whole campaign that will survive contact with the PCs. There more flexible a campaign is, the longer it will last - or the longer you want it to run, the more you need to be prepared for it to deviate off course.

To give the players agency, they should spend most of their time in the wilderness, with vague, "special forces" type orders;
"Go out there, and find out what's killing people" is a good start. It lets them choose what avenue to explore. If they want to run an urban intrigue thing, they'll question townsfolk. If they want to explore, they might hit a nearby dungeon or wizard tower, or travel to another city for their take on things.

I'd plan out story arcs. Remember that the adventurer's level coincides with how they should fit into the plot. Usually, I "map" world events around these tiers, and sometimes even leave gaps of time between them, so that a year or two might pass while they maintain a particular life style. For example, with the setting above, and your ideas:

They live in a village on the outskirts of the powerful puritanical empire. Lately, refugees from other, non-human realms have been flooding in. There's word of disappearances on the road, of strange beasts in the forests, and an eerie fog has been gathering at the edges of the settlement. The players investigate these things, and defend the settlement as they start piecing together the facts that there are 'Monsters' in the woods, and 'Aberrations' in the mist, and 'Undead' walking the earth. Lowly peasants don't know much beyond their own village though, so don't give away too much yet.
I would perhaps end this section with the PCs returning from a long adventure to find the town burned, people gone, and maybe some non-humans hanged or obviously targeted. This was the work of the church mobs, but the PCs don't know that (although maybe a really good Perception/Investigation finds tenuous clues pointing to some kind of church involvement). The PCs seem to be the sole survivors of their village. The king's cavalry arrive, and wish to bring the PCs to speak to the king.


The king summons them. Other villages on the border have been lost, under varying circumstances. Survivors are few and far between. He questions the band of adventurers on what happened, but they likely won't know anything.
During their time in the Capitol, or talking with the king, they should get a wider view of what's happening. They should see the effects of the withering sickness, should hear accounts of "beasts long lost to myth" in the forests, and hear about how the mysterious fog is cutting off communication with other kingdoms, and how one kingdom seems to have been wiped off the map, only to reappear as undead. They should also get the sense of growing paranoia surrounding the church, and maybe see doom-speakers extolling the apocalypse. Just remember: show, dont tell. Dont slam them with 45 minutes of monologued exposition.
The king sends them back out to gather info.
Adventure and stuff. They should complete their mission and seek to return to the king with info he did not have. At this point, church involvement should become more and more clear, although the church should still be fairly cooperative and "open" with PCs. They see street-preachers in most villages, they hear about the mobs, growing unrest, and so on. They should begin worrying about warning the king.


This is where the church reveals themselves as bad guys. The PCs try to warn the king, only to find that the church realized they knew too much and beat them to the punch. Maybe theyre so clichéd evil that they killed the king. Or maybe, they've gotten him to temporarily cede power to the church. Maybe he's just fallen ill and the church legally rules in his stead. The PCs should be urged to restore rightful rule or at least take power from the church.
For their part, the witch-hunts become more obviously political, as supporters of the king are being accused. This should include the players, at some point. I would have them meet a few other loyalist survivors who tell them to flee to another kingdom and find allies to overthrow the church.
That should be the point of these levels: heroes with the power and authority to speak for the realm, seeking allies to oust the church and restore order. It should seem that the campaign is over and the BBEG Pope is defeated. Except keep seeding in more and more concerns with the fog, as the story continues. Maybe the dying Pope even does the whole, "you fool, I was trying to save these wretches, and now you've just damned them all! Do you know what fresh hell lurks beyond the mists?"


At this point, the PCs have control of the realm, or ear the king, and have a powerful coalition among their allies.
The fog keeps rolling in, however, and the truth of the situation finally shakes out - the gods are dying/dead and the Chaos in the mist is at full power and ready to destroy the world.
Cue heroic music and epic showdown. Bonus points if all the PCs ultimately die or sacrifice themselves to kill the true BBEG. That way, the campaign can end with the fog dissipating to reveal the first clear blue skies in nearly a lifetime, and the 'tear-jerker' moment of the most heroic PC living just long enough to see it before slipping away.
Then it's all Who-bells and angel choirs as the coalition's belief and faith in the heroes sees them arisen as the first gods in a new era, as part of a pantheon revered by a unified world.
Extra Bonus Points if your next campaign is set after this, with the players' former characters being gods, so that they can play Clerics and Paladins who worship their past sheets.
Extra, Extra Bonus Points if at least one of the players was secretly Evil.

[Reaver25]

Well, if you want to run that setting (I've run a few campaigns using bits and pieces of it) then how you manage the story is up to you.

I think most people will tell you that shuffling the party from set-piece to set-piece is a bad idea. Because this is bad, it's hard to write out a whole campaign that will survive contact with the PCs. There more flexible a campaign is, the longer it will last - or the longer you want it to run, the more you need to be prepared for it to deviate off course.

To give the players agency, they should spend most of their time in the wilderness, with vague, "special forces" type orders;
"Go out there, and find out what's killing people" is a good start. It lets them choose what avenue to explore. If they want to run an urban intrigue thing, they'll question townsfolk. If they want to explore, they might hit a nearby dungeon or wizard tower, or travel to another city for their take on things.

I'd plan out story arcs. Remember that the adventurer's level coincides with how they should fit into the plot. Usually, I "map" world events around these tiers, and sometimes even leave gaps of time between them, so that a year or two might pass while they maintain a particular life style. For example, with the setting above, and your ideas:

They live in a village on the outskirts of the powerful puritanical empire. Lately, refugees from other, non-human realms have been flooding in. There's word of disappearances on the road, of strange beasts in the forests, and an eerie fog has been gathering at the edges of the settlement. The players investigate these things, and defend the settlement as they start piecing together the facts that there are 'Monsters' in the woods, and 'Aberrations' in the mist, and 'Undead' walking the earth. Lowly peasants don't know much beyond their own village though, so don't give away too much yet.
I would perhaps end this section with the PCs returning from a long adventure to find the town burned, people gone, and maybe some non-humans hanged or obviously targeted. This was the work of the church mobs, but the PCs don't know that (although maybe a really good Perception/Investigation finds tenuous clues pointing to some kind of church involvement). The PCs seem to be the sole survivors of their village. The king's cavalry arrive, and wish to bring the PCs to speak to the king.


The king summons them. Other villages on the border have been lost, under varying circumstances. Survivors are few and far between. He questions the band of adventurers on what happened, but they likely won't know anything.
During their time in the Capitol, or talking with the king, they should get a wider view of what's happening. They should see the effects of the withering sickness, should hear accounts of "beasts long lost to myth" in the forests, and hear about how the mysterious fog is cutting off communication with other kingdoms, and how one kingdom seems to have been wiped off the map, only to reappear as undead. They should also get the sense of growing paranoia surrounding the church, and maybe see doom-speakers extolling the apocalypse. Just remember: show, dont tell. Dont slam them with 45 minutes of monologued exposition.
The king sends them back out to gather info.
Adventure and stuff. They should complete their mission and seek to return to the king with info he did not have. At this point, church involvement should become more and more clear, although the church should still be fairly cooperative and "open" with PCs. They see street-preachers in most villages, they hear about the mobs, growing unrest, and so on. They should begin worrying about warning the king.


This is where the church reveals themselves as bad guys. The PCs try to warn the king, only to find that the church realized they knew too much and beat them to the punch. Maybe theyre so clichéd evil that they killed the king. Or maybe, they've gotten him to temporarily cede power to the church. Maybe he's just fallen ill and the church legally rules in his stead. The PCs should be urged to restore rightful rule or at least take power from the church.
For their part, the witch-hunts become more obviously political, as supporters of the king are being accused. This should include the players, at some point. I would have them meet a few other loyalist survivors who tell them to flee to another kingdom and find allies to overthrow the church.
That should be the point of these levels: heroes with the power and authority to speak for the realm, seeking allies to oust the church and restore order. It should seem that the campaign is over and the BBEG Pope is defeated. Except keep seeding in more and more concerns with the fog, as the story continues. Maybe the dying Pope even does the whole, "you fool, I was trying to save these wretches, and now you've just damned them all! Do you know what fresh hell lurks beyond the mists?"


At this point, the PCs have control of the realm, or ear the king, and have a powerful coalition among their allies.
The fog keeps rolling in, however, and the truth of the situation finally shakes out - the gods are dying/dead and the Chaos in the mist is at full power and ready to destroy the world.
Cue heroic music and epic showdown. Bonus points if all the PCs ultimately die or sacrifice themselves to kill the true BBEG. That way, the campaign can end with the fog dissipating to reveal the first clear blue skies in nearly a lifetime, and the 'tear-jerker' moment of the most heroic PC living just long enough to see it before slipping away.
Then it's all Who-bells and angel choirs as the coalition's belief and faith in the heroes sees them arisen as the first gods in a new era, as part of a pantheon revered by a unified world.
Extra Bonus Points if your next campaign is set after this, with the players' former characters being gods, so that they can play Clerics and Paladins who worship their past sheets.
Extra, Extra Bonus Points if at least one of the players was secretly Evil.

Wow man, this stuff is great, there's so much to respond to, and I will once I am at my computer! THANKS for all of the great advice and ideas!

Edit: There is just so much good material here. I really enjoy the long reveal of the Church being behind everything. I might use the name Chantry for the Church, it just sounds better to me. I think this will be a good campaign, well worth the investment that I am making now. I am not sure how the Chantry will feel about Druids, but since they revere different gods/nature, they will probably be killed off as well. Perhaps some kind of rebellion will be in order. Perhaps the King's mind will be poisoned by the Archfiend behind it all.

P.S. - I don't know much about Demons / Devils, where can I find more information about D&D Demons/Devils? Also, would the culprit behind all of this be more likely a Demon or a Devil?

[Reaver25]

I've also been thinking about doing a Church vs. State type of deal, where the King and the Church vie for power, but the Church is controlled by a Pit Fiend. Perhaps the PCs will even come across an Angel who has fallen, but the Church intends to slay the Angel because it is fallen/could be an enemy to the Church/Pit Fiend. I don't know, what do you guys think?