Advice for lv1 Arcane/ Melee hybrid

[Konun]

Hi all I'm starting playing in a campaign on Sunday .

I have only played 5th before in the playtest and it has changed a lot since then .

I would like to request some advice on playing an arcane Gish from lv1 . As I always want to play this style of char and there seems to be many options.

I like the idea of having spells to make up for my shortfalls as a melee char i.e. AoE / range . Originally I was thinking of going eldrich knight as this seems to be the only one with access to evocation spells. the only issue I can see is not being a spell caster at all lv1.

Any advice would be great I don't want to be massively op just a functioning caster melee hybrid would be nice.

Help will be very much appreciated.

[MrStabby]

What ratio of magic to fightyness do you want?

If its lowish magic you could play any martial class you want but with a high elf to get a wizard cantrip to use or play as a variant human to take magic initiate from level 1.

If you want high magic, then warlock with pact of the blade or a valor bard is probably the way to go, but they don't feel quite so martial from 1st level.

[Gastronomie]

-Bards can use Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire and Sleep, but suffer from low AC
-Clerics have armor proficiency and can buff with spells
-Favored Soul Sorcerers have armor proficiency and Shield, together with good spells, but have very low HP
-Warlocks can use Armor of Agathys and Hex, but suffer from low AC

That's probably about it. Clerics seem your best bet at level 1.

[Konun]

@MrStabby

I want to say I'd like to be about 50/50 but I be happy being 65/35 melee to magic . I'd definitely favour melee . Also arcane if possible.


Edit : I'd like to stick to PH1 as I'm new to 5e

[smcmike]

Level one is very, very short in 5e, by design. Personally, I wouldn't plan based around what a character can do at level one, since you'll be hitting level two around your first long rest.

So don't worry about Eldritch Knight not being a caster until level three. It's a fine base for a mostly-martial gish. If you really need gish flavor right from the beginning, you can choose a race with innate spellcasting (elf, gnome, tiefling), or you can choose variant human with the magic initiate or ritual caster feat.

There are plenty of other options, though, particularly if you are willing to multiclass. Sorcerer/paladin seems like a popular option, with good access to damage spells. Bladelock, or bladelock/paladin can do the same. Fighter/wizard is nice if you want to emphasize spells more. Valor Bard is a gish by design, but doesn't have the Evocation spell list you seem to be seeking.

[Gastronomie]

There are plenty of other options, though, particularly if you are willing to multiclass. Sorcerer/paladin seems like a popular option, with good access to damage spells. Bladelock, or bladelock/paladin can do the same. Fighter/wizard is nice if you want to emphasize spells more. Valor Bard is a gish by design, but doesn't have the Evocation spell list you seem to be seeking.Paladin/Sorcerer is good, and I have a guide about it in my sig, but it's probably better to first play a different build first - making it your very first character, it might be too complicated to handle and optimize.

For level 1, Clerics seem best (especially Tempest domain), but if you're gonna look at later levels as well, Bladelock is good. Start level 1 as Fighter and then go Warlock all the way. Works.

[MrStabby]

To get something from level 1 might be tricky.

Hill dwarf bard might work. You can go strength and plod about in heavy armour with a big two handed weapon whilst casting spells. A lot of bard spells don't need maxed Charisma to be effective. You wouldn't need to multiclass this which would help you get your ASIs in to get feats like great weapon mastery and polearm mastery.

Alternatively you could use a wizard base instead - going abjuration wizard for arcane ward then adding in fighter later - possibly better for a dex build and using mage armour.

This is all from the basic player's handbook as you requested.

[Specter]

Considering the 65/35 ratio you mentioned, you can solidly go Eldritch Knight. If you want Magic from level 1, you have a few options:

1) Take Variant Human for the Magic Initiate feat (Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade are nice, along with a ranged cantrip like Fire Bolt or Frostbite);
2) High Elf as a race (you get a wizard cantrip);
3) Half-Elf Variant from Sword Coast's Adventurers Guide (basically you trade skill versatility for the high elf cantrip or the drow's magic).

I for instance am playing a High Elf EK at level 9. I'm usually swinging and tanking in the front with scimitar and shield, but when I'm just too wounded or the enemy's too far, I go with Scorching Ray or Frostbite.

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm here to agree with Elven Eldritch Knight Fighter right from level 1.
High Elf gives you one Wizard cantrip right from the start. At level 3, which will usually come really really quickly, you get your full on EK stuff and real casting. Then, after a few levels, if you want to multiclass into wizard for a little more spellcasting and a lot more low level spell options, it wouldn't be a bad decision. It's not needed at all however. And if you did decide to do so, and if you were comfortable going with something not from the PHB (but still official) you would still be eligible for Bladesinger from the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide (SCAG) for 2-5 levels.

EK alone would fill the 65/35 split you're okay with.
The Wizard multiclass would bring that more toward the 50/50 that you want. The more Wizard, the closer it gets. At a 15/5 split you'll have the slots of a 10th level Wizard (but only know 3rd level spells, using the higher slots to upcast lower level spells). So 15 EK and 5 Wizard would get you that 50/50ish split while still keeping the focus on melee.

There's a thread currently discussing the merits of each of the Wizard subclasses in relation to a soldier mage here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504930-Strongest-Wizard-Subclass) that might be of interest to you. A post on the first page breaks each of them down individually, and I am inclined to agree with most of what is stated in that post. The only thing I'd note is that the thread is discussing them as a single classed wizard, not as an EK/Wiz multi, so if you wanted to go that route you'll have to basically just look at the first(level 2) subclass abilities of each of them instead of looking at them as a whole.
If you wanted to go that route, I'd recommend Bladesinger, Diviner, Abjuror, in that order, for my personal preference.

[Konun]

Thanks for all the help guys I think I'm going to go the elf/human EK 15 wiz5 route . One question though . Do wizards still have that ultra annoying casting system from 3.5ed?

[Specter]

Thanks for all the help guys I think I'm going to go the elf/human EK 15 wiz5 route . One question though . Do wizards still have that ultra annoying casting system from 3.5ed?

Not sure what you mean, but now you prepare a number of spells equal to your int + wiz level. EKs learn spells. Every 3 EK levels grant you a bonus caster level. So, by going that route, you'd get spell slots of a 10th-level caster (but not spells known).

[DivisibleByZero]

Do wizards still have that ultra annoying casting system from 3.5ed?

The way 5e works, think of a wizard as if he were a sorcerer from 3.5, but he can choose which spells to prepare every day instead of only having a small pool of known spells to cast from.
The spells granted from EK remain as a small unchangeable pool, like the sorcerer.
So with a multiclass, your EK spells are set, your wizard spells can change day by day, and you use the same pool of slots to cast them from.

[Konun]

The way 5e works, think of a wizard as if he were a sorcerer from 3.5, but he can choose which spells to prepare every day instead of only having a small pool of known spells to cast from.
The spells granted from EK remain as a small unchangeable pool, like the sorcerer.
So with a multiclass, your EK spells are set, your wizard spells can change day by day, and you use the same pool of slots to cast them from.

That's good didn't want to dicide every spell I wanted and quantitys again.

[CaptainSarathai]

That's good didn't want to dicide every spell I wanted and quantitys again.
Yeah, that's gone, thank god. You have Spell Slots by level, and then get to choose spells each day that can be cast with those slots. If you wanted, you could prepare all 2nd level spells, and totally forget about your 1st level slots.

Right now, there is really no 50/50 Gish in the game. You either have a Magical Rogue, Magical Fighter, or you have a Fighty Warlock, Fighty Bard, Fighty Wizard, etc

Multi-classing is indeed your best option. The only thing that sucks about this, is that as soon as you Multiclass, you get hit for spell slots. You only count as a spell caster of 1/3 your Fighter level as soon as you Multiclass. Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard always count their level. You add the two together for your total caster level. So:
15/3 = 5.
5+5 = 10th level

It would make you a bit MAD, but Sorcerer can make a decent Gish choice with EK. They have the ability to cast a spell as a Bonus Action, so you can get your full attack and then pop off a spell. You give up flexibility in spell choice, for flexibility in action choices. Unfortunately, they're Cha cadters. But if you look at what spells you want from each list, if nothing actually uses one of the stats, it's safe to leave it kinda low. For example, Haste is just Haste, it's no different with Int 20 than it is with Int02.

[Kane0]

Dwarf Abjurer wizard. As you level up take a few levels in Fighter (battlemaster or Eldritch Knight) and youre pretty much set.

[djreynolds]

Light cleric/ ranger?

[LudicSavant]

Favored Soul sorcerer is a decent arcane/melee hybrid from the get go. Absolutely nothing in any of the FS's abilities suggest that you need to flavor your abilities as divine rather than along the lines of being an eldritch knight.

At level 1, grab the Booming Blade cantrip from SCAG, War Caster, a shield, some armor, and the Shield spell and you're ready to go be an eldritch frontline tank with as much as 24 AC when you need it (w/ Half Plate and Shield) that can punish an enemy attempting to flee from you with somewhere in the range of 4d8+6 damage.

This totally scales all the way from 1-20. You can Quicken powerful spells while still beating faces in in melee, while maintaining a very high AC against beatstick foes, or throwing counterspell reactions at dangerous casters. You can do things like throw down Careful Web that lets and your teammates move freely about a battlefield full of restrained foes while you kick their teeth in with a mace, or throw down a pile of 10 shortswords and animate them all to shred your foes in a dance of synchronized blades with Animate Objects, or whatever. You're totally a full caster, in armor, that punches things in the face.

Paladin / Sorcerer can make for a decent gish as well. For example, Quicken Hold Person/Monster has some fun synergy with that early access to strong Divine Smites, since you automatically crit paralyzed foes.

[djreynolds]

He should just go bladesinger. No EK.

I like the idea of a favored soul also.

I like EK, but it really isn't a GISH. Its a fighter with some magic. IMO, most of my spell slots are used on blur, mirror image, fireshield, and the shield spell.

But when the favored soul or bladesinger at level 13 start throwing down chain lightning... no EK is doing that. As long as you have a good AC and shield spell access, and powerful spells, and can effectively melee... that's a GISH.

[SillyPopeNachos]

Bard will make you a master of some trades, and a jack of the rest. Two levels of paladin allows you to smite with spell slots, Conjure Volley from the Ranger list grabbed with magical secrets can give you respected range DPR, you can skill monkey right alongside the rouge, and you can grab a spell like fireball with your other magical secrets. Another great option is the Arcana Domain cleric out of the Sword Coast book: melee, healing, blasting.

[Gignere]

Pure EK is not a 65/35 Gish, it is more like 85/15. Personally I like the cleric as a 65/35 Gish particularly the death, tempest, war, and arcane domains. Another way to achieve this split is by multi classing mentioned by other posters.

Like sorcerer/paladin but the preferred leveling order doesn't allow for spell casting at level 1 or even arcane spells until level 7 or 8. Maybe magic initiate to get the spell sword feeling early.

EK/Wizard can also achieve your goal of the 65/35 split. I actually like the EK with magic initiate feat to start so you can be a spell sword from level 1. At level 8 multi class into wizard to get the 65/35 split at about the low teens.

1 Fighter/Bladelock X can also achieve the 65/35 feel.