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will.h
2007-07-12, 03:34 PM
If I have a fighter with a -2 int mod does that mean he doesnt get any skill points?

darkninjaoflight
2007-07-12, 03:36 PM
He gets 1 skill point each level, no matter how much of an intelligence penalty he has.

adanedhel9
2007-07-12, 05:22 PM
And if he's Human he gets two per level.

kjones
2007-07-12, 05:42 PM
The specific formula goes like this:

Skill points for a fighter = (2 + intelligence modifier) +1 for humans. The red part cannot go below 1.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 05:52 PM
The specific formula goes like this:

Skill points for a fighter = (2 + intelligence modifier) +1 for humans. The red part cannot go below 1.

Where does it say you add the human racial bonus skill after apply the negative Int?

It should be 2 (Ftr) - 2 (Int) + 1 (Human) = 1.

P.s. Outside of permanent Int loss, a Human shouldn't have below an 8 Int.

Xian
2007-07-12, 05:56 PM
Where it says that humans get 1 extra skill point at each level. That's a bonus applied to the normal skill points. So it's 2. If it were canceled out by the INT, then there wouldn't be any point in being human, so it's a bonus added on after the fact, as it were.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 05:59 PM
Where it says that humans get 1 extra skill point at each level. That's a bonus applied to the normal skill points. So it's 2. If it were canceled out by the INT, then there wouldn't be any point in being human, so it's a bonus added on after the fact, as it were.

That's fair enough, and probably correct.

I've never seen a Human with a permanent - 2 Int.

SilverClawShift
2007-07-12, 05:59 PM
Where does it say you add the human racial bonus skill after apply the negative Int?

I think most people regard it that way specifically because humans are supposed to have +1 skill point per level. By which I mean, they regard the flavor and INTENTION of giving humans an extra skill point as being important enough to do it that way.

As far as I'm aware, there's no official rule about that, but giving humans the extra point after everything else is decided doesn't seem too illogical.

An elf with 6 INT will get 0 skill points per level, and will therefor get 1 skill point per level just because you can't get 0.

A human with 6 INT is in the same boat, but a racial trait of humans is that they get an extra skill point, above and beyond what other races get, regardless of class. Maintaining that racial trait, and the balance it's intended to represent, would mean looking at how another race would behave, and THEN giving humans their bonus.
Leaving them with 2. 1 because they can't get less, another because they're human.

It makes sense in terms of mechanics, and it makes sense in terms of the human flavor.

But like I said, unless there's an official rule on it, it's just whatever you think seems right.

Raltar
2007-07-12, 07:10 PM
P.s. Outside of permanent Int loss, a Human shouldn't have below an 8 Int.

Unless you roll for stats then they could have 3 int if you get unlucky.

kjones
2007-07-12, 07:59 PM
P.s. Outside of permanent Int loss, a Human shouldn't have below an 8 Int.

Not all of us drank the point-buy Kool-Aid. 3d6, arranged as rolled, FTW! Ah, the good ol' days...

Fawsto
2007-07-12, 08:22 PM
It is quite not relative to the topic, but I tend (because of my overwhlming unluckness) to use point buy method... I also believe that it prevents the lucky CE Rogue Player to get a few 18s in his character sheet.

psychoticbarber
2007-07-12, 08:31 PM
Not all of us drank the point-buy Kool-Aid. 3d6, arranged as rolled, FTW! Ah, the good ol' days...

Hahaha, I still roll the dice. But I'm generous with my players: 4d6 drop lowest, 7 times (drop lowest roll), arrange as desired. But I don't go for that Iron Heroes realism stuff. Give me a truly High Fantasy any day!

Yechezkiel
2007-07-12, 08:39 PM
Personally, I'm cruel. I make my players all agree to point-buy or all agree to roll (I really like point-buy when I'm playing).

It took them three days to decide in the game I started last week.

Person_Man
2007-07-12, 10:05 PM
If you're not going for something that requires Combat Expertise or a lot of Skills, its generally a good idea for melee builds to dump Int. By being a Human with Nymph's Kiss, you still end up with 3 per level, which is enough to cover anything you might need (like Jump for Leap Attack).

Damionte
2007-07-13, 12:41 AM
Unless you roll for stats then they could have 3 int if you get unlucky.

HEATHEN !!

Leon
2007-07-13, 03:21 AM
That's fair enough, and probably correct.

I've never seen a Human with a permanent - 2 Int.

Then youve never seen a Khard, Kossite, Skirov or a Iridian

Swooper
2007-07-13, 03:24 AM
Then youve never seen a Khard, Kossite, Skirov or a IridianNow I'm curious, what the hell are those?

Firefingers
2007-07-13, 06:53 AM
I prefer to roll dice but then again (4d6 drop lowest) I normally average 2 18's per character with my best being 5 18's and a 16 who died in the first session and was rolled again getting a bit less only 2 18's (methinks the DM didnt like him)

Jayabalard
2007-07-13, 08:12 AM
that's quite impressive since the odds of rolling two 18s with 4d6 drop the lowest is less than 1% (0.51%), and the chances of getting five 18s is 0.00000227%.

Kiroho
2007-07-13, 08:46 AM
P.s. Outside of permanent Int loss, a Human shouldn't have below an 8 Int.

Oh, I don't know. I work with a bunch of people who do. :smallbiggrin:

Leon
2007-07-13, 09:56 AM
Now I'm curious, what the hell are those?

They are from Iron Kingdoms, Some of the varying human races.

The Stat adjustments are optinal but add more flavor than a atypical boring human who is the same as the next man, aswell as the adjustments you gain a few other minor features.
In anything i run the Stats are part of the race and not a option