[Spheres of Power] Gear of Power playtest (equipment book)

[stack]

Hello again!

In addition to the series of releases specific to each sphere in Spheres of Power (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/129448/Spheres-of-Power?hot60=1&src=hgrs) by Drop Dead Studios (http://www.dropdeadstudios.com/), the handbook authors have been assembling various ideas for equipment that either didn't fit in others books, as thought of too late, or just seemed to work better in a dedicated release. Therefore, I present to you for your playtesting pleasure:
Gear of Power (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIomq0TFP7uPdlFB8VRAIWQEjAXLV5CYpP3HmjySynU/edit?usp=sharing) (working title)

You will notice both that it has plenty of placeholders for stuff we haven't thought of yet and that it includes feats and class options that we felt thematic to the topic. Concerns, corrections, and suggestions are very welcome. We expect to leave this playtest open for a fair bit, so drop in whenever you want. Comments may be left in this thread or on the doc.

Other active SoP playtest:
Battlemage's Handbook (War Sphere) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?494623-Spheres-of-Power-War-Handbook-Open-Beta&highlight=war+sphere+playtest)
Nyctomancer's Handbook (Dark Sphere) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?499272-Spheres-of-Power-Nyctomancer-s-Handbook-Open-Playtest)
Creation Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505001-Spheres-of-Power-The-Creation-Sphere-Handbook-Open-Playtest)
Time Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476362-Spheres-of-Power-Time-Handbook-Open-Beta&highlight=time+sphere+handbook)
Wild Magic Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504864-Spheres-of-Power-Wild-Magic-Handbook-Playtest&p=21353375#post21353375)
Mentalist's Handbook (Mind Sphere) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505527-Spheres-of-Power-The-Mentalist-s-Handbook-Playtest)

[TheIronGolem]

Bomb-throwing Armorists make me happy in my no-no places.

[A.J.Gibson]

Bomb-throwing Armorists make me happy in my no-no places.

Trevor Stevens originally had a potion-based armorist archetype in his draft of the Life handbook with this option, but the archetype got completely changed, so this feature was moved to the Gear book and expanded on. It's still a work in progress. I expect the armorist will get a lot of this book.

[khadgar567]

love the shoulder wand cannon and like to see this puppy published

[digiman619]

I love the fact that you're renaming the crafting feats; that was one of the few things that I felt was missing from the initial book; not "could be refined" like what I'm seeing in the Creation Sphere handbook, or "has room for more options" like the Destroyer's Handbook did (stack, I still think you did amazing work there.), but "this needs to be here and isn't". When you redefined what the feats did, not renaming them to cover the changes seemed like a missed opportunity (looking at you, Forge Ring!).

[Lirya]

I find the items that reduce the cost and casting time of metamagic problematic. I will here provide some numbers to try to show why and provide a baseline for discussion.

Using this site as my source (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3), a CR 10 monster has a min. Hp of 91, Max HP of 171, and an average hp around 126.

Wizard 9/Crossblooded Sorcerer 1 with Varisian Tattoo, Spell Specialization, and Magical Lineage
Intensified Fireball -> 12d6+28 damage (average 70 damage; 3rd level spell)
Empowered Fireball -> 15d6+34 damage (average 86.5 damage; 4th level spell)
Empowered Intensified Fireball -> 18d6+40 damage (average 103 damage; 5th level spell)
Reflex DC 22 half (Int 24, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus)



Specialist Incanter 10 with a +3 staff

Destructive Blast -> 14d6+5 damage (average 54 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Searing Blast (fire) -> 14d8+5 damage (average 68 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Focused Searing Blast (fire) -> 14d8+19 damage (average 82 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Explosive Orb to turn this into an AoE for +1 SP.; Reflex DC 23 half/DC 24 with sphere focus. Total Spell Pool is probably close to 27 (Int 24).



Specialist Incanter 10 with a +1 Efficient staff and a Ring of Skilled Casting.

Destructive Blast -> 12d6+5 damage (average 47 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Empowered Destructive Blast -> 18d6+5 damage (average 68 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Empowered Searing Blast (fire) -> 18d8+5 damage (average 86 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)
Empowered Focused Searing Blast (fire) -> 18d8+23 (average 104 damage; 1 SP or full-round casting)

Empowered Maximized Destructive Blast -> 6d6+77 damage (average 98 damage; 2 SP or 1 SP + full-round casting)
Empowered Maximized Searing Blast (fire) -> 6d8+101 damage (average 128 damage; 2 SP or 1 SP + full-round casting)
Empowered Maximized Focused Searing Blast (fire) -> 6d8+119 damage (average 147 damage; 2 SP or 1 SP + full-round casting)

Quickened Empowered + Empowered Destructive Blast -> 36d6+10 damage (average 136 damage; 4 SP and swift + standard or 3 SP and swift + full-round)
Quickened Empowered + Empowered Searing Blast (fire) -> 36d8+10 damage (average 172 damage; 4 SP and swift + standard, 3 SP and swift + full-round, or 3 SP and standard + move)

Explosive Orb to turn this into an AoE for +1 SP.; Reflex DC 22 half/DC 23 with Sphere Focus. Total Spell Pool is probably close to 26 (Int 22).


As you can see, an Explosive Orb Empowered Maximized Searing Blast will more often than not oneshot at-level monsters that fail their save. This breaks encounter math and increases rocket tag.

Due to the multiplicative nature of metamagic, I would recommend that all cost reducers for metamagic have specific language that they do not stack with other cost reducers. Alternatively they should apply to the total metamagic cost instead of each metamagic individually like the paizo metamagic reducers do.

[A.J.Gibson]

Wow, I so rarely get real analysis like this. Thank you!

So the meta-magic items are all my fault (Gear is 'group sourced', so any spheres writer can add to it). I think you make a good case for not allowing these items to stack, and I'm pretty certain I'm going to dump efficient anyways, since its boring to have the same effect in two places. I might dump one of the rings as well. That being said, meta-magic is over priced in spheres, partially to stop you from blowing your entire spell point reserve on one spell (you can't empower and maximize and quicken anything other than a cantrip in base PF, but with spheres you can do it with anything if you spend all your allowance). In addition, several people have complained that blasting is under powered in spheres (and PF).

So what do you think of Entropic Gloves?

[khadgar567]

Wow, I so rarely get real analysis like this. Thank you!

So the meta-magic items are all my fault (Gear is 'group sourced', so any spheres writer can add to it). I think you make a good case for not allowing these items to stack, and I'm pretty certain I'm going to dump efficient anyways, since its boring to have the same effect in two places. I might dump one of the rings as well. That being said, meta-magic is over priced in spheres, partially to stop you from blowing your entire spell point reserve on one spell (you can't empower and maximize and quicken anything other than a cantrip in base PF, but with spheres you can do it with anything if you spend all your allowance). In addition, several people have complained that blasting is under powered in spheres (and PF).

So what do you think of Entropic Gloves?
to good to be true but I love it

[Lirya]

I agree that the baseline 1d6/level blasting options deal too little damage to be effective in most scenarios in PF. I do find it is still useful every now and then due to enemies sometimes being highly resistant to physical attacks against AC (such as swarms, some oozes, and sometimes player characters). It is also quite effective against large mobs of low-level monsters. At 10th level a normal core fireball from a non-evoker would deal 35 damage on average if the target fails its save. This is close to half of what the Blaster Wizard does with a 3rd level spell or what the Vanilla Incanter does with a Searing Blast.

Now in a more current pathfinder, my impression is that a dedicated blaster using metamagic, CL boosters and crossblooded-sorcerer dip is considered to deal enough damage to trivialize combat to a similar degree a control focused (god/batman) wizard would. Also, even a control focused wizard would want to use normal blasting spells these days, because the Dazing Spell metamagic is that good. Dazed for 3 rounds (dazing fireball), is pretty much a Save or Lose effect and it targets Reflex unlike most BFC spells.

For spheres of power, my opinion is we should try to avoid introducing effects that equal the most broken spells from vanician casting. My experience is that Destructive Blast starts out very strong at low levels (I had a Destruction Specialist who dominated combat in a 1st-level game completely due to 2d6+1 damage in a 10 ft. radius, reflex half), but the damage gets less impressive as your level increases. However, the destruction sphere gives easy access to combining damage with control and debuff options. Options such as Blinding Blast, Drowning Blast, and Shock Blast mean you don't have to be able to top tier damage to be effective, just like how Dazing Spell means a vanician wizard doesn't need to optimize damage for fireball to be a very good spell. In addition, options such as Force Blast and Stone Blast makes it near impossible to creatures to be immune to Destructive Blast.

So when it comes to the Entropic Gloves line, this magic item gives a multiplicative increase to blasting damage similar to what a cross-blooded sorcerer dip does (for an increase from d6 -> d8 multiply the damage from dice with 1.286, an increase from d6 -> d10 would multiply the damage from dice with 1.571). It is expensive enough that it cannot be afforded until after 10th level, but if you want damage then the effect is strong enough that vanician casters were willing to sacrifice progressing spellcasting to pick it up. Without further analysis, I would prefer Entropic Gloves increase damage by 1 die size for 50 000 gp and Entropic Gloves, Greater to increase damage by 2 die sizes for 100 000 gp.

Finally, remember that Spheres of Power has meta sphere talents. Blast Types, Extended Range Talents, Mass Targeting talents, talents that combine effects such as Restorative Cure, and Dual Light, and even effects that change action economy into allowing you to nova such as Shift Time or makes saving against your effects more difficult like Curse. You have to be very careful when dealing with multiplicative effects that can stack with other multiplicative effects, because they by definition cause the numbers to grow exponentially.

[khadgar567]

I agree that the baseline 1d6/level blasting options deal too little damage to be effective in most scenarios in PF. I do find it is still useful every now and then due to enemies sometimes being highly resistant to physical attacks against AC (such as swarms, some oozes, and sometimes player characters). It is also quite effective against large mobs of low-level monsters. At 10th level a normal core fireball from a non-evoker would deal 35 damage on average if the target fails its save. This is close to half of what the Blaster Wizard does with a 3rd level spell or what the Vanilla Incanter does with a Searing Blast.

Now in a more current pathfinder, my impression is that a dedicated blaster using metamagic, CL boosters and crossblooded-sorcerer dip is considered to deal enough damage to trivialize combat to a similar degree a control focused (god/batman) wizard would. Also, even a control focused wizard would want to use normal blasting spells these days, because the Dazing Spell metamagic is that good. Dazed for 3 rounds (dazing fireball), is pretty much a Save or Lose effect and it targets Reflex unlike most BFC spells.

For spheres of power, my opinion is we should try to avoid introducing effects that equal the most broken spells from vanician casting. My experience is that Destructive Blast starts out very strong at low levels (I had a Destruction Specialist who dominated combat in a 1st-level game completely due to 2d6+1 damage in a 10 ft. radius, reflex half), but the damage gets less impressive as your level increases. However, the destruction sphere gives easy access to combining damage with control and debuff options. Options such as Blinding Blast, Drowning Blast, and Shock Blast mean you don't have to be able to top tier damage to be effective, just like how Dazing Spell means a vanician wizard doesn't need to optimize damage for fireball to be a very good spell. In addition, options such as Force Blast and Stone Blast makes it near impossible to creatures to be immune to Destructive Blast.

So when it comes to the Entropic Gloves line, this magic item gives a multiplicative increase to blasting damage similar to what a cross-blooded sorcerer dip does (for an increase from d6 -> d8 multiply the damage from dice with 1.286, an increase from d6 -> d10 would multiply the damage from dice with 1.571). It is expensive enough that it cannot be afforded until after 10th level, but if you want damage then the effect is strong enough that vanician casters were willing to sacrifice progressing spellcasting to pick it up. Without further analysis, I would prefer Entropic Gloves increase damage by 1 die size for 50 000 gp and Entropic Gloves, Greater to increase damage by 2 die sizes for 100 000 gp.

Finally, remember that Spheres of Power has meta sphere talents. Blast Types, Extended Range Talents, Mass Targeting talents, talents that combine effects such as Restorative Cure, and Dual Light, and even effects that change action economy into allowing you to nova such as Shift Time or makes saving against your effects more difficult like Curse. You have to be very careful when dealing with multiplicative effects that can stack with other multiplicative effects, because they by definition cause the numbers to grow exponentially.

so tl;dr version please

[A.J.Gibson]

In 4chan a few minutes ago:



Buffs are good, avoid destruction like the plague, and anything that gives saves to the other side as well.

Boost yourself, and use utilities; much of Light is good if I recall.


I keep seeing people complaining that blasting isn't good enough, and I agree with them. I see Lirya's point about being able to add control options, but I don't want to be a controller, I want to be a blaster. In 4e, being a spellcasting blaster was perfectly reasonable, but for some reason PF doesn't allow it.

[stack]

Not sure why people are saying destruction can't do enough damage at later levels. Metamagic is expensive but it is possible to crank out solid numbers with focused builds. Elementalist with focused blast and gather energy for example.

[A.J.Gibson]

so tl;dr version please
-blasting is strong at low levels
-at higher levels, you can branch out more into control
-the gloves should cost twice as much

I agree with the first point. The second point is true, but I don't think you should be forced out of a blaster role because of the limitations of a sphere, if I want to spend all my resources becoming a glass cannon, then that's fine. Not certain about the cost, doubling it seems too high to me, but I might adjust it. I want the gloves to be available but expensive at levels 10, 15, and 20.

[khadgar567]

-blasting is strong at low levels
-at higher levels, you can branch out more into control
-the gloves should cost twice as much

I agree with the first point. The second point is true, but I don't think you should be forced out of a blaster role because of the limitations of a sphere, if I want to spend all my resources becoming a glass cannon, then that's fine. Not certain about the cost, doubling it seems too high to me, but I might adjust it. I want the gloves to be available but expensive at levels 10, 15, and 20.

more damage is still good and cost looks good for basicly tripling damage of destruction blast with sphere point you are dealing 20d12+ stat damage as my second coment says to good to be true and must for any destruction sphere focused build

[A.J.Gibson]

I'm going to alter the gloves to add a stat +1/+2/+3 per die instead of increasing die size, so that it doesn't stack with maximize meta-magic.

[Lirya]

I keep seeing people complaining that blasting isn't good enough, and I agree with them. I see Lirya's point about being able to add control options, but I don't want to be a controller, I want to be a blaster. In 4e, being a spellcasting blaster was perfectly reasonable, but for some reason PF doesn't allow it.

In 4e, dealing damage was pretty much the only way to end combat (barring alternative objectives). In 4e it is simple to perform DPR calculations and you can have a solid understanding of how this translated into real play due to fairly standardized defenses and special non-numeric abilities not introducing massive amounts of "you must be this tall to pass" situations. I can easily take a Sorcerer in 4e at various levels and show which options are weak, which options are strong, and some options that should only be used in a super-high optimization environment due to dealing way more damage than expected.

In PF, this is impossible because you can make 0 safe assumptions about party composition and the various effects caused by spells, sphere effects, magic items and monsters can cause auto-win or auto-lose situations depending upon if someone prepared for X, Y, or Z or not.

To compare with 4e. Assuming equivalent ease of targeting in 4e, the general assumption of char-op was that a multi-target attack from a Striker that has 75% of the single target DPR of a single target attack is approximately equivalent. Translated to PF, your blaster should preferably have 75% of the DPR of your charging Barbarian or Path of War character with a similar level of optimization and investment into offense. If this DPR approaches enemy max hp, then the blaster is significantly more powerful than the martials due to 1-shoting encounters instead of just single enemies.


Not sure why people are saying destruction can't do enough damage at later levels. Metamagic is expensive but it is possible to crank out solid numbers with focused builds. Elementalist with focused blast and gather energy for example.

You are quite right, once you add metamagic into the game (and at high levels, especially with the cost reducing ring this is clearly worth it for a dedicated blaster) damage at high levels can keep up with monster hp growth.

[Lirya]

Part of what I am trying to say is, please look at monster hp, sample builds, and the DPR of the things you want to compare yourself with before making big changes to how much damage a blaster deals. The effectiveness of a pure blaster is based on math, make sure you do the math. Also, stack should be able to help provide some insights as I am pretty sure he ran the numbers for various damage upgrades while writing the Destruction Handbook.

[stack]

Part of what I am trying to say is, please look at monster hp, sample builds, and the DPR of the things you want to compare yourself with before making big changes to how much damage a blaster deals. The effectiveness of a pure blaster is based on math, make sure you do the math. Also, stack should be able to help provide some insights as I am pretty sure he ran the numbers for various damage upgrades while writing the Destruction Handbook.
Big issue is that we aren't really talking about damage exactly, since metamagic was already available. You can already stack three explosive orbs in a round by using quicken to cast as swift and move actions in addition to a maximized empowered quickened standard. The issue is that doing so takes all your spell points. Every metamagic reducer makes that nova more doable, which is something to be cautious of.

[pilvento]

I love this book already and its not even halfway doone, you guys make me happy.

The predator/warmachine like shoulder wand turret for armors makes me extra happy.

I second the idea of tuning down a bit the metamagic multipliers, its true that you have to go nova-like and expend lots of resourses to pull encounter ending combos in a round, but not all advengures have 4+ encounters a day, also sorcerers/oracles, also lots of drawbacks.

I also second to make the gloves give just a +x bonus to dmg per die to avoid empower/maximise shanenigans.

I also wold like an item or an staff ability that gives a bonus against spell resistance. A +2 that adds your staff enhancement to your rolls and doubles it by spending a spellpoint or something like that?

And about the blasting issue.

As soon as I got my hands on SoP i wanted to make a blaster, the sense of progresion and learning it gives its much better that just using fireball in a diferent way every level, and after 12 levels of straight blasting (flame oracle with destruction and nature sphere) and not using a single metamagic feat I really dont see what all the complaining is about, my dm had to tune-up every encounter we ran into in the adventure path so far.

And I really want to like the admixture idea but mixing all that heavy dmg and also going full control its a bit to much for my taste. (not the case for the blasts that just give a small -x to some rolls or ac, thats cool. But dealing full damage and entangling/blinding/triping? not cool)

Bonus - Sphere unchained monk archetype
Select a sphere, gain that spehere as a bonus talent, use your monk lvl for that sphere only CL, CMB and CMD. Replace stuning fist.
Can gan a talent for that sphere only in place of a bonus feat or ki power.
Can use ki points as spell points.


Thats all, keep up the good work, make us happy.

P.S: I am already saving for my special edition of the SoP Talent compendium after all this handbooks are done.

[meemaas]

P.S: I am already saving for my special edition of the SoP Talent compendium after all this handbooks are done.

I'm hoping for a full on Ultimate Spheres of Power style release, combining the original content with all the handbooks, although that's asking for a lot, I'd buy that sucker in hardback before it was even ready.

[digiman619]

I'm hoping for a full on Ultimate Spheres of Power style release, combining the original content with all the handbooks, although that's asking for a lot, I'd buy that sucker in hardback before it was even ready.

Seconded so hard. I don't have a lot of disposable income, so I might have to save up, but I'd start saving today if I had a release date of when it'd be out.

[stack]

The idea of a compiled release has been discussed. A good ways off though.

[A.J.Gibson]

Bonus - Sphere unchained monk archetype
Select a sphere, gain that spehere as a bonus talent, use your monk lvl for that sphere only CL, CMB and CMD. Replace stuning fist.
Can gan a talent for that sphere only in place of a bonus feat or ki power.
Can use ki points as spell points.



There's a few issues with this. The following is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt:
-it takes 2 feats for a class to become a low caster, a talent costs a feat, and getting +5 caster level to 1 sphere is also worth a feat, here, you want to trade in stunning fist (worth a feat) for 5 feats worth of ability at level 1, making the archetype a very good dip
-generally, we don't give low casters full casting with a sphere unless there is also some serious limitation to how they use the sphere
-using Ki as spell points is an issue because Ki can be regained and SP is supposed to be a daily resource
-turning a martial into a caster is usually bad design (in my opinion), because you end up having to gut the class, and you end up with an uncohesive mess. If there is particular sphere, then you're better off giving the class spell-like abilities based on the sphere than making them an actual caster. If you want to play a caster that can also do martial arts, you'd be better off designing an archetype that adds martial arts to an existing caster. For example:

MageFist (MageKnight archetype)

The magefist loses proficiency with light armor, medium armor, and shields, and adds their casting ability modifier to AC and CMD while unarmored, +1 every 4 levels.

At 1st level, the magefist gains the flurry of blows and style strike class features as a monk of equal level. This replaces resist magic

At 1st level, the magefist gains ki strike as a monk of equal level. This replaces the magical talent gained at 1st level.

At 3rd level, the magefist gains evasion. This replaces Stalwart.

At 4th level and every 4 level thereafter, the magefist gains a ki power. The mageknight uses spell points instead of ki. This replaces bonus combat feats.

Actually, it would be better to just create a sphere version of the spiritualist. The spiritualist is another (non-sphere) class made by DDS which is basically a monk with 6 level divine casting.

[Mehangel]

Bonus - Sphere unchained monk archetype
Select a sphere, gain that spehere as a bonus talent, use your monk lvl for that sphere only CL, CMB and CMD. Replace stuning fist.
Can gan a talent for that sphere only in place of a bonus feat or ki power.
Can use ki points as spell points.



You may want to take a look at the Yamabushi (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/yamabushi), found in the Geomancer's Handbook.

[pilvento]

There's a few issues with this. The following is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt:
-it takes 2 feats for a class to become a low caster, a talent costs a feat, and getting +5 caster level to 1 sphere is also worth a feat, here, you want to trade in stunning fist (worth a feat) for 5 feats worth of ability at level 1, making the archetype a very good dip
-generally, we don't give low casters full casting with a sphere unless there is also some serious limitation to how they use the sphere
-using Ki as spell points is an issue because Ki can be regained and SP is supposed to be a daily resource
-turning a martial into a caster is usually bad design (in my opinion), because you end up having to gut the class, and you end up with an uncohesive mess. If there is particular sphere, then you're better off giving the class spell-like abilities based on the sphere than making them an actual caster. If you want to play a caster that can also do martial arts, you'd be better off designing an archetype that adds martial arts to an existing caster. For example:


Thanks for the feedback Gibson, and I apreciate the time you took. My suggestion about the sphere monk was a bit vague, the idea behind it was that like Mehangel already stated there is an archetype that gives a monk spherecasting, but its nature focused, and so is the shadowboxer in the dark handbook. Instead of waiting for every single handbook to make their own monk archetype I liked the idea of having an universal one. Now... to the main points of its discuccion.

-Since you said it requires about 5 feats to torn a non caster full casterish then giving up all monk bonus feats in adition to stuning fist can make it even.
-The limitation of making it a full caster with a sphere is to only allow him to use THAT sphere only
-Ki points may be regained but the ways for it are really limited, and it also means you have half as much compared to spell points.
-I already knew that a dip in this archetype would be great, but wording that you count your MONK lvl for your CL for that sphere only will make you want to go single class cause for any other sphere caster to multiclass into it will make them lose a CL on every other sphere.

[digiman619]

Thanks for the feedback Gibson, and I apreciate the time you took. My suggestion about the sphere monk was a bit vague, the idea behind it was that like Mehangel already stated there is an archetype that gives a monk spherecasting, but its nature focused, and so is the shadowboxer in the dark handbook. Instead of waiting for every single handbook to make their own monk archetype I liked the idea of having an universal one. Now... to the main points of its discuccion.]

The Yamabushi archetype is honestly really easy to make universal; it only replaces the 1st level feat and the capstone, and if you don't want to be Nature themed, it's really easy to retrain using the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign.

[stack]

Added a link to the mentalist's handbook.

Regarding grafts, should grafts that grant sphere abilities be made into scaling items, or should there just be general notes on upgrading them? "You may increase the CL by 1 for X gp"

Do people have experience using the Paizo tech graft system? I haven't seen it in play or heard much about it, but if there are problems I would like to work around them.

[stack]

Added a minor item, the quill of endless ink, and a more significant item, bonded quills for communicating across great distances. Didn't think the standard rod pricing really worked (permanent creation with CL10 just to never run out of ink would have been ludicrously expensive, even applying the limitations), so I threw darts at the prices.

Bonded Quills
Aura faint Creation & Divination; CL 5
Slot none; Price 1,000 gp; Weight -
Description
These feather quills come in pairs. Each quil functions as a quill of endless ink. When both are held by a willing creature, any writing produced by one quill is instantly reproduced by the other, so long as both are on the same plane. A creature holding one quill is always aware if the other quill is being held by a willing creature, though no other information about that creature is gained.
Construction Requirements
Craft Rod; Price 500 gp

Quill of Endless Ink
Aura faint Creation; CL 1
Slot none; Price 80 gp; Weight -
Description
This feather quill is perpetually supplied with ink, creating enough to write continuously, though never dripping. The quill usually comes with a small metal carrying case capable of safely holding up to three quills. Some quills are creating with special inks; 5 vials of the special ink are consumed in the process of crafting a quill with a special ink. Each quill can only use one type of ink.
Construction Requirements
Craft Rod; Price 40 gp

Bonded quills are probably too cheap for how useful they would be in terms of kingdoms and trade. Neat nick-knack for an adventurer, amazing for a trading company.

[legomaster00156]

Given that Sending is a level 5 spell (though I'd have put it at level 3 personally), I'd say the Bonded Quills need a higher price. I'd probably put them at 7,000~ gp for a pair.

[stack]

Given that Sending is a level 5 spell (though I'd have put it at level 3 personally), I'd say the Bonded Quills need a higher price. I'd probably put them at 7,000~ gp for a pair.

Sending is a fair reference (though its 4 for divine casters rather than 5). Quills have unlimited use but only ever go to one target and you don't know who is on the other end. They require organization.

Continuous sending is 224,000 gp, which is ludicrous. Honestly I think just pulling a number out of the air is the best way to price this one. 7k sounds reasonable. Anybody else have thoughts?

[legomaster00156]

Also, would it not make more sense for the bonded items to be books rather than quills? What if one quill has nothing to write on when the other tries to send a message?

[stack]

Also, would it not make more sense for the bonded items to be books rather than quills? What if one quill has nothing to write on when the other tries to send a message?

That is one of the limitations. I may have shamelessly stolen the idea from the Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson, though I didn't have it light up when someone wants to send a message.

[legomaster00156]

May I propose an alternate item in book form, with a limited number of pages? Each page can magically transmit up to 100 words to the same page in the paired book. So, for example, if there are 50 pages, that is up to 5,000 words transmitted between both directions.

[Mithril Leaf]

I'd personally value the quills at around 5k? That puts them close to when magical communication could be an assumed asset. 7k seems a bit much though. It only really helps for splitting the party and keeping in contact with a home base.

[stack]

May I propose an alternate item in book form, with a limited number of pages? Each page can magically transmit up to 100 words to the same page in the paired book. So, for example, if there are 50 pages, that is up to 5,000 words transmitted between both directions.
The thought had crossed my mind. Limited use would keep the cost down.

I'd personally value the quills at around 5k? That puts them close to when magical communication could be an assumed asset. 7k seems a bit much though. It only really helps for splitting the party and keeping in contact with a home base.
Yeah, the utility is limited for normal adventurers. As I mentioned though, a kingdom communicating between keeps and the capitol or a trading company sending information would kill for them. (Adventurers would kill for them too, but they kill for everything :smallbiggrin:)

Anyhow, price suggestion noted.

[Mithril Leaf]

So I'm just going to toss out the fact that Enhancement Sphere abilities can require saving throws. Do with that knowledge what you will.

[stack]

So I'm just going to toss out the fact that Enhancement Sphere abilities can require saving throws. Do with that knowledge what you will.

In regards to? Could be a basis for cursed/trick items.

[Mithril Leaf]

In regards to? Could be a basis for cursed/trick items.

Punishing Staff.

[Ironsides]

I would like to see an item that lets you store a Spell Point by spending a Spell Point so you can use it later when you are in a bind.

[digiman619]

I would like to see an item that lets you store a Spell Point by spending a Spell Point so you can use it later when you are in a bind.

This is a good idea, but there has to be some way to limit that, or spell points lose their importance quickly.

[khadgar567]

I would like to see an item that lets you store a Spell Point by spending a Spell Point so you can use it later when you are in a bind.


This is a good idea, but there has to be some way to limit that, or spell points lose their importance quickly.
Is it sphere wands work in same principle but i agree both of you item allowing you to store spell points for rainy( non weather sphere) day would be good

[Mehangel]

I would like to see an item that lets you store a Spell Point by spending a Spell Point so you can use it later when you are in a bind.

Request fulfilled, check out the 'Wand of Capacity' in the Scaling Wand section.

[Adam Meyers]

Sorry for the Necromancy, but the book has been updated and moved to a new google doc:

Gear 2.0 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l5DElL2i6pCwNhT0jLgEFOfuYCLbBeW0LH-glKQndTk/edit?usp=sharing)

If you have a chance, come see the new version!

[Drewski]

Sorry for the Necromancy, but the book has been updated and moved to a new google doc:

Gear 2.0 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l5DElL2i6pCwNhT0jLgEFOfuYCLbBeW0LH-glKQndTk/edit?usp=sharing)

If you have a chance, come see the new version!

Are there any large changes you need us to take a look at?

Since this is the book of Gear is there any chance that you guys will update the Artisan to interact with the sphere system, or maybe the creation of another Artificeresk class?

[SangoProduction]

In 4chan a few minutes ago:
I keep seeing people complaining that blasting isn't good enough, and I agree with them. I see Lirya's point about being able to add control options, but I don't want to be a controller, I want to be a blaster. In 4e, being a spellcasting blaster was perfectly reasonable, but for some reason PF doesn't allow it.

...I am actually quite confused by this complaint. Destruction's got great damage - the best in the entire spheres - and has rider effects.

We can compare the baseline spell point blast to the median monster hp per level, (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3) with absolutely 0 investment, outside of that one talent. And remember...you are part of a team, and are kinda supposed to let others contribute to the fight

Lvl 1 is an oddity with the scaling.
Lvl 2: 19 hp; 7 avg damage. Would take about 3 shots to kill someone from full HP
lvl 3: 30 hp; 10.5 avg damage. 3 shots.
lvl 4: 39 hp; 14 damage. just under 3 shots
lvl 5: 52 hp; 17.5 dmg. 3 shots
lvl 6: 68 hp; 21 damage. just over 3 shots
lvl 7: 84.5 hp; 24.5 dmg. 3.4 shots
lvl 8: 95 hp; 28 dmg. 3.4 shots
lvl 9: 114 hp; 31.5 dmg. 3.6 shots
lvl 10: 126 hp; 35 dmg. 3.6 shots

That's beyond incredibly efficient and reliable. And that's with literally no investment. Take a twinsoul elementalist, and you have 1.5x your normal caster level for damage. Add staves, and you now have even better damage. Dip Incanter (because it was a poorly designed class) to get even better damage. And there are so many other ways to increase damage (including a talent in Destruction sphere). And that's before metamagic, which has been turned to essentially unrestricted in SoP. Oh, and did I forget that you are possibly drowning or dazing them in addition to chunking them like a power attacking barbarian on a touch attack?

Destruction is arguably the second most powerful sphere in the entire system. (The first being Conjuration, for having an infinite supply of mages at your beck and call. And I don't think a single mage could be considered more powerful than 3+ mages of slightly lower power level.)

[Sam C.]

stuff

And now I understand why it's usually considered bad form to necro threads...

[SangoProduction]

And now I understand why it's usually considered bad form to necro threads...

No kidding.