We might need to fight a min-maxed Mesmerist, how can we NOT die?

[RittenRemedy]

We have a CE Mesmerist in our party who has told me in secret she plans to turn on the party. GM is aware of her intentions, but I think he's letting us diffuse the situation or letting her feel the consequences. If it does come to blows, how can we not die? He's got a bit of a broken build, and we recently lost our paladin to work circumstances. Those left are a ranger, a druid, a bard, and both our wolf animal companions.

[Beelzebub1111]

Depends on the edition, but you have a bard. Bards have countersong. In early editions, this means as long as the bard plays music nothing that relies on words or voice can work i.e. charms, suggestions, mind control, power words. all for nothing.

[RittenRemedy]

Depends on the edition, but you have a bard. Bards have countersong. In early editions, this means as long as the bard plays music nothing that relies on words or voice can work i.e. charms, suggestions, mind control, power words. all for nothing.

I found this under bard:


Countersong (Su): At 1st level, a bard learns to counter magic effects that depend on sound (but not spells that have verbal components.)

Wouldn't that not work against spells?

I'll ask our bard what she thinks. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Lord Torath]

Where (rulebook-wise) is the Mesmerist from? I'm unaware of the mechanics of how it works. Can he mesmerize both humans and wolves at the same time? Does the mesmerizing effect require constant chanting/speaking/singing by the Mesmerizer? Can the Mesmerizing effect be canceled by attacking the mesmerizer?

Note that this sub-forum is generally for Basic/Expert D&D, BECMI D&D, and 1st & 2nd Edition AD&D, and non-D&D games. Newer editions have their own subforums, and you will probably get better information asking in the appropriate sub-forum if the Mesmerizer is from a newer edition. Or ask a moderator to move this thread.

[The_Snark]

Based on the text of the bard's countersong and the existence of a Mesmerist class, I'm guessing that this is a Pathfinder game? That would typically go in this subforum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?59-D-amp-D-3e-3-5e-d20), as it's a close cousin to D&D 3.5.

On-topic, it really depends on how the mesmerist plans to turn on you. The class is not that powerful in a straight fight, so I'd expect you'll be fine if that happens, but... the class specializes in subtle enchantment- and illusion-style effects, which could be really bad for you if they're smart about using them. If half the party ends up charmed in secret before the fight starts, or if they use illusions to undermine you while you're fighting some other monster, that'll be harder to deal with. I'm not sure what to advise there, except general paranoia. Protection from mind-affecting magic would be good too but I'm not sure how feasible that is; mind blank would be ideal but it's high-level, protection from evil/magic circle against evil are easier to get but have shorter durations, and I don't think any of those are on the bard/druid/ranger lists...

[RittenRemedy]

Where (rulebook-wise) is the Mesmerist from? I'm unaware of the mechanics of how it works. Can he mesmerize both humans and wolves at the same time? Does the mesmerizing effect require constant chanting/speaking/singing by the Mesmerizer? Can the Mesmerizing effect be canceled by attacking the mesmerizer?

Note that this sub-forum is generally for Basic/Expert D&D, BECMI D&D, and 1st & 2nd Edition AD&D, and non-D&D games. Newer editions have their own subforums, and you will probably get better information asking in the appropriate sub-forum if the Mesmerizer is from a newer edition. Or ask a moderator to move this thread.

Argh thanks I'm on my phone and thought I was in the pathfinder forum already.

Here's the link to the basic Mesmerist page: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist

Ours is Vox/Enigma archetype. Cha is ~18 and Wis and Dex are high. Tactics are nerf the opponents' mental stats and then go in with wounding words. For defense, she has a 20% concealment spell and maybe some others.
She also has a spell with a fear effect she attempted to use once, but our paladin stopped her. A lot of her Mesmerist tricks are instantaneous too, so pretty dangerous.

She was really good party-wise today, so hopefully it won't come to blows. I'm not hoping too hard though.

[Extra Anchovies]

We have a CE Mesmerist in our party who has told me in secret she plans to turn on the party.

We have a name for people who do this, and that name is "rat bastard". This is a collaborative storytelling game, and a lot of people play it to spend time with (out-of-game) friends while working towards a common (in-game) goal - major inter-party betrayals should be, at least on a broad-strokes level, something that everyone's okay with. I recommend discussing this with the Mesmerist's player, and advising them to make sure some way or another that nobody would be upset by a betrayal of some sort or another.



Ah, the vox... :smallsigh: One of psychic spellcasting's balancing factors is the emotion component, which cannot be produced while under a non-harmless emotion or fear effect. The Vox does away with those. However, they do add verbal components, which means deafening them applies a failure chance to spells and Compelling Voice, and fear/emotion effects still shut off the Cha to Will saves from Towering Ego. It's also worth noting that the Concentration DC for spells with thought components (which the Vox retains) is 10 higher, so casting defensively is a fair bit harder (DC 25+2*spell level, check d20+CL+Cha). Also, keep in mind that they can only have one trick in any given creature (including themselves) at a time. Manifold Tricks only allows simultaneous placement of tricks in multiple creatures.

[The_Snark]

Ah, if you're dealing with a vox then silence is a pretty hard counter. That's on the bard spell list, so if you can grab a scroll or wand (or if you're lucky and the bard actually knows the spell) you will have something very close to a win button if it comes to a fight. The mesmerist getting the drop on you is still a concern, though.

(Also seconding Extra Anchovies' thoughts on talking it over OOC; I don't have a good sense of whether this is a thing the group is OK with or if your mesmerist's player is acting up, but if they warned you in advance it sounds like there's at least some communication going on.)

[Red Fel]

Argh thanks I'm on my phone and thought I was in the pathfinder forum already.

Here's the link to the basic Mesmerist page: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/mesmerist

Ours is Vox/Enigma archetype. Cha is ~18 and Wis and Dex are high. Tactics are nerf the opponents' mental stats and then go in with wounding words. For defense, she has a 20% concealment spell and maybe some others.
She also has a spell with a fear effect she attempted to use once, but our paladin stopped her. A lot of her Mesmerist tricks are instantaneous too, so pretty dangerous.

She was really good party-wise today, so hopefully it won't come to blows. I'm not hoping too hard though.

First off: How can you mix Vox and Enigma? Both Vox's Compelling Voice and Enigma's Solipsism replace Hypnotic Stare; both Vox's Wounding Words and Subsonic Strike and Enigma's Transfer Affliction replace Touch Treatment. You can't take an archetype that replaces a class feature that's already been replaced by another archetype.

Second: As mentioned, Bard's Countersong is a pretty solid block. Specifically, the following language:

Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard's Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a non-instantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard's Perform skill check result for the save.
With a high enough Perform check, you can pretty much guarantee saves against sonic or language-dependent abilities. Vox abilities fall into that category. Compelling Voice doesn't explicitly say (sonic, language-dependent), but it does require the target to be able to hear the user, which suggests the tags; Wounding Words explicitly deals sonic damage, and Subsonic Strike is merely a multiple-use version of Wounding Words.

And while Countersong doesn't do much to stop an Enigma, the only real threat the Enigma poses (apart from his other Mesmerist abilities) is his stealth, Sneak Attack, and Transfer Affliction. So he's basically just a tricksier Rogue.